I really think she likes jail!!!

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by bran155, Jan 3, 2009.

  1. bran155

    bran155 Guest

    Hello everyone. I hope all is well in the beginnings of 2009 for all.

    I have spoken to my daughter twice since she has been in jail. The first time was nothing but screaming and once again no accountability on her part of course. It's still my fault. I, of course expected that. The second conversation was much better. She did accept responsibility for some of the hell she has caused. But her punching me in the face is still my fault!!! Shocker!!! She sounded okay, not afraid and seems to be adjusting fine. She asked me to visit her, I told her I was not ready. She wants me to come to court with the bail money, $5,000, yeah okay, I'm on my way. She told me to just put it on the debit card. She is so naive, she still doesn't realize that you must have money in your account to do so. She doesn't know what a bench warrant is, she doesn't know what it means to be a "flight risk" and she doesn't even know what the word incarceration means!!! She has no business living in this "thug" world she is living in. She is so tough on the outside, yet she has this sad innocence about her. Ironic!!!

    My sister and I have this friend whom we grew up with. She turned out to be a drug addict and was diagnosis bipolar. She has been in jail and through the Mental Health System. She has very similar behaviors to my daughter and can really relate to my daughter's experiences. She is now recovering and has been sober for 3 years. She asked me if it would be alright if she went to see my daughter in jail. She feels like she can talk to her on a different level than we can. I thought maybe that would be a good idea. So she went to see her this morning. The visit went really well. My daughter was very receptive to "J" and they talked for the entire hour long visit. I think that was even beneficial to "J", as it gave her a sense of purpose. She feels like she can help my daughter, at the very least she can be a friend to her. "J" said that my daughter looks good, she was neatly groomed and had died her hair burgandy. She said that her mood was upbeat and she was very grateful to "J" for coming. She kept on thanking her and holding her hands. "J" also left $20 on commessary (Sp?) for her to buy toiletries. My daughter was very happy about that and seemed to be genuinly thankful. Overall the visit was really good. She told "J" to tell me and my sister that she loves us. She told "J" that when she gets out she is going to live with her new boyfriend and then when she turns 18 they are going to move down south. This boyfriend is 24, has his own apartment thanks to the state of NY, he is on welfare. He apparently was a foster child and has no family. My daughter met him while "on the run", as she puts it. She says he is a really nice guy. He is a goody two shoes, her words. She says we would love him. In any event, I don't blame any other infulence for my daughter's behaviors, she is the only one responsible for her choices. He might be a good guy, he might not. Either way, she is the only one who can ever change the direction of her life. The jail put her on Geodon, 50mgs am and 50mgs pm. Not enough medications, but it's a start. "J" said that she spoke to one of the COs and he told her that when my daughter arrived she was completely freaking out, they had to put her in something like a straight jacket to calm her and keep her from hurting herself. He also told her that she is very hyper. I could just imagine, she is going to drive the staff crazy!!! Better them, then me!!!!

    It just blows my mind that my daughter is able to adjust to jail, that she is not afraid. That in itself is scary. I would be petrified if I had to go to jail. Just the thought of it makes my palms sweaty!!!

    Thank you to all who have been following my posts. I have read all of the responses, you guys are so great. You really have helped me get through this.

    Thanks again.

    Shawna :)
  2. meowbunny

    meowbunny New Member

    Shawna, I've volunteered at a women's prison. Even the most scared and naive do seem to adjust to the "life." If they're lucky, they someone who is there to help them and guide them through all of it with no outside motives. It's something for them to do and lets them nurture someone since they are away from their loved ones. So, that she is adjusting is not surprising. It may also be that the medications are helping her at least get a grip on her reality and an acceptance that she can't change things for now.

    For now, it sounds like she is safe and in a good place in her mind. Of course, that will change. Probably on an hourly basis. I'm glad she could talk to someone who has truly been there done that. Between J and maybe some of the women on the inside, she may actually get a clue.

    Try to find out if the boyfriend is actually visiting her in jail. The odds are that he is not offering to take her. It is her fantasy and a way to escape the horrors of her life. Don't be surprised if the ultimate outcome is that the courts tell you to take her home since she is still a minor. She may run when she turns 18 but she's not there yet.

    by the way -- I do understand why she blames you for her hitting you in the face. Remember, you did, too, to an extent. The main reason, though, I think is because she does love you and really can't face the fact that she slugged her mother in a fit of anger and fear. That is a hard thing to live with, much like the mother who totally lost it and spanked her child for the first time. It is just hard to accept that you did that to someone you love.

    For now, hugs. I'm glad you two are talking. You might want to consider putting a little on her commisary account, too. I think that in the long run it will make you feel a little better about the whole situation.
  3. SRL

    SRL Active Member

    There's a young woman in my neighborhood who actually did better in jail than she's fared on the outside world. Prison was scheduled, safe, kept her away from the friends she always fell back into trouble with, free of family homefront conflict, and provided opportunities like counseling and coursework at no cost. Of course she missed her freedoms--I always thought she would have been cut out for life in the military.
  4. Jena

    Jena New Member


    I"m glad to hear they have started her on medications now. I'm also happy to hear that someone reached out to her that has been there and could help on some level. Like you said beneficial for both parties.

    This guy, well who knows if he really exists. Who knows stranger things have happened, maybe he is an ok person. Maybe he doesnt' exist.

    I'm glad she is safe and adjusting i hope the medications begin to do something for her maybe it'll bring her into reality mode there not being able to use, and have drugs administered also. Out of curiosity this may seem silly do they do any type of theraputic type of counseling for them/her?? Hopefully reality will hit hard now and she'll wake up.

    I know you love her so and want her to wake up to the realities of her decisions. You have done a great job keeping it together for your other child. How is he doing, does he speak of her much at all?? I bet home is a bit more peaceful now knowing where she is at least.

  5. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    Shawna, that is so neat that the BiPolar (BP) friend visited your daughter in jail. That is so encouraging! What a great idea. What a great gift.

    It's also encouraging that the jail is providing Geodon and realizes that your daughter needs continuing medications.

    I would wonder if there is any way the boyfriend could come up with-the bail $?
    And if not, is your daughter upset with-him? No way for you to find out, I suppose.

    She's still stuck in the habit of depending upon you and blaming you for everything. Then she will depend on and blame her boyfriend. Finally, she will learn to depend on herself.
    It will be a journey.

    But so far, she's had a remarkable start. I mean, this could have turned out very badly.

    She's got structure and routine and 3 square meals. That is way more important than movie star posters and tattoos and cool clothes. Maybe on some deep level she understands that. At least, she is evening out, temporarily.

    She will eventually miss everything, of course, and resent it, but right now, she's probably just happy not to be raging and out of control and terrified that she's going to be attacked. She is settling in.
    That doesn't mean she's jumping for joy.
    Just that she's settling in.

    Just out of curiousity, what can she spend the $20 on? Cigarettes, candy, socks?
  6. LittleDudesMom

    LittleDudesMom Well-Known Member Staff Member

    I think Terry really summed up my thoughts and feelings very well. Just because she appears to be adjusting and putting on her "game face" doesn't mean she is happy about where she has to be.

    Stay strong.

  7. Rotsne

    Rotsne Banned

    Well, the jail is structured, none is pushing her through therapy or counseling so she cannot be upset and the child like naivety protects her.

    Of course she is adjusting.

    It must have been a shock for her to punch you also, so perhaps she is not ready to accept what she has done yet.

    I dont know what the sentence is for the credit card theft and running away, but I guess that she will be on the street once she turn 18 on probation as the times are.

    Is there structured transition homes available? It seems that she function better when someone tells her what to do and there are not so many choices as out in the real world.
  8. totoro

    totoro Mom? What's a GFG?

    How great of your friend to visit her. This may really have a huge impact on her. As well a possible link once she is out?
    I hope the doctor's in the jail keep monitoring her medications and make adjustments when needed. At least she is on any medication! :)
    You sound like you are doing good.
    I agree, at least she is safe for now.
  9. DDD

    DDD Well-Known Member

    That sounds like a prime "good news/bad news" recountin. :tongue:

    I have a brother in law who is retired FBI and I have a easy child son who is a "honcho" with the State law enforcement community. When easy child/difficult child first began to smoke pot and the "threat" of "incarceration" was shared...I almost croaked. on the other hand my easy child son told me "Mom, you need to understand, when law enforcement threatens adults with jail they often get scared straight.Juveniles and young people, however, know they will be 'hanging out' with other people their age and that most of those young people are like them...not dangerous at all. Young people do not FEAR being locked up like middle aged and older adults do."

    Very, very, very sadly I found out that what he said is true. Whether you are dysfunctional or not, you are with peers and you don't have to fear for your life as the REALLY dangerous inmates are isolated from you. It is NOT a vacation but it is not the way we parents picture it either. Some fairly dysfunctional people find more acceptance in jail than they do in the regular judgemental society.

    It's bizarre. I am really sorry that you are learning about "the other side". DDD
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2009
  10. Wiped Out

    Wiped Out Well-Known Member Staff Member

    How very nice of J to help. I hope she can continue to do so. Many hugs to you.
  11. Big Bad Kitty

    Big Bad Kitty lolcat

    How awesome of J to help!

    It's all in all not a bad thing if she is adjusting to her current situation. Hopefully she will be there long enough to see that there is a life out there better than the one she was leading.

    Stay strong. You are doing great!
  12. KTMom91

    KTMom91 Well-Known Member

    That was really nice of your friend to visit. Sounds like she's adjusting; maybe this will be her turning point.

    Sending hugs and lots of strength.
  13. trinityroyal

    trinityroyal Well-Known Member

    I'm so glad that your friend J was able to visit your difficult child in jail. She might prove to be a great mentor for your daughter, and having been there and come out the other side, she can understand some things that we can only guess at.

    I think DDD's comments about jail and juveniles are very well taken.

    When my difficult child was put in jail a couple of years ago, I imagined him terrified, being bullied, having a meltdown, getting beaten up...all sorts of horrors. When we went to the bail hearing the next day, difficult child was all excited that he'd gotten to see the inside of a Paddy Wagon and that they gave him a hygeine kit.

    It seems that the structure, very clear and unambiguous rules, and strict routine 24/7 worked well for difficult child. Perhaps that's what is allowing your difficult child to adjust so well.

    You know she is safe. I am glad to hear that they have her on medications, and I hope the docs monitor her properly.

    It's good to hear the strength in your words.
  14. Star*

    Star* call 911........call 911


    I've been following your story, but haven't commented. Mostly because things go through my mind and come out on my fingertips. I've been where you are and I know some of the same feelings.

    I know when Dude was going to be arrested, he attempted to swallow a bottle of pills to get out of it. He'd already run away a couple times and didn't get the attention the second and third time that he did the first. It burst his bubble when he looked out the window and saw NO ONE looking for him. For me it was a very 'grow up Mom' moment. I think at that point I felt more guilty for feeling sorry for myself and MY situation than I did my sons. In this instance I didn't cause any of the behaviors that followed and were so (lacking a word here because I don't think I could be embarassed any longer) whatever - to the outside world. I actually for teh first time started to think about what a selfish little boy my son had become. HOW DARE HE.

    So when he told us he swallowed pills? I said fine - the police are on their way - get them to call an ambulance. I'll never forget the look on the drivers face when he said "Are one of you riding with?" and we both simultaneously said "Nope." and walked off. - Apparently we had to be at the ER to sign for treatment. So we reluctanly said "We will follow in a moment." I'll never forget the looks I got that night from the cops, from the ER - I was just so at my wits end. I was cold, numb and just so glad that he would be going to a psychiatric hospital and I would be getting a break.

    When he went to jail from the psychiatric hospital - we had no idea where he was. He went to county for a day and night then to Department of Juvenile Justice. No one called, no one told us anything. WHen I found out exactly what crimes they were charging him for and charging him as an adult - I was enraged at the detective that said "I'll help you big time if you help me." I would later find out his statement was "You should never trust a Southern Cop." (quote out of his mouth) and my son was looking at 15 years as an adult.

    I had a stroke.

    When I got out of the hospital...there was still visitations to contend with and I swear all I kept thinking was - OMG I think he likes jail. Sure part of me wanted to think that his "tough guy" voice on the phone was an act and he was going to "break" and "learn his lesson" and that the "prisoner to prisioner talks from older inmates" would change his attiude or make him SEE the light with their stories of how he didn't want to be there or how they once were where he was etc ad nauseum. I ad nauseum because it has been my experience as a parent to set my hopes high on those who go, talk, speak, help, are one with my son, have been there done that because each time someone like your sisters friend went? It boiled down to "some guy" blah blah blah his life story, he used to be here.....and that's NOT ME. But yet at the time - it was "Oh man, thanks, hug.....shake hand, take the money for commisary - and then the minute the guy left feeling like verbalizing his mistakes HELPED my son? My son only was "in the moment". It was someone to break the mononotony, give him time, talk to. And it was ME that got hurt over and over again thinking MAYBE THIS place, this person, this space in time IS THE """""""""THING""""""" that he....needs to change. Each time it's been a bitter aftertaste and I ran around telling everyone that so and so talked to my son and I "think" he listened. Sadly it's me that gets hurt. THe person who walked that life -is busy healing and thinks what they said actually changed a life. SOmetimes I guess it may, but most times it was just more hurt for me when it became obvious my son used another person to fill his "down" time.

    What I have learned is that the ONLY thing that changes are the stories. The lies are more rehearsed or he has told them so many times we believe he actually believes what comes out of his mouth, the mannerism of his theft (used to be borrowing without permission) gets more ingenious despite me thinking I've seen EVERYTHING, and the sincerety is so well played my kid could out act any Hollywood actor. Seriously. I wonder sometimes when he's done explaining if I should get up and walk away for good or hand him a golden statue and shout BRAVO! (here's your Oscar)

    I'd like to think that jail has changed my son. I'd like to think that staring at 30 years this upcoming year and already a felon at 16 changed him. I'd like to think that numerous Residential Treatment Center (RTC)'s, grouphomes, foster care, psychiatrists, hospitals, 65 medications, my stroke, my ill health, watching me cry, watching me beg, watching my let all my dreams die - just ONE of those would be enough to make me stop, quit, turn my back......and for any normal person? Maybe it would. I keep hoping. And now I lump hope in a category of not-normal. That's how much my sons behaviors have changed my life. Not where I wanted to be, not where I would wish anyone else to be. Not that my words are comforting or that you'll find anything helpful in them today. Just sometimes it almost makes your life seem normal or give it hope to know that there are other Moms out here thinking, wishing, hoping, doing the same things you are.

    Each day I detach a little more. Each day I detach more I heal in one way and die in another. Inside? I stomp my feet and have a full-on hissy fit with tears, tantrum style yelling and just scream at God somedays and instead of having to believe that I'm blessed or have direct communication with the almighty that he made me tough enough to DEAL with this - I feel like I was thrown to the wolves and must have been a real SOB in another life time to live through a childs behaviors like I have. I think no one will understand....and yet - sadly they do.

    Don't waste the time you are given. I find myself thinking that more and more every day. I guess despite all the words and pearls of wisdom that myself and everyone else I could throw under the bus with me for Dudes sake - it's the thought that speaks the loudest in my head. And the one that I say to him these days most often. In part - because when I say it to him? I'm also hearing it come out of MY mouth as my own advice to myself.

    Detachment 101 is the best worst class I've ever had to graduate from. So keep your head up, realize that you can't possibly be made of stone, and be a pushover, find your middle ground and do the best you can to survive this day to day.

    You're a good Mom. Thought maybe someone should tell you that today and mean it.

  15. bran155

    bran155 Guest

    WOW - Star:

    Thank you for that. I am so sorry you had to go through that, but I am so glad that you came out on the other side and seem to be okay. I guess that's what we can expect - to be okay. Happiness seems so far away, for other people. You have described so much of ME in your words. It's so funny, how we walk through life and feel like the weight of the world is on our shoulders and no one could possibly understand how much agony we are in and yet here we are, on this board, where everyone is understanding of our horror on one level or another!!! I, too have had my share of hissy fits, yelling at God, blaming him for my hell. I guess it's sort of the way my daughter always blames me for everything. I blame him. We always want to blame someone or something. I often feel like I must have done something horrible in another life to deserve this. But truthfully my daughter is the one who is living in hell, I am just a bystander suffering because I love her.

    I swear it's as though you took your words right out of my head. I always have this little bit of hope that this time she will get it, this medication will work, this therapist will connect, my tears will sting her enough to change, this jail stint will be the one to really open her eyes, this person will be able to reach her and each time I lose a tiny bit of hope when I realize that none of that made a darn bit of difference in her life whatsoever!!! The only thing that she is learning out of these so called "learning experiences" is to adjust accordingly. So now, not that I have given up, but I have decided to just accept her and her choices for what they are - HER CHOICES. The more I try to fight it the harder it is to deal with. If I just accept the fact that she is choosing to live this way and I have nothing to do with those choices then it is much easier for me to breath. I pray that I will be able to always hang on to some hope, hope that she will one day turn her life around. If I truly believe that I have left no stone unturned then what else is there for me to do, but hope and pray??

    Star, thank you so much for your words of wisdom. Thank you for sharing your own horror with me, it means a lot to me. I hope the new year brings you to, yet another level of peace. You deserve it. We all do.

    God bless.

    Shawna :)

    Thank you to all who have responded. I look forward to your words. They always make me feel better and add a bit of strength to my spine. I truly don't think I could get through this without all of you. This is the first place I go when I wake up in the morning and the last place before I attempt to go to sleep at night. I truly consider all of you "friends", friends that actually understand me. No one else understands the way you all do.

    Terry, the money can be spent on toiletries, hair products, socks and snacks. She can even get a perm for her hair!!!!

    Jennifer, my son is doing great. My home is much more peaceful now. I actually enjoy waking up in the morning. My son and nephew make little comments here and there about my daughter, nothing nice though. The other day my son asked me if my daughter was ever going to come home. I asked him if he wanted her to and he said "no mommy, she punched you in the face, that is very bad". It is a sad reality. I can't expect my 7 yo to have any empathy for his sister who he has seen abuse all of the people he loves. I can only hope that somewhere down the line they will be able to repair their relationship. Only time will tell.

    Thanks again my friends. :)
  16. amazeofgrace

    amazeofgrace New Member

    oh hune, I read that and thought she's my son's other 1/2. He thrived in the institutional settings! Once thing I was advised to do was NOT to call, NOT to send stuff and NOT to visit. He really wasn't there long enough for me to impliment this fully, but I will next time and sadly there's a good chance of a next time.