I Need Some Advice

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by Bunny, Dec 14, 2012.

  1. Bunny

    Bunny Guest

    At easy child's IEP meeting the other day I asked what would happen if easy child takes the state tests and does poorly on them because he does not have enough time to complete the tests (one of the things that his teacher stressed was that he constantly needs extra time to finish things) and I was told that if that happens he will be referred for remedial math and reading. The more I thought about that, the more it made no sense to me because, as they pointed out to me numerous times, easy child is getting A's and B's in everything. What would putting him remedial classes accomplish when what he clearly needs is TIME? So, I sent an e-mail to the school psychologist asking this question.

    His answer was that remedial classes is what they do for kids who do poorly in the tests. Again, I asked that since he seems to have a good grasp on the material, what would this accomplish? It does not address the problem that he needs more time. He said that they only give more time to kids who have that written into an IEP and a 504 plan, which I pointed out was what I was trying to accomplish for easy child. So it seems that we're in a cycle. They won't give him extra time because he's making good grades, but if he does poorly on the tests because he doesn't have enough time he will get remiedial classes, which make no sense to me because he's got good grades. He said I should e-mail the head of special education and ask her my question.

    I'm not sure how to word what I want to say to her (other than the fact that I think she's an idiot, but something tells me that I really need to leave that out. LOL!). It's clear that at this point I'm not going to get what I want (a 504 stating that easy child gets additional time on timed activities and tests), so should I even bother to e-mail her anyway?
  2. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    Bunny... You need an advocate. Really, that is what the school is "saying" but won't come out and say in words.

    Your kid doesn't fit their neat little "boxes".
    He needs help - of a type that is absolutely available, and absolutely necessary, and doesn't even cost much.
    To get it, he needs an IEP.

    To get the IEP... you need an advocate.

    Can you contact your state department of education, tell them what you've just told us... and the things you've already tried... and ask THEM how to proceed? Or does your state have advocate available... and do the same thing with an advocate?

    Somebody WAY above the school needs to kick some backsides.
  3. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    by the way... out here in our "way behind the world" world that I live in... even HERE... The simple accommodation of "more time" is given out really freely... because it costs almost nothing. Don't even need complex tests or diagnoses. Kid who must push to meet the clock and does poorly... and is given more time and does well... clearly needs more time. If our system has to spend real money (aides, technology, etc.) it's much harder to get. If WE can get it... there's no way your difficult child should have to do without.
  4. Ktllc

    Ktllc New Member

    I just went through the whole process of getting V a 504 plan.
    It is a very strict protocole and most of the questions that need to be answered to determined elegibility are addressed to the teacher. The teacher answers yes or no. If there is an oficial diagnosis and there are enough yes (stating an impairement), then the kids gets a 504.
    The big question for V was: would he function and learn the same way if the teacher was to stop providing informal accomodations. The answer was CLEARLY yes.
    So it does go a bit deeper than his current grades. If the teacher constantly gives him more time to do the work and she can't stop doing it without easy child failling, then he should be able to have a 504 which would protect him for discrimination during tests.
    The 504 does not change the instruction itself, just the way it is presented so that the child is not at a disadvantage because of his disability.
    Do you have an official diagnosis sating a disability (physical, mental or learning disability?).
  5. Bunny

    Bunny Guest

    Yes, he does. The school has copies of everything, but what they are telling me is that he's doing too well to get any accomodations, including extra time.

    I just called the state department of education. i was told that the person who deals with my district was out in the field today, but the person who answered the phone took my name and number and I was told that they would call me back on Monday. We'll see.
  6. svengandhi

    svengandhi Well-Known Member

    Bunny -

    I am also on LI. The state does not permit accommodations on the 3 - 8 tests, even if the child gets them otherwise. They are allowed once you get to the Regents exams. I had an issue with PC16 and babyboy 13. easy child was diagnosed with dyslexia in K. They used to tell me to keep him home for the state tests but I refused because he wanted to go.

    In the past couple of years, the state passed the AIS (Academic Intervention Services) rules. If you get a 1 or 2 on math or English, it is mandatory to go into AIS the next school year. It didn't affect difficult child because he's now in HS but babyboy got a 2 in English and was placed in AIS AND resource room this year. He's in 8th grade. We just amended his IEP to take him out of RR. He will be getting consultant indirect and they are training him on Dragon Naturally Speaking, which he loves. He did AIS for one quarter and was discharged this quarter because he 1) got an A in English and 2) is much higher functioning than the other kids and the teacher didn't want to spend time on him. He will be back in next quarter over his objections to do test prep so he will hopefully get a 3. They plan to drop him again in quarter 4. I was told that it's not really allowed but the school will take care of it.

    Babyboy gets extra time on school tests and he is running A's and B's, including a B+ on HS level earth science.
  7. Bunny - If you have a copy of difficult child's test results look and see if there is anything in there about PSI (Processing Speed Index) and/or Visual Motor Integration and/or Executive Function Disorder. All of these cause problems with time.

    Low processing speed is like a Commodore 64 trying to run a Windows Vista program - it's going to take much much longer to load the information.

    Visual motor integration - difficulty taking in information visually, processing it and reproducing it on paper or physically. This can cause problems with handwriting. If a child is focused on their handwriting then the quality/quantity of their work can suffer.

    Executive Function Disorder - An inability to organize themselves - both in the real world of keeping their belongings together, keeping track of appointments, as well as organizing thoughts to get them down on paper.

    Any of these diagnosis should be enough to get 'extra time' written into the IEP or 504.

    I am with Insane - giving extra time is a pretty simple fix and given freely where we live. My easy child daughter gets extra time because she has all of the above diagnosis as well as dyscalculia. But she gets the extra time for everything, including assignments. We don't take advantage of it unless she absolutely needs to - but she does it for tests. She takes her test to the special education room next to her class and takes her time getting it done. Sometimes this means staying in for a recess but taking the pressure off makes a huge difference.
  8. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    I think things are much different in Canada than they are in the US. Now I got very lucky with Jamie in elementary school because I didnt have to fight for a 504, his teachers just did an informal one without any of us having to sit through it. I did have to go through the entire process though for my oldest because he did have an IEP for learning disabled but academically gifted. The elementary school handled that well but when he hit middle school here the idiot Learning Disability (LD) teacher tried to inform me that label didnt exist...lol. If you were Learning Disability (LD), you couldnt be gifted. Sigh. I could have strangled her.

    My way of dealing with issues with Special Education issues was to park my rear down at the office of exceptional children. It got so bad they just knew when I walked in the door they would get on the phone and call back to tell the head that I was there again. It did help that we live in a fairly small town and the man had coached one of our ball teams at one time.

    I would simply refuse to take no for an answer. Your kid needs this and it impacting his school performance. His grades have zero to do with it. Actually I think those tests have more to do with how the schools are graded than how he is graded to be honest. At least if those are the tests I am thinking they are. If they are, I would inform him that I would suggest to your son to do as poorly on the tests as humanly possible to bring the schools grades down. Fire with fire ya know.
  9. svengandhi

    svengandhi Well-Known Member

    Welcome -

    I think Bunny's issue with the New York State testing, which does not allow for accommodations, is separate from her issue trying to get in-school accommodations. For the school setting, your approach is excellent. That's how I got accommodations for my dyslexic son, whose verbal IQ is 133 but who has really low processing speed.

    Bunny -

    If you need a good advocate, PM me and I'll give you a name. I used her once but my oldest son refused the compromise she helped us reach. My friend has used her for years with her autistic son, who is now in HS.
  10. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    Definitely, he needs a 504 that says he can have more time.
    You've gotten some good ideas here.
  11. svengandhi

    svengandhi Well-Known Member

    The problem in NYS is that there is no type of accommodation, not extra time, not scribing or anything else, is given during the state tests. You can get extra time for the Regents exams but that's HS.
  12. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    You have GOT to be kidding?
    So, a kid who's quad and can't do a thing for herself... can't even have a scribe? Really?
    If that was tried here (in backwoods dinosaur country) you'd have one of: mutiny, major poitical backlash, or a lawsuit (and in Canada, that's a big statement because we aren't lawsuit-oriented).
  13. JJJ

    JJJ Active Member

    That would be illegal, as the federal government so kindly pointed out to NYS in 2006. Here is quite a bit of info..

  14. 1905

    1905 Well-Known Member

    Ther are so many types of help they give to so may kids, your child should definately be able to get more time. Certain kids can use manipulatives, number lines, etc...,some have the test read to them, extra time etc..During testing time, every space in building is used to accomodate these special needs.

    I know for a fact it has to be written in to the IEP. Is he given extra time to complete work during the school day?
  15. confuzzled

    confuzzled Member

    jjj beat me to it....i was just about to post that same, very informative link. its also loaded with "buzzwords"....read through it and pick out what applies.

    but of course its illegal...NYS isnt some yet annexed from the rest of states ;-).
  16. confuzzled

    confuzzled Member

    bunny...out of curiosity, is the only testing in play that of your private NP? did the school formally evaluate your easy child? i'm wondering if that is partially why you are having so much difficulty with getting an iep/504. i'm getting the impression you are trying hard to play nice and its backfiring. the school has to consider your private evaluation but i'm about positive they dont have to take it as gospel....and if the only other supporting evidence you have is the word of one teacher its giving your district an awful lot of wiggle room.
    get an advocate :wink:
    i might consider requesting, in writing, a formal educational evaluation throught the school in the suspected area of disability to include everything you can possibly add to the request--sp, Occupational Therapist (OT), pt, auditory proc (he's old enough), edu, psy, and so forth and so forth. there are specific timelimes that have to be met to accomodate your request....the school just cant ignore it because you have private testing.
    get an advocate :wink:
    good grades alone dont mean that a child has no educational impact from their disability--the key is to figure out what IS impacting it and what needs to be done. young children very often can overcompensate for their disabilities and it sometimes doesnt become really clear until something drastic happens.
    get an advocate :wink:
    but on the other hand, know that you will need to demonstrate what *IS* impacting him. you cant just say, oh, well, he's disabled and therefore deserves an iep. it will need to be somewhat tangible---your private np should have given a thorough report with his reccomendations to give you an idea.
    get an advocate :wink:
    if it were me, i might have a private word with this oh-so-helpful teacher and see if she can stop the INFORMAL modifications. that isnt helping your case either because while she means well, what happens if the next teacher isnt so accomodating? its sort of counter productive, Know what I mean?? he's appearing to be successful because of it. at the very least, ask her to document, document, document what she is doing and how to perhaps show a pattern of need--if she always gives him 10 min extra time, she should have a list of dates, assignment, extra time needed to complete, etc.
    get an advocate :wink:
    maybe this is really off base, but its just the sense i'm getting from your posts. sometimes we parents need to stop being nice and force them to do what is legally mandated.
    but did i mention you might need an advocate?
  17. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    Good points, Confuzzled.
    This is useful to me, since I will be getting our school to do a study soon. Although it is a HS.
    Best of luck, Bunny. Stick with it!