I just want to tell you what a terrible mother i am - long

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by therese005us, Jul 25, 2009.

  1. therese005us

    therese005us New Member

    I just want to tell you all what a terrible mother I am.
    But I had a terrible day to match it.
    It began with daughter waking up VERY early, around 5.30am, pale as a ghost, and ready to vomit. Yes, she had caught the dreaded bug which I had Thursday and Friday this week. Not good. She was due at her first class at 7.30am. So, terrible mother had to tell her, that she had to go. Reason? She has 3 exams next weekend, and so every class is valuable and necessary. Poor little lass, put on a brave face and carried her bucket in the car!
    Our German student wasn’t quite sure what to make of it. I know she has problems with extreme nervousness, and has already said that she dreads being around sick people (Hope she can cope when I have severe asthma attacks and am carted off in the ambulance!)
    I dreaded getting DS19 up (he’s my challenge at the moment); he was surly to begin with! I asked him to water the cows – now this involves filling 20Litre containers and taking them on a trolley to fill up a bath and separate contained. It’s one of the few simple tasks I ask him to do. It’s about what I would have expected daughter to do at age 8. However, it is still a challenge for him, to remember to turn off the water, or place the hose so it won’t make a puddle/mud etc. I’m not sure sometimes if it’s a challenge because of the Schitzophrenia; ODD, ADHD; Pervasisve ??? or other? I can’t remember what all labels we were given when he was around 15, I must get the letter out sometime. However, it could just be laziness too. It’s all about what he thinks is enough, and the number of excuses he can think up. I say, it takes 8 x 20l for the bath and 4 x 20 litres for the other container. “oh, that’ll be enough”; but he doesn’t no nor care how much 11 cows will drink – I do. I’m the one setting the task. It’s honestly not a hard job, compared to what daughter has to do – she feeds the birds, and waters them; feeds and waters the guinea pigs, including replacing hay in the cage from time to time; feeds and waters the cats; feeds and waters her horse and at present has to administer a needle and antibiotic spray as she’s injured; milks the cow; feeds the goats and sometimes has to milk a goat – EVERY DAY! And she’s just 12! Now, she’s been doing much more than this over the years, since she’s six. I’m not saying this to say, she’s better than him, just to explain, that I couldn’t give him this many tasks to do. He has to water the cows, or at least fill the water containers, and then leave full ones for us to administer later, and bring in wood, and feed and water the dogs. We have to check on these tasks daily. Often and often he will say, that’s enough wood – but it isn’t and one of us has to follow behind (usually me, when I want to cook dinner) and go out searching for the wood, or else feed/water the dogs after we’ve got home from a late class.
    You will remember that the other day I tried the tack of going behind and doing his chores, just as we’re ready to take him to work. It worked for a couple days.
    Anyway, back to today. I had the same story – that’ll be enough. It wasn’t.
    He wanted to come to town with us so he could go to his friend’s house – that was fine – but he knows I won’t allow him to go as early as we get to town – which is 7.30am as it’s too early to call on them. I also insist on phoning ahead. So, before we left I tried to ring, but there was no answer – it was early, so when he queried why I didn’t ring all the mobile numbers, I just truthfully answered, it’s too early to be bothering people, we’ll ring when we get to town. I tried several times when we arrived, but to no avail. I refused to allow him to go and check on foot. I consider it bad manners to go (1) too early or (2) before calling ahead. I suggested he think about what to do if his friend wasn’t available, like maybe going to see a movie. “how will I know what movie is on?” “Well, I’ll take you to the cinema (which is close to the dance hall) and you can see” How will I know what time?” well, you can see when I drop you off” “What if it isn’t on straightaway?” “You can wait”. It was such hard work! I’m sure he was deliberately being oblique – is this normal/abnormal for schizophrenia? I made other suggestions, like having a look around the shopping center, anything.
    Dropped daughter off and then told DS I would be taking our student to her friend’s place now and he could wait on me to come back. He wanted to come. So, when we arrived, I asked him to wait in the car and went inside. I took a little longer than I thought. When I got back in, I apologized – he grunted –“ yeah”. Did you ring Sharon yet? I told him to ring himself, which he reluctantly did and there was no answer. I again refused just to take him there. We were just coming out of the street of my friend…. It was getting tenser. He was REALLY annoying me now…. I suggested again, I could drop him off in Ipswich to look at the mall, or go to a movie – or Riverlink… another big shopping centre… he wasn’t interested. Look, I’m not taking you around everywhere with me this morning …
    Then, I don’t know which came first anymore, but it was HORRIBLE – I just said to him, look, just get out of the car and I stopped the car. Just get out, you’re really annoying me, get out, I said. He just kept saying no, and I just kept telling him to get out, and if he was lucky, I’d come back in half an hour. He refused to get out, so I opened his door and told him he had to get out of my car. He kept saying no, I said I’d ring the police and he said go ahead, you need help. Guess I do,, I couldn’t get him out of my car! In the end, I was screaming at him, to get out, right now. He wouldn’t I told him you never do anything I ask you to, get out! And then I slapped his face, and said get out and he did. (it was actually, the tiniest slap like you’d give a 2 year old) but I’m so ashamed of my behaviour. I’m really sorry indeed that I screamed at him. I don’t know how to make him do what I want him to do – he is so defiant and surly. I can’t handle him.
    I asked him to wait while we all finished dinner the other night he said he didn’t want to, and wasn’t going to. He got up and left – like I’m just a hotel or something and didn’t even say goodnight to anyone; or offer to do the dishes. Yet a couple weeks ago, he was an angel child, helpful and compliant. I hardly ask him to do anything, partly because it’s such a challenge for him/me. I hate confrontations all the time.
    Do you think his medication is wearing in too well? He’s on 37.5mg respiradone consta? (needle bi weekly) as I’m sure this behavior/I don’t know if you can call it a meltdown, was prevalent only about 3 or 4 weeks ago.
    Anyway, I went on into Ipswich, especially since daughter had called to say she couldn’t stay for class as she was vomiting and not able to stand up.
    Around an hour and half later, I messaged him to see where he was and he had walked to the nearest shopping centre and gone to a bottle shop (for alcohol) and was planning on going to the pub. It was only about 10.30am by now! I told him that if he went to the pub, he’d have to walk to Ipswich to walk it off. He messaged back, that would be too far to walk, he’d stay at the pub till 2pm when I picked him up, he needed a drink after the long walk he’d had and had nothing else to do. He sent another message apologizing. I didn’t feel warm and fuzzy towards him, knowing he planned on drinking for several hours. I went back for him around 2pm. He aplogised again and I said if he still had a drink left, he could leave it in the fridge at home. He said he’d drunk all of it, outside the bottle shop, in broad daylight (in the middle of the morning) which I reminded him was against the law – his response, ‘oh well!) I smelt like a brewery.
    I took him home and told him he had to mow the lawn. He said he didn’t feel like it. “tough,” says I, and you can bring wood in as well. It’s not my fault you don’t feel well now, is it? My ex came and started the mower for him… another challenge, because we had to keep reminding him to do a thorough job. “I don’t feel like it” I won’t, were phrases we heard over and over. My ex has zero tolerance of DS, and has had about that tolerance since we fostered him from age 7. They never did connect. He ended up mowing most of the yard himself. I asked him to do the water, and was told the cows had enough, and asked for more wood to cook dinner, told I had enough, he wasn’t doing anymore, he didn’t feel like it. So, when ex went home I decided, I didn’t feel like cooking his dinner, or inviting him for dinner and went ahead and cooked a nice aroma filling the air steak and some chips to go with it. When he came up for water for himself, he said how nice it smelled. “Yes, we’re going to have a nice dinner, we are” I said. And we didn’t invite him. Much later he came up to make a sandwich and I asked him to clean up after himself, which he had to be reminded off when he’d finished making his sandwihch. And that’s where we’re at. He’s gone back to his room (his own caravan near the house) just having had a sandwich for dinner. I reminded him to feed the dogs (daughter has already watered them) and I doubt that’s done either.
    I’m awake alone, as the others have gone to bed already. Feeling miserable, and fat since I ate a whole bar of chocolate without sharing any, to myself.
    I don’t like being a mean mommy. But tonight, I feel like the worst mommy, because don’t know how to keep DS from being so full of attitude and self absorption. At this rate he’ll never be able to hold down a normal job because he doesn’t want to finish a task he doesn’t feel like doing, no matter what the task. It’s “Oh, I’ve had enough of that, I’ll come back to it later “(which of course, he doesn’t’. ) Or, “that’s enough of that, I don’t want to do it anymore”. In normal jobs, that wouldn’t be tolerated.
    So, having had my vent, I hope I’m allowed to post this long whinge.
    Any advice? Is it worth mentioning to the therapist (does that mean treating doctor) to see if his medications need increasing, or is it all my fault? What can I do then?
  2. Marguerite

    Marguerite Active Member

    Keep a diary of it all, Trish, but honestly - next time, I would insist he stays at home. If he's going to head into town just in case someone he wants to visit might be home - forget it. Not if that is the result. It's called "planning ahead" and he should have set it up the day before. I'm with you - you don't drop in 'on spec' especially if you're a difficult child.

    And going to the pub to get plastered, from 10.30 am? Only on Cup day, if then! And it's not November yet...

    What you describe does sound consistent with Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD), especially the difficulty planning and getting all the tasks done. Would he follow a written list? That is what we had to do for difficult child 1, especially when he had the voluteer job at the zoo. He nearly lost that job first day (even though they didn't have to pay him) because he failed to listen to instructions about keeping th hose safe from the Major Mitchell cockatoo, which followed behind him as he hosed out te walk-through aviary. difficult child 1 hosed the place out - with a new hose - while the cockatoo neatly punched holes in the hose. The head keeper was NOT impressed! However, once I explained about the Asperger's, the Head Keeper said, "Send him along with a notebook and pencil, I'll make sure he writes down the list of instructions."
    After that it went so well that after 2 years when difficult child 1 himself decided to leave, they said, "Please come back and work for us any time."
    The key was - supervision plus writing down the things to be done.

    I know he's allegedly an adult, but I strongly suggest you treat him like a six year old needing incentives and support. And it needs to be immediate as far as possible. Even if you have to do a sticker chart of sorts - for every day he does the chores exactly right, he gets something he wants from you (either being driven somewhere, or a full belly form a delicious home-cooked casserole - his favourite). Praise works well too.

    You're on the right track - if there's not enough wood for the cooking fire, then of course there's not enough cooked food for him.

    Maybe a starting point for him is to break up the chores into a daily one he HAS to do (such as keep the wood box full). Don't add more chores until he gets that one right.

    Or as I said before, write up a large list and tick things off as they're done properly. Laminate it and tick it off with a white board pen. Be specific - "Give cows their water. 8 x 20L for the bath, 4 x 20L for the trough. Fresh, every day. Or they will give no milk."

    A tip from difficult child 1 - he actually mentioned this at his wedding (he met his wife working at the zoo) - you change the animals' water when you wouldn't drink it yourself. daughter in law one day didn't want to change the water in the camels' pen, said it looked clean enough and actually drank some to prove her point!
    So if he says, "the cows have enough water, it looks clean enough," then at the end of the day get a jug full and put it at his place at the dinner table. Or make his coffee with it. If/when he objects, tell him that you're only asking him to do what he asks the cows to do. If the cow can do it, so can he, surely?

    Sometimes, especially with Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD), you really need to make a point very obvious. And although he sounds like he has a wide range of possible labels, chances are it's only one (or maybe two) things and not every specialist got it right. That's how you can have a kid end up with multiple labels and not all of them fit. Ockams Razor - the simplest explanation is most often the right one.

    You're not a bad mother. You just have a lot to deal with.

  3. lmf64

    lmf64 New Member

    Trish, it sounds like he's really putting you through it. He's 19, knows it all and is lazy to boot. I remember both of my brothers being the same way. Don't be so hard on yourself. We all have our moments when they push us to the edge and then push a little bit more. There will be others along to give you more advice, but I just wanted to let you know that we're here and we care.
    by the way therapist is therapist and psychiatrist is psychologist/psychiatrist.
  4. LittleDudesMom

    LittleDudesMom Well-Known Member Staff Member


    don't think you are a bad mom - you are being pushed to the point with your, should be more responsible, son. We all have our points. You reached yours. Marg offered some of the same I was thinking - responsibility/chore list tied to what he wants. Our previous board owner/leader Fran had a great saying that she used with her grown difficult child son - "give to get". He doesn't give any, he doesn't get any. Hold firm. Take care.

  5. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Why was he diagnosed with schizophrenia? Do you agree that he has it? Does he hallucinate or have distorted thinking? If he truly is schizophrenic, I'm not an expert in that by any means, but, being interested in mental illness, I've read a lot about it. I would say that if this extremely serious brain disorder is truly his diagnosis, he is going to process things very slowly, be somewhat confused a lot, possibly substance abuse to feel better, and just be a little bit "off." I wouldn't blame him for his disorder--maybe he needs a group home to help him and take the burden off of you. It's tough to raise a mentally ill young adult.

    Ok, you're not a bad mother. You're overwhelmed. Here are my thoughts. Risperdal made my son so sleepy that that's all he did. I removed it, but he doesn't have schizophrenia either. medications can make one very lethargic and interfer with cognitive thinking. I have needed medications since I was 23 and I won't take any that dull me or slow me down. I hate the feeling. You do feel like doing nothing. I'm not excusing him because I don't know if that's why he's acting lazy, but it's possible. It can also slow down your thinking processes. Both bipolar and schizophrenia, especially schizophrenia, can cause cognitive problems. Schizophrenic kids may have been the at the top of their class, but once they get sick, often they can barely slice meat for dinner. It's really sad. Often in my opinion they need a group home. Many these days do function at home, but they still need help.
    He could also have Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) and been misdiagnosed. What do YOU think? You're mom and you have that wonderful radar called "MOM GUT." Do you think he is schizophrenic or that he has been misdiagnosed?

    Marg is best to help you with the resources in your country as we are so different here. But I did want to let you know that everyone snaps under pressure. I slapped my daughter once when she was eleven. This was over ten years ago and I still cringe that I did it. But we're human. (((Hugs)))
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2009
  6. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    It sounds like you have a whole lot to contend with. Don't beat yourself up for losing it and slapping him. Most of us have lost it and done something we are not proud of.

    I think looking for a group home sounds like a great idea. Marg would be a great help to point you toward resources for your difficult child.

    It really sounds like it would be for the best to not take him with you unless he has already made plans and you have already verified them. Having him decide to go and start drinking at that hour is taking a running leap down the road to alcoholism. I am NOT saying he is an alcoholic. But many people with mental illness turn to alcohol to self medicate. It is a vicious cycle.

    Here is a link to the common abbreviations we use : http://www.conductdisorders.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8 I must admit I am surprised that therapist and psychiatrist were not listed there. I thought that therapist was a therapist, psychologist, licensed clinical social worker, pastor, etc who does the "talk therapy", the one you talk to for an hour or so every week. I understood psychiatrist to be a child and adolescent psychiatrist, the one who writes the prescriptions for medications.

    It sounds like you have a lot going on and need some help. It might be a good thing for your 19yo difficult child to move to a group home. He would get more socialization than any parent could provide on their own, and he would also have to learn at least a little about how the world works.
  7. Marguerite

    Marguerite Active Member

    Clarifying the labels but for an Aussie situation -

    The "therapist" "psychiatrist" thing is a bit tricky for kids in Australia. A lot of our kids see a pediatrician until they're up to 25 years old. You can also get a child psychiatrist, but either-or. It depends on the local specialists and what they specialise in. The psychiatrists can keep teir patients while the pediaitricians have to refer them on at 25. Our pediatrician was taking time off to do further study so he could add psychiatry to his qualifications but found it too awkward and dropped it. So he's had to refer difficult child 1 on to a psychiatrist, someone he refers so many oter patients to that this psychiatrist 'specialises' in ADHD and autism.

    Meanwhile difficult child 3, even though he's only 15, is now on the books of a leading psychiatrist who specialises in autism, thanks to our conneciton through the research project. We still see the pediatrician for ADHD medications but maybe when difficult child 3 turns 25 we'll be able to switch to this psychiatry professor.

    So I used the term "psychiatrist" to mean the medical specialist who prescribes te medications,' and "therapist" for the psychologist who is doing the counselling or CBT. I strongly recommend CBT for your son if you can get him to go - it can help a lot with inertia, with anxiety or anger or other issues. My mother in law is very down on tdocs of all kinds because she's a former nurse back when the mental health system was full of quacks who talked a lot and did little of use, certainly compared to the profession today. But I've explained about CBT to her and she likes it, doesn't consider it to be the same as the "quacks" she was always very wary of.

    The treating doctor who prescribed the antibiotics, the antidepressants, orders the blood tests and looks afgter the sniffles, the sprained ankles etc - that's the GP.

    Group homes in Australia - I'm not sure we have anything really suitable in this case. But don't quote me, I could be wrong. It's a bit like Residential Treatment Center (RTC) - not something I've heard of here either, but again, I could be wrong. Certainly it's not commonly available.

    When it comes to really difficult kids with challenging or dangerous behaviours - NOT easy. However, a family we know with a Prader-Willi kid who needs constant supervision (24/7) because he's self-harming - that boy is in an out of home living arrangement which sounds a lot like Residential Treatment Center (RTC) in a lot of ways. The mother just couldn't watch him closely enough, she had to sleep sometimes!

    Trish, try giving him a written list and at the same time an incentive for doing the job(s) properly. Try to link the incentive to the job so he can see cause and effect.

    I would also see if you can get ALL his past reports looked at by his treating specialist to see if you can get a coordinated approach, some way of saying, "Yes he has this, but not that," so you have a better idea in your own mind of how to manage him. For example, if he has schizophrenia you would handle his refusal differently, to if he has Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD). The inner reasons for refusal are different and need a different approach. The suggestions I gave you are what worked for us with Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD). It would be interesting to see if it worked for you.

  8. therese005us

    therese005us New Member

    hi Marg, and everyone that has responded. Thanks so much for your support and care - it really does help.
    Well, this morning when he came up for a drink, I'd already checked the situation regarding the cow/horse water. So, when he went to the tap for a drink, I said, 'sorry, there's no water available to you, until the cows have water, 8 for the bath and 4 for the grey trough' when he asked if he could have breakfast first, I said no.
    when he came back up, I reminded him he was to leave the full containers next to the bath too; and refused to allow that to wait either.

    as for his diagnoses, well, when he was discharged from the Mental Health hosptial in T...... last year, it says 'schizophreniform disorder'; psychotic illness precipitated by non compliance with medication and marijuana abuse.

    It was recommended that he maintain regular contact with a psychiatrist - I arranged an appointment with him and he dictated a report in my presence to our GP recommending he link with the community Mental Health Services. The report was a good one, but unfortunately, it never reached our GP and when we queried it, it was lost! The second one that they dictated was rubbish! and no where near as accurate.
    I was pleased about the recommendation to refer to CMHS because previously the GP had recommended this, plus counselling, and DS had refused. So, nothing has ever been done about this. He just keeps going to the GP for his needle each fortnight. I think I will follow this through again; I realy feel he would benefit from regular counselling.

    The further recommendations for crisis strategies made me cross too:
    Avoid alcohol and psychoactive substances as the will adversely affect your mental health and the efficacy of the medication - we've all tried to tell him this, but I think he does have a drinking problem - 6 OP rums in a few hours is a clear indication of this. And sometimes it's more.
    Keep yourself busy doing useful activities - okay maybe the cow/water is good for this;
    Avoid sitting about doing nothing - he's best at that, and how do you make a 19yo do things?
    Use deep breathing techniques
    Listen to music - I think that heavy metal stuff is bad for him;
    Watch TV - he does lots of that!
    Do some exercise - doesn't happen he's allergic to it
    Play on your playstation - he's 19!! but he does that too
    Avoid making difficult or important decisions while in a crisis

    I am going to look out the earlier diagnoses and let you know next time.

    I hope that this period will pass soon, as he's not easy to live with when he's like this. It's even more stressful than usual.

    I thought I'd have a chat to the GP, initially he was on 50mg at the hospital, with good results and the maintenance dose was dropped to 37.5 mg (resperidone consta)

    Could be, he's a little jealous of the fact we have two new permanents in the house, though Cherub has been here so often this year, she's been permanent in some sense.

    Now we have GS (german student) as well and he's been a little displaced as far as getting attention????

    Anyway, keep sending me some advice, I really need it.
  9. Marguerite

    Marguerite Active Member

    OK, fair warning here - my suggestions will be from the point of view of Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD). First, it's what I understand. Second, all you describe matches what I've been through with difficult child 1 and what I'm on the edge of with difficult child 3. So I'm telling you what we've had advised for us, plus what seems to work for us.

    1) In the absence of him agreeing to go see a therapist, YOU become the therapist. This also means you need to look after your own mental health and get some ideas on how to handle him. Hopefully you can get him to the point where he will accept therapy - under a Health Care Plan organised via the GP (and bulk-billable under Medicare) you should be able to get him into some therapy (aim for CBT) for a limited course (which can be extended should the need be seen, but don't tell him that). You might be able to persuade him on the basis of "It's only for six weeks, it's not costing anything, and who knows? It could lead to some good stuff."
    He also needs to know - therapy is not nagging, it's about teaching him a more productive way of thinking and sorting out his own problems. Teaching him how to feel better about himself and how to enjoy life more. It's having someone else to whine to, who might have some constructive ideas for him.

    2) I think you've mentioned before you don't have TV? But you just said that he watches TV. So if there is a TV in the house and in his room, it needs to come out into the main part of the house so he watches it in the company of other people. TV is NOT a bad thing, it's actually got a lot going for it. Yes, there is an increasing tendency for families to eat dinner in front of the box and to not talk togeter at meal times - you can still legislate for TV-free mealtimes. But having the TV where everyone can watch it means you can see the same things, you have things to talk about and discuss. Conversation practice is a good thing for everybody, including the German student!

    3) Gaming - with the TV in the main family area, you now need to get a Wii game system. Get it with the Wii Fit package and the Wii Sports. I would also recommend Mario Party. All of these can be played as a family, it is really great for family sharing, it teaches a lot of social skills as well as coordination (mental and physical). The games get you out of your chair and physically active. And also it does it as a grop, so you can share each other's attempts. Not only lots of fun, but alos very good for cognitive development across all ages. Seriously - this is good stuff. It would boost his morale, cherub's morale, your morale - I also use Mario Party game time together (me and difficult child 3 playing together) as a reward for him. Either a certain time limit or, easier to measure, a certain number of rounds of a game. Mario Party is like an interactive board game, you can set different skill levels so Cherub can have hers set easier than, say, daughter or DS.
    Wii stuff, especially Wii Fit & Wii Sports - it will have him playing the computer games (difficult child 3's therapist recommended that too) as well as watching TV as well as getting physical activity, all rolled up together. And he won't even realise he will be exercising!
    difficult child 3 has taken the Wii tennis further now into a weekly game on a real tennis court. He'd never have done this without the Wii Sports first. There's a whole range of active games - the teen favourite generally seems to be Raving Rabbids - they're insane rabbits that you have to shoot before they get to you, it's very Looney Tunes meets The Blob, and you armed with a crossbow pointed at the screen. The crossbow fires suction cup arrows which nevertheless still seem to be lethal to the Rabbids. Hilarious to play or to watch. Mario Party also has its very physical moments. Seriously - therapists are taking Wii Fit and Wii Sports into old folks homes and getting the inmates up and moving, having fun while staying healthy. This is good stuff!

    Music - listen to it with him, analyse the lyrics with him, discuss it with him. Ask him what he likes about his music and try to cultivate a taste for it (or at least appreciation on some level) yourself.
    For example, difficult child 1 & easy child 2/difficult child 2 for a while were very into Rammstein. They played some for me and while I found the growling, gutteral booming of it a bit depressing after the second track, I was pleasantly surprised at how clear the diction was. All in German, but I could understand enough from my school German to want to know more, so I Googled info on the band and the lyrics and found some very interesting stuff which I shared with the kids.
    The benefits of this - they felt valued because I had taken the trouble to find out about stuff they were intereested in. I felt more comfortable because I understood their interests better and also knew more about what they were up to. And with what I found out (the lyrics are often double-meaning, with Rammstein, I've shared the info with teachers of German in high school and they also find it interesting) we've been able to share this knowledge more widely. It also totally astonishes other teens now, when I recognise Rammstein's music (and of course other bands my kids shared with me).
    I still don't choose to listen to Rammstein, but I can still admire the intelligence in their work.

    Even Eminem's lyrics are of value - it's just a matter of looking and finding out. If you find you don't like his music, find out what about it HE likes, then try to find something you can both agree on. Find the meeting place. Maybe when you want him to do something, tell him that while he does it, he has his choice of music playing out loud. Although I'm not sure how you could apply that to filling the water containers...

    Talk to the GP, see what you can set up. And I think you could be on te money with all the change in the household, especially with the loss of attention he's feeling. By putting in place some of these things, you're giving him back some attention. And it's always imprtant to give erach kid some positive one-on-one time.

    A suggestion on how to do this - would he work with you on the water containers? I often find that difficult child 3 will willingly work alongside me to do a chore, and yet moan and carry on if I ask him to do it on his own. Often I ask him to do Chore A while I do Chore B, and we get it all done happily, yet if I asked him to do Chore A while I'm elsewhere doing Chore C - whining.
    Some chores they love. Today at the train track, difficult child 3 chose to stand out in the sprinkling showers in the cold, and chip slag off the welded rails waiting to be installed. It's a job other people hate, but difficult child 3 loves it. Nobody can understand why. He's a kid who given half a chance will sit and play computer games 24/7, yet here he was for hours (literally) chip-chipping away.
    It takes time and observation to find out whata difficult child enjoys doing, so don't try to engage his enthusiasm too early.

    Giving him responsibility and using praise is good. At least to begin with. Even if you feel you have to push yourself to praise him for filling the water containers, do it as much as you honestly can.

    We'll get there. I likewhat you said you did (another thread) when you told him he couldn't have his drink or breakfast until he'dtended to the animals. When he says, "Tomorrow," the answer is - "It has to be done again tomorrow as well."

    It's a much nicer job to do, if you don't leave it for too long.
    Example - we have chooks. We gave one of our roosters to a neighbour who also had a few chooks. Our chooks - each day we empty out the water dishes (we use plastic ice cream containers sitting in wooden boxes), rinse them out (the garden gets all this benefit) and then fill them with fresh water. The bowls may get a bit grungy over time unless we scrub them, but the water smells OK.
    The neighbour - he never emptied the bowls, he would simply stand there and hose them. This meant that the chookhouse floor got wet and mucky (wet chook manure and mulch turns to smelly mud and ferments) and the bowls always had some rancid muck in it (because chooks haven't got the brains to nnot poop in their water bowls.) He visited our chooks, wanted to know why our chookhouse doens't smell. I said, "we change the water every day."
    He replied, "So do I, I hose it all out."
    I tried to explain that you need to totally change the water, plus NOT get the rest of the chookhouse wet. if you do get it wet you spread garden lime to sweeten it.
    He never could get it, because of the primary problem - he never wanted to get his fingers mucky form picking up the water container and tipping it out. The crazy thing is - HE didn't want to get his FINGERS mucky, but it was the same stuff he expected his hens to DRINK! And he wondered why we got more eggs!

    Maybe trying to put things in thisperspective for DS could help - so he can really identify with the animals and not think of them as objects. It helps the empathy, which again is someting we need to work on with Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD). They ARE capable of it but need to learn it more intensely.

    Enough for mow. Bedtime.

  10. therese005us

    therese005us New Member

    Just before I go to bed Marg, I'd like to quickly respond to your post.
    TV - he has his own tv in his own caravan and he watches endless DVDS (which I'm about to restrict to 2 or 3 a week) which is his latest obsession. He borrows DVDs from friends, and now has discovered he can hire about 10 a week for a $1 each.
    Having a TV in our part of the house is not an option. We don't watch TV, we occasionally watch suitable DVDs.
    We would never have the Wee? whatever that thing is, or any game such as you describe. Shooting, killing, etc is not acceptable in any shape or form (playacting etc.)
    Again, the music is never to be condoned. I have asked him what he likes to listen to, looked up the lyrics - tried to analyse why he would enjoy it - and drawn a blank.
    Some of the rap music he is listening to at the moment does have interesting lyrics, I'm praying for a change in his heart in this regard.

    What is the CBT you refer to? Oh I just looked it up - Cognitive Behaviour Therapy

    I will be having a chat with the GP this week about a referral. Originally when I asked, DS refused. I was disappointed, because I thought at least if he has a referral, I could get some support too. It's time to try again.
  11. Marguerite

    Marguerite Active Member

    With the Wii you have choice of what games to get. And the Wii Fit & Wii Sports don't include shooting anything. I mentioned the Raving Rabbids because that's one difficult child 1 showed us and it was sufficiently "OK" with us because it uses suction cup things and is not designed to be taken seriously. Yes, there are more violent weapon's-based games (as with any game system - you won't catch any games manufacturer letting that one go!) but it's a matter of personal choice what you get or don't get.

    We've also had a "no weapons' policy at home, for as long as we could. difficult child 1 got into Star Wars light sabers and from there into more serious bladed weapons (which he has now removed from our house). But since then - none. However, difficult child 3 now does have some target practice games thanks to difficult child 1's influence. But his favourite games are not weapons-based, they're the logic maze-based ones or the interactive board games ones. He likes the golf one too.

    With the music - husband & I watched the Saturday morning music video stuff on TV (while it was at least moderately representative of what music was popular at the time - these days too much of these programs is some programmer's idea of what to put on. Who can say the word "payola"?). I noticed the increasing prevalence of some 'music' with the theme of "yo, it's my [female person of negotiable affection/female dog] so hands off or I'll [do something physically unpleasant and possibly terminal to you]". Or the one that really got me - "Show us your grille, daddy." Or whatever... the whole message being, "I'm rich, I have money, I can have whatever and whoever I want, everybody and everything else means less than nothing to me." Gangsta rap, for example (deliberately mispelled to indicate ultimate rebellion - frankly pathetic in my opinion, we did rebellion much better back in the 60s and 70s). That's why I like Pink, she's got 60s/70s rebellion down pat and this includes protesting against this mindless trash (as in "Stupid Girls").
    So I talked to the kids about this music (found they hated it too) and this led to discussion on values, on respecting other people's space, property and person and above all, respecting yourself. And also not valuing materialism.
    I could not believe how shallow some of this music was, in its message.
    But it did give me an opening to discuss the topic with the kids.

    And like Normie said, "Don't you ever let a chance go by, oh no..." (Newcastle Song, Bob Hudson, 1975-ish).

    If you can't get support for DS in place (either because the GP refuses, or DS does) then how about asking for a Health Care Plan for you, to help you with your stress load? Grab what you can while Kev is tossing around the Rudd bucks...

  12. therese005us

    therese005us New Member

    Thanks for that info Marg. Those ideas, however, are not options in our household.
    today was a better day.
    I had pre written a list of what I expected him to do. When I went to call him, he refused to get up. Told him I was doing the schoolrun and would be back in about an hour and expected him to be up.
    He was. reiterated his chores, and suggested he shower and shave by the time I returned from the school meeting. I had something important to tell him, and suggested he have a 'really good shave, and get rid of his goatie'. Since he'd already hinted he wanted to.

    When I returned nearly two hours later from the school, with a splitting headache, I was pleasantly surprised that he had done the chores - well, and had a good shave. I hardly recognised the handsome boy sipping tea at my table. He was smiling and coy! I think he's back!!
    I was happy to tell him that we had a good lead on his apprenticeship, and we should hear something by week's end. (he doesn't know I had set a little of it up, and pushed things along!) So, he was pretty cooperative for the rest of the day, and I can hardly believe he's so handsome!

    Keep praying everyone!

    I have set up an appointment with the GP, but I don't know what this Health Care plann is you're talking of Marg.
  13. Marguerite

    Marguerite Active Member

    Ask the GP about the Health Care Plan. What it is, to the best of my ability - it is a document drawn up by your GP (if your GP is one of those willing to use this part of the Aussie Medicare system; my old GP didn't like doing thise because he felt they were a waste of national money, but other GPs I've known will do one on every patient to walk through the door including visitors on holiday who will never be back; very dishonest).

    You generally have to make a special appointment for a long consultation for this, so asking the GP first is the way to go.
    At the special consult, the GP fills in various forms on behalf of the patient. What sort of services will the patient benefit from? There have been more changes in this program in the last 12 months (or is it 2 years?) where you can now get psychology services bulk-billed. That's a private psychologist, not a public clinic one. BUT - they need to be registered to bulk-bill AND you need a referral form a GP who has drawn up a Health Care Plan.

    The GP concerned gets a financial kickback from Medicare (hence the risk of this being abused, as I have witnessed). But it also opens doors for free treatment sessions for people who otherwise mightn't be able to afford it.
    The psychologist you get referred to (and you do need to have a name, I think - although the fraudulent GP who was writing Health Care Plans for all and sundry just gave me a printed list of names to call and then never followed up) is supposed to eventually write a report back to the GP. At least my GP requires it.

    I got a Health Care Plan set up for easy child 2/difficult child 2 when she needed to see a psychologist for counselling (stress etc) which also opened a few other doors; end result was discovery of a stomach problem which was aggravated by stress but was also causing stress and mimicking more stress. Complicated.
    For some time she was seeing a psychologist and we were footing the (expensive) bill. Then when bulk-billing came in (under those conditions) it was lovely to just have her hand over hed Medicare card and not have to worry.

    This is national. But if your GP is more honest than most, or lazy or overworked, he might not consider a Health Care Plan unless you ask. It's paperwork. Some doctors don't consider it worth the trouble for them, although it's definitely worth it for the patient, if you have the services in your area.

    When you got home to find the handsome stranger at the breakfast table, I hope you praised him for doing the job and looking so good. Sorry about your headache - hardly surprising, really.

    What sort of apprenticeship is he after? Do you have a disability emplyment agency in your area? We have Nova, I don't think it's just NSW-based. They rang me today, they think they have a job and possible apprenticeship for difficult child 1. Again - they plug into the government funding and initiatives. If your son is on any kind of Centrelink payment, I think there are some big financial incentives to employers to give them an apprenticeship regardless of how old they are. There's a new one (but only for NSW at the moment, IF it ever gets off the ground/Nathan Rees doesn't get booted out as Premier) where any young person who has lost a job in '09 due to the economic downturn will be given a new job. I'll believe THAT one when I see it, but difficult child 1 qualifies for this as well. (hm - wonder what happens to Nathan Rees if his party dumps him before Dec 09?)

    So talk to the GP.

    I just went looking for a website to explain all this - and it looks like our government (in their infinite stupidity) have changed the name of it (just to keep us guessing and maybe to cut down on people using it and therefore costing the government money).

    I hope it helps.