I need some advice

[I'm going crazy!!!]

difficult child is in the habit of yelling and it's very verbally abusive. I have tried putting him in his room but he just starts to tear stuff up. Last night i put him on our bed while I was reading posts on this site and told him I would turn cartoons on when he stopped yelling well that did not work so I just let him yell and throw a fit the worse thing he did in my opinion was take the bottom sheet half way off i let this go on for a little while and only speaking to him when he started to mess with other things in the room or would get off the bed. This morning husband made the comment that he did not think difficult child should be allowed to yell at anyone or call anyone those names and he feels that difficult child knows what he is doing because every time I would get up he would start begging not to be whipped and he was also saying he would stop if I would let him take a shower and watch cartoons. I told husband I did not want to whip him because everything I've read shows that this is only good for the short term and makes things worse in the long run. I believe difficult child will eventually figure out that hollering will not get him his way and hopefully he will stop but from what I've read that's kinda how these type of kids communicate when they're mad. I did eventually (once he started to calm down) ask him to come over and sat him in my lap for some TLC and told him that he needed to calm down which of course he responded that he was calm (he was sweating he had gotten so upset), I asked him if he thought he should apologize to me for all of the names he called me and he did without hesitation and without anger which to me equals sincerety (sp?). He then was allowed his shower and to watch cartoons. I just don't know what to tell husband. This is how I use to handle tantrums when he was little and they were expected and difficult child did get over them. Please any advice would be much appreciated

 

[nvts]

Oh for Pete's sake! He's only 6! Man, I remember having to "sit" on difficult child 1 when he was 3 or so because he was like a mad man (which was just about every other day!).

If it calms him, calm him. It doesn't mean that you approve of his choices, it means that you recognize the fact that you're not going to get through to him while he's raging. Then after he's able to make sense, you make it clear that you will not put up with it.

I can tell you from experience that a spanking does nothing with our kids than to instill irrational fear that will mess with him for years to come.

You did a great job (in my humble opinion!) and hubby needs to stop "arm-chair quarterbacking" and let you do what's right!

Sorry for picking on him, I'm just in a mood!!! :nonono:

Beth

 

[Hound dog]

difficult child needs to have consequences for this behavior. Regardless of whether you spank or don't spank. difficult child needs to get a clear picture that you will NOT accept this sort of behavior from him. You need to have a firm set of rules, along with appropriate punishments for breaking those rules. And be consistant.

If he were my child, there would have been NO cartoons. Not after a production like that.

Hugs

 

[I'm going crazy!!!]

that's ok i was in a mood when i wrote this and you just made me laugh with "hubby needs to stop "arm-chair quarterbacking""

 

[I'm going crazy!!!]

thanks for your honesty and i'll think about it next time and maybe even try it but it has just made matters worse in the past we are in the process of looking into family counseling but we want to make sure we have the right counselor for us and difficult child please feel free to be open and honest i quit taking comments and suggestions personal a long time ago if it works and it's not harmful for us or difficult child i'm willing

 

[Janna]

Giving a consistent, firm, fair consequence may be a headache short term, but if you stick with it day after day and do not get angry, and stay firm, do what you say and say what you mean, after a while it may work.

I agree with Lisa ~ none of my children disrespect me that way. Their butt would be sitting at the table all night long writing apology notes to me and everyone else they tried to be rude to.

They wouldn't have TV for a week, never mind a day.

 

[TerryJ2]

he feels that difficult child knows what he is doing because every time I would get up he would start begging not to be whipped and he was also saying he would stop if I would let him take a shower and watch cartoons.

Yep! Just like my difficult child. You've got to be totally consistent. He knows or he wouldn't be begging you, etc. The fact that you are letting him sit on your bed is even too permissive, in my humble opinion. You don't need to spank him. You just need to enforce the rules you already have.

I told husband I did not want to whip him because everything I've read shows that this is only good for the short term and makes things worse in the long run.

Yes, with-his temperament, it will make it worse.

I believe difficult child will eventually figure out that hollering will not get him his way

Not by osmosis! Only by total consistency and unbelievably hard work on your part. been there done that, still doing it! Sigh.
If I could go back in time, I would nip things in the bud much earlier, take more time to make it right, because I had no idea that it would be so much harder later, for every time I slacked off.

You and your husband have to get on the same page. Again, been there done that.
Good luck!

 

[susiestar]

hon, go to http://www.loveandlogic.com and have a look-see. Read, listen, check it all out.

Have your husband check it out. This worked far better for us than the Explosive Child, simply because my husband was able to understand it and use it. it emphasized a loving relationship where natural consequences teach our children.

it might be interesting for both you and husband.

Susie

 

[Kjs]

Although I am not against spanking this did NOT work with my difficult child. He had some anger issues, and spanking made him angrier. I guess each kid responds different. What worked for us was taking things away. He had to earn them back.

Also, for us, I believe he did not have control. With the help of a mood stabalizer, and a lot of talking, he seems to have matured a lot and is able to handle his anger.

Give him some appropriate choices to make when he is angry. Let him know it is OK to be angry sometimes, but point out the appropriate options he has to release that anger.

He is very young. He may just not be mature enough to handle his emotions, therefore acting out.

Hope things work out. TLC is always rewarding when they respond.

 

[BusynMember]

I'm not against a swat on the butt if a toddler runs in the street, but "whipping" sounds like he'd use a rod or something and spank a bare butt--I'm very against that and so is social services. He could be asking for big trouble. I don't think difficult children respond to being hit. As they get older, that can teach them to hit others and even attack adults back. I had to witness a difficult child teen attack his father after his father made a menacing move towards him. The police got called and they both got a warning about getting nailed for domestic abuse (difficult child was 17). Father would often try to get physical with his son. Strangely, difficult child would listen more to his mother, who had ironclad consistent rules and never used physical force. He still respects her and resents his father (he is 30 now and doing a lot better--he has Aspergers). I don't spank because easy child's don't need that sort of discipline, difficult children don't benefit from it, and in my opinion it's just plain wrong and sends the wrong message to a child. And you can get into big trouble if there is a bruise on your kid. At least you can in Illinois and Wisconsin. A neighbor turned me in after babysitting for my bi-racial daughter because she thought her Mongolian spot was a bruise :smile: They were all over us like bats outta hell until they saw it. One of the caseworkers who came to investigate was AA and she laughed. But don't underestimate that you can be seen as unfit if you whack your kid and social services finds out, at least around these parts. I've heard it's different in the south. Maybe you can do it where you live, but I know you could get in serious trouble up here.

 

[I'm going crazy!!!]

I'm not against a swat on the butt if a toddler runs in the street, but "whipping" sounds like he'd use a rod or something and spank a bare butt

no just a belt which i personally have nothing against when used appropriately and when it will actually do more good than harm it's what was used on me but only about 5 or 6 times my whole life and only for major stuff like lying and such

I've heard it's different in the south. Maybe you can do it where you live

for the most part "corporal punishment" is withheld in this state the rules are below the waist and no bruises but it all depends on who witnesses it and who gets called in as to how much fuss is made over it

I strongly believe in whipping, spanking what ever you want to call it but only when used appropriately

Give him some appropriate choices to make when he is angry. Let him know it is OK to be angry sometimes, but point out the appropriate options he has to release that anger.

i can't seem to get through to him when he gets this way that's why i usually just let him vent and then tell him his behavior was inappropriate and uncalled for

hon, go to http://www.loveandlogic.com and have a look-see. Read, listen, check it all out. Have your husband check it out. it might be interesting for both you and husband.Susie

thank you so much i'm gonna check this out right now

thank ya'll so much for your advice i feel like i'm in the dark most of the time especially without physical punishment it's so hard because that's how i was raised and i do feel it's ok when used appropriately but i do understand and believe it's not what's best for my difficult child even if i do get the immediate results i want i can see now that he's terrified i will whip him and i don't want him to be scared just respectful again thank ya'll

 

[ShakinThingzUp]

Here's an option for tantrums/rages... I learned this method through a foster mom friend while she was "coaching" me through my daughters healing process for Reactive Attachment Disorder (RAD) (lots of rages and destructive to her room when put in "time out", etc.)

We used "Time Out With a Twist" and found great results, gradually.

To begin, you start by explaining the process to the child & that its the new "system" or rule or however you want to call it. You sit down when he's being good and have a "chat," and tell him how it should work.

You pick a spot - usually in the center of the house, where activities are going on around him... not isolated. In my house it was the middle of the hallway. I placed a small chair there, and gave my daughter the option of the chair or the floor beside it.

That is the "Time Out" spot.

Whenever she misbehaved, I said "Time Out." You are to say nothing else..... do not yell, do not demand they go, and do not lose your temper. Simply say TIME OUT with a gentle smile...

The rule was that she IMMEDIATELY had to go to the time out spot and sit, quietly. She had to make it to the chair without stomping, whining, or yellling, and sit there quietly.

But, here's the twist. As soon as her cute little butt hit that chair she could get up if she wanted to. All she had to was:
A - Come to me and apologize.
B - Tell me what she did wrong.
C - Tell me what she should've done when she got mad, instead of what she did do.

Then, she could be-bop off to play if she wanted.

It doesn't seem like much, but it is....... its really hard for a kid to tell you themselves what they did wrong (to admit it) ON THEIR OWN...... sometimes they will sit in that spot and whine and moan and groan for a long time rather than admit they did something wrong.

Meanwhile........... you go on about your business... do the laundry, cook dinner... everyone in the house is to walk right past and ignore the whining child acting silly.

Every once in a while, I would stop and with a smile and love in my eyes tell my daughter "You know you can get up anytime you want, the only person holding you in that chair is you."

The first few weeks my daughter would throw rages right in that spot pretty much.... but, gradually, she tested it out, to see if I was telling the truth --- if I would really just let her go back to play after apologizing, etc. I kept to my word, showing her she could TRUST my word (which was part of the problem... she didn't trust me).

It helped very much to improve her behavior beyond the meltdowns... Then, we were on to the next stage of bad behavior...

God Bless!
Amy

 

[ShakinThingzUp]

Oh......... I forgot the most important part!!!

Whining, stomping & yelling are grounds for you to say "TIME OUT" again.. and they go right back to the chair until they sit there quietly and THEN apologize.

I explained this in our original chat...... then I told her I would ease into that part and give her a chance to get used to it. Basically, the first week, I didn't send her back for the whining on the way there, but warned her "next week, you'll have to go back to the spot until you are quiet and can apologize for THAT behavior too."

That part teaches them to take your discipline without raging back at you...

God Bless!
Amy

 

[I'm going crazy!!!]

thanks amy i'll try that and pass it on to my hubby the part he cant stand is the rages and i know the rages come from not being able to deal with what's going on and once you get rid of the rages you can deal with what's going on if that makes any sense cause i lost myself lol IT'S FRIDAY YEAAAAAAAAAAAA

 

[Big Bad Kitty]

OK, am I the only one who is uncomfortable reading this?

I'm not judging anybody, my mom beat me with whatever was handy, be it a broom, a yardstick, a wooden spoon, heck she used to bite my hands to keep me from blocking my face so she could smack me there.

That didn't make it right.

I'm sorry, I don't think that it is E-V-E-R appropriate to hit a child with a belt. There is no appropriate way to use a belt except to keep your pants up. Something big like lying? All kids lie. When they do, instead of taking a belt to their bottom, give them the chance to tell the truth. Tell them "you know, I think I know what the truth is, and I don't think you are telling it. You will get in a lot less trouble if you tell me the truth, even if it is bad, than if you lie. Lying is mommy's LEAST favorite thing!"

If it is really you who is administering these whippings, please don't. There are other ways, and lots and lots of mommies here to give advice. If it is your husband, then you have some decisions to make.

 

[victorearose]

Hugs to everyone this beautiful morning.

I was looking at autism-pride t-shirts last night and loved the ones that said "parenting advice not welcome unless you have an autistic child".

Isn't it nice to be able to come to a place for advice from people who have been there, are still there, and doing it? I love that everyone giving Chrystal advice didn't judge ... everyone just says what seems to work for them. It is cool.

In my experience, I have not found any one thing that miracously works. I find what doesn't work. The Explosive Child did not work. Spanking & taking away toys does not work. Bribing for good behavior works - especially when asking for help with housework. Firmly telling him to "STOP" will work if he is entering full melt-down. Then, giving space and not interacting or touching until he is calm. Then he cleans up his mess, apologizes, etc. to accept responsibility for what occurred during the meltdown. Then we talk about what to do next time this happens. We save consequences (losing computer, game boy, tv) if he threatens or actually hurts someone else or property. Usually, being vigilant to plan ahead, coach and prep him for what is coming up and discussing what to do if things don't go his way and if he needs some space. Having his game-boy and books with us on outings helps. Giving him space works best. It takes 2-3 times the amount of mental and emotional energy to parent the difficult child, doesn't it?

I found a book I want to start doing, I think, called "The Amazing 5-point scale". You focus on a behavior that needs to be changed such as control of emotions. "5" means totally out of control, "1" means totally calm. You talk to difficult child and decide which each number means and carry a card with the scale or use fingers ... check in with each other. If difficult child is 3, prompt him to take deep breaths; if 4, get to a quiet place, etc.

Anyway, just know we are all very awesome parents and support people for our difficult child's. Take some time for your self today. I personally, am going to see my massage therapist. The nurturing I get at my sessions is so awesome.

YOU ARE AWESOME!!! Ignore everyone else ... you are doing the best you know for your difficult child. You know what is best. You deserve the gold medal!

Tressa

 

[susiestar]

BBK, you are NOT the only one who is uncomfortable. Using a belt to beat a child will NOT get a more respectful child. It may have years ago, but I doubt it.

I know that if you use a belt the ONLY lessons that are given to the child are to be very AFRAID of the people who should shield him from the bad stuff in life. AND that it is OK to hit someone you are supposed to love and care for.

I can honestly say that I have NEVER known it to work any other way, especially especially especially for our difficult children.

difficult children DO NOT THINK THE WAY WE DO OR DID AS CHILDREN. This is WHY they are difficult children!!!

The time out with a twist is one thing. I think it is AWESOME and will happily do it with thank you as needed.

i know the rages come from not being able to deal with what's going on

This makes me stongly think there may be some sensory issues. Please look up info on Sensory Integration Disorder and see what you think. We have a lot of info on the site, and there is a lot more on the net. Good (awesome) books for this are The Out Of Sync Child and The Out of Sync Child has Fun by Kranowitz.

Please investigate this. There are non-medication ways to help with sensory issues so that your child CAN cope with what is going on around him. It may very well lead to a child who rages far less. been there done that and the rewards are amazing.

Susie

 

[Star*]

IGC,

I think you've been given a lot of good advice - what I think you need to pull it all together is a plan. I'm not trying to step on toes and would never tell you how to parent, but...you need a plan and then you need to stick to the plan however difficult it is on everyone.

In trying to explain this I'm going to use a road map analogy. When engineers build a highway (your sons brain) they map out location, elevation, conditions etc. This is much like your sons brain being developed. And in the development stages of a highway maps are drawn so that everyone else can see where the road is, and how the exits are laid out. When a child is developing physically they are also developing a 'map' of their brain.

In difficult child children somewhere, for some reason the engineers plan doesn't jive with the cartographers plan. Thus creating a virtual nightmare for driver. Imagine if the road map that you were given did NOT match the highways you were driving down. THAT is a difficult child brain. Their map doesn't match their engineering. If you think road rage is ugly just look at your difficult child - raging? Yes? Bad map.

So can the map be changed? Yes. Does it happen quickly? No. How long does it take the DOT to rebuild a road? First there would have to be planning meetings - everyone would have to be on the same page about what is the best solution to make the road match the map. So architects are hired (like psychologists and counselors) to take a look over the situation (your child) and determine a long term plan to repair the problem that is causing all the drivers to rage (your child not understanding why the square peg does not fit in the triangle hole).

After much debate, planning and drawing a plan is created (or a TSP total service plan) for your child. This will have the how to's of the proposed road repair (or trying to remap your childs brain). Trying to repair a road to match a map or repair a map to match a road? Either are NO easy task, they don't happen overnight, there will be changes midstream to accommodate glitches and such, but for the most part when you build a road, or a house or a building you stick to the plan. Why would we think that re-mapping a child's brain would be any different?

Think about this for a minute - if you went to work 8-5 M-F and no one EVER showed you the written rules, the handbook of the job required, the consequences for not showing up on time or leaving early it would be what? Chaos? Or better yet in comparison to raising childre - what if the rules changed to fit the mood of the day? HOW are the kids supposed to know what they can expect if you don't stick to the rules? We get so tired and exhausted trying to make our kids behave on a larger scale that we forget to start small. If you want the road redone you don't just go out in the middle of the highway and start digging a hole - you plan, execute, and finish. So why is it any different in our homes? It should not be. Write out a set of rules, rewards and consequences and stick them up where everyone can see and understand if A happens B will ensue. If A never happens today then the reward will be C. And then stick to it.

My biggest mistake as a single parent was trying to be both Mom and Dad. Then trying to fix a child who's brain wasn't bad, it just worked differently. I didn't understand that. I figured if there were a pill or 18 months in an Residential Treatment Center (RTC) it would ALL BE DONE. It may have only taken 18 months for your child to develop a brain that was mapped different - due to his environment, genetic make up, trauma (who knows) trying to figure that out will make you nuts but it will take the better part of the next 12-15 years with constant and consistent rules, discipline and parenting to change it even the tiniest bit.

This is why I always encourage you to go to therapy/counseling and we were in counseling ourselves - 11 years of it. I went & took DF so that we could LEARN how to deal with this child, so we could LEARN how to level the playing field and have our son be successful someday. So that I could have a marriage someday. I took parenting classes and talked with a live person who had years of experience dealing with severely autistic kids, people in the prison systems - I searched for the psychiatric. that I knew would listen to OUR story and not namby-pamby the answers - I wanted someone who HAD answers for dealing with a child like mine. Not someone who had NO CLUE.

Spanking = Nope. It just tells the little person that the big person can beat them up or that hitting is appropriate. As far as the occasional swat to get someones attention? You betcha. Never more than 3.

And as far as DF not understanding - well my thought is/was this. I didn't understand my kid either - who did? The psychologist. So I took DF and let the psychiatric explain my child to DF. Then he got interested in going so that we could literally out wit this kid. The last 3 years of "parental planning" worked better and changed our sons life more than all of it - but it would not have worked if our "planning" hadn't been in place to change the map in this kids head. It took a long time - and my goals changed for my son but I survived and now difficult child is 17 and on his own.

As far as bargaining with your son? KNOCK IT OFF or you'll be sorry. Rules, consequences and rewards SHORT TERM. And the next time he is obscene DO NOT ASK if he thinks he should apologize - YOU ARE THE MOM - TELL HIM WHAT HE IS SUPPOSED TO DO. And stop saying THANK YOU after he does something you want too. He just needs to BE TOLD, DO it - and his reward isn't thank you - it's a nod or a smile later.

These are things I learned the hard way - I hope you find something in here to help your situation, but I can not stress enough the importance of a good therapist for all of you. After a while I 'lived' to go once a week and have a "blow out' about my son, life etc. It was enlightening and I learned better coping skills for life.

Hugs
Star

 

[I'm going crazy!!!]

OK, am I the only one who is uncomfortable reading this?

I'm not judging anybody, my mom beat me with whatever was handy, be it a broom, a yardstick, a wooden spoon, heck she used to bite my hands to keep me from blocking my face so she could smack me there.

That didn't make it right.

I'm sorry, I don't think that it is E-V-E-R appropriate to hit a child with a belt. There is no appropriate way to use a belt except to keep your pants up. Something big like lying? All kids lie. When they do, instead of taking a belt to their bottom, give them the chance to tell the truth. Tell them "you know, I think I know what the truth is, and I don't think you are telling it. You will get in a lot less trouble if you tell me the truth, even if it is bad, than if you lie. Lying is mommy's LEAST favorite thing!"

If it is really you who is administering these whippings, please don't. There are other ways, and lots and lots of mommies here to give advice. If it is your husband, then you have some decisions to make

first off thank you so much for your opinion and i'm sorry you were abused as a child
what i'm about to say is not to dismiss anything you have said you have some very good reasons for feeling the way you do but this info is just to let you know what i've tried and the results i've gotten and that i'm trying really hard to change
the next comment is sarcasm at it's best but i won't erase it because i feel pure honesty is the only way to get the best out of all the resources i have found so yes i have used the following for biting, cussing, spitting, and a few other things but he also knew it was coming
i guess you don't approve of washing a child's mouth out with soap either
the whole "i don't think you are telling the truth" he would just argue that he was and i didn't know what i was talking about and he won't think there's any reason for him to get in trouble since he's not lying in the first place and he doesn't care what mommy likes or doesn't like that's mommy's problem
i don't whip difficult child anymore but i really want to because i know it will stop everything right now and make my life a lot easier but i also know it will do him much more harm in the long run

 

[I'm going crazy!!!]

BBK, you are NOT the only one who is uncomfortable. Using a belt to beat a child will NOT get a more respectful child. It may have years ago, but I doubt it.

I know that if you use a belt the ONLY lessons that are given to the child are to be very AFRAID of the people who should shield him from the bad stuff in life. AND that it is OK to hit someone you are supposed to love and care for.

I can honestly say that I have NEVER known it to work any other way, especially especially especially for our difficult children.

difficult children DO NOT THINK THE WAY WE DO OR DID AS CHILDREN. This is WHY they are difficult children!!!

thank you for your reply
I DO NOT BEAT MY CHILD AND I DO NOT APPRECIATE YOU TWISTING MY WORDS OR INSINUATING THAT I DO AND MY SON WILL TELL YOU HE IS NOT AFRAID OF HIS MOTHER THANK YOU VERY MUCH IT WORKED FOR ME BUT I WAS NOT A difficult child I WAS CLOSER TO A easy child
with that being said i know that difficult children don't think the way we do that's why i am trying to change the way i discipline him but to do that i have to change the way i think

i know the rages come from not being able to deal with what's going on

This makes me stongly think there may be some sensory issues. Please look up info on Sensory Integration Disorder and see what you think. We have a lot of info on the site, and there is a lot more on the net. Good (awesome) books for this are The Out Of Sync Child and The Out of Sync Child has Fun by Kranowitz.Please investigate this. There are non-medication ways to help with sensory issues so that your child CAN cope with what is going on around him. It may very well lead to a child who rages far less. been there done that and the rewards are amazing.Susie

thank you for this resource i will be sure to check it out