I have elected to tell my son to get treatment and be sober before we talk again.

kennedyland

New Member
You're right, Nancy. I'm over-thinking his response to my action. This morning at an ALANON meeting just as we were breaking into small groups, a woman came up to me and said, "Do you remember So-And-So from last week's meeting?" I said I did even though I didn't since I was trying to be polite. "Well, she wanted me to let you know here son committed suicide this week." Then she walked to her small group. Naturally I was shocked. Also, why did she want me to know his? That haunted me for the rest of the day. That was such a random act of gossip. Was this a piece of information? A warning? It was creepy.
 

kennedyland

New Member
An important lesson. For all of its discipline, bravery, and drawing-a-line-in-the-sand qualities that my choice not to talk with my 28 year old son until he gets treatment, it doesn't work if only one individual takes that route. Since along with my wife (his stepmother) I was the only one electing not to talk with my son, it has accomplished little to nothing. With his mother (my ex) and his sister (my daughter) continuing to enable him, it has fallen through. I'm certain something like that can work, however it must be a group effort. Without everyone on the same page, it only creates more mud on the road. I had a good conversation with my daughter this evening and she made some excellent points. I can't "win" and he has simply continued down his path. I will call my son tomorrow and end this silence. I'm going to set some boundaries, and learn to live my own life with him doing what he feels he needs to do with his life. Again, one person taking a stand while the rest of the community, or in my case, family does not go along with that decision is ineffective. Lesson learned -before you take radical action, make sure your not the only one standing in the field when the shots are fired.
 

Calamity Jane

Well-Known Member
K,
I disagree, and it's just my opinion, please don't take this the wrong way.

IF the underlying reason you choose to decline contact with your son if he continues to use drugs is because declining that contact keeps you and your wife sane and away from the chaos and frustration that dealing with his issues has affected you, then you did the right thing. IF you declined to have contact with him to force his hand in some way, or if your expectation was that your daughter, etc. would support you, and your son would miraculously have an epiphany and change his life because he would choose to want Dad in his life more than he wants his lifestyle, then you set yourself up for failure.
You never really lost contact anyway; you never said you didn't love him, or want the best for him. You texted him loving, encouraging messages and you got vile responses in return. You didn't make it about control. You set a boundary because having his lifestyle consume you was simply going to ruin the both of you and your wife as well. I'm sure you didn't expect the rest of your family to rally 'round you suddenly and support your choice. They think they are doing the best for your son by enabling him - I think they just think they can keep him alive that way and they don't see any harm in it. They must think that he is too weak to change, and they don't want to turn their back on him. It's natural.
At the end of the day, you can implore that he get help, but if he chooses not to, you still have to weigh the pros and cons of continued contact with him if he doesn't get help. The drugs are his only concern - they are his God right now, and he will put that compulsion above anyone and everyone until he is either forced to change by incarceration, or if he is inclined to seek help on his own, or worse - if he loses his life to his addiction.
FWIW, I think you're a brave Dad, and I admire your strength.
 

Nancy

Well-Known Member
CJ you read my mind. I actually read this post very early this morning and by the time Igot here to ppst you already said exactly what I was going to.

K I had to cut off contact with my dad many years ago because of his alcohol abuse. I did it for me. I had no disallusions that he would stop drinking because of that. We had no contact for ten years until his behavior improved and I was able to be around him. He still drank but it was not destructive the way it once was in front of me. On the other hand, we had to kick our daughter out of our home because of her use. But we never stopped communicating with her. We did what we needed to do for our physical and mental health, not because it would force her to treatment.

I think you should maintain contact with your son as long as it does not interfere with your quality of life or with your relationship with your wife. Enabling is quite different than communication.

I hope it goes well when you contact him. Let us know.
 

kennedyland

New Member
Excellent points of view. I have yet to contact him. I didn't do the knee-jerk reaction of calling him up last night after I talked to his sister. I wanted to give myself time to think about it. Now that I've slept in it and given myself some distance I've decided what I want to do. First of all, I'll open the door, but I'm not going to hold his hand and let things slide. He owes me and my wife a few apologies for his hateful text messages. Also, I'm not going over to his apartment and giving him rides if we get together. He can take the bus. He can also pay for his own meals. If he comes over to my house he has to wear clean clothing, be showered, and not stoned. There is a wedding this summer in Michigan and he'll have to find a way to get there and pay for his own ticket and hotel. No free ride. His birthday is on Saturday (he'll be 29). I sent him a card with a note saying his choices are up to him and my choices are up to me. Frankly, I don't think this will go well, but I don't really care. My life, my rules.
 

Nancy

Well-Known Member
You hit the nail on the head. Maintain a relationship while setting appropriate boundaries you can live with. One thing my husband has told me that really helping in coming to terms with our difficult child's drinking is this: there are many many people walking around who have a drinking and even a drug problem. Yet they maintain jobs and almost normal day to day activities. Most will never enter treatment and they will continue sliding along. My dad is a good example of this. He was a serious alcoholic all his life and his drinking caused chaos in our lives. He worked all his life and provided for his family. I would never want to have his existence but it was his and I could either have a relationship with him or not, he wasn't going to change either way. Your daughter seems to have accepted this.
 

kennedyland

New Member
I called him and left a message. He didn't/wouldn't respond. Yesterday was his birthday (29 years old) so I took a gift and card over to his house. He wasn't home so I left the gift in his mailbox. No response. My daughter, for her part, has unfriended my wife on Facebook. Years ago, when the kids were in middle school, we lived just four blocks from my ex. We found a house about three miles away and decided to move there. Well, the kids (and my ex) acted like we were moving to another country. It was all sadness and pouting. Although we bought a house big enough for each of them to have their own room, they never moved in with us although I had 50/50 joint custody. Now that they are 29 and 32 it's like deja vu. We're moving to the west coast for our retirement. Once again the act like we are abandoning them. I should point out that my daughter lives over 1,000 miles from here. They are blaming my wife (their stepmom) for the move. My son said I'm being "weak" among other more colorful descriptions of who and what I am. He also called my wife the "b" word. When my daughter called the other night and my wife answered she didn't say hello. She just said, "Is my dad there?" and wouldn't engage in a conversation. Wow, after all these years it is finally dawning on me that I am the father of two very spoiled children. Life sure is funny.
 

trinityroyal

Well-Known Member
Very late to this thread. Welcome Kennedyland. You've received some great advice from some of our very wise members.

My take is this:
You've taken a stand. It's a very difficult thing to do, especially if you're the first one in your family who's ever stood up to your son. If you back down now, it will be MUCH harder to take a similar stand later. You will teach your son that, if he escalates far enough you too will back down. That's not a lesson you want to teach. You need to be true to yourself. Your daughter and other family members may come around, or they may not. But you're doing what's best for you and your wife.

I come from a family riddled with mental illness, and some very desctructive behaviour patterns. For my own self-preservation, I had to cut ties with the lot of them several years ago. I have had minimal contact with them since then, and my life is the better for it. Those family members are pushing hard for a reconciliation these days, telling me that I should "put the past behind me". What that tells me is that nothing has changed, and I would be walking right back into the dragon's lair I walked out of all those years ago. So, I hold my ground. And I like it up here on this patch of ground, where I have a clear view of the chaos I left behind me, and the green pastures I'm standing in these days.

Hang in there.
Trinity
 

kennedyland

New Member
Well, backing down isn't an option. What I've done, by saying I'll talk to him, is throw the ball in his court and he's got a lot of dues to pay before things will ever be "normal". He needs to take responsibility for his own finances - something that won't happen because his mother caves in to his needs. He needs to apologize for the vile text messages he's sent and the language of a 12 year old spoiled little boy. Frankly, I doubt I will be hearing from him before I move away in five and a half weeks. While I called and left a message, and delivered a gift for his birthday,(two actions that have received no response) I'm done with indicating that I want to talk with him. I'm not apologizing for my position, and I'm not sorry for what I've been doing. I will not get sucked into an argument with him. I'll stay positive, I'll say I care (and I really do), and I'll hope he does something about all of this. I doubt things will change. He loves his drugs. He has never apologized for his choices. I can't take care of him. I can only take care of myself. It's really too bad. The rich, full life he could have is within his reach, but he doesn't want it. One irony is the fact that if I hadn't taken this position, I may not have heard from him in all this time anyway. He rarely responded to messages, and only called if he wanted something. What has changed is my approach to this whole thing. I said I'd talk to him to make peace with my daughter because she is pregnant. His lack of response is an indication that it's a lot of the same-old, same-old. At least I'm not sitting around stressed about all of this. I'm moving on.
 

toughlovin

Well-Known Member
I have been thinking about your situation because it brings back memories of my own history. I was 23 when my parents got divorced after 38 years of marriage. Their divorce shook me to the core and had a much bigger impact than my father expected or understood. My relationship with him was very very strained for many years and for years I would have nothing to do with his 2nd wife. I did eventually come to some resolution and actually became very fond of his wife and made it clear to her that our issues really had nothing to do with her and everything to do with the issues in the divorce.

So my sense from your posts and your comments about your kids feeling abandoned by you and their reaction to your wife is that there are real unresolved issues around your divorce. My suggestion to you is to try and open up a dialog about this at least with your daughter and then be ready to just listen to how she feels about it. I think often parents really discount what the impact of divorce is on a child. I know the big problem with my dad was he didnt really want to hear how we felt, but rather just wanted us to accept his new life and yet we had some real resentments about how he handled some things in the divorce.

You may at some point need to have a similar conversation with your son but it may be impossible while he is using drugs.

Hope this helps,

*TL
 

kennedyland

New Member
Thanks for your suggestions. Let me clarify a few things. I didn't leave my first wife. She left me for a man she worked with. We were traveling in France as two families - my wife, and kids, and his wife and kids, and it became crystal clear to me, that they were more than just colleagues at work. I confronted her about it and she wouldn't talk to me about any of it (sex had not happened between us for months). I confronted him and he denied it. I though I was wrong and I was going crazy with my "assumptions". Yes, I'd overheard them say, "I love you" to each other. I assumed I misunderstood what was said. Yes, I'd caught them touching each other. I assumed I needed glasses. Yes, at one point, during dinner, his foot actually went up my leg. (I looked him in the eye at that point and said, "Try again, wrong leg." )The situation was tense to say the least. When he and his family left France after three weeks, we were scheduled to stay for two more. My (then) wife wouldn't come out of the bedroom. I went in and actually said in my best John Wayne voice, "This country aint' big enough for the two of us. You have to leave." (At that point the whole thing was becoming so absurd that I was starting to make jokes about it. What else could I do? I thought I was insane.) Anyway, she came out of the bedroom and said, "I'm leaving because you have been mean to me." Of course she ignored the fact that she had been having an open affair right in front of me, had kicked me, sworn at me, refused to talk to me, and thrown things at me. But, yes, I was rather upset with her.

In the end, two weeks later, when I got back to the USA, she told me she was in love with him and that it was over. She also said she married me to get "even" with her mother, that she'd never loved me for the entire 20 years of our marriage, and once her mother died, she didn't have any reason to remain married.

So the divorce nonsense happened. We'd saved most of our money in stocks and securities that her wealthy father had bought as gifts for us. When he learned that my name wasn't on the stock certificates, he said the documents needed to be changed. However, she said it wasn't necessary since we would "always be together, so it was a waste of time." This resulted in her getting 90% of the assets and me getting 10% but being responsible for 50% of the expenses for the kids. (To the women out there........does this sound familiar? Same situation, roles reversed. Rather than the man getting most of the assets, the women got them.)

Subsequently, her father died and left her over a million dollars. I got nothing, but I didn't expect anything. The thing is, my daughters wedding cost over $25,000. I worked extra hours to pay $5,000. She just wrote a check. My daughter went to a school where the tuition was $25,000 a year. I worked to pay $4,000 a year, my ex just wrote a check.

She has always given the kids everything they wanted. I can't afford to do that. I'm the bad guy. She's the shining star. Whenever I've brought up issues between their mother and myself they both respond with "I don't want to talk about it." It's like they were taught to respond that way.

Years ago I was asked to pay 50% of the taxes that my son owed the government for stocks and securities his grandfather (my ex's dad) gave to him. I paid over $1,000 until my attorney said I was not responsible for the taxes of another person whether they were my child or not. That was 20 years ago. About 5 month ago I asked my son about those assets. He didn't know anything about them. His mother said I was mistaken, that there was no "trust fund". Well, my question is simple - If they didn't exist, then what was I paying taxes for? And if they DO exist, they must be worth a lot of money by now! OR as I suspect, she forged his signature on the stock certificates, and spent the money. I believe that is a felony.

In any case, talking to my kids about the divorce that happened 20 years ago seems a little after the fact. What do you think?
 

toughlovin

Well-Known Member
What a terrible time that must have been for you.... and your ex certainly sounds like a piece of work and who knows what she has been telling the kids all these years. My sense is you should not talk to them about the divorce per se but more about why they feel you abandoned them... what is that really about. I really doubt it is about you moving across the country now. I think my suggestion would be to get together with your daughter and say I hear you (or your brother) say I am abandoing you (or him). What is that really about? Are there questions you have about the divorce that have not been answered? And then just be prepared to listen to what they say and what they are feeling. If they really do not want to talk about it then fine, dont push it but just say that is fine but if you ever do I am willing.

It is a tough topic for sure...but just being willing to listen can go a long way.

*TL
 

kennedyland

New Member
A bit of good news, my daughter called my wife (her stepmom) yesterday for Mother's Day. They had a good conversation. With all that has happened in the past few weeks, we weren't expecting either her or her brother to call, but she stepped up to the plate and broke some silence. He, of course, didn't call, but it's the one-step-at-a-time victories that must be celebrated.
 

kennedyland

New Member
Wonderful News - My son just called. He's going into a treatment program in Saturday. He and I are getting together on Wednesday. I told him to call me anytime and that I've missed him (I have) I love him (I do) and to just forget about all those stupid text messages he sent. WOW. I'm not going to take any credit for this, because in the end, it's his journey. It's only a first step, I'm very aware of that, BUT it's a step I've been waiting for him to take for 13 years! Now he can call me any time, any day, and I'll be there to encourage him.......not to do it for him......but to encourage. I'm on Cloud 9! (That's a good cloud to be on because he's been on Cloud 420 for far too long!)
 
Top