How to protect yourselve?

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by lovelyboy, Jan 21, 2012.

  1. lovelyboy

    lovelyboy Member

    Ok...all I will say is that we had a really GREAT week that ended BAD!
    To tired to explain all, used up all my energy to fight back difficult child!
    And all of this because he had the thought stuck in his head that he wants to rent a horror dvd and we said no!!!!
    First the verbal abuse then holding and pushing husband...then kicking husband in his privates....husband wanted to go to the shop to give the old dvd back and difficult child didnt want him to leave!
    Then we managed husband to leave so difficult child started pushing and shuffing me....I am a small person and he is getting bigger and stronger......
    So after he pinched my arms and started pushing harder I went to lock myself and PT in the walk in cupboard, but difficult child started hitting it very hard with the skate board, until I opened....
    He then got it in his head that it will be better if I could be dead....I was so worried, what if one day this thought overwhelmes him and he later only realize what he has done!?
    Luckily he still has enough impulse control to not hit me with whatever he is threatening me with!!!!
    We cant lock him somewhere, because we have no keys for safety measures!
    We were thinking of subscribing to an armed reaponse unit to get a panic button, but its so expensive!
    husband said he will use forse or restrained holding if needed even though he reLizes this is not a healthy opsion....
    Any ideas will be very welcome!
  2. TeDo

    TeDo Guest

    Wow. I am soooo sorry things went so badly. It really sounds like he might need a medication adjustment or something. Can you put a call in to the psychiatrist? This level of violence is a huge red flag that something needs to be done. difficult child 1 did something similar and it turned out to be a strange reaction to a medication he was on. We stopped that medication and within a few days, the violence stopped. No matter what, the psychiatrist needs to be made aware of this SERIOUS issue ASAP!!

  3. buddy

    buddy New Member

    Oh wow lovelyboy, were dodging difficult child's at the same time on different continents? sounds like yours got a little more revved than mine did though. (but violence is never acceptable and clearly we both have issues to work on iwth them, sigh)

    I agree that a good first start is with a psychiatrist. This level of frustration intolerance really needs to be addressed though and I am trying to figure out what that exactly means in our lives. We talk about it. I give him little challenges, waiting for things here and there with prep after going thru what he has to do to keep his mind calm etc.

    We again this morning reviewed what really happened not at my request but he brought it up asking if he should have gotten upset about my knowing about what happened at the shopping mall. I said well, since it had NOTHING to do with you and all, ummm yeah kind of silly to get upset. He said, well I thought you'd be mad. I asked what about someone else having a problem and causing problems at the mall would have to do with you.

    Here is the thing... he just assumed something was going to happen because the Integrated Listening Systems (ILS) called me. I mean, why else to they tell me things??? I finally got it that it was not about what happened there at all. It was just a panic that if someone calls me (which happens at school too) then it means he is in big trouble. The dumb thing is he is almost NEVER in trouble when people call me. but over the years he has always been set off by my being on the phone, assumes we are talking about him, the world revolves around him and he is always dodging bullets in his mind. Must be exhausting for him. So we are going to work on that perception BIG time since it is escalating. Still there is the bigger issue of when he worries not getting too carried away but at least for this issue which is a trigger frequently in many settings we finally have an issue to work on.

    I pray you can identify some of the reasons he got so angry and I doubt it is simply he didn't get his way. It always seems like that on the surface but often it is that they have such a plan in their head about what they want to do that they just fall apart when it doesn't happen. That rigid thinking. could be other things but I find that with Q a lot. Have seen it in many many students too. It is a hard thing to work on. I hope your day improves. Ours today is better (it was friday here when it happened now is Sat and we are ready to go ride the horses).... with only one hiccup but he took a bath and calmed himself. also said yeay the pain is gone... but wouldnt elaborate which is always a problem because any little discomfort always contributes to ugly moments.

    Let us know how he is. I hope you and hug and little one are safe and difficult child is calm today. Cant be fun for him either.
  4. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    I am WORRIED about you. Here I would tell you to call 911 (police emergency number) and have them send someone EVERY TIME that he gets physical. Hitting your husband, esp in the privates, is ASSAULT and DOMESTIC VIOLENCE and husband can press charges against difficult child which would mean he is ARRESTED. In my area they will come and talk to a kid a few times before taking them anywhere unless you insist and won't give in when they try to tell you they "can't". I had to do this when Wiz was 14 because he knew he was bigger and stronger than I was and one of us was going to end up in the hospital or morgue and the other in prison because he was determined to beat his way through me to go attack Jessie. Just wasn't happening and to protect him I insisted he couldn't live iwth us. It was hugely traumatic and NOT medication related. We had done all the medication tweaking possible and he is on the same medications NOW as then and is a totally different person - a delightful one1

    Anyway, I suggest if at ALL possible you call the police when difficult child is at school and ask what your options are. You also need to have both you and husband go to the therapist and learn how to do a therapeutic restraint and get the documentation that you have been trained in this.

    A panic button is a good thing. Here you can get them for about $25 a month on the low end of services and this might be enough but I don't know what is available in your country.

    I know how hard it is to even THINK about calling the police on your child, but something has to happen for him to start using his skills and tools because if he hurts people he is going to end up in some type of jail, even if it is one for kids. I know in our country that we seem to have a lot more kids getting mad and killing people and we must work to stop it. I think part of that MUST be parents having no tolerance for a violent child. I lived iwth one and did the restraints and have a LOT of physical problems that were made much worse after dealing with all the physical altercations with my child. I really really wish we had not just worked with therapy and medications but had brought the cops in earlier to show him how unacceptable it was. He thought it was funny to see me hurting the next day from where he hit me. He also felt very powerful and satisfied. Now he HATES that hte had those attitudes and sees how wrong it was but getting to that point took years and our relationship won't really ever recover.

    You also MUST make your younger child a priority. We learned that when we were not looking or when we were asleep at night that our son was TORTURING Jess. She would be sound asleep and he would go and hurt her badly and threaten to kill us if she told. Sadly we learned that this is NOT uncommon. You MUST make sure that your youngest is NEVER alone in a room with your oldest, not even long enough for you to go potty. Make the youngest come with you and stand in the shower with the curtain pulled so that privacy is respected and everyone is safe. IT sounds extreme and is, but if your son thinks NOTHING of hurting your husband, I am darn sure that he is hurting your other child.

    One thing that really helped us sort of "reset" Wiz was getting ALL the violence out of the house. NO violent tv. Not even DISNEY because those shows have a LOT of violence. We went to the kinder, gentler shows - Winnie the Pooh, Barney, Blues Clues, and yes, Wiz HATED it but he had no choice because if putting it up in our bedroom didn't work we gave them away or got a storage unit miles away to keep them in until he was able to handle them. We cancelled the tv cable service and only had the few channels we could get with-o that, and we locked up the tv if Wiz got up and watched it at night with-o permission. We locked down the computers and we censored his reading material. We limited what he could check out at the school library and we did not give permission for him to watch ANY video or have computer priveleges at school. WHen school ignored us and did a lot of other things that were problems, we pulled him out and homeschooled him. We felt it was our job first to teach him to be a good person and second to educate him. The first year we homeschooled we did little other than go to appts at docs, psychiatrists, tdocs, etc.... We had a LOT to undo. At his age he wouldn't even THINK of asking for a horror dvd because he KNEW that not only would he not get it, I would probably laugh hysterically at the mere thought. If we couldn't let him watch Beauty and the Beast or Lion King, NO WAy was he watching horror movies.

    The media they watch has a HUGE impact on how they think and what they think is OK to do. I firmly believe that we are seeing more violent kids because the kids are seeing so much tv and computer and video game violence. I believed this before I had kids, I fought and still fight to limit my children to age appropriate things - not age in years but age in emotional maturity and what they can handle. My younger two have never been violent except when severely provoked and they get to watch a LOT that Wiz never did. I firmly believe that most video games are too violent for most kids under 10. I HATE what I see a lot of kids playing when I go past computers at the school and at the library and at area internet cafes, etc.... I don't think it is good for them and for the difficult children it is teaching them that it is okay to hurt people. That is NOT something that will help them in life and will not help anyone they are around.

    That is my thing. I would limit what your son is EVER allowed to see for the forseeable future. Not just no horror dvds, but no dvds that are adult in any way. You and husband can watch tv after he is in bed or figure something else out. What you can't do is continue to allow him to hurt you. Calling 911 is what I would advise here. I would probably ask for transport to a psychiatric hospital for a mentally unstable, violent child rather than hiding in the pantry. I would go into the pantry with your youngest to make the call, so that difficult child cannot hurt you, but I wouldn't go in there and hide until he calmed down with-o making that call.

    I hope you have those services available. I know you probably don't normally let him see horror dvds, etc... but if you watch news shows and even kids shows with an eye to if there is violence in them of ANY kind, I think you will be shocked at how much is there. For our family I had to remove ALL of it and it DID help. Even now Wiz says that while he HATED it he did NEED us to do it anyway.

    I hope something I have said helps.
  5. HaoZi

    HaoZi Guest

    *hugs* hon. Lots of good advice above. Mine can get violent, too, but no other kids I have to worry about. I'm still sporting some colorful marks from a week or two ago myself.
  6. mazdamama

    mazdamama New Member

    I agree with are in danger as is your husband and other child. You NEED to get help ASAP. Don't know what your country has but I have had to have my son put in a crisis stabilazation unit 3 times now. Currently he is in a residential treatment center. I have also called the crisis hotline in the middle of the night just to have someone listen and advise me.
    Daniel has alot of anger in him that he is learning why he has it and how to control it. He has been there just over 3 wks now and today was the first day I have been able to visit. He will most likely be there for 4-5 months but I am safer and so is his younger brother. With the help he is getting now at 11 yrs old he will have the chance to have an awesome future and be a great husband and loving father one day.

  7. lovelyboy

    lovelyboy Member

    Thanx for all your support!
    I do feel misrable this morning.....always after such a misrable day like yesterday! And I am not looking forward to son HATES Sundays, because then there is little to do and boardom is a huge trigger point! And its the day mother in law might come over for a he gets less attention from us and she puts to much attention on him!
    Yes....he is not allowed to watch horrors! But he saw this movie at the shop and because the reviews said its not so bad....its about a flood.....he got the idea in his head that he will be watching it! So all hell broke loose when he heard he wont be watching it!
    Lol Buddy.....since my son was liitle he so often get triggered by me talking on the phone! He will get very upset if we had to talk about him! Whay do you do when Q becomes aggressive? My son doesnt becomes very physical towards me but he will keep on walking behind me, not allowing me to go anywhere....he will just follow me everywhere and continue this terrible verbal abuse....while little one absorbes every word! And he will be pinching, scratching my arm, or hitting me on the bum, kicking my for me to get him to STOP I just want to get away or lock me and ghg in a safe place.....BUT I am also worried that if I cant see him he will cut or hurt himself!
    psychiatrist wants to try Risperdal, but he got much more aggressive on that....she is pushing his SSRI up and up, but I dont feel comfortable with just giving a young child more and more medications!!!
    So he wanted to see pics about how juvenile jails look like last night....I showed and explained.......then he just said....doesnt look to bad, I am not afraid! But when he went to bed last night he said he doesnt think he will do good in a jail! I think he got the message......
    I fully agree with taking away all kinds of visual input! He was so great during the week, but then he watched Jaws Friday night.....and BANG! I think we will not be getting ANY more dvd's!!!!!even just for a while.....
    What worries me most: What if he really gets the idea in his head while he is so angry, that it will be better for him if I were dead! Last night while I were struggling up the stairs with my broken foot he waited at the top and jokingly made as if he would push me backwards down the stairs!!!! OMW! At the moment I am more worried about all the what ifs than the actual facts!
  8. mazdamama

    mazdamama New Member

    My Daniel went to the crisis unit for the following 1st...holding a butcher knife to his gut and threatening to push it in. He kept saying he would be better off dead. 2nd....pushing me to the ground and tring to choke me with his little brother screaming in the backgroud "Don't Kill Mommy". I still have a torn meniscus in my knee from that incident. And the 3rd time....he thought our puppy would look cute hung up like a Christmas stocking and hung her by her collar on the doorknob. She died a few hours later from internal bleeding. Another small dog he had died by him rolling over on it in bed. I had given him the benefit of the doubt that he was asleep when this happened but he later said he knew she was under him. Now he is in a safe place getting help. The last issues with the puppy and dog were related to medications making him hear things in his head but he still needed help with the anger issues.

    I have to wonder what is going on in your 4 yr old's head when all this is going on and for the safety of the 4 yr old. These wonderful people here and some of my friends get me the kick in the behind I needed to get the help for my son that he and my family needed.

  9. buddy

    buddy New Member

    I have talked to many many friends with kids with autism that say stuff like that. They really do not inside of themselves understand how it makes us feel. They think it, they say it. It is not a bad thing because they really don't get it, it is all about what might make them feel happy in the moment.

    I work on two fronts, we are working on developing the skills to never get to that point. Plus we avoid triggers while doing that.

    I admit that lately I have told him about my visit to the police station as part of our safety plan and I made it into something it is not. I told him they have papers ready and they are not going to take him to psychiatric hospital (which he liked and was acting up to go there again) but to jail. When it is not a medication issue then you go to jail (OK, I know I lied but until he has more skills, I am talking about safety here and was desperate, talked to psychiatric about it and he said if we see a decrease it is working and if we see an increase it is not.... I see a decrease)

    So, only at those times when he is acting aggressive, INCLUDING the butt pats which build to that... I tell him ok, you can't stay here if you do htat. I always have my phone and he hears the beeps so I dial 933 (but it is 911 of course) and he turns and walks out and says, ok ok ok, I am going to go calm down......

    Of course I dont want it to be that way, and I am not proud of it. My goal is to get to a place where we dont have to do that and since when needed I really did (and would) call 911 it is only a bluff if he stops. I WILL call them if he is so dangerous that I fear for any reason (and sadly, a punch on the arm is not to that level to me, others would disagree but I would be calling daily and truth is for him, with his medical issues jail is not an option). so that part of the bluff will fall apart some day because he would go to a psychiatric hospital. But not the one he was at I think if he is aggressive. If he needs medication adjustment and needs to go in planned, then fine, we will go to the nice one.

    No easy answers. It is not perfect, but in an emergency the 911 threat works for me for now.....
  10. Wiped Out

    Wiped Out Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Lovelyboy-Others have given good advice; I'm sending some soft, understanding hugs.
  11. HaoZi

    HaoZi Guest

    Maybe it's time to try a different class of medication altogether. Obviously the current regimen isn't working, and you can only stuff so much into them.
  12. buddy

    buddy New Member

    oh, lovelyboy....I forgot.... Q was the same with risperdal... and was on an SSRI (prozac) and after the psychiatric hospital we decided to go off of it and since then the number of incidents has gone down drastically. Even at school. I did get a call last week but no calls to take him home! He has only been off of it since the beginning of January. TeDo's son had to go off of one too, caused aggression after being on it for a while, just like with Q...he had been on it for a while too...

    Not the total answer for us but it was clearly a part of it.

    The Clonidine is what helps us with aggression the most. Every kid is different though.
  13. lovelyboy

    lovelyboy Member

    We are seing the psychiatrist on the 6 of Febr. But what worries me is that after our last session where I was questioning everything, she might get irritated with me not wanting to continue with the medications! I dont know, maybe I must just give her the facts....but what if she just wants to increase it and even add something like an antipsychotic......? I truely feel worried about pumping more medications in him without real effect......What is so truely strange to me is the swings......He was really a great kid during the last week!!!!Even better than a NT kid......but like hubby said he was then so busy with school, routine and nice new extra murals.....then weekend came....boardom kicked in and meltdowns, aggression, seeking fights.....And then after we were out to lunch me and hubby went to rest a bit this afternoon and I heard him being so polite and nice with little brother....suddenly he is so relaxed, obedient, exct. Its mindboggling how the same child can so easily change from perfect to threatening to nice again!!!!! This just makes me feel it MUST be neurological......I still get the feeling we are missing something!!!!! Its so frustrating!!!!!!But I am just glad we are in a better space now......:)
  14. buddy

    buddy New Member

    my gut would say the same. If she is not listening do you have the option to switch docs? I dont know your medical system there.

    Huge clue though that husband is on to... maybe he does need that rigid structure and the choices need to be limited.
  15. lovelyboy

    lovelyboy Member

    Yes we can switch....the problem is to get a good psychiatrist.....and to get some one that specializes in children!
    Hubby said....we need to put his expectations clear and go through what kiddo can expect during the weekend, so that he doesnt put his mind on unrealistic expectations! I just sms my one friend who is a social worker and asked her if she knows of some one who specializes in Reactive Attachment Disorder (RAD)....I still have strong feelings about this! My son sometimes seems as if he is hurting so badly inside and he will also say he doesnt feel part of the family and this is the times all this terrible stuff also comes out of his mouth!
  16. buddy

    buddy New Member

    HUGS, You know I am right there with ya....
  17. lovelyboy

    lovelyboy Member

  18. Steely

    Steely Active Member

    Did your foot get broken in the tangle with you and difficult child?
    It certainly sounds like he needs a mood stabilizer medication since he is experiencing such mood swings. Ssri's can make things worse. hopefully your psychiatrist can grasp this and get him on a better regimen, soon. Mood stabs are different than medications like risperdal which is an anti-psychotic. Has your psychiatrist suggested any of these?
  19. lovelyboy

    lovelyboy Member

    LOL Steely, thank goodness NO! Luckily we are not there yet!!!! Bless his soul!
    I broke my foot by reeding the iPad while walking down the stairs!
    I agree re medications! I'm going to give him this week until we see the doctor next week.....I want to see if he is still so agitated with the increased medications! I know when I was using Ciprelex that I wanted to climb the walls!