I need to be tied to the mast.

[Smithmom]

You said that if he became a father it might turn him around. The paternal instinct might be so strong that it would be his motivation to change.

My kid who I define as homeless only has one motivation to his own place. His dog. The woman whose couch he's on now kicked out his dog recently in one of her rages. The dog came here and my son was desperately looking for his own place. She came to her senses in a couple of days. So son back to happiness on the couch

If your son had a pet....downside is that he might choose to stay homeless rather than a shelter that doesn't allow pets.

No ideas but is there some way to get your son to find motivation in a pet?

 

[Copabanana]

is there some way to get your son to find motivation in a pet?

No. We have 3 pets and he loves them but that is it.

For him to be a parent, the usual way is to have a partner. He seems to have renounced this. He is very handsome and charming but he has Body Dysmorphic Disorder, centered on balding.

I am having a hard time. It is like I am operating as somebody who can be programmed. I can't reconcile your posts with Kalahou's. At the same time I am able to hear the wisdom of both of you. And Elsi's too. And because I can't reconcile the voices, I feel like there are deep crevices in me, because I am not operating from something deeply felt in me. Because I am warding it off.

I have such a deep grief.

I think my overtures to him were in some way manipulative. What I would want to say is: What is going on? What are you doing? Wake up! Stop this. Please! However illogical and even mean that would be, it would be a true voice from me. Another true voice would be, self-centered: Your killing me. I can't stand this. Make this stop.

Believe me. I will not write from either one of these places but that is what would be true.

I do not know how you, Smithmom and Elsi, find that tranquil, peaceful, detached voice. And I guess that is the answer. You detach. And you recognize detachment is a process. We wax and wane, as Kalahou says. Or we relapse. And we have to, too, recover ourselves. Thank you.

 

[BusynMember]

Never underestimate their willingness to make us feel bad.

 

[Nature]

Hi Copa,.

I had the same worries as you when my kid was on the streets. I couldn't allow myself to be happy when my son was somewhere out there in the cold. Notice I said "I couldn't allow myself to be happy?" Yes, I took his problems on as my own but as a mom who'd want to see their child suffer? It was tortuous and heartbreaking. I took stress leave from work.

While I could never allow him in my home again I did place him and his friend in a motel for the coldest weeks. While it appeased my mind it didn't really work towards solving any of his issues. I thought a warm bath and a place to stay would make him more aware that his drug use had caused his homelessness and the discomfort of being in the cold. When my credit card was maxed out after a six week stay at the motel he and his friend lived in a tent. They were soaked daily as I live in the rainy Pacific Northwest. I purchased an old van so at least he and his friend could avoid the wet weather. Again more for my benefit than theirs in many ways. What at first seemed like a comfortable place to sleep became filled with junk he and his friend found on their dumpster diving forays so much junk!...rotten food, soiled clothes, the smell was horrific.

He was just falling deeper and deeper into his addiction as now that he didn't have rent to pay all his monies were spent on drugs. In a nutshell while it was helping me...it wasn't helping him. Saying all that nothing would have changed and I clearly remember watching him walk away from me on a particular day with such a strong feeling that he was dying. He body had become so skeletal, his face ravaged by his constant picking, ....I realized my help had only contributed to his increase in drugs. A mixed blessing as he did collapse on the street that evening...dying from sepsis and spent 2 wks in intensive care. If I hadn't purchased the van he would have perished in the woods that night as without a phone the ambulance probably wouldn't have found him.

Yet, it was a mixed blessing because without that happening he would not be on the road to recovery at this time. He was forced by circumstances to change. Now with clearer mindset he often talks about his life of hell on the street and how he never wants to be cold and hungry again. It's only been 3 months so too early to tell if this is really it. He's spent the last 10 years of his life on the street with short stints at my home and the last 15 addicted to some drug or another.

I don't mean to hijack your post with my long winded rambles of my son but I felt I needed to give you a background. Like you I didn't want to see my child suffer in the cold. I admit I enabled although I often said it was more for my benefit than his and I needed to know where he was for my own sanity. That is true. You love your son and would do anything in this world to save him. How often have we heard - if our love could save them it would. He is your child, your heart your love and because of that he has the ability to wound you like no other. You are not responsible for his choices and logically I think you know that, emotionally it's much harder to deal with as his words cut through you like a knife. I wish I had the right answers for you but know I understand every emotion you are going through. No matter what your decision is I support you. Hugs from me.

 

[toughlovin]

Copa,

So one thing I have been thinking about .... I sent what felt to me like a loving message to my son after he lost his job and he has not responded and is not contacting me. My impulse is to keep texting him trying to get him to respond. I am holding back. One thought I had is no matter how I meant my response to him I have no idea how he took it or how he interpreted what I said. For whatever reason he is needed separation from me and does not want more contact with me right now. My fear this is because he is relapsing but maybe it is just him needing to not feel so dependent on me... who knows. But maybe I just need to respect that and wait for him to contact me. So I am wondering the same about your son. He seems to be making it clear that for right now he does not want to connect with you. Who knows why that is true. My guess is it really has nothing to do with you and everything to do with his own issues... but maybe just backing off and waiting for him to respond (like you told me) is the best thing you can do.

TL

 

[Smithmom]

No matter what anyone says you need to do what you feel is right, right for you and right for your son.

The ability to detach is individual. Yes, we can improve on our innate ability. But no one has the ability or improves on it at the same rate. I started improving my innate ability in 1988. My first experience with a mentally ill child was in 89. I've got a big head start on you.

There's nothing wrong with you, no holes or crevices. Just a lot of emotion, conflicting emotions. A plan is something we make to give us focus and direction. Its not necessary. If it doesn't help you, doesn't make you feel better, then don't bother. At some time you may be ready. Sometimes in the midst of turmoil we can't find our way out to peace. Give yourself time. One day at a time. You found calm yesterday. Look for it today.

 

[Copabanana]

Thank you everybody.

Hugs from me.

Thank you for sharing your story and hugs back to you, Nature. Thank you TL. It is helpful to know how you are thinking and responding. I am doing the same.

Smithmom. What would a plan look like? I mean I know what is a plan, but in this context, I do not know. I am thinking a plan needs to start with an intention, for myself, not him, and should begin with a desire, something I want that is attainable.

Maybe such an intention would be to demonstrate my desire to be connected to him. But that seems to have rubbed him the wrong way.

I need to have respect for what he says. I agree that what he writes to me could be functional, for him. But at the same time he is a man. Like Kalahou says, he is a man, who is making very clear he does not want a reciprocal relationship with me right now. Do I keep forcing myself on him?

This seems like a lack of respect on my part, and a not listening.

Maybe the intention could be something like staying present in myself. To stay attached to my own day. My own body. My own thoughts and needs. Maybe a respectful plan would be contacting him every 4 or 5 days and writing I love you. This asks for nothing. And it is rooted in me.

I don't know if he is blocking me.

I cannot remember a time like this. He is saying really: Get out of my life. I don't want you in it. Now.

It felt comfortable to me to back off completely, which I was doing for a couple of months, while he was homeless. That felt comfortable, until, in response to the recent threads that discussed loving connection without expectation, I began to wake up; my love began to wake up. I feel more confused again.

Thank you everybody.

 

[Elsi]

Copa I think you are being way too hard on yourself.

I do not know how you, Smithmom and Elsi, find that tranquil, peaceful, detached voice.

If you think I have mastered the art of detachment I am afraid I have you fooled. I am a long way from mastery. Like you, I find my equilibrium and then lose it again when something happens to throw me off. I found this board when I googled ‘my son is homeless and I don’t know what to do’ in a moment of despair. The last few weeks it’s been really hard to keep my balance.

I have had two living in chaos for a very long time. At one point N was also. Both my boys have been in prison. N almost died in an accident as a result of a DUI, and spent more than a year recovering from a Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI). His best friend did die. My marriage, as you know, was years of chaos. I’ve had years of practice detaching my feelings from my actions, as a matter of survival, and so I could do what I needed to do for my kids. It doesn’t mean the feelings go away, though.

Thinking about C being homeless - on the streets, not in a car or couch surfing, but sleeping on park benches homeless - is devastating to me. I want to stop it. I’ve tried to stop it. But it’s staring me in the face again, when his eviction day comes. I want so badly to jump back into rescue mode. But look where this last attempt ended up?

When I share my thoughts about what works for me, it is what I have learned works best, for me. It is what I do when I’m doing well. It doesn’t mean I always succeed in staying there. And it doesn’t mean that my balance is the right one for you.

I do not think you are broken. Or not anymore broken than any of us going through this with our kids. I also feel split, between a deep need to help my kids, and a deep need to protect myself.

A word on kids and pets as motivators: I think they both can be wonderfully motivating, for someone who is already well on the road to recovery. N is highly motivated to stay in his path in large part because he doesn’t want to hurt or lose his family. His wife has been very good for him. He loves being a father. But it would have been a disaster for him earlier in his recovery, or pre recovery. I know parenthood would be a terrible idea for C or S now. They both had cats before. Those cats are now dead, one hit by a car, one eaten by a coyote (we think). They were not well cared for and were allowed to fend for themselves in unsafe areas. I feel a lot of guilt over those cats. My kids were not ready for that level of responsibility, and I feel strongly that I should not have left the cats in those situations. They are living creatures with rights of their own, not tools for someone else’s recovery.

Our kids will have to find their own reasons for recovery. We can’t give them our reasons. And that hurts.

I think your instinct of pulling back is wise. For him, because he is letting you know that’s what he needs right now - to separate from you and figure things out on your own. And for you, because this level of contact and expectation is killing you. Give yourself permission to take care of you, and release yourself from taking responsibility for him right now. Give yourself permission to be ok, and to feel peace, regardless of what is happening with J right now.

I know it is not easy, and I have not mastered it. I am on this road with you.

Peace to you, Copa.

 

[Copabanana]

I think pulling back seems right for me, right now. Thank you Elsi.

Elsi. Have your kids been mad at you, rejected you?

Pulling back:

It keeps me from panic...and in a place that only barely wards off deep sadness.

I respect what he said, which was different versions of leave me alone.

I gets me back into my own life, my own self. And out of him. My power in me. My locus of control in me.

I did contact him and I did express love and hope. I planted that seed.


Who knows what will happen next. That feels like an expression of doubt. It could just as well be an expression of hope.

Thank you.

 

[Elsi]

Elsi. Have your kids been mad at you, rejected you?

Yes. At various times. When N was first in prison, and he was mad that I wouldn’t pay for a lawyer and do everything he asked. C five years ago when he had his DV charge and I wouldn’t bail him out. We were estranged for a while after that. S is very volatile and we go through periods of estrangement. They always come back, in time. But not because I have given in to their demands. Because I stood firm, but also let them know I would accept them back when they were ready. Giving into demands I have learned only leads to more demands. The relationship can only really heal when they are ready to come back just for the love and the relationship, not because they want something. They need to learn to see us something other than a means to an end for them.

I did contact him and I did express love and hope. I planted that seed.

I think that’s the important thing. Keep planting the seeds. Or sometimes I think of it as leaving breadcrumbs, to lead them home from the forest when they are ready.

I gets me back into my own life, my own self. And out of him. My power in me. My locus of control in me.

That’s all we really can control, isn’t it? Just ourselves. Our reactions. Our choices. We are allowed to be happy, even if they are not.

 

[Smithmom]

Oh no, I wasn't think of some grand plan. I was thinking of your intentions re communicating with him right now. Today. Contact him no more than once a day? Say good morning I love you every day. Every other day add a... I read about this place called xyz. Only respond if he says something positive? If its negative ignore it or I just wanted to say I love you that's all. Then ignore it? I don't know but I'm only thinking about a plan to respond the way that will get the best result for both of you. Reduce your guilt about an emotional response. Long term improvement in communication, where this will all lead is too much. Just today. Maybe just this week. He blocked you or not.

 

[Lil]

Copa,

I haven't spent a ton of time on the boards lately, having been really busy with various things and not really needing counsel myself. Really, I truly have a bit of superstition that I'll jinx myself if I spend time here, and will be back in, well, your shoes. But I do lurk and I do read and try to keep up with everyone and I do care...

I've read this whole thread through and the one thing I cut to quote was this:

Really. I have no control here. None at all.

That's the single, simplest, truest statement I've seen.

Dear, dear Copa, you can't control this. You can't change any thing about him at all.

I'm going to say what others have said to me, including you. He's a grown man. He CAN find shelter from the cold. He CAN find food. I suspect his texts are done purposely. This is the same man who squatted in your yard until you had to take legal action. I suspect his "leave me alone" and "I'm going to die" is done with a goal in mind...he's waiting for you to become desperate enough to tell him to come home.

You can certainly offer your apartment if he's willing to be clean and sober while he's there - but you can't make him accept and you can't enforce his sobriety if he comes. You could offer it no strings attached, as you've done before, but you have also ended up in the same situation - with a lack of control over his life that makes you nuts. When has ANY of your help with lodging worked out? Any of the options for YOU to take FOR him, would take you to a path you've been down so many times before.

I'm certainly in no position to judge or to offer sage advice. But the one thing I learned from this board is that the only person you can change, is you. The only person you can control is you. You are one of the many people who helped me see that.

I agree with those who said, give him hope. But that doesn't mean constant texts. Every couple days, send an I love you. He already knows that the door is open to your home if he takes the proper steps of getting and staying clean, and asking. He knows you'll say yes if he does the work first. The rest HAS to be up to him.

 

[Copabanana]

"I'm going to die" is done with a goal in mind...he's waiting for you to become desperate enough to tell him to come home.

Thank you Lil. I appreciate your caring and your wisdom.

The texts started again. Today he sent this:

Weeks later J became ill. Then he wasted away and died. A fantastic last sentence of a book, don't you think?

And more dramatic texts after, inferring suicide and the end, all with the same martyr, victim, passive tone.

Finally, I texted: What do you want?

He responds:

I want a home! A base from where I can start turning things around! Nothing can be accomplished living like this. A pathetic indigent walking around for all to see! I'll pay you $500 a month! Not even H (his best friend for 20 years) has time to hang out with me anymore! All of this because I came up short of some money!

I respond: To be in 20th you need to be completely drug free and in recovery, with the commitment from day one to stay clean and to be productive. You need a program in my opinion.

He responds: Like I said, goodbye.
____
He is not taking any responsibility. He chose to use all of his money on marijuana. To the point of stupor. We gave him two years, where in the entire period he paid $1000 in rent and utilities--in two years. He did not one thing to become sober or to be productive, that he was not pushed to do.

It is clear to me, too, (duh) he is using these suicide threats to manipulate and frighten me. It just makes me NOT want him back here. M is weakening. I told him: I do not want to be responsible to enforce an illusory recovery. He has to demonstrate a commitment to a recovery before he comes anywhere near me. M wanted to tell him: get clean and we will drug test everyday. NO!!!!

I won't be responsible. I won't be the enforcer. NO. He needs a 6 month program. To even talk about coming home.

He is being very cruel. The threats. The rejection. Calling me by my name.

He is deceiving himself that a house and a family will give him what he needs to turn this around. It never did. He does not get it. Or if he does, he is trying to deflect responsibility onto me.

But the thing is, this is really painful to me. I feel beaten up. I do not want to receive these cruel texts.

He does not want to take any responsibility at all.

Do I block him? I don't want to, but I want this to stop. He is beating me up and I am letting him. Or should I tell him to communicate with M, who he has not contacted in 10 weeks?

I wrote to him: I feel beaten up. If you walk to talk, please call M.

I kind of hate my son.

His latest text says he does not blame me, just his birth mom.

 

[BusynMember]

You can send him real options. He doesnt need to either be on the streets or in your house. He is on SSI. This affords him a lot of supports. I know this because of Sonic.

Your son can contact his case manager or, if he doesnt know who it is, he can and should contact the service provider for those with disabilities. If he or you dont know who that is, call Aging and Disabilities to find out. They know.

Once he contacts them, he will get massive help as a designated disabled young man. This includes Medicare and Medicaid for his doctors and if he wishes rehab. Sonic has both. They will work with him to find a job that he can handle with his disabilities but it wont pay so much that he will lose his SSI. They will find housing, Section 8. Sonic has a nice apartment....he got in as a person with developmental disabilities. People live there all their lives. Its really nice and not at all like assisted living. Its like a regular, nice apartment. He pays 1/3 of his income and NO utilities. He has a nurse to help him with appointments. My son has learned to do much himself but he also knows how to care for his needs. He has food share (just a little because he works AND gets SSI) so he cabs it (discount for disabled adults) to the food pantry. I am shocked at all the good food he is given. He eats fine. If he has any questions or needs help he calls his case manager. He has had many but all are attentive.

He is learning to depend on more than us and I feel safe for when I am gone. He has good supports. They dont stop when his father and I pass on.

I doubt smoking pot would negate your son's supports. It doesnt here and in CA pot is legal. Even though you hate it, and so do I, he can get tons of supports. SSI offers much.

Smithsmom said to send him hope. I agree. This is part of hope. Maybe not your wish for him, but he needs help and you need to breathe without worrying that your son is on the streets. SSI assures he will leap over waiting lists and have options besides you.

This is not a situation where either you care for him or he cares for himself. If he is willing, he may also get a payee. A case manager may push this. This makes me feel good that Sonic wont spend all his money. Sometimes this is court ordered. The payee works for the state.

I hope this gives you some hope. I know you think your son can do all this himself. He possibly can. But he isnt and you need peace.

Love and light!

 

[Lil]

Aw Copa... My heart goes out to you. I know this must be so very, very hard for you.

Hang in there.

 

[Copabanana]

Thank you. Swot. He gets SDI with an SSI supplement. He has been offered subsidized housing as far as I know, in more than one county. He says he does not like it because it is in bad areas. (What could be worse than this?) I pushed him to go to voc rehab. He would not follow through.

He has Medicare and Medicaid insurance through me. He knows about payees. We tried to get him a payee through social security. Social Security said no.

I will tell him to go to homeless services in the county he wants to live and I will find the number for aging and disabilities. Thank you.

 

[BusynMember]

Copa, there is housing for SSI recipients all over I think. I am not sure here. My son is in a very safe area near me. But this is a small city so it may be different.

Since your son is aware of these third options, then he knows he doesnt have to live on the streets or in your house. I personally would rather live in my own place even if the area was not so great than live on the streets. He does have choices! Stop beating yourself up as being the reason he is homeless! He does not have to be even if he refuses to follow the rules of your house. Remember that. It is NOT on you, it is on him. He snubs his nose at certain choices but he wont take steps to follow your reasonable rules. That is his choice.

Your M. Has a heart of gold. Always remember to count your blessings. M. is quite a blessing and a rock for you.

Love and light! G-d bless.

 

[Copabanana]

I texted him the address and phone number of Aging and Disabilities Resource Center in the metro where he is. Also, I suggested he go to Jewish Family Services. They will help too. He knows that. He has received help from them before, 11 years ago, he got help to find a job through Jewish Vocational Services in that City. He knows that there are all kinds of services from that County. He has gotten them. He may not want to jump through the hoops, but he knows there is help.

He prefers me, because he can control me, and be dependent on me, while calling the shots. It is exactly this which I cannot any longer bear.

It is like this is some kind of dare-double dare game. Through being destitute and degraded he forces my hand. I have to hold my ground. It would destroy me if I gave in to this. Let alone how it affects him. It rewards him for dependence and making himself a beggar. That is Cedar's word. She was right.

 

[Jabberwockey]

I'm so sorry you're having to go through this yet again Copa. Its bad enough dealing with the life they chose to live. It can be devastating when they refuse to let you have peace and keep trying to pull you back into their drama.

I won't be responsible. I won't be the enforcer. NO. He needs a 6 month program. To even talk about coming home.

And this is how it should be. he will NEVER learn if you keep swooping in to save him and you know it. Well, your head knows it. Your heart is another matter.

He does not want to take any responsibility at all.

Do I block him? I don't want to, but I want this to stop. He is beating me up and I am letting him. Or should I tell him to communicate with M, who he has not contacted in 10 weeks?

Unfortunately, this is the mentality that keeps me employed. It was the same with our son. Nothing was EVER his fault. He HAD to quit because the boss was an . He HAD to spend/steal that money because someone else needed help or was pressuring him for what he owed.

Whether you block him or not, I wouldn't have him communicate with M if he is more apt to agree to something that you don't want.

He prefers me, because he can control me, and be dependent on me, while calling the shots. It is exactly this which I cannot any longer bear.

Its also EXACTLY why you shouldn't let it be you. Or M for that matter because that essentially makes it you anyway.

His latest text says he does not blame me, just his birth mom.

Again, not HIS fault. If they have no one to blame then they have to start considering where THEY went wrong and they just aren't ready to do that yet.

 

[Copabanana]

I wouldn't have him communicate with M if he is more apt to agree to something that you don't want.

Thank you Jabber. You are right. M is ALWAYS the weak link. I very much appreciate your counsel and support. I will read this over and over again. This is my place to stand.