husband lied to me

[HaoZi]

Might be something to backburner until your marriage counseling session? Then discuss *when* it's a BAD time to be texting with her (and maybe some no-electronics time for you both, even if it's only an hour a day together). And (at session) let/encourage/whatever him to acknowledge that he still has an attachment to her - but that attachment is not in the same way it used to be. If that makes sense.

 

[Marguerite]

I don't know if this can help you Jena, but I think I need to say it.

I learned many years ago, that jealousy was pointless. At the time I had a boyfriend who I was really committed to. But it was a problem relationship, the guy was passive-aggressive and manipulative. With hindsight, it is good I did not end up with him. But I fought for that relationship, and when there were problems I worked to try to resolve them. We were students at uni together, part of a larger group of friends, male and female mixed.
The time came when we formally broke up. He did not break it off finally; he said we needed to perhaps take some time apart for a little while, give the relationship a break. He left the door open for us to get back together and of course we would stay friends in the meantime, he said. Then almost within a week or two, he began to talk in our group about a lovely young Chinese girl who he sat next to in Chemistry. He hinted they had Chemistry in more ways than one! He kept talking about her, how he helped her with this, she helped him with that. I did my best to not react - I no longer had a claim on him. But I did wish he would shut up about her. Even the others in the group were, I think, getting a bit tired of him harping on about this girl.

Then one day we all filed in to lectures for another of our science subjects, and instead of him sitting with our gang, he was sitting in the row in front with a pretty Chinese girl next to him. All through the lecture their heads were close together. He would lean over and whisper, and vice versa. I realised she must be the girl he had been talking about. But I kept telling myself - I had no claim on him, if he ended up going out with her, that was no longer my business even though I was hoping he would get this wanderlust out of his system and come back to me.
As we filed out of that class, I met up with him at the end of the row of seats. "You haven't introduced me to your friend," I began. The look of triumph on his face was fleeting but unmistakeable - that unmentionable creep had been trying to make me jealous! he did not introduce me even then, just smiled maliciously and left.

So I sat and thought. There was no point my being angry with the girl - she did not know anything about me, probably had no idea of the baggage exBF was carrying. He had not introduced the girl to any of the gang - what did that mean about his commitment to her, really? Poor girl - she seemed a nice kid, deserved a lot better.

So I worked out how to get my revenge. I worked it out carefully.

I made friends with her.

In lectures when he and she were sitting together, I made a point of sitting on the other side of her. I don't know if it was a cultural thing for her or not, but she latched on to me as a female friend and began to ignore a glowering exBF sitting on her other side. And all the bignoting he had done with our friends, talking about how this girl couldn't do without him - what they observed for themselves told them how much he had lied.
What is more - I felt good. This girl was a really great kid, and certainly did not deserve to get stuck with my creep of an exBF. So instead of being consumed by jealousy and having that really horrible feeling in the pit of my stomach, I felt free and happy.

What I worked out was this - if me and boyfriend were meant to be, then it would happen. If he was resorting to trying to make me jealous, then he clearly still had feelings for me, but was expressing them in very unhealthy ways. If he was not going to be able to grow up and behave responsibly and communicate in an adult fashion, then the sooner I learned this, the better for me.

If the guy is mine, then I can be confident that any other woman making moves on him, or even having history with him, is not the woman in his life NOW. And if it turns out that there is a woman who means more to him than he realises, or than is good for our relationship - well then, our relationship is not what I thought it to be and the sooner this becomes obvious, the better for us all.

About a year after my 'game' with exBF, I was going out with husband when he was away with friends. While away, he met a cute girl who made moves on him. husband was trying to be faithful to me, his heart was with me, but here he was with a pretty girl snuggling up to him. He felt really bad when he found himself holding hands with this girl and berated himself for weakness. He told me all about it, expecting me to want to break up with him. I just hugged him because it was clear to me - his hand may have been holding this girl's, but his heart was with me. If the girl had been successful in seducing him away from me, she was welcome to him because it would mean he never had properly been mine.

husband didn't have a clue that this happened because he was being pursued. He was blaming himself. But I had my own suspicions.
Then husband met up with the group he'd been away with, and brought me over to introduce me to this female friend of his. As soon as she saw me, the look on her face confirmed my suspicions - she was NOT happy to see me, my presence was clear proof that all her efforts to win husband had been a waste of time. He never had been hers, never would be hers.

Knowing this with confidence helped me be gracious, polite and friendly. if anything, that probably riled her even more. Good.

Since these two incidents, I do not get jealous. If I ever have cause to be jealous, then my relationship is not what I thought it was, and if/when it becomes valueless there is no reason to be frantic about it.

Your husband was kissed by his exwife (now a lesbian in a relationship with another woman) when they were handing kids over. Frankly - this is the way friends and ex-lovers behave, acceptable. Some people are more tactile than others. When we go to church, I get kissed by the husbands of my friends. Their wives kiss my husband. At a friend's birthday party, he hugged me perhaps a bit longer than he needed to (I felt a bit uncomfortable) but husband was there, not upset.

I was introduced to a bloke of Greek descent - I barely know the guy. But I got two resounding kisses, one on each cheek! it is cultural, too. He was not in any way making a move on me.

I often see husband kissing some female. Even at a work function, at a work Christmas party for example, a female co-worker could come up and give him a kiss. I don't have a problem with that - I know I have his heart.

If I ever got upset with husband, it would be more likely to drive this sort of behaviour underground, or drive a wedge. My aim is to remove any wedges and work for openness and communication. While some people might see a demonstration of jealousy to be equivalent to an affirmation of love, I see it as insecurity and lack of faith in the relationship. If ever I feel so insecure, I re-evaluate the relationship and ask myself - do I really need this level of mental distress?

I admit I did have to work a bit to learn to shut off jealousy. But I feel so much freer as a result, so much happier and confident.

Look at the reality of your situation. Your husband is most unlikely to ever get back with his ex. Not only is he married to YOU, she is not even batting for the same team! She sounds like she was at times malicious and manipulative. He sounds like he is relieved to be no longer in a live-in relationship with her. BUT - they have kids in common, so they have to have a relationship together, of sorts. Unavoidable.

Do not make the mistake of channelling her, of demonstrating the same controlling behaviour that she was guilty of. It will be the first thing he will think of when you get upset - "oh, crikey, here we go again, another jealous, manipulative woman in my life! No wonder I have to tell lies!". You need to actively undermine those thoughts in him, so he will learn to actually come to you and volunteer the truth, rather than automatically lie because he's scared of how you will react. Make your relationship with him a haven from ex-wife stress rather than a second helping.

You are probably already working on some of these things. If so - consider this an affirmation.

Marg

 

[DDD]

Ya know what I was wondering about? (Yes, I still think it's your decision, lol.)

When you asked him what would your reaction have been if he told you the flat out truth. "I was just texting with Ex, she asked about CPS etc. and I told her the truth."

Then you wouldn't have the issue "lies". My gut says, however, that the issue of "truth" would have triggered a similar gut reaction...and, maybe, a more explosive one.

Maybe something to think about. Hugs, DDD

 

[4timmy]

Jen,

If we don't tell each other the rules to begin you come in with your way of playing it and I come in with my way of playing and we both assume this is played yourway or my way and one of us eventually gets angry and the other one has no idea why, because we've been doing it our way for so long and no one ever set up the rules so we both know what is understood from the get go."

Star

I agree with Star that you have a chance now to establish a commonly understood set of rules with your husband. I admire your strength and conviction in knowing exactly what the boundaries are for you in your relationships with regards to trust. Star is correct in saying that so many of us chalk it up to common sense. I grew up in a very loving home with both parents but had very little rules or boundaries. My parents have been married for over 50 years. I've been married for 20 years now and find myself struggling with some of the same serious issues we talk about here. I still don't have a clue as to what should be acceptable or unacceptable rules in a relationship. I don't believe my husband does either so maybe that's why we are still together. BUT, I'm older now, I've learned from a multitude of mistakes that can be mainly attributed to not having set boundaries, rules, Convictions and beliefs. I'm empty.

Just a theory on your situation..... perhaps your husband's need to "run to" his ex is based in insecurity or perception of self-worth. If you are the strong-willed woman that I sense you are from reading your posts here, he may actually feel a little "unworthy" at times. Men are a different breed when it comes to coping with insecurity or feelings of what they perceive to be less of a man. It may be that he just totally disagrees with your opinion and he's just gonna go ahead and do it, but keep things from you because he doesn't want to start a fight ....OR he copes with his insecurities by seeking alternative attention, i.e., the EX, past affairs, etc. or both. When we don't establish rules and boundaries early in our lives, well, obviously we just do what we want and fly by the seat of our pants through life. I don't know what his childhood was like but judging by what you've stated regarding his past discretions, he didn't have many rules and boundaries

I send happy thoughts your way and I'll be checking on your posts. Oh, and Star has way convinced me that I need to see a counselor. I absolutely LOVED her post.

 

[Jena]

wow i now think that all of you should do some marriage/relationship advice column. Marg that was very deep too and cool stuff you wrote. i totally get your point and yes i do need to relax a bit. i have i'm slowly calming down.

i def need some work too in this dept. she is extremely overwhelming and it's just a whole lotta drama i don't want or need in my life between the endless texts him saying whys she texting me and on and on we go. than her turning the kids against him and i both. we actually lost the oldest due to mom's manipulation. so it's all just very sad also.

i came into this with an open heart and ready to love all these people. even met with-the ex in the beginning told her please these are "your" children i will always respect you as their mom if you ever need help with-them anything i can do just let me know i'm all in. maybe that was wrong. husband told me how vile she is, how maniuplative and deceptive she can be. he said she's giong to come after you something awful, and she has.

it's like her pt job of sorts she's even gotten on phone and bashed me to his family that doesnt' really talk to me. she's done so much hard work to ruin us and why? she already hurt him years ago why would she want to ruin his chance at happiness? also he is a weak man of sorts when it comes to ppl needing from him. it's part of what makes him him. he cant' say no to anyone which is probably why we're broke each mos. he gives car insurance money to young kids that work for him, loans you name it.

yet i think someone mentioned his self worth kinda thing lies with-her or something.? i think there's a dynamic there with-her that he just can't wrap his head around a strong control issue alot of verbal abuse and well he still jumps to her a sort of pattern. iknow he'll never be back with-her in any way shape sort etc. yet he also doesn't get why he does what he does and openly admits it by stating is that wrong to answer to her why he have a new puppy give her a recipe at midnight? i said yea it's kinda inappropriate.

i said you gotta talk about kids i get it there's 3 of them, yet the us stuff shouldnt' be a topic of conversation at all, ever. our life is private in that sense and truly none of her business. he's proud of the fact that thru the years he's learned to grown away from her manipulation and control. it used to be very bad in the beginning i dont' know how i made it this far.

we would go out to dinner and i'd hear him on the phone in the bathroom she'd call to ask how dinner went?! he'd answer yes this was long ago. we'd move our first big move years ago from his small apt. she called to tell him how she loved him etc he sat on the phone for an hr with her! i could go on and on yet you get the idea.

she is super controlling needs to be the center at any cost also highly abusive to her kids i've come to learn also. i said to him once why'd you stay? he said well i was young didnt' know any better and so i forgave her each time and tried to work thru it. i said the man i know today god forbid i hurt a kid you would sit me down and say ok you need alot of help.

this is a woman who broke her oldests thumb i just recently learned when she was 3 and giving her a bath because she was being difficult. she's slapped kids faces, broken their toys. she sounds like she was quite the volatile insane person to live with.

i have protected myself from her past two years. on holidays i used to keep kids, i used to keep them in the summer mornings etc. yet i had to deal with-her because they had to be dropped off or picked up. she'd always create a scene of some sort. either yelling at a kid hitting them texting me too much. such drama we didn't need. difficult child didnt' need it bigtime. so after i saw that happen a handful of times i sadly tell the kids now i'm sorry guys i can't keep you. it's sad yet it keeps meout of the line of fire so to speak.

therapies next monday on difficult child's birthday actually. time will tell if we can find a resolution to it all or if we're meant to. i'm just happy easy child's doing alot better and difficult child' will always be her yet i have more control now over her behaviors

 

[rlsnights]

I am aware that I know very little about your situation, your marriage, your history and your husband's history. I don't have the time I'd like to go back and read all of the many previous posts. I may be repeating things others have said and I hope you will forgive any dumb comments I might make or ideas that have been thoroughly aired. But your first couple posts were so filled with pain and questioning. I am responding to that - to what sounded like your sense that your perceptions and beliefs about this incident are very, very important and deserve your attention rather than being brushed under the carpet and ignored.

First, why are you checking his cell phone? This seems like a violation of his boundaries to me and suggests you and he may need to tend to this issue. I have found that just because I am married certain boundaries do not vanish. If anything they become more important as evidence of mutual respect and trust. Been doing the marriage thing for 18 years with my wife and we are still learning those kinds of lessons so don't take that too hard. Life is messy and didn't come with a rule book.

Second, it seems unrealistic to me to think that you could have kept this information from the ex given that children move between the households. Perhaps taking control by the two of you telling ex about important issues like this one in a direct no nonsense fashion would be helpful. Like it or not, if you share children (and you do) his ex is part of the package you accepted when you chose to marry husband. Managing that relationship respectfully, regardless of her behavior, may help your husband be more reliable and honest. It sounds like he feels trapped between you and his ex. He may not be able to articulate his ambivalence and instinctive understanding that secrecy won't work. So he does stupid stunts like this.

Third, I don't think your desire to treat the CPS visit as a private family matter is necessarily wrong. If anything, it may be in your children's best interests for this to be so since they may not be equipped to field questions from peers or other adults (who should know better but rarely do). Asking the ex and husband to recall that it is really all about the kids is totally appropriate in my book. But there's a difference between private and secret. Secret implies wrong doing and shame. Private says, this is just none of your business. It sounds like you have opted for secret rather than private.If the ex wants to be the center of attention help her see how vital her role is in protecting the children. If you can maneuvering her into suggesting that this is not the business of people outside the family that would terrific. Even if you are only able to create an agreement that the matter is open to discussion or at least acknowledgement within the family brings her into the "fold" as it were. Now she is part of the protective ring of adults defending the children, to use an analogy taken from herd life.

Fourth, (this may sound contradictory to third but is just another way to think about this) you could openly acknowledge to anyone and everyone that CPS has taken an interest in your family. And that they are satisfied that all is well. This robs anyone like school staff, the ex, your children, your pastor, whoever, of the power to hold this over you or to threaten to call CPS on you in the future. You have nothing to hide so why hide it? And it may send a message to your children that their family is doing OK despite the difficulties you are all facing.

Fifth, setting aside the question of dishonesty, the texting during a CPS visit was soooo inappropriate in my opinion. No matter who he was texting, his family was on the line here and it deserved his complete attention. That is what I would find most disturbing. It suggests a lack of good judgement that is dangerous to your family's long term success. Short of "your daughter is in ER and you need to come now because they are talking life-support." I cannot imagine a circumstance that would excuse this behavior. And this is not something you can fix by talking about trust. If he can't see that this was out of line then you will always be walking a tightrope that can be cut by his poor judgement calls. If there's a reason to consider ending the relationship, that may be it. I am not advocating you leaving, just saying sometimes it's the little things that are easy to ignore that end up being the canary in the coal mine. The same could be said about your decision to invade his privacy by checking his cell.

I think your decision to seek counseling is a very good one. You have a very complicated family structure and there are many competing interests to take into account when you move through your daily life. It will never be easy.

I also think it essential for you to find a therapist of your own to help and support you no matter how things turn out.

Just my 2 cents.

I hope you are able to find peace with husband's actions so you are not hurting.

All the best,

Patricia

 

[Marguerite]

Jena, your description of exwife is interesting and enlightening. You clearly do see that they won't get back together, ye you ask - why does she keep interfering in his life and apparently sabotaging it?

I think you hit it right on the head - she is controlling and manipulative. These are not necessarily bad qualities if the person can keep them under control, but she is not. In her mind, his happiness must always be under her control. Because they were once married, because he was once hers, she considers he still is. His life (which includes you) belongs to her still, in her mind. She sees herself as the puppetmaster. No happiness in his life is permissible, unless it is through her. For her, you have always been that random factor she cannot control, and the only way she CAN try to control you is through the kids and the in-laws.

What hold does she have over them (your in-laws)? Their past relationship, while undoubtedly toxic, would have been on of her controlling, and them appeasing. She gets upset - they placate her, tell her/give her what she wants. She wants them to be hostile to you? OK, they do it, because the price is access to the kids (for grandparents).

I've mentioned my stalker neighbour - he is like this, very controlling and wants to be seen in our community as the man to come to when you want action taken politically, or you want advice in anything (especially legal advice). But people are discovering (it's not just a personal thing between him and me - he does it to a lot of people) that once you let him into your life, you have a great deal of trouble getting him out. In my case, after I publicly severed my friendship with him, he continued to harass my friends and pump them for information about me. My friends told me of these interactions and I was careful to only tell those friends things I was OK for the stalker to hear. Sometimes i deliberately slipped false (and unlikely) information, so I could track how fast and from what direction the gossip was worst. I remember I won an award, in a new field. It was quite a big deal, an important award. When stalker neighbour found out, he knew his usual approach (that if being able to claim that he was my advisor in this field, so my success was only due to him) would not work, since I had moved into this professional area after my split with the guy. So his response was, "It's nice that she's got this new hobby to keep herself occupied." He had to downplay it, so his lack of involvement in my success was because it was too trivial to care about.

I tell you this not because I was angry with him, but because it gave me a great deal more insight into that kind of personality. husband's ex sounds very similar - she has to be the puppeteer, the one who knows all, sees all and fixes all. And the people who have to endure someone like this learn (conditioned response, reinforced over years) that the easiest way to survive is to give them what they want. To a certain extent, you ahve already found tat this woman WILL use the kids as a weapon. husband sounds like he is trying to keep her happy, in order to minimise problems she can cause, in his relationships with his kids. When you get upset about this (no matter how justified you are) it makes him the meat in the sandwich.

She is clearly inappropriate. SHE. Not him, other than what she has trained him to do, like a performing seal. He's a bloke - they are less complex in tis sort of relationship, as a rule. Not always, but mostly.

Long phone calls - I've been there done that with certain people I know (including colleague with schizoaffective disorder plus plus). Hanging up on such a person is NOT a good idea - I learned to find other ways to cope. I often had to invent someone at the door, or a sudden crisis with the kids (don't do THAT one with exwife - she will use it asa weapon!). Your husband is going to have to continue to deal with these texts and phone calls. Chances are, if he fails to respond fast enough to a text message, he will get five more in quick succession, or even a phone call at an awkward moment (such as during CPS interview). Texting back a brief message promptly sounds like his way of trying to head her off at the pass.

Please do not try to control him. You are also going to have to accept that much of this crud cannot be stopped. He can't stop it otherwise he would have done so years ago. Instead, sympathise with him, support him. If he's on the phone to her for an hour, go make him a cup of coffee to sustain him. Nourish him. He will love you the more for it, and the more he appreciates what you are trying to do, the more this contrasts against what SHE is trying to do, and he will see this.

Let him talk. Do not comment or get judgmental. You could say, "She's trying to control you again when she says X or does Y. You do see that, don't you?" but unless he asks, do not tell him what to say or what to do. Recognise she is a skilful interrogator of not only him, but your in-laws and the kids. Anything you do not want her to know, you have our work cut out for you, frankly. For example, if I had wanted to keep my breast cancer diagnosis secret and I were in your shoes, I would not be able to let my in-laws know and not the kids. I would also have to constantly downplay the diagnosis with husband but at the same time keep making it clear, I feel too upset about this, too ashamed, for anyone to know. There mere thought that anyone else in the world could know, would be unbearable. And even with this - he probably still would tell her, or let something slip unintentionally, because she has people so thoroughly trained.

So I'm sorry, Jena, but your life will continue to be an open book with this woman. The best way you can handle tis is to keep recruiting husband for your team. Keep repeating the recruitment. Not in a controlling way, but in a "Come into my arms and I will comfort you" kind of way. You have one massive weapon in your armoury she does not - you love him AND you bat for his team!

With my schizoaffective caller - it got to the point where husband fielded all phone calls. Mobile phones make this difficult, but you can always help him stay engaged in your life, keeping you in his eye, by staying in his sights (and engaging him) even during a phone call. How you react is under your control. Make light of it, even laugh about it with him. "She asked you WHAT? Doesn't she have a life? She left you, but she still wants you in her pocket. How does her wife feel about this? Gee, I hope her wife doesn't start calling or texting me like this, it could get complicated. Bob and Carol and Freda and Alice... I'n not sure our bed is big enough. I'm not sure if my stomach is strong enough!"

Humour is a great de-fuser and recruiter. Whatever she does, whatever her tactic is - you do the opposite. Do NOT do what she does, in any way. He is too browbeaten by it already.

I'm not saying what is happening here is right. It is not. But it is what is. You can't make it go away. But you CAN make it work to your advantage.

Marg