husband and I - Long Long Vent
- Thread starter witzend
- Start date
Star*
call 911........call 911
I've never been a beast of onus......naw - that Stones song would have bombed.
(now have dumb tune in my head) I can see Jaggar - du du du-du du du-du duuuuuu.
Some things worth having are rarely easy. I read this post earlier and then thought I'm going to think about this and my remarks. My sister snapped one time that since I had been married and divorced I was sure quick to give advice suggesting breakup or divorce. Without thinking I snapped back that "No, I wasn't pro-divorce, I'm pro-health."
When I was younger I used to hear about women like Zsa-Zsa Gabor who had been married then I think 6 times. As a child with parents who were married 47 years until my father's death I thought irregardless of what came down the pike - you worked it out. You worked it out because of the kids, because of your promise to God in your vows, because of your love for that person. It used to amaze me when you'd hear in the news someone had gotten divorced for a 4th time or married for a 7th. After my 1st marriage and counseling I thought about Zsa Zsa and Liz Taylor and thougth - I guess when their line got crossed they left. I dont 'think you can be happy like that - not truly happy. But it does say something when you can walk away from those who make you so unhappy you want change more than them.
Then I got married to a man who was charming. A rare find in the 80's. And took my ideals of marriage into my own marriage and hung in for 13 years despite anything and everything. I begged him literally on my knees to go to counseling. I was so sure I didn't want to loose my marriage I would have and did do anything to save it. But that was the point - I was willing, I would have - there was no HIM in any of that at all. It was me.
I had started going to counseling 2 years before we broke up. I learned a lot during that time about manipulation, working with someone, communicating with someone and living with someone. Moreover I learned about how not to be manipulated, effective communication, and how not to be taken advantage of. Did I love him? Yes. Was I in love with him? Not after 10 years. He wanted to renew our vows and i was literally HORRIFIED. But after it all I had a better understanding of why some women have multiple marriages. I wanted out at that point.
I think marriages are a little like difficult child's. I mean in the way that they operate. They are rarely perfect. They take a tremendous amount of your life, energy, patience and love. They take discipline, ability to think outside the box, and to find a way to put yourself first without doing irreparable damage to the difficult child, yet all the while moving forwards towards a goal.
At work - we have a goal (making it to the next level or going home in some cases), we have rewards (our checks) and we have consequences (pay cuts, termination).
Some of us adore going to work and have a fear of coming home. I think those people either are adreneline junkies or have a bad home life. In your case Witz - he's a junkie.
I think he plays WW because it's hyper like the environment at work. But there is no consequence. Or in his mind = there should not be a consequence. He's worked, he's home, and now he is going to play. In other words he's done his work, and now this is his reward.
So maybe instead of trying to fix a not broken you, or thinking that his inability MUST BE something that has to do with you - you both should concentrate on the limbo he's in when he isn't at work. It could be as simple as him understanding that he has 2 jobs one is (over there) and the other STARTS when he's done with the home-job. I think there is something that just gets lost for him in the decompression time from work end to home. It could be because the stress of his job is outrageous. Then when he comes home his brain has already gone to Cabo - and his body is being told - BUT YOU NEED TO DO THIS. Playing the game gets him out of work mode, but keeps the energy level up.
Maybe make the remodeling like a video game - except you are the reward and in order to get to the "next level" he has to get the window put in. Heck -I dunno buy a whip today and some whipped cream tomorrow????
!
I wish I had some real answers for you but I can tell you that eventually in our relationship I had to find a way to deal with DF not being able to do things at my pace and BE okay with it.
Hugs
Star
(now have dumb tune in my head) I can see Jaggar - du du du-du du du-du duuuuuu.
Some things worth having are rarely easy. I read this post earlier and then thought I'm going to think about this and my remarks. My sister snapped one time that since I had been married and divorced I was sure quick to give advice suggesting breakup or divorce. Without thinking I snapped back that "No, I wasn't pro-divorce, I'm pro-health."
When I was younger I used to hear about women like Zsa-Zsa Gabor who had been married then I think 6 times. As a child with parents who were married 47 years until my father's death I thought irregardless of what came down the pike - you worked it out. You worked it out because of the kids, because of your promise to God in your vows, because of your love for that person. It used to amaze me when you'd hear in the news someone had gotten divorced for a 4th time or married for a 7th. After my 1st marriage and counseling I thought about Zsa Zsa and Liz Taylor and thougth - I guess when their line got crossed they left. I dont 'think you can be happy like that - not truly happy. But it does say something when you can walk away from those who make you so unhappy you want change more than them.
Then I got married to a man who was charming. A rare find in the 80's. And took my ideals of marriage into my own marriage and hung in for 13 years despite anything and everything. I begged him literally on my knees to go to counseling. I was so sure I didn't want to loose my marriage I would have and did do anything to save it. But that was the point - I was willing, I would have - there was no HIM in any of that at all. It was me.
I had started going to counseling 2 years before we broke up. I learned a lot during that time about manipulation, working with someone, communicating with someone and living with someone. Moreover I learned about how not to be manipulated, effective communication, and how not to be taken advantage of. Did I love him? Yes. Was I in love with him? Not after 10 years. He wanted to renew our vows and i was literally HORRIFIED. But after it all I had a better understanding of why some women have multiple marriages. I wanted out at that point.
I think marriages are a little like difficult child's. I mean in the way that they operate. They are rarely perfect. They take a tremendous amount of your life, energy, patience and love. They take discipline, ability to think outside the box, and to find a way to put yourself first without doing irreparable damage to the difficult child, yet all the while moving forwards towards a goal.
At work - we have a goal (making it to the next level or going home in some cases), we have rewards (our checks) and we have consequences (pay cuts, termination).
Some of us adore going to work and have a fear of coming home. I think those people either are adreneline junkies or have a bad home life. In your case Witz - he's a junkie.
I think he plays WW because it's hyper like the environment at work. But there is no consequence. Or in his mind = there should not be a consequence. He's worked, he's home, and now he is going to play. In other words he's done his work, and now this is his reward.
So maybe instead of trying to fix a not broken you, or thinking that his inability MUST BE something that has to do with you - you both should concentrate on the limbo he's in when he isn't at work. It could be as simple as him understanding that he has 2 jobs one is (over there) and the other STARTS when he's done with the home-job. I think there is something that just gets lost for him in the decompression time from work end to home. It could be because the stress of his job is outrageous. Then when he comes home his brain has already gone to Cabo - and his body is being told - BUT YOU NEED TO DO THIS. Playing the game gets him out of work mode, but keeps the energy level up.
Maybe make the remodeling like a video game - except you are the reward and in order to get to the "next level" he has to get the window put in. Heck -I dunno buy a whip today and some whipped cream tomorrow????
! I wish I had some real answers for you but I can tell you that eventually in our relationship I had to find a way to deal with DF not being able to do things at my pace and BE okay with it.
Hugs
Star
Shari
IsItFridayYet?
Hey, Witz. A thought. There's a Dr Phil book my mom gave me a few years back. Several years, actually. He has another one called "Relationship Rescue" but that's not the one I'm thinking of...it was one of his first ones.
***
I'm not a big Dr Phil fan, but it helped me sort things out with my then h. I'll find the title if you're interested...it focused only on yourself...getting it straight with yourself who and what you are, what boundaries you have, teaching you that your actions and reactions in turn teach others how they can and can not treat you. Heck, I own a copy. I'll send it to you if you want.
***
I'm not a big Dr Phil fan, but it helped me sort things out with my then h. I'll find the title if you're interested...it focused only on yourself...getting it straight with yourself who and what you are, what boundaries you have, teaching you that your actions and reactions in turn teach others how they can and can not treat you. Heck, I own a copy. I'll send it to you if you want.
witzend
Well-Known Member
We've been trying that in therapy for years now. It has been his MO since childhood. Overachieving at school, locking himself inside of himself at home. He was never a super popular guy with the kids, but very likable. But his grades were good enough to get a free ride to Princeton. Where he was asked to leave his Junior year because he was more busy playing Dungeons and Dragons than studying.
witzend
Well-Known Member
Yes, please do give me the title when you think of it. I'm very interested in looking at my own boundaries and not setting myself up for failure.
witzend
Well-Known Member
Yep. Now you know why it was so hard to control M with the computer games. husband didn't get it at all.
Marguerite
Active Member
A few thoughts, Witz.
What would happen if you totally stepped back - for example, over the stuff not all getting delivered? You said, it's something small, you will pick it up yourself at a later date. The thing is, he knows this. He knows you will do this, you will rescue things, you will pick up the pieces. And knowing this, he doesn't need to try to get it right. But if you left it entirely up to him, he would HAVE to make sure that part got collected one way or another. He had the initial responsibility, frankly he should have turned around and gone back to get it. But you stepped in and said (probably with exasperation," Oh, forget it! I'll go and get it when I can!"
You're the comfortable pair of shoes he puts on when he kicks off his more expensive image-makers when he gets home from work. At home, he can relax and be himself. At work he's constantly trying to please everybody by going so much further. Or so he tells you. But is it possible he is running around at work quickly filling in the gaps because he forgot something, left something out, and then goes back and fixes it and does a bit more as well while he's there? You're not there at work to pick up the pieces for him, so he HAS to function there. And maybe he still gets it wrong sometimes.
That incident in the store with the list - he sounded like a bloke trying to prove "I'm the man" to another bloke, and then trying to show that he's being pushed around all the time by a wife who just doesn't understand the way blokes think. It reminded me of the time when husband had been complaining for some time of being tired and his knee hurting badly. I finally said, "Don't whine about it, go se the doctor."
So he said, "Sure, make an appointment for me, will you?"
So I did. And when we got in to see the doctor and the doctor said, "What can I do for you?" husband just said, "I don't know, really. SHE made me come see you."
He has since told me that when we got in to see the doctor he had genuinely forgotten why we'd made the appointment, his symptoms seemed so vague and he just didn't know what to say.
Boy, did I give him the rounds of the kitchen over that one! I said, "Why did you say that, making it look like I was the overanxious nagging wife, when you were the one who asked me to make the appointment?" I told him I would never make another appointment on his behalf.
husband was contrite, and he's never done it since.
I guess what I'm saying - despite all your talking things over, he's just not switched on. I suspect he's perfected the art of mentally playing Warcraft while you're talking, and still able to give you the automatic answers to indicate he's paying attention when he really isn't. Then he gets to where he's supposed to be, he's busy playing the Man of the House, but really can't remember what you agreed on. Of course, he can't let other blokes see him as nitpicky and fussy like you (the way he probably sees it), a bloke has to be laid back and casual with other blokes, a sort of, "Yeah, I'm an expert, I do this all the time, I can re-grout tiles in my sleep." So of course he won't check the order on the truck because he can't inconvenience other people (especially other blokes). Your husband is a good bloke, who's always ready to help other people. YOU understand him, you can pick up the pieces - you always do, anyway - but other people can't be inconvenienced simply because you asked him to check the list. They have just assured him it's all there; to check himself would be to show lack of faith in what they have just said, which would be bad-mannered (and, I suspect, he feels less confident than he tries to appear). Line of least resistance = "let's not double-check, let's just go with the flow and rely on other people to get it right."
I have a garden project, the physical stuff of which I've had to leave with husband. It's been a few years already, but I can wait. He's found a few problems along the way and every so often I ask what he needs to complete the next step. And every so often, he brings something home to help him complete the next step. It's probably going to take a few more years, but I think it will get there. If I desperately needed it done faster, rather than nag him to do it, I'd hire someone else to do the job. But I would let husband know that I had someone booked in to do it on a certain date - that would give him time to get in and do it first, and save us the money. The alternative - husband could heave a big sigh of relief that I'd hired someone to do the job and say, "Whew! I really don't feel confident enough/energetic enough to do it, I am tired and will be happy to pay someone else to do the job, they will probably do it faster & better than I could have, anyway."
How much does your husband earn per hour? How many hours of his time is spent doing things which you could pay someone else to do? Maybe instead of getting husband to do the jobs, send husband out do put in longer hours at work (he seems to be good at it) so you can pay someone else to do what husband is NOT good at.
Whichever way you go, I think you need to head in the direction of not relying on husband to do the home handyman stuff. But do make sure he is footing the bill.
Also, men often are not good at talking, or being asked to talk (or listen). Men think in straight lines. They go from point A to Point B without deviating. Women, on the other hand, often need to deviate, to detour, to check out everything else along the way to make sure nothing has been forgotten. And some men especially just can't understand this and resent being asked to try. If he is like this, then he will be 'zoning out' when you try to talk to him about fine details.
You can't change him, if he's like this. You are right. You would need to change yourself, and the way you talk to him about things.
Not easy, for either of you.
Marg
What would happen if you totally stepped back - for example, over the stuff not all getting delivered? You said, it's something small, you will pick it up yourself at a later date. The thing is, he knows this. He knows you will do this, you will rescue things, you will pick up the pieces. And knowing this, he doesn't need to try to get it right. But if you left it entirely up to him, he would HAVE to make sure that part got collected one way or another. He had the initial responsibility, frankly he should have turned around and gone back to get it. But you stepped in and said (probably with exasperation," Oh, forget it! I'll go and get it when I can!"
You're the comfortable pair of shoes he puts on when he kicks off his more expensive image-makers when he gets home from work. At home, he can relax and be himself. At work he's constantly trying to please everybody by going so much further. Or so he tells you. But is it possible he is running around at work quickly filling in the gaps because he forgot something, left something out, and then goes back and fixes it and does a bit more as well while he's there? You're not there at work to pick up the pieces for him, so he HAS to function there. And maybe he still gets it wrong sometimes.
That incident in the store with the list - he sounded like a bloke trying to prove "I'm the man" to another bloke, and then trying to show that he's being pushed around all the time by a wife who just doesn't understand the way blokes think. It reminded me of the time when husband had been complaining for some time of being tired and his knee hurting badly. I finally said, "Don't whine about it, go se the doctor."
So he said, "Sure, make an appointment for me, will you?"
So I did. And when we got in to see the doctor and the doctor said, "What can I do for you?" husband just said, "I don't know, really. SHE made me come see you."
He has since told me that when we got in to see the doctor he had genuinely forgotten why we'd made the appointment, his symptoms seemed so vague and he just didn't know what to say.
Boy, did I give him the rounds of the kitchen over that one! I said, "Why did you say that, making it look like I was the overanxious nagging wife, when you were the one who asked me to make the appointment?" I told him I would never make another appointment on his behalf.
husband was contrite, and he's never done it since.
I guess what I'm saying - despite all your talking things over, he's just not switched on. I suspect he's perfected the art of mentally playing Warcraft while you're talking, and still able to give you the automatic answers to indicate he's paying attention when he really isn't. Then he gets to where he's supposed to be, he's busy playing the Man of the House, but really can't remember what you agreed on. Of course, he can't let other blokes see him as nitpicky and fussy like you (the way he probably sees it), a bloke has to be laid back and casual with other blokes, a sort of, "Yeah, I'm an expert, I do this all the time, I can re-grout tiles in my sleep." So of course he won't check the order on the truck because he can't inconvenience other people (especially other blokes). Your husband is a good bloke, who's always ready to help other people. YOU understand him, you can pick up the pieces - you always do, anyway - but other people can't be inconvenienced simply because you asked him to check the list. They have just assured him it's all there; to check himself would be to show lack of faith in what they have just said, which would be bad-mannered (and, I suspect, he feels less confident than he tries to appear). Line of least resistance = "let's not double-check, let's just go with the flow and rely on other people to get it right."
I have a garden project, the physical stuff of which I've had to leave with husband. It's been a few years already, but I can wait. He's found a few problems along the way and every so often I ask what he needs to complete the next step. And every so often, he brings something home to help him complete the next step. It's probably going to take a few more years, but I think it will get there. If I desperately needed it done faster, rather than nag him to do it, I'd hire someone else to do the job. But I would let husband know that I had someone booked in to do it on a certain date - that would give him time to get in and do it first, and save us the money. The alternative - husband could heave a big sigh of relief that I'd hired someone to do the job and say, "Whew! I really don't feel confident enough/energetic enough to do it, I am tired and will be happy to pay someone else to do the job, they will probably do it faster & better than I could have, anyway."
How much does your husband earn per hour? How many hours of his time is spent doing things which you could pay someone else to do? Maybe instead of getting husband to do the jobs, send husband out do put in longer hours at work (he seems to be good at it) so you can pay someone else to do what husband is NOT good at.
Whichever way you go, I think you need to head in the direction of not relying on husband to do the home handyman stuff. But do make sure he is footing the bill.
Also, men often are not good at talking, or being asked to talk (or listen). Men think in straight lines. They go from point A to Point B without deviating. Women, on the other hand, often need to deviate, to detour, to check out everything else along the way to make sure nothing has been forgotten. And some men especially just can't understand this and resent being asked to try. If he is like this, then he will be 'zoning out' when you try to talk to him about fine details.
You can't change him, if he's like this. You are right. You would need to change yourself, and the way you talk to him about things.
Not easy, for either of you.
Marg
Witz,
I have been out with a migraine, sorry I didn't post earlier.
I have some of the same problems with the cumputer crud - a God at work, a gamer at home. Ours were much worse earlier. Mostly because I kept taking away parts of his computer. For LONG periods of time. And we could not afford a new mouse, so one didn't get bought.
I am so very sorry. I hope that you can find a way to handle this, and make him see the importance of handling it, so that you can be happy.
Hugs,
Susie
I have been out with a migraine, sorry I didn't post earlier.
I have some of the same problems with the cumputer crud - a God at work, a gamer at home. Ours were much worse earlier. Mostly because I kept taking away parts of his computer. For LONG periods of time. And we could not afford a new mouse, so one didn't get bought.
I am so very sorry. I hope that you can find a way to handle this, and make him see the importance of handling it, so that you can be happy.
Hugs,
Susie
TerryJ2
Well-Known Member
How much does your husband earn per hour? How many hours of his time is spent doing things which you could pay someone else to do? Maybe instead of getting husband to do the jobs, send husband out do put in longer hours at work (he seems to be good at it) so you can pay someone else to do what husband is NOT good at.
I like that idea!
I like that idea!
