I am freaking out right now.....

[welcometowitsend]

I just don't even know how to say this.

difficult child has had problems with pornography before - beyond what I would consider normal for a teenage boy. Anonymous phone/sexting via porn sites - to the tune of phone bills up to $400.00 And who knows what else.

Well, I found a piece of paper today with his computer password on it. He's not home tonight so I hacked in and checked his history.

He has been visiting several sites but the most worrisome is pornographic stories. What disgusts me is I found one about having sex with a dog that he'd read and several more about someone having sex with their sister.

I am shaking right now. What do I do? We have a 13 year old daughter and now I'm terrified. This kid is sick.

He is not here tonight and won't be home tomorrow night either so I have a couple of days to figure something out and talk to daughter to make sure he hasn't done anything to her already.

I'm going to post on general parenting as well just to get maximum advice.

 

[AmericanGirl]

First, i am sorry you are facing this. Second, i am glad you know the truth.

I am no expert on this subject. He could be just innocently being curious...and then again...

I'd err on the side of caution. Has your daughter ever shown any behavior which troubles you? Avoiding her brother? Overly sexual behavior? I know you likely want to run and ask her but I'd try to get my head together first so you don't harm her and get good info.

Have you considered putting a key logger on his computer while you have access? Some will email you reports so you never have to access his computer again.

Again, I wish I could be more help. I know you are afraid and hurting. Am holding your family in my prayers.

 

[SuZir]

I too am sorry you are facing this. But first - take a deep breath. You need to stay calm and rational (and I understand that isn't easy.)

Your son's behaviour is worrying, but don't freak out too much because of one or two websites. Kids (and people in general) are curious. Internet has made checking out macabre things easy and teens are first ones to do so. The dog thing is most likely pure curiosity. More worrying are several stories about sex between siblings. Then again it too can be curiosity or excitement of the breaking a taboo in his head (and probably nothing to do with his actual sister, sex fantasies have often a lot to do with taboos and little with reality.) Of course it could unfortunately also be something less harmless. Then again, if that 'several' is something around 10or 20 stories, I would think more in line of curiosity. When people get sexually interested something that is a taboo, they often either move quickly on, amuse themselves inside their heads with it, or in worse case get obsessed. And if they get obsessed it is likely not be five or twenty stories or pictures but hundreds or thousands, and only after that, if even then, they may even start to think about making it reality. Overcoming taboo in one's head doesn't happen quickly.

As sickly as this makes you feel, it may be a good idea to concentrate to his behaviour, not to something that may, or may not, go on inside his head. How does he behave around his sister? Is he even paying her any attention at all (many/most teen boys think their little sisters pure nuisance and don't pay much attention to them if not to annoy them to amuse themselves when bored)? Have you ever noticed him hanging around when she is changing her clothes or taking a shower? That would be worrying. But if he is not paying a lot of attention to her, it is very possible that he doesn't really connect anything about he has read to his sister.

Of course it is wise to talk to your daughter. But maybe start with her about how she generally feels about her brother, what are her complaints about him. That could be very telling. Does she behave uneasy or is she just angry with him because of the normal annoyances with having a difficult child sibling. If she feels uneasy and it has something to do with sex, then it really is a time to think about getting your difficult child out of your house (would your mother really take him, or is she only fond of giving advices?) If she is just plain annoyed and angry with him I wouldn't be quite that worried about this. But of course this is something you really have to talk with his psychiatrist (when you have an appointment.)

 

[pasajes4]

You bought the computer right? Take it away. Let him know what u found and that because of it NO computer access. Who runs the house...Him?

 

[dashcat]

I am so sorry. I know how upsetting this is. My difficult child went on what i would describe as a "porn spree" when she was only twelve. We had a keylogger and discovered she'd visited - literally - hundreds of sites in one evening. We confronted her, banned her from the computer for a month and told her we'd be very carefully checking the history. She didn't do it again for a long time but, she's always been hypersexual and I know how upsetting that can be for a mom.

Once she got her own laptop, (at 18) there was nothing I could do.

In your case, your son is still young. I wouldn't take the computer away ...honestly, that won't solve the problem. I would, however, install the keylogger and TELL him. Eventually, we did this with difficult child. She wasn't on the porn sites,but she was skype sexting and other wildly upsetting things. We explained it was our home, our computer and the keylogger was clearly necessary. One word of caution though. If you do this, be prepared to findd things you will not like.

As the others said, much of it is probably curiousity and not things he intends to act out. Still, it is perfectly within your rights as a parent to say to your son "this is unacceptable in my home."

In my experience, a difficult child will do things that normal teens do ... but he/she will do those things to the max. They don't seem to have that little switch in their heads that says "time to stop". When we discovered difficult child on the porn sites, we told her we understood her curiousity but that it was not healthy for her to explore in that way ...or to that degree.

Dash

 

[Calamity Jane]

Hi,
I think you're right to be disgusted and even worried.
I think the keylogger thing is great if you allow him to keep the laptop. I would consider ditching a private computer for him completely. That's it...he lost the privilege-but that's just me. Internet porn is insidious, and so easily accessed, and it can be an addiction like anything else. Perhaps his curiosity is not unusual, and if our generation had access to this stuff at his age, maybe we would've gone there too - but those sites are a cesspool, kids are impressionable, and you need to prevent that backwash from flowing into your home in any way you can, or at least make it very, very difficult for him.
I wouldn't expect him to be watching Disney, but sick minds can find all kinds of outlets on the internet which convinces them, "hey, I'm not perverted, lots of other people like this stuff, too." If he needs the laptop for school, then I'm sure you can have various sites blocked---I know our school district that provides laptops to HS kids blocks almost everything from their school-issued laptops. You can probably retrofit his laptop for the same purpose.
FWIW, my brother tried to mess around with me when I was about 8 years old one night while my parents were at a wedding and he was babysitting me (he is 7 years older, and was later diagnosed with schizophrenia). I locked myself in the bathroom till my parents came home, and a few days later I told my mom, who had a hard time believing me. Anyway, it can happen, but I'm actually with SuzR that most of the time, older brothers do not want to be around younger sisters in that way. I'm hypervigilant, but I'd talk to a shrink about this, because there are other issues involved - and maybe you can make sure your daughter knows she can tell you anything and feel safe that she'll be believed, and try not to leave them home alone together.

 

[welcometowitsend]

Thank you all for your replies.

I spoke to easy child daughter this morning and approached her like this.... "I know you've been very angry with difficult child lately and you've said things like 'you wish he didn't exist' and 'you wish he didn't live here'. I'm wondering if he's every hurt you in any way. She said no. I continued to prod and got more detailed like - has he ever touched you inappropriately, made you uncomfortable, that kind of questioning. She said no. I asked if he'd ever threatened to hurt her. No. I let her know that even if she was ever threatened or her family was threatened that if anyone ever touched her, made inappropriate comments or made her feel uncomfortable that she could come to me. I feel pretty comfortable that nothing has happened.

I also visited that website to see whether this was something that just popped up when he first got to the website or if it was something he would have to research to find. It looks to me like it would be something he'd have to research via a couple of sub-pages before he'd find that stuff. Creeps me out. I wouldn't have thought too much of it if it was something he'd come across seemingly by accident and only looked at it once but he has viewed "Me and my sister" parts 1-8 and some of them he has viewed multiple times. I am hoping that him viewing the 'first experience with a dog' was just a morbid curiosity thing and that it won't happen again.

Just got off the phone with a mental health hotline. They have recommended keeping the lines of communication open between difficult child and myself and easy child and myself. There is still some worry in my mind about him crossing that line between fantasy and reality but I don't want to act rashly. On the other hand I need to protect easy child. They basically said to keep a sharp eye out, monitor him, talk to him and bide our time until his psychiatrist appointment (first one) on Aug 13.

I am installing the spyware keystroke program on the computer today while he is out so I will be able to monitor every keystroke, every instant message, emails sent and received, Facebook, Skype - this program monitors everything. It's call Web Watcher. Looks like it got great reviews.

I'm going to have a conversation with difficult child about porn and tell him that via the internet bill that I know he's been viewing stuff and that we need to have a conversation about this. The mental health nurse suggested we try to get into the 'why' is he doing this with him - not whether he should or should not be doing it. I'm not even sure he'll fess up. I talked to him this morning (he's at my mom's to help with yard work) and told him that his data usage on his cell phone was really high (which it is) and a lot of it occurs between 10pm and 5am. So, he tells me it's Facebook and not internet. I said, are you sure you haven't been visiting any sites at all? Nothing? Nope, I'm very proud that I can say I haven't done that in months." Blatant lie but I guess what else could I expect?

Talked to the mental health nurse about setting boundaries but husband and I are afraid to put our foot down right now. If difficult child runs, and he will run if we try to set boundaries, then I'm afraid that he won't go to psychiatrist. Last time he ran was awful - very little communication and when he would communicate he always blew up at us, accused us of all kinds of abuse and was just completely irrational.

Just biding time and trying to get through. August 13 can't come soon enough.

 

[exhausted]

W,
You are doing all the right things. I do want to tell you that no matter what you said to easy child she may not tell the truth either. Not to scare you. Our difficult child was repeatedly molested over 2 years by a cousin who came almost every weekend. She did not disclose until she was 15 years old and in residential treatment. Despite all of our training and always telling her that she could tell us even if threatened-despite never leaving them alone-he was able to get her in the middle of the night. She thought it would tear the family apart to tell us and that she should just bury it. All 11 years later-she has a PTSD and Borderline (BPD) and the suppression may have aggrivated this. Being vigilant is important-never alone together. My buddy in Jr. high was abused by a brother 7 years older and since my kids are 7 years apart-I was worried from the get go. Despite this, the cousin still was able to do what he did. I hope I am not projecting-just supporting what the nurse said. Hang in there!

I do understand not wanting to tweak him so he'll run. It just frosts me that we have to do that or they will not be here for their appointments and then we have to start over again-been there done that! Mine is gone (after months of not running) as we speak and she has an appoinment that she made on Tues. I have the same worry.

 

[welcometowitsend]

This day just keeps getting better and better. difficult child came home today and tried to sneak out with a bottle of wine. Caught him and took the wine - he went out anyway.

I did some more snooping on his computer and am very upset by what I found. webcam live sex stuff, lots of other porn sites and more beastiality stuff. I was so hoping the beastiality was a one-off and he just accidentally stumbled upon it. Unfortunately, I found about 9 different websites that he visited. He didn't seem to spend a lot of time on most of them but still - why keep looking? That kind of thing just doesn't make sense to me.

 

[SuZir]

Unfortunately, I found about 9 different websites that he visited. He didn't seem to spend a lot of time on most of them but still - why keep looking? That kind of thing just doesn't make sense to me.

Well, it doesn't make sense to me either, but I think it is still quite common. Back on the days, way before Internet there were freak shows and public corporal judicial punishments that were very popular. Now the freak shows are in Internet. I do know it is fairly common for boys to look disgusting material out from internet, often together and comment and laugh at it. Pictures of accident victims, people who have committed suicides, most oddest and often disgusting sexual things etc. They do it a lot (at least according my husband who have spends a lot of time with teenage boys in buses etc.) and find it very amusing. It doesn't make any sense to me, but as long as it is not obsessive I wouldn't be too worried.

Of course that doesn't mean you should just provide him internet access and laptop to do so. It is very reasonable to make it clear that you are not paying him doing something like that and severely limiting his access to Internet, but try not to worry too much over it. Talk to psychiatrist when you will have an appointment, it seems your difficult child may be hyper-sexual and that is a symptom, but don't write him off as pervert just yet.

 

[exhausted]

W, I may be unpopular with this but given my experience with difficult child who has a sex compulsion at the very least, I would trust your gut. While I agree that boys do stuff like this, his history is too deap with this. He does it at wee hours, he runs (and who knows what he does) and you have told him to stop and he keeps doing it. I just have been through too much of this with difficult child.

Sex addictions are only now beginning to be understood. It is also said that there are many more people out there with this problem than we know because the media makes it so available and they don't come forward because of the shame and embarrassment which is worse with this addiction than others. I would make sure you share your concerns with the therapist. They will know (if they are any good) if it is beyond normal.

 

[AmericanGirl]

I have a friend who has been a therapist for 30+ years. He says porn is awful...insidious is the word he uses. If they cannot legislate it cause of free speech, then at least I wish they would tax it. It would help keep it out of the hands of kids.

 

[dashcat]

W,
Having read the updates, I am with exhausted on this. Trust your gut. And, Alabama, my therapist has said the same thing. She said a huge amount of what she does is internet damage control, and porn is #1 on the list of offenders.

Hang in there.
Dash

 

[Methuselah]

Hi Welcome. It's true looking at porn is normal for boys. What isn't normal is racking up $400 bills and countless hours viewing it. Go with your gut. If your mom instincts are saying something is wrong, trust them.

 

[welcometowitsend]

Thank you so much everyone. I had a talk with difficult child today about it. I told him that based on his phone usage I suspected that the pornography was still being viewed online. He denied of course so I said, ok, show me your computer. He did and I looked through his history as though it were the first time and 'discovered' the porn.

He says he is done with it, that he's weaned himself off of it. That he is not using his phone for it. Do I believe any of that? No, not a chance. I tried to look into the 'why' of it with him. How was he feeling at the time, was he feeling down? Was he in a risk taking mood? Did he look it up because of something that came up in discussion with friends? He said no. He thought of it himself and it just seemed like a good idea at the time. Then after he does it he asks himself "why did I do that?" It sounds compulsive to me.

I told him I was very concerned about the incestuous fantasy stories he was reading and he assured me that he has no interest in acting those out with his sister. He seemed rather mortified with that - more mortified than that I knew about the bestiality stuff. He seems to think this stuff is popular. Well, I guess it is in some crowds but I assured him that I think this is fringe behaviour and just because something has been viewed by thousands of people doesn't make it 'popular' when there are billions of people online.

Anyway, new rules in the house. He is getting a phone that can not access the internet tomorrow - only text and talk. He is not allowed on his computer unless he is in the same room with me. I don't need to be standing over his shoulder but I will be able to see the screen and will be randomly checking. The internet cable will be with me at all times. If I am in bed it will be with me in my room, if I'm out the cord will be with me. Not fair to easy child but it has to be done.

I told him we love him and that we want him to grow into a productive young man. He is very smart and has a lot of potential. I just let him know that while I don't take issue with young men being interested in sex and pornography I do take issue with him using my internet to view it and with the content of what he is viewing. I talked to him about indulging in things and how that's ok once in a while but if it happens all the time it takes over your life and you don't achieve your goals and dreams for your future. I do believe that porn can be insidious and the internet access makes it so easy to fall into it and hard to get out.

I hope I got through. I have to say he really didn't seem that embarrassed that I knew about it or that I was forcing a discussion about it. I really tried to approach him in a non-judgemental way but if it had of been me I'd have been horrified if someone found out, you know?

It will definitely be getting noted at the psychiatrist appointment despite the fact that he adamantly refused to talk to anyone about it. I am also making an appointment with a new therapist that I found for him to go to. I'm going to take the advice of a couple of people here and tell therapist about it so he can try to get around to it with difficult child. I think that a number of sessions may have to happen before therapist can build enough trust to talk to difficult child and so it doesn't look like I put therapist up to it.

Posting in General Parenting as well...

 

[AmericanGirl]

Sounds like you made some real progress today. I know those talks were difficult but it had to be done.

Keep going....you are doing the right thing!!!

 

[Calamity Jane]

WWE,
You did a great job, stayed calm, etc. Whew! I bet that was difficult.

 

[exhausted]

W, good for you. I bet it was hard, but you did it! The fact that he didn't show enbarrassment is not surprizing-it is probably there along with the shame but he doesn't want to open up and show it. (Thats the therapy work)The compulsive part is what has to be stopped. The trouble with these porn issues is that they can cause serious problems in the future for a healthy sexual relationship if they become a habit.

We are years into therapy and treatment with difficult child and very little headway. These are stubborn problems. We have a good month or 2 and then we are back to difficult child behavior. The roller coaster ride just hasn't ended.

Hang in there.

 

[92025]

uggh, i went through excessive porn with my ex-h. It is apparently a really hard habit to break. Sounds like you're on it, hope things get better for your family