I also feel like I have been a slow learner. I was hoping beyond hope and helping beyond it being helpful. Now just learning to live with what is and trying to be gentle on myself.
I’m back… update on youngest of 3 sons
- Thread starter New Life
- Start date
I wish I could get on a plane and go to Phoenix and try to track him down, just for the opportunity to sit across from him and talk to him face-to-face. I don't think it would make a difference in how he responds but it would give me some closure I don't have. It would be the one thing I haven't tried yet.
Copabanana
Well-Known Member
Three times I made wild goose chases on the train to where my son was living. We had arranged to meet. He didn't show. Now it was only a day's trip. I am not sorry I did it. The thing is, going to Phoenix for you is way across the country. A place I don't think you have a support system, or know very well. I could see that it would be a crushing experience based upon a wish.. It would for me, be devastating.
I think that we give ourselves a type of closure. It's not based on what we objectively do or not. Or where we go, here or there. It's a place in ourselves where we reside. We find it, and we grow it. I know that is what I did.
You well know it's not for me at least, one and done. I slip up. But I have this place where I can return. I know when I am back.
I don't think any of us ever do everything possible. Everything possible, is a decision. It's not out there. I think we find a place that is "enough." And the enough place factors in our own welfare. In fact, it's all about our welfare. Why shouldn't it be?
Our children are adults. Adults move on. Why can't we?
I think that we give ourselves a type of closure. It's not based on what we objectively do or not. Or where we go, here or there. It's a place in ourselves where we reside. We find it, and we grow it. I know that is what I did.
You well know it's not for me at least, one and done. I slip up. But I have this place where I can return. I know when I am back.
I don't think any of us ever do everything possible. Everything possible, is a decision. It's not out there. I think we find a place that is "enough." And the enough place factors in our own welfare. In fact, it's all about our welfare. Why shouldn't it be?
Our children are adults. Adults move on. Why can't we?
Copa,
You've mentioned before about those trips to meet with your son and how he failed to show, and my heart just breaks to think of that. You are correct--Phoenix is across the country; I know no one there; and yes, it could be a crushing experience. I've thought about it a lot. Well, at any rate, the expense of going is not feasible anyway. If I knew someone out there I could stay with, I might be able to swing it, but with the cost of a flight, lodging, car rental, and food, we're talking a minimum of $1,000. And then there's no guarantee I'd even find him. But I still think about it. I can't seem to completely let go of trying to get to him.
Copabanana
Well-Known Member
I hope with all my heart that there is a way.
I’m glad to hear from each of you. It helps stabilize me when I’m struggling. I’m getting the pleas from my son to bail him out. Saying all the right things about how he just needs help. Man they sure know how to grip the heart strings. I want nothing more than to help him. But I have to answer two things. One is it really helping him? And two would this be the time it stops? I’m afraid I know both answers. But it’s still hard.
Copabanana
Well-Known Member
Your son needs his own help. That is the only help that will make a difference. When we keep "helping" them, it reinforces that the help they need is external to them. What changes is his decision to help himself. There is a world of help available to our adult children if they choose to avail themselves of it. But unfortunately that help, whether treatment, sober living, school, a job, Vocational Rehabilitation, etc. requires that they do their part. Their part usually involves something they choose not to do or cannot do (sobriety, discipline, a regular schedule, behavior change, etc.)
Our change is when we get that there is no amount of self-sacrifice that will "get them" to do their part if they don't want to or can't do it.
Last edited:
Well said, Copa. Of course there is more that I can do. But it would be balancing my welfare against my daughter's. I have reached the place that is "enough". I go up and down but I do know the right thing for me is to return to "enough". It's trying to be okay with that where the struggle lies. Maternal instinct. I wish there was a magic solution to really being able to "Let Go".
Beta. I feel for you. I really do. I understand the pull for you to want to do this. Occasionally, I have these ideas of going to find my daughter but then reality sinks in. I know what would happen in my case. I need to protect myself. Hard as it is, put yourself first.
Copabanana
Well-Known Member
I don't have anything left in me that "wants to help." Almost, I can't believe that this is so, but it is. But I have not arrived at "acceptance." My therapist put it this way: You need to find a way to love your son the way he is.
Do I? I don't know how. That old song, "Where did our love go?" just came to mind.
I do "love my son." Do I like him? Not much. Do I feel good around him? Hardly ever.
How this will ever change? I don't know.
I think my baseline now hovers between anger and despair, for the time being.
For a long time, I felt free. But since he came back to my town and wanted to come home, and I reacted so strongly "NOOOO" I haven't been able to find that safe place inside myself, for myself in my own life.
I don't know if it's guilt or pain or some other thing. I just don't know.
Do I? I don't know how. That old song, "Where did our love go?" just came to mind.
I do "love my son." Do I like him? Not much. Do I feel good around him? Hardly ever.
How this will ever change? I don't know.
I think my baseline now hovers between anger and despair, for the time being.
For a long time, I felt free. But since he came back to my town and wanted to come home, and I reacted so strongly "NOOOO" I haven't been able to find that safe place inside myself, for myself in my own life.
I don't know if it's guilt or pain or some other thing. I just don't know.
Copa, I think you have a wise therapist.
But one big difference in our situations is that I knew deep down my son would not be “college material,” or perhaps never have a career like my other two kids. My son was happy to have a job—Any job. He was very talented artistically but he had great difficulty learning, which I always attributed to his mother’s drug and alcohol abuse while she was pregnant with him. But the last thing he wanted after barely graduating was to re-do school.
I had hoped he would perhaps enter a trade or art school, but over time and with his drug use, I realized that wouldn’t happen. At least not due to any effort on my part or on my timeline. But I wanted to have a relationship with my son, regardless of any disappointment I may have had over his lifestyle and career or non-career choices.
I think it‘s harder when a young person shows great potential, works hard at school or a career, is motivated to succeed and everything seems to be unfolding according to the plan you have set out on together. Suddenly and for whatever reason—drugs, mental illness or something else, they make a u-turn and go down a dark and unexpected path, resulting in your great disappointment and disbelief. It would have been harder for me to accept that scenario than the one I experienced.
And I struggled with worry that I was underestimating my son and his potential.
But I learned to be grateful for the small things—he had a good work ethic, he took pride in his work, he was kind. Those are really not small things but I found comfort in those non-tangibles when it became apparent that he probably wouldn’t achieve great academic or career success; those markers by which one is successful in our culture.
Copa, I always looked at it as a positive when my son wanted to spend time with me. But, he was very different than some drug abusers or mentally ill who take advantage, and/or become ugly and mean.
Do you have an idea why your son wants to spend time with you now? I truly hope it’s not to ”use” you in any way. There is much I don’t know about your relationship with your son and its complicating factors, but Is there a way you can make even a short time together a positive experience? You might have to dig deep, my friend.
It’s a lot to ask, I know. It requires almost disassociating from any expectations you might have had for your son, at least for the time being, and watching something new or emerging in him develop. And any little development I would consider a small victory, but a victory nonetheless. And small ones can become big ones.
I hope you will heed your therapist’s wise words, dear Copa.
Love and hugs, Nandina
In my case with my son that is what I actually did. (passed away12-2023, age 22)
But one big difference in our situations is that I knew deep down my son would not be “college material,” or perhaps never have a career like my other two kids. My son was happy to have a job—Any job. He was very talented artistically but he had great difficulty learning, which I always attributed to his mother’s drug and alcohol abuse while she was pregnant with him. But the last thing he wanted after barely graduating was to re-do school.
I had hoped he would perhaps enter a trade or art school, but over time and with his drug use, I realized that wouldn’t happen. At least not due to any effort on my part or on my timeline. But I wanted to have a relationship with my son, regardless of any disappointment I may have had over his lifestyle and career or non-career choices.
I think it‘s harder when a young person shows great potential, works hard at school or a career, is motivated to succeed and everything seems to be unfolding according to the plan you have set out on together. Suddenly and for whatever reason—drugs, mental illness or something else, they make a u-turn and go down a dark and unexpected path, resulting in your great disappointment and disbelief. It would have been harder for me to accept that scenario than the one I experienced.
And I struggled with worry that I was underestimating my son and his potential.
But I learned to be grateful for the small things—he had a good work ethic, he took pride in his work, he was kind. Those are really not small things but I found comfort in those non-tangibles when it became apparent that he probably wouldn’t achieve great academic or career success; those markers by which one is successful in our culture.
Copa, I always looked at it as a positive when my son wanted to spend time with me. But, he was very different than some drug abusers or mentally ill who take advantage, and/or become ugly and mean.
Do you have an idea why your son wants to spend time with you now? I truly hope it’s not to ”use” you in any way. There is much I don’t know about your relationship with your son and its complicating factors, but Is there a way you can make even a short time together a positive experience? You might have to dig deep, my friend.
It’s a lot to ask, I know. It requires almost disassociating from any expectations you might have had for your son, at least for the time being, and watching something new or emerging in him develop. And any little development I would consider a small victory, but a victory nonetheless. And small ones can become big ones.
I hope you will heed your therapist’s wise words, dear Copa.
Love and hugs, Nandina
Copabanana
Well-Known Member
I am wondering now. All the years I fought for my son to "change." Was it for me, or for him?
My son wants to spend time in my house. Not with me. He rejects seeing me, if it's not in my house. In my house there is food, there is comfort, there is convenience. I am incidental. My son does love me. He says it and I know it. The thing is, he doesn't see me as a separate person with personal needs separate from him. He does not consider my feelings. This is extraordinarily painful for me.
I feel my son doesn't "see" me. Whether or not this is true, or whether this is a defect in me, I don't know.
See above.
See above.
I was reading lately about something called "theory of mind." Some people with autism and schizophrenia, (it's not confirmed my son has either) lack "theory of mind" the capacity to understand other people as having separateness from them. I am wondering if my son has this affliction.
I don't think the issue for me is my expectations. But I think you hit on the right word Nandina. "Dissociation." I think the turning point for me, was about 6 years ago when I had an episode of dissociation around my son. I was so triggered I blacked out and was unconscious and defended myself in such a way I was unaware and could not remember what I did. It terrified me. Ever since, it's worse if I am alone with him but I am terrified when he is around. This is without basis. My son wouldn't hurt me. But this doesn't stop how I feel. i just do not have the capacity anymore to feel I have the resources to handle his presence.
The more I type the more afraid I get that I will never be able to recover any relationship with him.
In a million years I could not have anticipated being at this point.
Nandina. I am so grateful to you for your response. it's such a gift to be able to respond honestly. I have nobody beyond my therapist in my real life to whom I can say these words. Thank you.
Last edited:
Copa, I feel like I am reading this right out of my own self.
"I don't have anything left in me that "wants to help." Almost, I can't believe that this is so, but it is. "
This is true for me.
"I do "love my son." Do I like him? Not much. Do I feel good around him? Hardly ever."
This has been true for me for years. I love my daughter and I do accept who she is and how she is. I don't like her. I do not feel good around her.
"I think my baseline now hovers between anger and despair, for the time being."
My baseline seems to hover between sadness and guilt. Not a comfortable place to be but it is what it is. I don't know if this will ever change. I mostly just try to focus on myself and my life.
Thanks, Copa.
Thank you, LG, for your kind words. It always helps to know there are others out there who really understand what this is like. That's why this site has meant so much to me since I first found it in 2017. I'm sorry for what you're going through with your daughter.
Similar threads
