I ask again

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by wakeupcall, May 13, 2010.

  1. wakeupcall

    wakeupcall Well-Known Member

    Again, I ask my friends on here for their opinions. A year or so ago I wrote that I had found three pair of my panties in my son's room. He had no excuse. Today.... I found two of my bras in the bottom drawer of his dresser. He has no excuse. Said he just did it. Doesn't wear them...just wanted them, so he took them. *Sigh* I wonder if I'm going to live long enough to raise him. What am I doing wrong?:sad-very:
  2. smallworld

    smallworld Moderator

    I don't think it has anything to do with you. I think it has everything to do with him.

    When was the last time your difficult child had a neuropsychologist evaluation? If it was more than 3 years ago, I think it's time to schedule a new evaluation.
  3. trinityroyal

    trinityroyal Well-Known Member

    I agree with smallworld. It's not anything you're doing wrong, it's his disorder.
    A neuropsychologist might provide you with some answers.

    And I'm going to pass on some advice that my difficult child's psychiatrist gave me and husband. "Don't ever ask the question 'why?'. Often they just don't know. Even if they do know, they'll either tell you what they think you want to hear, or the answer will be so convoluted and confusing that you won't be any further ahead in your understanding, but you will be much more frustrated by the process of asking the question. So don't ask."

    Truly, that advice has saved my sanity. We still address inappropriate behaviour and still provide natural or logical consequences, but I just don't ask "why" anymore because it breaks my brain.
  4. ML

    ML Guest

    I agree, you're likely doing nothing wrong and you certainly didn't cause his disorder. Please don't blame yourself, being the parents of a difficult child is hard enough without beating up on yourself.

    Hang in there xo
  5. gcvmom

    gcvmom Here we go again!

    My difficult child 1 has done the same things. When he was about 13 and 14, too. Then it stopped for a while. And then just about a month ago, I was looking through his room and found one of my bras stuffed on a lower shelf of his desk!!! GAAAAH!

    We've had a neuropsychologist evaluation -- didn't really tell us anything. Then again, I think the neuropsychologist we had was a flake, or at least she was compared to the one that did difficult child 2's evaluation (VERY impressed with her).

    Anywho.... our psychiatrist thinks difficult child 1 has a mood disorder, and because difficult child 2 has bipolar, psychiatrist is also anticipating the potential for difficult child 1 to develop that way. I still have a huge problem with him seeking out porn. difficult child 2 does NOT do the same stuff difficult child 1 does, likely because his medications are doing a pretty good job.

    I'd bring this up with the psychiatrist and therapist if you have one. It's not necessarily something to act on, but definitely something to monitor closely.
  6. wakeupcall

    wakeupcall Well-Known Member

    I should have known you guys would understand. I've already cried a bucket of tears over this even though I know there are no answers. He's just sooo complicated and like the rest of you, I wish I understood him better....yet I probably never will. Do they ever grow up? Is this going to get better if I just keep waiting year after year?
  7. helpme

    helpme New Member

    Um, I'm a bit embarrassed here to say been there done that.

    Just a few thoughts for you to explore or think about to yourself.

    Is your difficult child hangin out with kids who might be more sexually active than him?
    Is it possible your difficult child is trying to act like he "got"/won the underwear from
    someone else?
    Did you know that kids have competitions about having sex or sexual activity?
    Did you know that some kids keep these "collections" for several years?
    Did you know that some kids decorate the containers they hold these collections
    within? Even label them with names, places and events?
    Did you know they hold contests searching for a certain color, certain size?

    Was I shocked to learn all this? yes. I also learned it from my own easy child,
    who in a round a bout way taught me to stop buying her nice underwear,
    since I do believe she was playing the same game (her boyfriend had her
    underwear in his car hanging from his mirror) I also had a nice conversation
    with some college kids who are still playing these sort of games while in college.

    Now granted, I still end up with suggesting an updated neuropsychologist evaluation,
    but maybe I showed you a little bit of thinking "out of the box".
  8. ThreeShadows

    ThreeShadows Quid me anxia?

    Hi, mine had some of my sanitary napkins ,clean, praise the Lord!, as well as panties, stashed in his room. It got better here. I don't know what made the difference....
  9. gcvmom

    gcvmom Here we go again!

    FWIW, I mentioned my difficult child's latest incident to husband tonight and he admitted that he did the same thing as a teenager. I asked him whose underwear/bras he took and he said he thought it was his mom's, but didn't remember too clearly. He said he did it because he was curious about how it worked. Part of me thinks that curiosity might play a role in this, part of me wonders if husband is just saying this to minimize our difficult child's issues... I'm just hoping it's a phase that will eventually resolve, and I'll mention it to the psychiatrist when we go back in a few weeks.
  10. timer lady

    timer lady Queen of Hearts

    I truly wouldn't make a big deal out of this in front of difficult child. If it worries you to the extent of you questioning your parenting skills/decisions I'd certainly bring it up to psychiatrist, therapist, & likely schedule a neuro psychiatric.

    Saying that, my difficult child son has had many gender issues - he's been diagnosis'd rule out gender identity disorder. Nothing is set in stone with our kids - too much life going on & not a great deal of impulse control. wm has gotten continually better ~ it's seen when his anxiety level is very high.

    Just something to consider.
  11. Marguerite

    Marguerite Active Member

    I was wondering if this could be gender issues, or sexual identity issues, or as your husband described, curiosity issues.

    I agree that asking why doesn't bring answers. But what about "What were you thinking?"
    Not in any accusatory way, but gently as in, "Wen you took these, what thoughts were in your head? Did you have questions you wanted answered? Could I help answer some questions for you? Or your dad?"

    If he wants to know how bras work, then tell him. I used to find with difficult child 1, that he would try to sneak stuff and work it out for himself But when I took a hand in openly g\helping him investigate (porn, online) he was partly horrified but the topic was totally demystified and lost all its attraction for him.

    I would certainly get the therapist involved, pronto.

  12. aeroeng

    aeroeng Mom of Three

    My experience might be a little different. I came home one day to find my dad wearing a dress. It was a shock and actually thrust me into a state of grieving, combined with gilt for grieving for someone who was still alive. But, after seeing my sister go through the same thing, I think grieving for the loss of the perfect image of my dad is also a normal thing. Today I have a loving relationship with my cross-dressing dad. So I might understand cross-dressing a little more.

    Several things could be going on: He might be curious in woman's underwear, because the hormones are raging and he just wants to know. He might have some kind of fetish. Or he might be interested in exploring ideas of cross-dressing.

    1) For curiosity a long talk with a male role model might help. Typically teens out grow the curiosity stage. 2) for a growing fetish he might wish to speak with a therapist to at least learn how to control it and be respectful of peoples property and privacy.

    3) For thoughts of cross dressing. You can not discourage the tenancy or desire. You can only teach the child to keep his mouth shut. I know how hard it was for my adult father to tell anyone. Most of the people who know, know because they walked in on him. Fear of the very strong negative reaction I had, is a good motivator to not talk about it. So for him to talk with you, he must be comfortable with how you are going to react. Also if he is not exploring cross-dressing ideas he might be highly insulted at any implication. I might start a genital verbal campain to make him feel more comfortable talking. Example: "Last week I herd of a mother who actually disowned her son, because she caught him wearing a dress? I could not image ever disowning a child for something like that!, and who cares about what you wear anyway?" You want him to know you are comfortable with the idea, and don't accuse him of anything or even imply. Just open a door that he might be comfortable talking about.
  13. Fran

    Fran Former desparate mom

    I don't know but I don't even think this is too abnormal for a typical young teen. They are investigating their sexuality and it's through the filter of their gfgdom, which makes it quite perplexing for them and us. You have to help filter the world of sexuality to a teen who has their own filter skewered by gfgdom.
    I would ask "what are you doing with these when you take them?" You may not like the answer but it opens the door to talk about sexuality and what is appropriate
    (urges, physical reactions, etc, etc) and how boundaries are observed.(not taking your things,privacy of his own space and No means No from any human being).
    I don't think any professional would be too surprised to have a young, immature male who has sexual fantasy's and acts on them in a singular way.
    If you become comfortable that what he is doing is normal teenage boy thing, you can help him understand it better than leaving him to figure it out himself. Guide his thinking instead of being upset. Sexual urges is a pretty strong primitive drive especially in young teen boys.
  14. BeyondWeary

    BeyondWeary New Member

    Dear Wakeupcall - The best I can say is - DON'T BEAT YOURSELF UP.

    You can't assume things about your son just by finding your underwear in his room. Have a calm discussion with him. Maybe he was just curious about women's bodies and their underwear. I remember going through my mother's underwear drawer when I was growing up, but I didn't take them.

    If you suspect cross-dressing, then ask him if his friends do this or if he has seen movies about this. I am constantly monitoring and critiquing the TV and garbage produced by Hollywood these days with my boys. Have you set the parental controls on your TV and internet? Have you met his friends and their parents? Head things off at the pass. All my best to you.
  15. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    My bro took a couple of my bras at one time. He did the family laundry so I only knew because they were missing for a while. I found them in his room. He was fastening them around a pillow and practicing unfastening them.

    Later he told me all about his "first time" with the girl up the street who slept around. How she thought he was so worldly because he had no problems with the clasp. He had heard the older boys he hung out with talking about how hard it was to unfasten a bra the first few times.

    He was like that with a lot of new things. Had to be able to do it perfectly before he could let anyone know about it. When he learned to walk he would wait until he was alone then practice. My mother only learned by glancing in a room once when she thought he was asleep but eh was practicing. The next time she saw him walk, or anyone else did, it was weeks later and he walked across a room with-o holding on to anything. It has been a lifelong pattern.

    So there can be many reasons for him taking the bra.
  16. Marguerite

    Marguerite Active Member

    I shared a flat with a guy who was a cross-dresser. I'd known about it since I walked in on him when we were both in the same college. We were good buddies, nothing more. He also was not in the slightest way homosexual. Very red-blooded male, very much into red-blooded male stuff, a ladies man who had a string of girlfriends. I had started going out with husband at the time. It was while sharing a flat with this bloke, that I learned to sleep with earplugs because his nocturnal antics with girlfriends in the next room would keep me awake.

    But one night a week, he would get dressed up in women's clothing and ask me to help him with his make-up. His personality seemed to change on those nights, he became more passive, quieter and almost introverted (compared to his usual loud self).

    Some time after this, he became seriously involved with just one girl. She was not the most understanding - when she found out (because he finally told her) she immediately blamed me as being the bad influence on him, accused me of twisting his mind and then began to blame me for absolutely everything wrong in the place, including the bathroom mould! Whenever they had a fight she would use the approach of "Choose - it's X or me." X meaning whatever activity he was involved in that she didn't like. I was still young and naive, but I knew better than to ever give a guy an ultimatum over something so very important to his nature.

    With my friend - I believe he used to cross-dress as a way to give himself a stress break. Being male was something he threw himself into so thoroughly, that having a night off a week was a safety valve for him.

    The last I saw of this guy was some years later. We happened to have become involved in the same direct marketing scheme. He had married his girlfriend, meanwhile husband & I had married. Initially we had each been invited to the others' wedding, but his girlfriend was becoming so unpleasant, I had to cut off all contact. Looking back - she was jealous of our friendship and felt threatened by it, simply because I had known him longer. She also was judging me by her standards - in other words, she didn't trust me to not make a pass at him, because she DID make a pass at husband, big time (who is bulletproof, but she didn't know that at the time).
    So we bumped into one another again, as two couples. They had a child by then, we still hadn't started our family. And friend seemed trapped. No way was that going to last... but not because of the cross-dressing.

    I remember talking to my friend about when it started for him - he said he thought it began in his early teens, possibly sooner. He had a very normal upbringing, his parents were lovely people (we spent some time with them, visited them often). He had other ways to get his 'fix' of cross-dressing without suspicion - he joined a Scottish dance group for a while so he could wear a kilt without anyone suspecting he had an ulterior motive. And at that time, kaftans were 'in'. I remember he threw a pyjama party once and wore a long nightshirt all evening.

    My friend found ways to get his fix of cross-dressing in socially acceptable ways, as far as possible. But it wasn't enough for him, he needed more. Back in those days, going outside the home in women's clothing was NOT safe if you were a bloke. It was illegal for us then. So he never left the house. Besides, there was only so much I could do with the make-up - this guy had a five o'clock shadow half an hour after shaving! Must have been that overdose of testosterone I suspect he was blessed with.

    It really was weird living with him - it was a combination of James Bond and GI Joe six days out of seven, then it was Danny La Rue...