I made him leave.

[Feeling Sad]

Copa, you did the right thing.

I know what you are talking about when you say that you do not want to hear his conspiracy theories and that you are in denial.

First of all, even if you take yourself and your needs out of the picture...you did the right thing for HIM. Yes, you helped your son. It might not feel like it, but you did.

He needs to get a plan in place for his life as an adult. If he is not in a place psychologically to go to college or work, then he needs to address that issue. You know that I tried for 9 years to help my son. I tried to get my son to go back to college, see his friends, and get a part-time job. That was when he was not as bad psychologically. His schizophrenia was lurking in the early stages.

When he got worse...I wanted him to see a doctor and get therapy or medications.

My point is this. If he lived with you, he would have zero chance to do these things with the 'buffer' of your hearth and home. The more that you gently urged him, ie nagged him and the more incentives you put in place, ie bribes, and lastly the more ultimatums you set, ie yelling and then caving in once more...would be to no avail. He would surely get worse.

There have been studies that find that often young adults, although they beg to come back home to live with their parents, at the same time, they despise and resent us because it makes them feel worse about themselves. In their minds, they feel like they are lacking. They are not acting like adults or are not 'normal'. It weakens their flailing self-concepts.

They feel better about themselves if they are on their own and finding their way in life. He will learn, in time, what he needs to do to get a roommate, friends, job, or go to school. He needs to figure out what he needs to do.

As far as the conspiracies go...it is counter-productive to argue with him. It will not make him stop believing in the validity of his theories. In fact...it is the opposite. It will only serve to make him stronger in his resolve.

Yes, it is scary to think that your son is believing in nontruths. Remember, rational thought and reasoning play no part. You cannot expect it to be effective.

There are a multitude of levels of mental illness. There are thousands of people out there who believe in irrational theories who still work and have families. You do not know what the future holds for him. But, his choices are just that...his choices.

Yes, you did the right thing for you, but you did the right thing for your son, as well. You both have a chance to get better and stronger now.

I wish that I had pushed my son out years ago. Perhaps, he would have been better today. I know that I would be...

So, stop feeling like you did something mean and heartless to him. As my therapist has said, "You saved both yourself AND your son".

Did I help my son with my love? Sadly, no. Did I try hard? Yes. Did it work? No...

He will be fine. You will be fine. You both need space to heal. Nurture yourself, Copa. Breathe. You helped both your son and yourself. Walk tomorrow for YOU!!! Do something special for yourself tomorrow for YOU!!!

 

[Copabanana]

Copa, you did the right thing.

Thank you, Feeling. What a beautiful post and beautifully written.

He was better this time. There were moments that he was his old self.

But he wants to dominate his space. He does not recognize that to do so, he needs to pay for it, with a written contract. Short of that, other people get to dominate. Even mothers. Maybe, especially mothers.

After reading your post and those of others, I realize that what I did was a sign of greater health and greater strength than before, rather than weakness. Of course, it would have been better to not let him in (could you have) or to remain calm, as M advises. But imperfect, I still am.

And now that I think about it, my son showed gains, too. In the past he would have called the cops on me. He did leave, without protest. (Although he found M somehow who took him to the vacant house where he has been working. So I can rest easily because he has shelter.)

Thank you so much.

COPA

 

[Copabanana]

I forgot this part. Before I demanded he leave, he asked M, who later told me, how much rent he thinks I would accept for him to rent a room in our house.

You have to know that this was his plan all along.

I feel guilt because there is something in my son, that yearns to be dependent. But it is a very strange dependency because as much he needs to dominate.

Domination without responsibility is what I call it. That is what he seeks. Making everybody else responsible for everything (that needs doing, for all that goes wrong, that needs cleaning up) while he constantly calls the shots and critiques everything that YOU do. Sounds attractive, no? It is a miracle I lasted 2 nights.

Again, thank you all.

COPA

 

[Copabanana]

home, my sanctuary, becomes the rabbit hole when he's in it. I start doubting myself, doubting what I know to be true, doubting what I know is the right thing to do.

I keep reading through everybody's responses and each time I find new meaning.

This is exactly what happens. It is just like with my sister. I know she is doing something wrong, that I have been hurt. But there is a masquerade going on. And I pretend that I do not know or understand that there is a deception.

You told him no and he showed up anyway, and acted *as if*

See, I collude.

There is the wanting to be a good person, to do the right thing. Especially for your child, but for your people, too. How does a good person, a good parent turn away their child? In the cold night. Do they wait to that cold night, to push themselves in?

But the other part of the sentence is your child has ignored your wishes. He is an intruder as surely as if he had beaten down the door. Because I had said NO. You cannot come here.

Of course parents are supposed to be the place of last resort. Is that their strategy, to push you to the place against the wall where you have to betray yourself or them, and you choose to betray yourself? Or do they remain willfully and blissfully ignorant of the costs to others, lest it cramp their style?

COPA

 

[Scent of Cedar *]

And she has stripped so much from me - confidence, positivity, self-assurance - along with a huge financial burden we will be digging out from under for quite some time.

This hit me so hard.

And she has stripped so much from me ~ confidence, positivity, self-assurance...financial burden we will be digging out from under for quite some time.

Funny, how we never count the cost to ourselves; the cost to our lives, and our self regard. Confidence, positivity, self-assurance....

Cedar

 

[Scent of Cedar *]

There is the wanting to be a good person, to do the right thing. Especially for your child, but for your people, too. How does a good person, a good parent turn away their child? In the cold night. Do they wait to that cold night, to push themselves in?

But the other part of the sentence is your child has ignored your wishes. He is an intruder as surely as if he had beaten down the door. Because I had said NO. You cannot come here.

Of course parents are supposed to be the place of last resort. Is that their strategy, to push you to the place against the wall where you have to betray yourself or them, and you choose to betray yourself? Or do they remain willfully and blissfully ignorant of the costs to others, lest it cramp their style?

If we can learn to see the things that happen with our Gift From God children as learning to parent them in the way they require to be parented Copa, then not only will we be able to survive what needs to happen next intact, but we can teach the kids to respect, and rely on, themselves.

That is what we are after, here.

Our sons (and daughters) as people of honor.

As it is, we have been teaching them they are beggars; victims.

Here is something else I know: Had your son behaved as a gentleman, had your son had a modicum of respect and a plan for his future, you would not have put him out. Your action took courage. It would have been easier to let him live there and take to your room again.

You did not do that, Copa.

You were strong.

Now, your son will learn to be strong. If he comes back, when he comes back, he will behave as a gentleman. And if he doesn't? It will be an easier thing for you to decide when your boundries have been breached and disallow it.

None of this is pretty, Copa.

You handled yourself well.

In this, you have given your son a chance. You both know how things would have progressed Copa, had you taken your son in, given his current attitude.

You made the correct choice.

There are a thousand bargaining positions open to you now that you did not have, before.

Cedar

I loved the piece about how to love ourselves, Copa. That was so beautiful.

 

[InsaneCdn]

Or do they remain willfully and blissfully ignorant of the costs to others, lest it cramp their style?

In my experience... more often than not it is willful ignorance. They don't WANT to know what the impact is on anybody else, because then they would have to think and act differently.

Doesn't make it any less painful for US, though, whether it's a deliberate attempt to hurt or just "blissful ignorance".

 

[BusynMember]

While they are in "not thinking" mode, the sickness causes them not to CARE about the impact of anyone else.

It doesn't mean they are horrible. It means the mental illness makes them horrible.

Hang in there and big hugs. You know how much I care.

 

[New Leaf]

My Tornado claims to be off crack and "only" smokes pot. She is still incredibly moody and selfish, has no empathy and is only happy when she is high.
I agree with Swot, drugs have brain-napped our
d cs. When Tornado was forced to drug test to get her kids back, I saw a glimpse of her old self.
Although pot has medicinal value, it does horrible things to some people's personalities, my daughter is not the exception to this.
I am sorry Copa for your heart ache. You are doing very well, all things considered. I would have had a hard time turning my child away in the cold at 10:00 at night. Smart buggers, they know just how to corner us.
I really liked your post on loving ourselves. I hope you are able to do this during this time of contact with your son, take time for yourself and slow down to think things through. By what you have posted, I see you doing this. Good job Copa. My thoughts and prayers are with you. Keep showing your son that he needs to respect you and your home. Good job in not letting him cross that line!
(((Hugs)))
leafy

 

[BusynMember]

My Tornado claims to be off crack and "only" smokes pot.

So did my daughter. After she quit, she admitted using all sorts of stimulants--crushing ADHD drugs, especially Adderrol into pillcrushers and snorting alone or with cocaine. Ecstasy. METH (yes, the dreaded meth). Tried heroin a few times and thankfully did not use a needle so never got addicted. They don't tell us w hat t hey use. They know most of us won't freak out over pot so they say they use pot. Do not be surprised if you find out one day it is far more. We can't trust what they say.

I hope I'm wrong. Just wanted to give you a heads up.

Hugs and more hugs. And mucho love.

 

[A dad]

Its very hard to live with your adult children in the same house we can not be roommates we have expectations from them be them reasonable or not. You know the period where children create their own identity by pushing the boundaries and breaking certain values and making other that are in opposition to out own?
Well that is the problem they become adults that have values that contradict our own making living with them very very difficult because unlike a roommate we care a lot about them.
Of course it works in some cultures but I know from experience its mostly because you sacrifice a lot of yourself to coexist. Probably the other person makes sacrifices also but it does not mean its always good.
Better each with their own lives so there are gonna be less friction.

 

[Ironbutterfly]

Thank you everybody.

One of the things that makes me the most crazy is his belief system which evolves around conspiracy theories. The fundamental idea is that a powerful elite or cabal rules the world that are descendants of a mating of reptiles and martians.

I cannot bear hearing one word about it. I think at the basis, my repulsion stems from my fear that he must truly be a fruitcake to believe in something so nutty.

COPA

When my son was drug crazed- he would call or text me things like "I am moving to Arizona, going underground with 53 people, world is coming to an end, the government is going to kill everyone, etc". He would get extremely religious in a crazy way. When he would call me with this talk, I would stop him dead in his tracks and tell him, I have to go. Talk to you later. That is my boundary. I don't want to hear it and I won't hear it. If he texts, I don't reply. You know your weakness is letting him in the house. Do one thing to change what you know is your weakness or how they get you hooked back in. Just do one thing, then another, etc.

 

[Copabanana]

Of course it works in some cultures but I know from experience its mostly because you sacrifice a lot of yourself to coexist.

I was reading about Filipino culture which has a concept called Kapwa which I understand as "shared being". From the time you are born you are taught that your happiness depends upon the group, belonging, helping, contributing, and self-esteem is based on that. Fililipinos are among, if not the happiest people in the world, except for traditional, tribal cultures, perhaps.

Our culture in the States is like one hundred percent different, where we are encouraged to base our self-esteem and happiness on ourselves...our pleasures, our achievements, our possessions.

How do I backtrack now? I just heard about the concept. I am a senior citizen.

My partner M comes from the Mexican culture, where there is a similar operating principle. He believes that I should help my son, to the extent of living with him, only if he adheres to our rules and is working toward goals that would make him self-sufficient. Neither of these, he is doing.

It seems very clear to me now, that I did the right thing. Only 24 hours later I feel my peace of mind and productivity returning. I am feeling secure in my home. I do not know how I will deal next time with this challenge. Perhaps both of us, my son and I will learn how to do this better.

COPA

 

[Copabanana]

"Do one thing to change your weakness." Ironbutterfly is addressing here my weakness which was letting him in the house. (My quote is not working.)

My son told me yesterday Tuesday morning, I think it was: "I was afraid you would not let me in the house. That you would turn me away. I thought I would have nobody. I had nobody."

My son knows the lines he should not cross with me, and he knows now the consequences. He felt he had nowhere to go. So he tried.

Yet he does not see, or will not yet see, that as long as he chooses to live as a vagrant he will always be living at the margin of having nowhere to go. He knows he has nobody else left now except me. Yet he still does not want to choose differently.

I am thinking that the only thing left is to turn him away at the door. Or give him one night until the next morning at 9am. And limit that to one time per month.

I do not know. This is so hard.

COPA

 

[Hopeful97]

COPA,

I have been reading this thread. You absolutely did the right thing! Just wanted to let you know you are not alone.

HUGS,

Hopeful

 

[Tanya M]

When he is here my life becomes a living hell. I used to retreat to my room and lock myself in. This time I refused. He constantly eats or prepares food. Bakes cake mixes, cookies. He comments on the news, he criticizes. What I eat. My exercise or lack. How we treat or respond to the animals. Silently, I become frantic.

I am glad you did not retreat to your room. Your son is showing zero respect or appreciation for you letting him stay. He is acting as if it's his house.
It was a very loving thing to let him stay but he did not reciprocate with love.

Within moments I was yelling: Get out of my house. I cannot stand you here. Can you not see, I am trying to claw myself back to life? I cannot choose for you, if the only resources I have, I need to live, myself. You cannot stay here. You have to leave.

Copa, I probably would have responded the same way. Even after all the years my son has not been around me, I don't think I could handle him being in my home as I know he would behave much like your son did. The last time my son was in my home was about 7 years ago, he went into my bedroom without asking. When I went in there he was looking under my bed (not sure what for) when I asked him what he was doing he said he just wanted to see what kind of bed we had??? Who does that!! He also went to the fridge and just helped himself.
You know, when I would go visit my parents I would always ask before just helping myself.

He said he was going to the mountains to die of exposure. If that is your decision, so be it.

Oh boy does this sound like something my son would say.

Every bit of care that he wants from me, it seems that I take away from that which is essential for me.

And this is how it is with a Difficult Child. It's like a bank account for our emotional health. We do our best to take care of ourselves and we deposit into our "emotional bank account" as we go about our life there are times when withdraws will be made but it's ok because we make regular deposits. When it comes to dealing with our d_cs we are constantly overdrawn and the overdraft charges keep racking up and before we know it we can be emotionally bankrupt.

I'm glad that you know you need to take care of yourself.

I cannot feel my home is a refuge for me, when my son is here. Not only do I feel I have nothing to give. I feel I have lost everything that I have. Not only that I am all used up but that I have no way of regenerating in me. I feel that my son eats me up alive.

Yup, just like the bank account.

You deserve to live in your home without any chaos.

I hope you are having a better day today.

 

[toughlovin]

Hi Copa, I too think you did the right thing, really the only thing for your own health and sanity. I remember so clearly the relief we felt after we kicked my son out and our home was again our sanctuary.... And I realized I never want to give that up again. That feeling of needing to escape your own home for your sanity is absolutely no way to live.

Of course M is right..... BUT when dealing with our kids there is so much emotion that it is really hard to continually stay calm and reasonable. I know for me sometimes that emotion just overflows... It just does and that is ok too.

TL

 

[Copabanana]

I too think you did the right thing, really the only thing for your own health and sanity

Except for one thing. I waited until I exploded. I should have, the next morning, told him: You had your night. You need to make your next step for yourself.

The thing is what does me in is my own conflict about it all. There were moments he was here I was so grateful to have him close, to feel that he has mellowed somewhat, when he said that he thought he might be all alone, with nobody. I believed him.

As much as I want him to get how destructive is his behavior to himself and to others, I do not want him to believe he does not have a mother that loves him. I want to be the mother with open heart and arms. I know I cannot be.

Thank you.

COPA

 

[Tanya M]

Except for one thing. I waited until I exploded. I should have, the next morning, told him: You had your night.

Oh those pesky woulda, coulda, shoulda's. Copa, we all have our limits and even those who are calm and cool have a point where they too can lose their cool.
Your intentions were pure, to let your son stay the night. Had he shown respect for you and your home there would have been a different outcome. You lost your cool, it's okay. I and many others probably would have done the same thing.

I do not want him to believe he does not have a mother that loves him. I want to be the mother with open heart and arms. I know I cannot be.

Oh Copa, I'm sure he knows that you love him. He knows that you have always been there for him, he just may not want to admit it to you. You have always had your loving arms open for your son. The love we have for our children no matter how difficult they are, never ends. The love is always there.

((HUGS)) to you..................

 

[Ironbutterfly]

COPA, you have to learn to forgive yourself when you have those should have moments. I will share this you. Last summer when Difficult Child got out of fail. I picked him and brought him home with us for 4 days. I told him you have a choice. Go to Salvation Army or Teen Challenge and finish the program. If you do not, I will no longer be your payee. You are free to go back to your town and live your life and figure out the money aspect on your own. Here are organizations there that will be your payee. I love you- but this is all I will do for you. Well- I wanted him to go to my state for Salvation Army vs. back to his town, where all his "druggie friends" were. He begged husband and I to let him go back to his town to Salvation Army because he had his Christian Rocks for support. If he went in my state he would have no support. Hard for them to come visit him, etc. Husband and thought about it over night. Prayed. Made our decision. We allowed him to go back to his town so his Pastors and Christian friends could support him and rally him on. Welllllllllllll. He lasted one day- was back to ole neighborhood and his life was a crap storm again. I cried, beat myself over that decision. I should have never sent him back into the Lions den. For months I carried that burden.

Then a friend talked to me- and wised me up. He made his decision to leave the program. He would have left no matter what town, city he went to. He would have found a way. He conned us good- even using the Christian excuse to do it.

Fast forward. He left the state 6 months later and is living so much better. He left the Lions den. I am no longer his payee. He is figuring out things for himself. He is happier then I have seen him in years. We talk couple times a week. He is back to reading his bible. He is out of the crazy-ness, at least for now.

Let him go and find his own way. Quit second guessing, doing should have's. It will drive you insane, Our decisions and mistakes have a correct of correcting themselves- perhaps by a different fork in the road...but that fork can sometimes get you to that good place, albeit, just with a small detour.