I found it

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by klmno, Dec 14, 2011.

  1. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    .I found the website for the fed juvie system and funding it allocates- inlcluding requirements for the funding and what those goals are and what that service is supposed to encompass. It includes many sections, one that is clearly the funding this re-entry lady PO ordered is falling under. And another that says things like reunifying the juvenile with family, strengthening the family while keeping their economic needs in mind, possible short term group home, having family involved in decision making, gradual integration back into home........

    Can I scream now?

    I don't know if this is good news or bad news- I tend to thinkk it's good news. Practically everything I've been saying difficult child needed and we needed as a family is spelled out in this one funding thingy. BUT PO ordered something under another funding thingy....and that one works toward having the kid get out on his own. Now I don't know if this jurisdiction has something available under this other funding but at least I know that THEY know I'm not whacky and off in left field somewhere if the fed government has something spelled out for this. I can most definitely believe that this state just doesn't support that approach so has noone pursuing that avenue.

    I'm going to have to take a few days and concentrate solely on my big letter about all this koi and get it sent out this winter. This fed juvie agency will definitely be on my mailing list, now that I've found it.

    But, back to the program (group home) that difficult child is currently ordered, it specifically says that social hx, previous criminal activity, etc is to be evaluated prior to determining plan. Yeah...and who makes sure that happens when PO doesn't even crack the file open prior to ordering this program?

    The attny said the chain of command is like this- PO, PO's super, then the main person at CSU overseeing all them. I guess no one is above that person except the sate Department of Juvenile Justice agency. Well, if you start out as a PO learning from other POs, then after a couple of years become a super to other POs, then maybe someday become the 'lead' in that CSU, who outsside the system is there to ever hold these people accountable or teach them any better ways of going about things?

    The last time I spkoe wuth PO's super she made a comment like "well if difficult child comes home to live with me and has a therapeutic mentor that talks to him about the aggression difficult child has exhibited to me in the past I'll get upset". I didn't say anything but your darn right I'd get upset. Therapuetic mentors are boys in their early 20s, typically college students, no MH counseling experience, and no specialty in domestic violence. And difficult child gets triggered by being confronted with all this by people. That would not be the appropriate person to counsel difficult child or us and not the appropriate setting and I have a problem with this. And I don't want to get slammed by difficult child over everyone knowing his business because PO blabbed it to everyone in difficult child's life. I mean, I'm sitting here thinking difficult child/we needs DV counseling- by a real therapist who specializes in this and their idea is to have his therapeutic mentor talk to difficult child about it?? Yeah, then bash me if I think that's a stupid idea?
  2. buddy

    buddy New Member

    Time to dig dig dig...right? I know those days. Then to organize and get all those thoughts together in a readable form, so much work and exhausting but you can do it! Crazy how far these guys seem from the mission statement/goals.

    Hang tough, this is not forever. Your guy is so blessed to have you.
  3. Liahona

    Liahona Guest

    They are going to wish you hadn't found that website. Now you can go to them and say 'this is what I want! This right here. That this website says you provide!' Good luck getting them to budge on anything.

    Can I join you in a good scream tonight? difficult child 1 has been very distractable and I really feel like it.
  4. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    thank you Buddy. It won't help my difficult child- he'll surely age out before this state comes close to getting things right. But maybe someday I can help one tiny piece of it so future difficult children and their families might be able to get a little something that makes more sense. These people (agencies) don't need more money- they need to be spending the money they have gotten already doing what it was meant for and the people in CSU need to be doing their jobs and local jurisdictions need to stop hiring people who aren't MH profs just because they're cheaper and claiming they're doing therapy. The whole thing disgusts me and I bet my temperature has gone up 10 degrees since I found this website tonight. LOL!

    You snuck in on me, L! Yes- join me- it will take 10,000 parents screaming to the right people before anyone starts to change anything.
  5. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    When I was asking re-entry lady some pointed questions- like does she have LICENSED MH profs on staff and she said no, then she quit answerring my questions, then she said 'they are scrambling around trying to put a program together and get people staffed", and that was after I had already figured out by looking at their website and talking to difficult child about what he'd learned from other boys from this area, that this was a bogus program that had just gotten fed funding for a re-entry program, yet it had always been a diversion program before.
  6. buddy

    buddy New Member

    off topic here, I learn so much from you...
    what is the difference between diversion program and re-entry program?
  7. Liahona

    Liahona Guest

    Ha they have ticked off they wrong mama! That is the last thing an agency wants anyone saying to the people who hand out the money!

    You keep saying that to state reps and federal reps and you'll get things changed.
  8. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Find that funding from where it starts ...and it sounds like you have..and follow it as far as you can into a county...any at this point into VA. Right now I dont much care which county you can follow the bread crumbs because the trail will lead you to players you need to know. The titles will be the same in every county. And if they dont have one of those titles in your county, you can act all shocked and offer to be that title...lol. You have a college degree and seriously, all it takes to be one of those titles is a college degree and X amount of experience which can be volunteer hours. You have volunteered here. LMAO. Im sure you could come up with a few other things...school IEP meetings, girl or boy scoots, library duty.
  9. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    That's my hope, L- and that they get someone to scrutinize these CSU (court services unit) people- all they do now is have someone come in once a year to do a financial audit. That's it. That';s why it's so cliquish and they all cover each other's rear- just like PO will cover super, super covers PO and they both cover re-entry lady- of course she covers them because they are the ones recommending kids to her service.

    Buddy- first let me explain this- a kid is put on probation if he/she starts breaking the law and the judge is trying to keep the kid from getting committed to state Department of Juvenile Justice (juvie prison)- now that isn't the same as going to the local detention center (juvie jail) for a while. Anyway, if a kid is on probation and gets into trouble again, a judge can order a diversion in order to try to prevent a commitment to Department of Juvenile Justice. That diversion could be community service, a few weeks or mos in detention, or this group home where they have to work a program and 'earn' their way out. If the kid does that succesfully, the kid returns home and doesn't get committed to Department of Juvenile Justice. My son has been in Department of Juvenile Justice (juvie prison) twice. I was advocating for transitional services for him, as you know. That diversion program/group home had lost local/state funding but then got approved for fed funding to do a re-entry program for kids coming out of Department of Juvenile Justice incarceration. The website makes it obvious that the 're-entry' program they are giving is the EXACT same thing as the diversion program. So at one point, I asked the lady "if it didn't help keep your kids from going into Department of Juvenile Justice, how the HE!! do you think it's going to help them re-integrate back home and into the community". LOL! I know, I can't help it. It seems so stupid to me. The diversion program doesn't do squat to help a kid transition back ITRW.
  10. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    OMG Janet! What title am I seeking exactly? Are you suggesting I work with a BUNCH of difficult children??? *gulp*

    Let me make sure I'm clear- the website lists fed funding for all kinds of juvie services- each type service falls under a different category and thus, a different fed grant. This group home here falls under grant "A", let's say. The one that listed everything I asked for is grant "C"- they don't have anything falling under grant "C" here, from what I'm being told. However, I wouldn't be shocked if they really do but PO is just trying to scracth re-entry lady's back and help her out by getting the amount of kids in her program so she can get the funding approved for next year- the attny told me that. This is the kind of koi I'm thinking the fed gov needs to know about. Local/state wouldn't do squat about it.

    So let's see- you could have asked for fed grant "C" for $250,000 but instead you asked for fed grant A for 750,000 when the kid had a parent who's never been claimed unfit and both parent and kid want reunification??

    Yep, kind of like them sending difficult child to Department of Juvenile Justice for $100,000/year cost in lieu of Residential Treatment Center (RTC) which I already had lined up and funding was coming from 3 different sources=- none of which were local or Department of Juvenile Justice funding. Makes perfect sense. DUH. And look at how well that solution worked last year.
  11. buddy

    buddy New Member

    dont take this wrong....lol.....

    but I just love you
  12. buddy

    buddy New Member

    I love you too Janet, lmao
  13. DDD

    DDD Well-Known Member

    You can't change the system but you surely can "track the money" for the benefit of your child. The main goal is to get the best option for him and for your family. In Florida I was able to find the Department of Juvenile Justice budget, facility reports from annual inspections etc. You should be able to find the distribution of those particular funds as it is open to public inquiry.

    by the way, when is your Dec appointment. with the attorney you like? DDD
  14. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    The appointment with the attny was on Tues- I posted about it in an earlier thread.

    This fed funding isn't automatic- the local jurisdiction applies for the grant annually. Apparently, this place applied for the long-term re-entry- what I called services under grant "A". I'll have to try to find a paper trail to see if any place around here applied for ssomething under grant "C". If they did, that might be arguement in court as to why PO went to something more extreme for difficult child instead of the less restrictive placement that allowed/promoted reunification with family.

    That's not changing the system , I know.

    However, I still think it's worth letting more people know- higher ups, public, whomever will listen- that some of this isn't playing out as intended. IOW, a 4th anger management program for difficult child doesn't help him transition back into the home and community the way some other things would. The 'other things' really need to be tailored to each individual kid, and not a particular cookie-cutter 'program'. difficult child has to do an anger management program in Department of Juvenile Justice, which he's doing now, in order to 'earn' his way out of incarceration. This is the same thing they required him to do the first time he was in Department of Juvenile Justice. He'd already had one out-patient while on probation, then the one in his first stint, now one in his 2nd stint, but they want me to buy into a 4th one like it will do it if he's in a long-term group home? All that does is throw in something that ties him up in the system until he ages out of it. The reason it's an anger management program in the group home is because that's all they do- which is what they did when they called it a diversion program. Makes sense as a diversion program- doesn't make sense to me to call it a re-entry/transitional program intended to help kids coming out of Department of Juvenile Justice re-integrate back into the real world. To me, that is the evidence/proof that all they did is take a diversion program and slap a title of 're-entry program" on top of it in order to qualify for that fed grant.

    In the simplest terms, each one of the grants- whether for a diversion program, long term re-entry plan, short term re-entry- have different criteria in order to qualify for fed funding. The local jurisdiction has to submit their plan for meeting the criteria for whichever funding they are applying for. BUT apparently, the only verificattion that this criteria is actually carried out ITRW is the local jurisdiction self-reporting what they did and the results/statistics, and a financial audit annually. I think this is where the loophole is. They should have someone actually looking into exactly what the local poeple are doing with this money, in my humble opinion.

    There's a big difference between hiring a behavior counselor to do an anger management program and doing something that helps the kid feel likes he fits in at school, home, community. There is no one checking to see what the person has done. They only check to see that they hired and paid for a behavior counselor. That part is self-reported by the agency suppsoedly providing the service. The fed grant requires the funding go to helping the kid reenter society, if the grant applied for was the re-entry grant.
  15. DDD

    DDD Well-Known Member

    Actually it's more than possible that your local people are not "in the loop" enough to know about that alternate funding source. Most employees have their own niche that is the focus of meeting job requirements. Fingers crossed that a nearby area is already in the program. Sorry I missed your post about the attorney...I'll look for it. DDD
  16. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    And that is another problem- the local csu's are very cliqueish and there isn't enough communictaion and accountability between the state legislation/juvenile committees delegated by state gov, the state level Department of Juvenile Justice agency, and local csu's- which is why I intend to make sure our state legislation gets 'informed' of my 'concerns', too. LOL! Everyone seems to think they can send a newslaetter to local csu people and that will be enough to bring them up to speed. HA- they only want to keep doing what they've always done and work with people they are already used to working with.

    Camparatively speaking- think about Wrightslaw being passed on fed level, then states having to be forced to uphold it, but local sds ignoring it until the state actually does crack down on them. The state doesn't like cracking down on their local people but eventually they wake up and realize they have no choice if they want to keep fed funding coming in.

    ITRW how this plays out:
    Fed gov: this is fed law and states/local sds need to comply
    Sate gov: Well, do something to comply with fed requirements
    Local jurisdiction: that isn't the way we're used to doing things and we really don't want to be dealing with all this; what's the min we can do to get these parents off our back and keep the fed gov from 'interfering' with what we do

    I'm realizing more and more that this is the way it works in agencies other than sds, too.

    I know that sounds cynical about people in local csu but let's faace it, they have already admitted they ordered this for difficult child without even being aware of his committing offenses, that this was his 2nd commitment, they hadn't looked into his file AT ALL, and didn't know squat about his personal or family hx. It's a little hard to meet the criteria set by fed funding for this re-entry plan under those circumstances. Now, I would never be able to prove that in court because they will all lie for each other, but it makes it obvious to me that these are incompetent decisions.

    Other states might keep closer reigns on their local csus- I don't know but would hope so. Some states keep closer reigns on their local dss people than others, so I would assume this would be about the same- it depends on the priorities of the people voted in and the voters in the state, in my humble opinion. It's the governor and legislation in the state that determinies the effectiveness of each state agency, which oversees the local agencies.
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2011
  17. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    I really hope that some of what you do can help someone. I find all that you and difficult child have endured to be sickening. Truly sick enough to make me think of vomiting - it is just so wrong at every step.

    As for help for you and difficult child, it might help for you to go to a domestic violence center and get something set up. you ARE a victim and these people are set up to handle that. I will warn you that many of the therapists will seem young to you. My experience has been good even though the counselor I saw was at most in her early 30s. She also didn't have kids yet, but she did work hard and when she wasn't sure what to do she went and asked for help and did research. I know she asked for help because she asked permission to talk to a couple of tdocs n the community. She didn't give my name to them but she wanted to use some specifics and didn't know f any of them would recognize us in the description so she got permission from me first. I liked that. She asked the 2 people I would have gone to, and one surely would have known who she was talking about because she had been our therapist for a long time previous to an insurance change.

    It cannot hurt to give them a try. Most require indiv therapy before they do group therapy so that the person going into the group has a bit of a basis to start from. difficult child could join you after his release and that might be something that the PO would like because it would be help but not out of his budget. Or you don't even have to let PO know about it. in my opinion you need their help (DV center's) to deal with the emotional abuse heaped upon you and difficult child from the GAL, first PO's, and the entire system. DV help because those people came into your home and validated difficult child's abuse of you by telling him it was just fine and by interfering in your relationship with him.

    Just a thought.

    I do think this website may give valuable info. I hope you are keeping a log of each contact wtih the PO and csu people, etc... It would make a heck of a book, in my opinion.
  18. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    thank you, Susie. I can get DV counseling- I'm not concerned about that. It's that no matter what I think or do or whatever anyone outside the juvie system says, no matter their credentials, the people in the juvie system believe it HAS to be THEIR idea or 'it ain't happening'. I'm sure that sounds like I'm just saying that as a vent and when this koi first started 5 years ago, it was meant as a vent. After that probation officer back then said difficult child wouldn't go to Residential Treatment Center (RTC) because it wasn't her idea, I thought it was just 'her' and her snotty attitude toward me. BUt, I'm hearing the same thing here. difficult child doesn't even 'get to go to ANY therapist' unless they determine he needs to. Yes, I was actually told that by PO's super. Even attny doens't really believe me when I tell her this stuff- I'm hoping she talks to these people enough to finally see this herself. After all, her main job as an attny in this town is to be a GAL in the juvie courts. She can help others better if she wakes up more to what this is really like. The problem of course is that all meetings with the kid and parent are private so no one really hears what is being said. I'll be talking to attny about this, too,, but we are taking one issue at a time. Right now, difficult child's placement moved up to the top of the list when the early release became a possibility.
  19. DDD

    DDD Well-Known Member

    I think I chapped you off, lol, some time ago suggesting that you should address your residual issues from the DV you experienced. Obviously I know we each have to make our own choices but I truly believe that you need someone you can speak freely to about your past and, more importantly probably, your future concerns. Whether it is sooner or later in my humble opinion the anxiety and fears are going to increase and having one on one opportunities to express yourself confidentially should be very therapeutic for you and increase the changes of success once reunification takes place. The CD family is totally awesome but one on one has the value of freedom to share details with a stranger which likely would strengthen your core and eliminate isolationism. As always I am on your side. DDD
  20. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    Therapeutically, what I've been told we need by profs is individual counseling for each of us and intensive family counseling by someone exoerienced in these sort of issues. This is because it's not just me having ptsd and it's not just a family problem, nor is it just difficult child getting into legal trouble. Residential Treatment Center (RTC) was the proposed answer since that is quite extensive for a treatment plan. PLan B was for each of us to have indivdual counseling while difficult child was incarcerated and possible family therapy while he's still in. That plan didn't work either for a variety of reasons.

    I had gotten therapy lined up thru VA in the old jurisdiction for myself when I got this job and moved. I went to one session with her that was scheduled already and just had to say I was getting ready to relocate, so that ended that. Being broke and having to travel on the spur of the moment didn't even make it feasible for me to line something up here right away. Then, admittedly, the PTSD symptoms subsided so I kind of put it on the back burner. But I wouldn't have been able to go on a routine basis anyway with this job.

    I don't know what will end up happening. I do get the feeling that some think if I'd just get therapy for my PTSD, difficult child would have no more problems. I'm sure that isn't true and the MH profs that evaluation'd difficult child before and talked to me individually then and after he was incarcerated don't see it that way either. Mainly because I had no signs of PTSD left from my own personal experiences when difficult child became a difficult child. After a couple of years of all the stuff with him and the juvie system (custody battle, etc), the PTSD returned. Therefore, there is more than one problem going on here contributing to difficult child being a difficult child.

    Anyway, when the release date came up and PO first said difficult child would come straight home with no services, just 30 days house arrest (the same as last year), I flipped and started having symptoms big-time- nightmares, etc. Now, that is PTSD but there's also the fact that we know what happened when that wonderful plan was tried last year. I feel like I'm beating a dead horse, LOL! All I can do is say that I'm not the only person involved (past or present) that thinkks it's nnot just my PTSD alone causing the problem. And I have reason to be concerned and afraid.

    The people in tthe juvie system though- they give their standard cookie-cutter approach- they don't see this as a MH issue for either of us nor do they even acknowledge DV from a youth toward a family member- unless it was a sexual offense from one youth toward a sibling or something. They think a behavior contract should solve everything.