I had a fight with husband over difficult child: Insights and opinions are welcome

SuZir

Well-Known Member
Sending lots of juju difficult child's way for sure. Lots of pressure for one so young. Is the move something where he can earn his way back up ? Is that a pretty common response to a situation like this?

This stint in minors is just for couple of days, after that difficult child will be back to his team. difficult child has had a very bumpy early season in his sport. He had underwhelming national team camp, mostly good pre season with his own team, okayish start of the season and after that he has been in negative spin. That (and his main competitor doing well) has cut his playing time and that has made difficult child try harder and harder and have more pressure. And trying harder simply doesn't work well in his sport, but leads to mistakes that make you more hesitant and to try harder and... difficult child still has the skills, his conditioning is better than ever (of course, there is nothing easier than make 18-19-year-old boy to get faster and stronger than before, mother nature does almost half of the work) but his self-confidence is a problem. He is sent to minors to get playing time and hopefully do well and start to build back his confidence.

This is fairly normal procedure especially when difficult child's home crowd is mad at him so that is adding pressure and his whole team is struggling and making it very difficult for player in difficult child's position to do well. Being sent to minors is a big blow to the ego but it also takes off some pressure and gives an opportunity to get things back together. And difficult child is very young also in his league standards, players in his position are considered young and up-coming till they are closer to mid-twenties. It has been years since someone as young as difficult child last year got that much playing time and did so well. And almost never do kids make smooth transition from juniors to pros without some rough patches. So difficult child having rough time is not surprising, more like something inevitable. What matters is him getting over it and learning (and with many, who have been very successful later that has taken even years.)

But this is a little bit like breaking up with your first love. It happens to almost everyone. Everyone will tell you it is likely. Everyone tells you that you will get over it and find a new love. Still it hurts like hades when it happens and nothing is helping for that.

Since it was such a public error would anyone have given husband a hard time?

It's unlikely anyone would have given husband hard time over difficult child's blunder. Mentioned it and laughed at it for sure, but to be honest, if it hadn't been my kid making an error and being devastated, I would had been simply admiring the veteran who out-smarted a kid and gave him a good lesson. Maybe feeling little bit bad for the kid but thinking that it is a great learning experience for him. There are not many fans of difficult child's team around here and I'm sure most people who follow difficult child's sport and saw the blunder felt like I would had done (if it wasn't difficult child.) It would be different if there would be a question about difficult child's conditioning or his effort or something like that. But an honest error is an honest error.


In your first post I thought about how when there is any crisis in my life I tend to do a fair job and make ok decisions but when things cool off thats when I fall apart and for example my son might really do a terrible job unloading the dishwasher with no sorting the silverware at all (yeah ...huge life altering mistake, right ) that is when I get super frustrated and it is out of proportion to the situation.
Not sure that makes sense ..esp since your issues are certainly much bigger but it seems husband stood up and really committed to being difficult child's dad, stepped up during crisis times and now on an issue that has not much to do with the deep family issues or.his parenting, he cut loose.Of course the truth is probably that there were a number of issues and he made a bad call just like difficult child did!

You may well be on to something here. husband's reactions on difficult child have certainly been out of proportion lately. It can well be residual of all the crisis with difficult child, having to man up and show self-discipline again and again to back up his choice to be difficult child's dad. And now that difficult child seems to have better handle of his own crisis, husband is crumbling. And a more I think of it, more I feel there is something else going on with husband and he is struggling with something. Unfortunately he is not talking about it with me. I will have to work on that after difficult child is again back to his home and husband hopefully more relaxed.
 

SuZir

Well-Known Member
Well, the good news is that husband can still pull his head out of his rear-end and pull himself together on crisis.

difficult child had his game and it certainly didn't help his self-confidence issues. It was absolutely awful to watch. He started great, I started to get hopeful. Then he made a mistake, not a big one even and absolutely crumbled. He was totally useless after that. After the game he was a total wreck. In tears (and he is not a crier normally), devastated, hopeless and so tightly wound I was worried he would go to full blown panic attack or explode.

Yeah, it is only sport and I kept telling that to difficult child and to myself, but for him it is a central point of his existence. The thing he is good at and he has never been struggling with it like now. No idea what happens next. I'm very worried for him but trying to stay strong and positive. And as I said, husband was able to get back to 101 of sport parenting. In times like this parents' job is to support and keep reminding that it is not the end of the world.

But still I think there is really something going on with husband even if he is not telling me what.
 

buddy

New Member
Do they use other training tools like biofeedback or anything? I was reading about athletes (the olympics) using auditory and visual entrainment and Neurofeedback both of which q uses. The light sounds unit is portable and depending on.which areas of the brain need stimulation there are different programs ....targets different brain waves. I now read that the place q goes to for the Neurofeedback is offering it free as part of a research study to help vets with ptsd and anxiety. Wow. I can send links if you're interested ....
 
S

Signorina

Guest
Suzir - I have hestiated to answer on this thread - mainly because my own "2 cents" has not been raised in the responses. And there is safety in numbers! But I feel bad not piping in...so as way of a disclaimer:

I have 3 sons, 2 brothers, 7 nephews (1 niece) and no sisters. My mother was also an only girl. So while I don't have any knowledge of sisterhood - I've had a pretty good window into the world of male relationships. My dad - with whom I was VERY close - was the youngest of 4 boys and he didn't hesitate to guide me in raising my boys. (I should add that my brothers don't get along and I think my dad had many regrets and that's why he was so open with me. My dad was very close to his brothers)

So here goes:

This is between your H and your son. They are both big boys. That's not to say that you shouldn't have an opinion and that you shouldn't try to smooth the road between them on occasion. But it's their relationship. And men have a way of understanding each other - mano-a-mano - if you will. The most important thing my dad taught me - is to not make the mistake of becoming their referee. If you do - they will expect you to be their referee for life. (my dad told it to me regarding my boys relationship when they were little - but it applies here) Their relationship is theirs - and they have to find a way to relate to each other, to understand each other, and to support (and even criticize) each other.

Also, as a wife and a mother of a difficult child - you need to remember that you and your H need to present a united front to your children. Especially your difficult child. Otherwise, they will learn to manipulate the friction between you. Not because they are diabolical - but because it works for them and it takes the heat off of them.

If you son is having issues with his job or his school or his sport - that's between them and him. I remember the first time difficult child got into trouble at school for a bathroom prank. They had thrown wet TP on the ceiling, had gotten caught and then did it AGAIN on the next day. He was 8. I was horrified. Of course, school called to let me know and to tell me that difficult child and his cohorts would be serving indoor recesses and on cleaning duty for a week. I felt like the worst mother in the world. I was sure I was raising a hooligan. And I was sure that the "talking to" I gave him the first time was a motherhood FAIL since he did it again. And my dad calmed me, and advised me- it was a school issues, school was handling it, he was being punished AT SCHOOL and while I should express my displeasure, this issue was between the SCHOOL (who was handling it appropriately) and my misbehaving son.

And he was right. And I got to stay somewhat neutral. I didn't need to be the bad cop or the heavy hand - nor did I need to "poor baby no recess" my errant son. It was not in my immediate realm. And I shouldn't interject myself into that realm unless absolutely necessary.

You know, difficult child never got into trouble at school again. (Until he failed out of college last year.) So I am going to say that dad was right. And I have to say that the few times I have "over responded" have been the times that things have gotten out of hand. I would love to be in control of steering difficult children ship. Or be a co pilot. But - he needs to be in charge of his life and of his relationships. And I need to stay out of those realms. Because when I do get involved, I end up taking some of the ownership away from my son. And he needs to own his life. And his relationships. The good, the bad, the ugly. Same for H. If I try to steer their relationship - I end up taking some responsibility for their relationship. And that's not a good place to be for a wife or a mom.

I hope I am making sense.
 

SuZir

Well-Known Member
Sig, I definitely appreciate your input. It is always good to hear several different point of views and yours certainly makes sense. And to the point I do agree.

husband's and difficult child's relationship is indeed their relationship and it is up to them to sort it out. And I do believe they are able to do it. While they have never been close like husband and easy child and while there is lots of miscommunication and misunderstandings and pure personality differences and disputes between them, they do love each other. It may take time and more I stay out of it the better. But there are certain lines I simply can't just sit and watch them break. And I certainly do not back them up, if they break those lines. And husband did break one of those lines last Friday.

My point of view is based on my experiences (like i think everyone's is.) I have a father who was verbally abusive to me, still is at times in fact. When I was a child and teen and young adult I certainly did hope that my mom would had interfered and I was angry for her for a long time, because she just left me to handle it on my own. Same with one of her husbands who was abusive to us both. I always vowed I would never let anyone to be abusive to my kids. Of course as they say: Man plans, God laughs. Now I have a kid with PTSD because abuse from peers. And neither can me or husband claim we were never abusive to him. But still there are things I don't let anyone to do or say to my kids if I can prevent it. And what husband said last Friday was over that line and something I could never accept. You don't kick your enemy when they are down like that. And certainly not your loved one. If husband wants to discuss with difficult child about things or criticize him, he better choose his timing more wisely. And he also doesn't have any right to try to blame difficult child about choices he (or we) made. difficult child has made (and makes) enough mistakes of his own, he doesn't need to feel responsible of our choices, even if they would be mistakes.

Right now I'm not too worried about difficult child trying to triangulate us. Not because I would think he wouldn't do anything like that (there is a reason why backing each other up has been a big rule between me and husband) but because he is so absorbed to his own struggles that he wouldn't pick up anything odd even if we would be doing nekkid tai chi standing on our heads middle of the town square. I'm quite sure he is not noticing we are having disagreements with husband.

husband also broke few of our family rules. First the parenting rule about sports. We have discussed and strongly agreed long time ago, that we would never be those parents who meddle with coaching as a parent (husband has been an assistant coach of easy child but that is another thing.) Okay, when our boys were really young we gave some tips to coaches how to handle certain issues with them (like the issue with languages. Both of our sons have had two sports that have always been coached with other language than our family's main language, and when they started, they really didn't speak or understand much of that language) and during their sport years there has been few issues we have had to interfere (but never in front of the kids.) And while we do speak about sports at home and even give comments if they ask, we have always kept it as our main job as sport parents to keep balance. We encourage them when they are down and we remind them of how they need to continue working when they are doing well. We try to help them keep perspective. We certainly not are ripping them apart while they are already down! And second the way husband behaved yesterday and day before. We have strongly believed in modelling acceptable behaviour. Eye-rolling and things like that are certainly never been that in our breakfast table. Of course, as I said, difficult child probably didn't even notice. easy child did however.

After difficult child having another disastrous game yesterday husband did pull it together and was more like his normal self. He was encouraging to difficult child, reminding him that wallowing in failures is not productive and that he just has to turn his chin up and try again. And that he is certainly not the only one struggling, it's more like the rule, that 'sophomore' year in pro sports is tough. And that especially players in his position have very rough patches at times when they are young.

The thing that really bothers me (other than difficult child having such a hard time and fear that he may do something stupid because of that) is that it seems very clear to me, that something is going on with husband and he is not sharing. His behaviour just isn't like him at all.
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
I'm checking in late. And I could be way wrong. It's happened before (shock!!!) :)

Is there any chance that even though husband loves difficult child, he is still bothered about his conception and maybe it pops up into his mind at times? I actually find him an incredible man to forgive you and to agree to be the father to difficult child. I don't think most men could have done it, even if they wanted to, without some resentment, if not anger, if not more. Are you sure this is never on his mind anymore at certain times when he is short with difficult child? On top of it, difficult child is difficult and easy child (his bio. son) is easier.

I don't know him or your situation, of course. I just wonder if he ever thinks about it, especially when things are going wrong. Is difficult child aware of the situation? If so, I am wondering if he gets angry about it sometimes and that it maybe also contributes to his difficult child-ism. Of course, doesn't take much to make a difficult child pout...
 

SuZir

Well-Known Member
MidwestMom: It is of course possible that husband is still bothered about how difficult child was conceived. In fact I'm sure he is in some level and it is likely to come up again at times and bother him. To stay with us was a tough choice for him at the time. To be honest, I didn't know who was a father while I was pregnant. I just desperately hoped and made myself to believe it would be husband. I also kept telling myself he was a father after difficult child was born (but in the deep inside I knew though.) But difficult child comes after my family. He doesn't look much like his biological father and he is not looking that different from husband that it would be that obvious. I didn't told husband. difficult child was a very high maintenance baby and I didn't want to deal with him alone. And I tried to tell myself he was likely husband's anyway. difficult child got sick and husband found out a truth (blood type was a give away.) It was very tough time for him. We were married so he was a legal father, he loved difficult child, he still loved me, difficult child was seriously ill and there was even a chance of him dying (not that big but it felt big at the time), so it really was impossible situation for him. First he decided to stick with us until difficult child would be out of hospital and later he just decided to stick with us altogether. We made a deal and we have both kept that. His mom has never let him forget what a error that was. Neither has he let difficult child or easy child unaware about the matter. So yes, difficult child does know. Only involved and not knowing about it is the biological father of the difficult child.

As I said I'm sure it is still complicated to husband at times. And it does complicate the relationship between difficult child and husband (and to be honest, I kind of hope difficult child never wants to get in touch with his biological father, that would be a mess.) But husband has always committed to being a good dad for difficult child too. Yes, he does like easy child more (but to be honest, who wouldn't?) and may favour him, but that could easily be simply about the personalities. And he has always tried with difficult child too and he does love the kid. I don't really know what difficult child thinks about it. He seems to think his dad is his dad and isn't that interested about the matter. Of course it doesn't make things easier for him (we have had some very awkward family dinners and holidays when mother in law takes one too many and gives it a go... It just makes such a lovely conversation topic with Christmas pudding...) but I don't think it has much to do with his behaviour. Yes, he has always been more my boy while husband has been more active with easy child, but it is mostly because I have always had a better handle of difficult child.

Buddy: Biofeedback is interesting. Around here it is not much used by athletes. There has been some experiments but I think it is mostly used for things like migraine and incontinence etc. There are some mental coaches and sport psychologists who do use it, but many of our athletes are old-fashioned and not that eager to even mental coaching. And difficult child sport tends to be little 'macho.' They do use mental coaches (like difficult child's, who by the way continues to be godsend) when they need to, but they like to keep their mouths shut about it. With difficult child they are trying the old-fashioned and time-tested methods first, like letting him play it out of him (that they are trying now. By the way, he did very well in his game today, so that is positive) and if that doesn't help, they will probably go with 'starting season over', which means first some very basic and easy training that he can't get wrong and easing him back to it like it would really be a start of the new season. If nothing like that works, they are probably more ready to try something different. And what that is depends probably a lot about mental coach's opinions.
 

DammitJanet

Well-Known Member
You do have a very complicated situation however it doesnt have to be the bio thing. Many people have been in this situation and adore the child no matter what. We arent 100% sure Keyana is Cory's child. I mentioned yesterday that the next time we got her he should do an OTC paternity test and he said what good would it do mom, she is mine no matter what the test says.

We had to put Jamie and his wife in their place when Keyana was a year old because they kept talking about how Keyana "might be" Cory's daughter. This was after we had kept her most of entire first year of life and had bonded with her so close that her first word was Papa. Dada was second. She was ours no matter what. At times there is something stronger than blood.

Tony loved my 2 year old son from the moment he met that naked, blond, blue eyed little boy who jumped into his lap and promptly peed all over him...lol. He has been his father ever since. Not that sperm donor who has never spent any time or money on him in almost 30 years.

As far as your son and his sport. I have no idea what type it is but Im imagining it is something like our baseball here. We very rarely have someone who is signed straight out of HS or even college into the Major Leagues but normally you go to college and then you go up through what we call here farm teams. There is A, AA and then AAA which is right before you go to Major League. Plenty of times a player from the Majors will end up down in AAA because of an injury or some other such thing.

Im pretty sure this happens in other sports like hockey or soccer. We dont do it with NFL football except we do have college ball but we really dont have farm teams.
 

SuZir

Well-Known Member
Janet, my husband also loves difficult child and considers him his own, there is no question about that. I'm sure background factors bother him at times a little, but I also think that it's the other things he has more problem with difficult child. difficult child is a difficult kid and very different personality than husband. husband is very social, people and task orientated, pragmatic thinker, laid-back, friendly and 'natural leader.' He works in marketing and sales and that is perfect job for him. easy child is much like him. difficult child is anything but. Neither of them for example make friends with people like difficult child (I can't think of any of their friends being even close to similar to difficult child in personality type, if you don't count me.) difficult child is introvert, much more concerned about his inner world than outside world, socially awkward, independent, very high-strung and intense, ideological and deep thinker. difficult child often tries to come off more like husband or easy child (he seems to think that is what he should be) but that ends up into total failure every time. He does socially better then he doesn't try that but is who he is, but he doesn't seem to notice that. I'm more like difficult child but much better actor than him and I do often play a role of much more social and people person than I really am. husband simply doesn't get difficult child very well. In fact difficult child seems to understand his dad much better than other way around. But of course difficult child is still extremely immature and is unable or unwilling to use that ability to understand to help their relationship in this point. So I do think most of friction between husband and difficult child are about their personalities and about all the problems difficult child has caused and causes, not so much about husband not being a biological father. But I do get that it probably does come to husband's mind how our problem child doesn't have his genes and how much better kid the one with his genes is.

European sports system has some differences to American. Biggest is, that we don't really have college sports. Or school sports in general. And every country have slightly different systems and there is no real European wide leagues, but every country has their own (there are tournament and cup type things though between teams from different leagues.) Also the level system is different. In Europe teams can usually move between levels. Worst teams of the league can be relegates to lower level league and best teams from lower level can rise to the upper league. For example in difficult child's sport in this country there is something like seven official adult levels and teams can move between the levels. Of course no lowest level team ever rises to highest level, but at times team move between two highest level and even more often between second and third level. Two highest levels are pro series (though many players in second level do take college classes in side, because while they can live modestly with their sport salary, they don't get enough to save for after career use) and in lower ones most of the players either have a day job or are full time students. There really isn't official farm teams that much, but teams do co-operate. Typical situation is, that team like difficult child's team has contract players half more than they need. Few are rotation players who are healthy scratch and cover injuries, but many are 'long term projects' and the team loans the player to lower level team for few months or for whole season to develop. And then there are short loans (usually just few games or a week or two) to build up after injuries, to get playing time or gain back the confidence, like what happened to difficult child. He was loaned out for the two game stint.

Most young players in difficult child sport go to second level after or during their last junior years. After two or three years in second level they may get to highest level. Handful of players go to highest level straight from the juniors every year and those usually when they are still juniors. Youngest may be even 17 when they start at highest level and there and handful of 18-year-olds. Most who have a chance to become pros are already sharing their time between junior team and second level men's team when they are 18 or 19, more talented ones doing mainly second level men's team. There are many rookies in difficult child's team, who are now 21-24 and have played till now in the second level and are now ready to the highest level. In difficult child sport also position influences. There are positions there players tend to develop quicker and have much earlier career peak and then there are positions that take a longer development time and have much later career peak (and often longer career all together.) difficult child is playing the position with longest development path and latest career peak and before this stint to second level he was a real abnormality, because he didn't have even one game in second level. All the other players in the league playing the position had them, most at least two years worth, many several more years, because as I said, their development tends to take much longer than players in other positions. difficult child has been very lucky to get to the highest level team so early, but of course that gives him also more pressure and more exposure to his puppy mistakes. But he does dream on playing in even higher level leagues so he better learn to live with those things.
 
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DammitJanet

Well-Known Member
Yeah....there are major differences between the US and everywhere else. I watch the olympics and am awed by somethings because there are countries that screen small kids for things like swimming, diving and gymnastics and they take them from their homes at very young ages and that is what they are trained for 24/7/365. The governments pay for it.

That is unheard of here. Our country doesnt pay to develop our athletes. Parents go broke sending little kids to classes. In fact in a year or so...maybe even this year I plan to start Kenzie in gymnastics. I dont think she will be an Olympian but she is very active so I think tumbling classes will do her good. I had Keyana in dance.
 

SuZir

Well-Known Member
Yeah....there are major differences between the US and everywhere else. I watch the olympics and am awed by somethings because there are countries that screen small kids for things like swimming, diving and gymnastics and they take them from their homes at very young ages and that is what they are trained for 24/7/365. The governments pay for it.

That is not common in Europe either. And some of those systems are simply brutal and I certainly wouldn't want my kids to be part. There are some national programs for older kids in different countries. For example there is a ski jumping boarding school (for High School age students) in Austria. In football (I decline to call it soccer ;)) major teams have their academies for even young kids, though often the whole family moves, but with older kids they do billet families (but I think there is similar system in hockey in Canada.)

In my country government helps sports mostly with infrastructure. Towns build lots of football fields and halls, ice rinks and halls, track and field fields, swimming halls, halls for basketball, volleyball and all other kinds of inside games, cross country skiing and jogging routes with lights etc. Many of them are either free or cheap to use (for example ticket to swimming hall tends to cost around five dollars for working adults, half of that for retired, disabled, unemployed, students and older kids. Kids under ten or eight go free. Ticket to water aerobics is dollar or two more.) Idea is of course to keep people moving for health reasons. And because studies show that kids who do sports are more likely to exercise also as an adult kid sports are also supported by government. There is also some support for top athletes, but not so much. They are mainly financed with sponsorships (for example my difficult child's team gets only little bit over the third of their income from tickets etc. most are from sponsorship deals and business sales and broadcasting rights money.)

Still kids sports are also largely paid by parents and some sports are much more expensive than others. For example two years ago easy child was still doing three different sports. If not counting gas, I think we spent around 5000 dollars for his sport A, 700 dollars to sport B and 200 dollars to sport C. And quite a lot of 'voluntary' work hours up to that. In all of those he was at a time in the level that could had made it possible to get to the highest level in that sport as an adult (though in sport B there really isn't many pros even in the highest level, but sport A and C are pro sports in the highest level.) But the expenses are just so different in different sports. And to be honest, we have been lucky with our kids with sport A, especially with difficult child, because from early on he was accepted to national development programs and got lots of sport federation paid camps and help. For example four years ago difficult child was sport federation paid one week camp with visiting top coach. Seven days, upkeep, tuition etc. paid. We gave him 20 dollars for candy money. The visiting coach had right after that a three day parent paid weekend camp for those who didn't qualify to federation camp, but were willing to pay. It was almost thousand dollars per kid.

Of course those were the most expensive years with our kids. In our kids sport the most expensive time tends to be when kids are 16 and seventeen, but we really lucked out and both of our kids got the deals with their junior teams' 'parent' teams (those highest level men's teams that have their own partly separate junior organisations) that made these years almost free to us. When kids were smaller, the costs were much less. I think that even the sport A was less than a grand a year when they were under twelve and maybe 500 dollars a year when they started. And even for older kids there would be much cheaper options also in sport A, but they are recreational, not aiming to the top.

Our kids first sport when they were very little was gymnastics too. That I think was around 50-100 dollars a year. Both started when they were 3 and difficult child continued till he was 9 and easy child opted to his sport B when he was 7.
 
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