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runawaybunny
Guest
Received this Sunday from a producer at Huffington Post. PM me for her her email.
Huffington Post looking for parents with personal experience with violent children
DDD
Well-Known Member
I read the first contributor's written offering. In the back of my mind I keep thinking that the "shooter", like my difficult child#2 was not violent. Likely, however, the Mom feared that all the solitude and isolation might likely lead to violence at some point. I just keep replaying his peers saying "he kept to himself and didn't seem to want friends". So sad.
I hope the HP seizes the opportunity to present the wide range of children needing help. DDD
I hope the HP seizes the opportunity to present the wide range of children needing help. DDD
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runawaybunny
Guest
Here is the webcast. Ross Greene is one of the participants
<iframe src="http://embed.live.huffingtonpost.com/HPLEmbedPlayer/?segmentId=50cdd44c78c90a45bc00015e" width="480" height="270" frameBorder="0" scrollable="no"></iframe>
<iframe src="http://embed.live.huffingtonpost.com/HPLEmbedPlayer/?segmentId=50cdd44c78c90a45bc00015e" width="480" height="270" frameBorder="0" scrollable="no"></iframe>
Thank you for posting this, it was very interesting. Those moms were very brave to tell their stories, and very similar to my story, with the tantrums that lasted hours and the not fitting in and the impulsiveness. A couple things struck me including the fact that all these moms expressed the fact that they did get help for their child but the professionals did not know how to help and in some cases made it worse. I agree with that. We only found one therapist that did any good and she was one who taught difficult child how to do yoga and calm herself down and also look at her behavior and try to find other ways in dealing with her disappointments and frustrations.
The other thing that really struck me was the fact that at least two of these moms sent their child to a boarding school or residential treatment centers for an extended period of time. That seems to be the one thing that helped their child in learning skills to manage their behavior. I can't help but think that option is not available to most parents because of the cost. Perhaps what needs to be done is to make this option available through our health care system if the child is diagnosed properly.
I thought Dr. Greene was right on when he said that professionals need to learn a different way of dealing with these children and do a better job identifying them. I knew very early on that my difficult child needed help, just as these moms did, but the professionals had no idea what to do.
I hope these discussions continue in our society so that real progress can be made.
The other thing that really struck me was the fact that at least two of these moms sent their child to a boarding school or residential treatment centers for an extended period of time. That seems to be the one thing that helped their child in learning skills to manage their behavior. I can't help but think that option is not available to most parents because of the cost. Perhaps what needs to be done is to make this option available through our health care system if the child is diagnosed properly.
I thought Dr. Greene was right on when he said that professionals need to learn a different way of dealing with these children and do a better job identifying them. I knew very early on that my difficult child needed help, just as these moms did, but the professionals had no idea what to do.
I hope these discussions continue in our society so that real progress can be made.
StressedM0mma
Active Member
I have not been able to watch the webcast yet, but I will agree with what Nancy has said. I see this with my difficult child. She does not know how to handle stressors, and the therapists and dr.s we have seen, have not helped. When she was at the psychiatric hospital, there was one aide there that was wonderful. She really "got" difficult child, and would call her on her behavior and make her own it, and help her find a solution. I said then that I would have loved to have brought her home to help us. And, we actively searched for a Residential Treatment Center (RTC) for difficult child, and when we consulted with her therapist, she laughed in our face! Literally. She said our county had no money, and they would not help us at all, and there would be no way we would be able to afford to sent difficult child. Nothing like beating down a mother who is barely hanging on to hope. And insurance is of no help. It is time for things to change. It is sad. I think my difficult child could grow and blossom with the constant guidance of an Residential Treatment Center (RTC), but there is no way she will ever be able to get into one.
Tiapet
Old Hand
Nancy I agree with you. Often times I've found that they have made it worse. How have they made it worse? Well in a few ways (and this list is not exhaustive by any means):
Not truly listening to me, the parent, as to what really was going on and what I observed and sometimes not even their own staff if it was a wrap around services agency (reports inaccurately written too that reflected misinformation they lead them in wrong directions- dead time/delays in proper treatment)
Giving wrong medication due to the above or medication that was contraindicated for a particular disorder
Staff that were not properly trained to handle the children's issues or were too new/ had their own ideas/ had never dealt with situations like this or don't have children of their own and could not identify with "parents" as a whole
In some cases, staff that first looked at "the parent was to blame" with no regard that the child actually had issues, REAL issues!
In consistency from one worker to another or the simple LACK of keeping a single worker any length of time to be beneficial (high turn over rate)
Many more.....
As for residential or boarding schools, you are exactly right on insurance and costs. Many families can't afford it and insurances won't cover it or if they do only for a very limited time and then toss them out too soon and certainly not with enough discharge support or services if any in some cases. Not to mention, the choice to do so comes with it it's own inherent potential risks/problems. The first one is finding the right one, finding one that is "safe" (meaning is quality), worrying about what "might" happen to their child while in their or what their own child might do to another (it can happen), worrying about what else the child might "pick up and learn" additionally to add to their arsenal of behaviors that they didn't have before they went in (happens a lot), etc.
I wish there was some sort of consistency/standard across the board that everyone MUST adhere to everywhere (much like schools - though they too aren't perfect in that) from the beginning to the end in mental health treatment. I guess we can dream for a perfect world. I hope and wish to some day get close or closer to it for the sake of our kids....and the world at large!
Not truly listening to me, the parent, as to what really was going on and what I observed and sometimes not even their own staff if it was a wrap around services agency (reports inaccurately written too that reflected misinformation they lead them in wrong directions- dead time/delays in proper treatment)
Giving wrong medication due to the above or medication that was contraindicated for a particular disorder
Staff that were not properly trained to handle the children's issues or were too new/ had their own ideas/ had never dealt with situations like this or don't have children of their own and could not identify with "parents" as a whole
In some cases, staff that first looked at "the parent was to blame" with no regard that the child actually had issues, REAL issues!
In consistency from one worker to another or the simple LACK of keeping a single worker any length of time to be beneficial (high turn over rate)
Many more.....
As for residential or boarding schools, you are exactly right on insurance and costs. Many families can't afford it and insurances won't cover it or if they do only for a very limited time and then toss them out too soon and certainly not with enough discharge support or services if any in some cases. Not to mention, the choice to do so comes with it it's own inherent potential risks/problems. The first one is finding the right one, finding one that is "safe" (meaning is quality), worrying about what "might" happen to their child while in their or what their own child might do to another (it can happen), worrying about what else the child might "pick up and learn" additionally to add to their arsenal of behaviors that they didn't have before they went in (happens a lot), etc.
I wish there was some sort of consistency/standard across the board that everyone MUST adhere to everywhere (much like schools - though they too aren't perfect in that) from the beginning to the end in mental health treatment. I guess we can dream for a perfect world. I hope and wish to some day get close or closer to it for the sake of our kids....and the world at large!
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runawaybunny
Guest
Pressing the F5 key will reload a fresh copy of the page. That might work.
Mattsmom277
Active Member
I remember when I finally got my (now former) difficult child in to see a pediatrician that is the local acting psychiatrist. Now he isn't a psychiatrist at all. But like many communities, they shuttle challenging and mentally ill children to a pediatrician that is labelled as working with this demographic of children. Not exactly inspiring hope from the onset, for the record. It was exhaustive getting just the referral. It was a bunch of wasted time, mounting to close to two years, of first having to be blamed as the parent, then exhaust all the fruitless and useless standard go to, easy out, type sticker charts, rewards, time outs, basket hold lessons, methods that rarely work for challenging children. Then the numerous school meetings, evaluations, doctor visits, counselors, wasted time in parenting classes being told to just do xyz. Then finally the all hyped "referral" to this pediatrician. difficult child was so out of control at that point, school was a nightmare, my home was a nightmare, my life was all consumed with difficult child issues and I watched my son increasingly feel incapable, a failure, a freak, and his issues obviously spiraled into worse events due to his exposure to one failed useless attempt at a new approach after another.
I walked in to the appointment with difficult child, after having to fill out a multi page form about behaviors. All yes/no type answers, which often is not helpful because some issues just aren't that cut and dry. This yokel spoke to us both for about a half hour. He ignored the sullen, angry, defiant ball of rage that was difficult child, and asked about the same methods I'd fruitlessly tried at recommendation of numerous "professionals". He acted like I was somehow exaggerating difficult child's behaviors, or the lack of response to the "methods" tried. Questioned how much "effort" and "perserverance" I had actually approached these methods with. Lovely. More parental blame, as I began to tear up and get that ever present sinking feeling that once again, no help was on the off'ing. This idiot then barked, literally barked, at me: so what, you want me to write a script, drug your kid, and make this all better? Well holy criminey I about turned difficult child myself, because I was at my wits end, begging the so called regional specialist (the ONLY one!!!) for HELP because I was desperate and had banged on every door and tried every thing suggested and my son was hurting and I was terrified for his future. I babbled some response about NO, I wasn't there begging for medication. I was OPEN to medication if he felt there was one that could help my son. I was also open to any NEW suggestion, therapy, approach, that might help my son, help me, help my family, help him be able to access proper education, help him functin, help his future. He honest to goodness snapped so you ARE just looking for medications. WHAT??? That was NOT what I said. I remember crying at that point, I was so defeated. He then said, perhaps the issue here isn't a normal active boy, but a mother with obviously too many personal issues herself to parent, seeing as you are crying in the office of the professional you want to help your son. And he promptly offered a referal for ME to get mental health support. Even more terrifying was this yokel had a intern placed with him. A young man finishing medication school, shadowing and learning from this guy. I only prayed that the young man was not going into child psychiatry, or at least wasn't using this guys influence to impact his approach to treating childhood mental health issues. Not only was this said in front of that medication student, it was said in front of my difficult child!!! So I left with literally the last resort no longer accessible to me or difficult child, had a difficult child who heard this was all mom's fault and doing and that "I" was the problem, that he was just an active normally functioning boy. Then a report was sent to my family doctor, who in term provided it to the school and to difficult child's therapist and support network. And then, there was no avenue of help untainted by this yokel.
I have learned since that this NOT uncommon. I did not experience anything unique in my efforts to get resources and help for my difficult child. Until this type of treatment to parents seeking help for their children changes, it is a battle that rarely a parent can fight in providing helpful services for their children. It is a shameful and disgraceful state of affairs, given this is 2012 and we have the insight now more than ever into the needs of mentally ill persons, children and otherwise. I have a very similar story actually in trying for years to get help for my mother.
Disgraceful is nowhere near the word needed to describe the state of mental health services. Or the lack of them. Enter in parents of violent or potentially violent children, and my heart bleeds for those families and those children. We can do better. We must do better. I don't have the solution, but I do know it has to begin by eliminating the blame the parent game, and providing all encompassing services regardless of insurance or finances, to families reaching out for help. I'm so sick of this discussion coming up after a tragedy such as CT, only to have it washed again under the service of public awareness when newer news trumps these horrible stories. I'm sick of politics, symantics, cop outs, getting in the way of meaningful dialogue and systematic change for the better.
Rant over. I'm just so discouraged to see public will for change swell, only to predict that it will wane again quickly as it always does. Our children deserve better. Society needs to demand better for them. Where is the village raising children concept gone???
I walked in to the appointment with difficult child, after having to fill out a multi page form about behaviors. All yes/no type answers, which often is not helpful because some issues just aren't that cut and dry. This yokel spoke to us both for about a half hour. He ignored the sullen, angry, defiant ball of rage that was difficult child, and asked about the same methods I'd fruitlessly tried at recommendation of numerous "professionals". He acted like I was somehow exaggerating difficult child's behaviors, or the lack of response to the "methods" tried. Questioned how much "effort" and "perserverance" I had actually approached these methods with. Lovely. More parental blame, as I began to tear up and get that ever present sinking feeling that once again, no help was on the off'ing. This idiot then barked, literally barked, at me: so what, you want me to write a script, drug your kid, and make this all better? Well holy criminey I about turned difficult child myself, because I was at my wits end, begging the so called regional specialist (the ONLY one!!!) for HELP because I was desperate and had banged on every door and tried every thing suggested and my son was hurting and I was terrified for his future. I babbled some response about NO, I wasn't there begging for medication. I was OPEN to medication if he felt there was one that could help my son. I was also open to any NEW suggestion, therapy, approach, that might help my son, help me, help my family, help him be able to access proper education, help him functin, help his future. He honest to goodness snapped so you ARE just looking for medications. WHAT??? That was NOT what I said. I remember crying at that point, I was so defeated. He then said, perhaps the issue here isn't a normal active boy, but a mother with obviously too many personal issues herself to parent, seeing as you are crying in the office of the professional you want to help your son. And he promptly offered a referal for ME to get mental health support. Even more terrifying was this yokel had a intern placed with him. A young man finishing medication school, shadowing and learning from this guy. I only prayed that the young man was not going into child psychiatry, or at least wasn't using this guys influence to impact his approach to treating childhood mental health issues. Not only was this said in front of that medication student, it was said in front of my difficult child!!! So I left with literally the last resort no longer accessible to me or difficult child, had a difficult child who heard this was all mom's fault and doing and that "I" was the problem, that he was just an active normally functioning boy. Then a report was sent to my family doctor, who in term provided it to the school and to difficult child's therapist and support network. And then, there was no avenue of help untainted by this yokel.
I have learned since that this NOT uncommon. I did not experience anything unique in my efforts to get resources and help for my difficult child. Until this type of treatment to parents seeking help for their children changes, it is a battle that rarely a parent can fight in providing helpful services for their children. It is a shameful and disgraceful state of affairs, given this is 2012 and we have the insight now more than ever into the needs of mentally ill persons, children and otherwise. I have a very similar story actually in trying for years to get help for my mother.
Disgraceful is nowhere near the word needed to describe the state of mental health services. Or the lack of them. Enter in parents of violent or potentially violent children, and my heart bleeds for those families and those children. We can do better. We must do better. I don't have the solution, but I do know it has to begin by eliminating the blame the parent game, and providing all encompassing services regardless of insurance or finances, to families reaching out for help. I'm so sick of this discussion coming up after a tragedy such as CT, only to have it washed again under the service of public awareness when newer news trumps these horrible stories. I'm sick of politics, symantics, cop outs, getting in the way of meaningful dialogue and systematic change for the better.
Rant over. I'm just so discouraged to see public will for change swell, only to predict that it will wane again quickly as it always does. Our children deserve better. Society needs to demand better for them. Where is the village raising children concept gone???
I hear you mattsmom and had similar experiences with teams of professionals as well. I was even told there was nothing wrong with my difficult child but that our temperments didn't fit well together.
I am encouraged by the discussions that are now going on. I do hold out some hope that things will change, parents will be taken more seriously, new treatments will be developed. At least it's a starting point but what a tragic one.
I am encouraged by the discussions that are now going on. I do hold out some hope that things will change, parents will be taken more seriously, new treatments will be developed. At least it's a starting point but what a tragic one.
DammitJanet
Well-Known Member
You know what...who even cares if it is the parents fault? I know a boy who was about 10 years young than Jamie who had a very bad home life. The mom was a drug addict and lived down the road from us. All the older siblings started out smoking pot and dropped out of school but before that they were selling pot and pills in the local hs. They ran wild. This little boy had some form of CP I believe but he also had ADHD. Most likely the older ones could have been labeled with something.
I heard not too long ago that this little boy who isnt so little anymore...guess he is around 18 now, was stabbed while trying to deliver drugs for his mom. He never had a chance in life because of how he grew up. No one stepped in to attempt to help him.
I heard not too long ago that this little boy who isnt so little anymore...guess he is around 18 now, was stabbed while trying to deliver drugs for his mom. He never had a chance in life because of how he grew up. No one stepped in to attempt to help him.
BusynMember
Well-Known Member
Nobody helped my crazy adopted son. In fact, nobody even thought anything was wrong with him until he admitted he'd killed our dogs and sexually abused the two younger kids. THEN they finally had that lightbulb go off. How much help can we get if the kids can fool the professionals?
DammitJanet
Well-Known Member
Well I know for a fact that things have gone downhill here in NC. They have closed down a lot of the group homes due to budget cuts and something called "community level services". That's double talk for "we dont want to spend the money on taking care of your kid in out of home placements so we will shuffle them all back to their home settings and let someone else deal with it".
There used to be either 4 or 5 levels of residential placements. I think 1 was simply going to mental health for therapy, 2 was having an aide, 3 was at a group home that was community based but was like a home and the child went to a local school, 4 was a locked facility with the school on campus and 5 may have been juvenile detention. Cory spent most of his time as a teen running between levels 2-3 and finally ended up in 4. I begged them to start with 4 but you had to climb the ladder. His case manager had to keep presenting his case before some panel in order to attempt to get him placements.
Now I have seen the paperwork where they have been sending all the kids home who were in these level 3 group homes back into community support. The level 4 locked facility Cory was in has been closed and is now being leased to the City of Raleigh for some sort of housing I believe. It was the state mental health hospital and is straight across the street from the prison. Who wants to live there? LOL I mean it was a nice place for a hospital. Lush green lawns and it had several buildings....one for young kids, elderly, adults, forensics, teens, and then the Residential Treatment Center (RTC) which had a pool, school and basketball court. But why close it? We needed it.
There used to be either 4 or 5 levels of residential placements. I think 1 was simply going to mental health for therapy, 2 was having an aide, 3 was at a group home that was community based but was like a home and the child went to a local school, 4 was a locked facility with the school on campus and 5 may have been juvenile detention. Cory spent most of his time as a teen running between levels 2-3 and finally ended up in 4. I begged them to start with 4 but you had to climb the ladder. His case manager had to keep presenting his case before some panel in order to attempt to get him placements.
Now I have seen the paperwork where they have been sending all the kids home who were in these level 3 group homes back into community support. The level 4 locked facility Cory was in has been closed and is now being leased to the City of Raleigh for some sort of housing I believe. It was the state mental health hospital and is straight across the street from the prison. Who wants to live there? LOL I mean it was a nice place for a hospital. Lush green lawns and it had several buildings....one for young kids, elderly, adults, forensics, teens, and then the Residential Treatment Center (RTC) which had a pool, school and basketball court. But why close it? We needed it.
