Jen,
People say that relationships are complicated. Marriage with an x especially who has children with them is complicated. Marriage with and x who has multiple difficult child's can be even more complicated. My thoughts on this are - I guess it is what you and your spouse make of it AS A COUPLE. Does this mean I think that ex's can't be demanding, mental, difficult, and troublesome? Not at all. My ex is ridiculously hideous. DF's x is - well she's a legend in her own mind, and their daughter together is the proverbial apple not falling far from the tree. Rotten apple at that.
I sat back yesterday and thought about what I wrote you after I wrote it. BEFORE I hit post? I read and re-read what I said. I'm not one to mince words and rarely do I change my stance on how I feel, because I write what I feel based on my own life. True it's my opinion, but I felt like the older sister that may have come on a little too strong. So I asked DF - which you can ask him in 10+ years on the board - I hardly ever discuss this board, it's my sanctuary. I just wanted a man's p.o.v.
It was a great over an hour long conversation between the two of us regarding your situation, and he said to tell you that in twelve years - Despite our differences he can tell you for a fact that I have never looked in his phone, wallet, desk drawers, gone into any of his stuff - not ever done into a tool drawer in the garage without asking. AND.....the same has gone for anything of mine - He's never gone into my purse without asking, or my phone, address book - drawers. Both of us have ex's that really did a number on both of us and BOTH of us went through family counseling together, and I went through individual counseling for years and years. In that time? I found my voice, my boundaries, and established within my own head what I would and would NOT bend on as time went by because in any relationship you are constantly evolving -true, but that doesn't mean GIVING UP or being unbalanced. It also doesn't mean being unheard, or being lied to, or being sneaky, or vindictive, or hurt, or pouting, or holding a grudge, or impatient, or sad, or angry more of the time than less of the time. Will those things happen? OF COURSE, but how you react to them in our opinion determines how your children take things into their lives, how you spend your elder years, how your friends perceive you, and your character. You can't be one way behind closed doors with your husband and then walk out and be another in the world and be happy. A soul split is never at peace. So if you are with your soul mate? Why wouldn't you do things that make life joyful more of the time than less of the time?
Do we aggravate each other? YOU BET! Do we ever walk away from each other? Sure. Do we disagree on things? All the time. Do we get frustrated with things the other does? Okay he lives with ME - are you serious? I'm dang near nirvana - (snort) OF COURSE. But if my relationship with him wasn't MORE happy than sad? Or at least more TRY than NOT and certainly 100% trust would I be here? H no. and I mean that. When we first met? We were friends. When we started dating - we took it slow. I was certain he was some test of 'bad boy mentality' from God - I mean I thought frying pan to fire with him. I'd just divorced Satan and now here was an honest to gosh biker. Long hair, tattoos, and I thought - "Wow when you put them in front of me God you really do test me huh?" and after over a year of dating? We decided not to date anyone else - (I wasn't any way, but didn't let him know that, it was none of his business,but I guess he figured it out when we went out more than 3x a week.) And before we dated exclusive I said "We need to establish RULES."
Well, this was just very odd to him, but he said "Okay." And I cleared the kitchen table off, got Dude to bed and we sat down over a coke, and I asked him when he was younger had he ever played any games like Monopoly? He said he thought so and at this point I'm guessing he thinks I'm out of my tree. I kept on and said "Do you remember ever setting up the game, and having x number of players and a banker, and then someone reading the rules?" He said "Nah no one ever read the rules before the game we all just kinda knew what to do." I said "Yeah see - that is the part I want to talk about.....so when you played and kept playing do you ever remember any arguments as the game went on, someone would say something like that wasn't how they played it in their house, or someone else would come up mid game and someone would say they could get in mid-way during the game and 3 people said okay and one person said no?" He chuckled and said "Always, there were ALWAYS disagreements." I asked "Do you know why?" So he said "I guess because everyone played it different at their own house or learned it different?"
I said "Exactly - and it's not a lot different than a relationship. If we don't tell each other the rules to begin you come in with your way of playing it and I come in with my way of playing and we both assume this is played yourway or my way and one of us eventually gets angry and the other one has no idea why, because we've been doing it our way for so long and no one ever set up the rules so we both know what is understood from the get go." He said he'd never heard it that way - but we agreed it was a good thing. (My therapist told me this so I knew it was a good thing) and it was a VERY interesting conversation that night. We talked about what we both wanted in a realtionship more than anything and our number one attribute for both was TRUST. And a ton of other things that when I brought my list to the table? He said they were things he had never thought of. But they were things that I didn't want to have to "throw in years later" for a "Oh you should have just known that." Common sense things are common sense - and respect is respect. But what you think is a constitutes a continued relationship with your husbands ex? May not be his idea - and there needs to be a mediator for these things so both of you can have your peace about it. This is why I'm saying - Get into couples counseling. If he says NOT....then you need to go, and I'm saying GO - because if you are having issues with what he is doing? Either one of two things is going on - 1.) He's NOT spending too much time with his ex...and you are having insecure feelings and that is YOUR problem and you need to deal with it before it costs you your marriage, so get a handle on it. or 2.) He IS spending too much time with his ex....and you need to know how to address it in an adult manner before it costs him HIS marriage, because if that's the case? YOU will figure out in counseling your self-worth and realize - how to draw boundaries, and say NO, and tell people what you think without throwing boots. (and I know this because I'm a reformed childish thrower myself - except I didn't throw boots - I threw a set of bud-rims off a pick-up truck and almost killed him) - so when I said childish? I knew EXACTLY the pot calling the kettle mkay? (told you I was an emotional writer - and my therapist used those exact words with me) nuf sed.
I'm not saying any of this to hurt you or belittle you - or to drive a wedge in your marriage. I'm also not saying this to make him seem like he did NOTHING wrong. On the contrary - 7 lies? THERE IS A HUGE problem there. However - 2 wrongs do not make a right - And at some point you are going to have to figure out that one of you has to step up to the plate and find peace in themselves and at this point since you aren't a liar? I'm banking on you to rise above it. I also don't make any excuses for him lying. I don't care if he's shoved in a corner, or in a hide-a-bed - a lie is a lie is a lie. And snooping is snooping....you still know you do it. Unless you are CIA or a making money as a spy? You shouldn't have to do it. And the day that you do? Should tell you something is hugely wrong.....and needs hugely fixed. Either you have trust, or you don't. I can't find a single good excuse for a liar. Little white lie - maybe (like that backside thing ) but past that? When I have to start snooping? The seeds of doubt are planted and I'm off the farm. I've already had a relationship with enough liars. I gave it one last shot with a man - and told him - ONE lie? I'm done. Him too - If you want to wipe the slate clean, establish rules, and start over - so be it. I'd just let him know - what your rules are. But I'd do it in front of a mediator after I got all of the hurt out of my system - and I'd make SURE I knew everything that I hurt over after I went through counseling ON MY OWN so I KNEW why I hurt and could explain it to him better. (Understand?)
Hugs & Love
Star
