I refused to sign

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by klmno, Sep 23, 2010.

  1. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    the parole plan for difficult child. After going thru the process again of having to stay on our local sd's transfer of records to Department of Juvenile Justice, having to stay on their rears and listen to their attitudes for four months for them still not to have it correct, updated, and sent to Department of Juvenile Justice after they told me they had but Department of Juvenile Justice sd had it all figured out and correct within 3 weeks; after talking with the CM at Department of Juvenile Justice and hearing again that people in our CSU (Juvenile courts people like attnys and PO) are not telling me correct information, having the PO changed to one who comes across as a royal PITA similar to old probation officer; after bumping into the PO who just got replaced on the way into the building and talking with him, then talking to this new one at our appointment- I drew the line. I didn't say I would never sign, only that I am not in a position to commit to it today and will not sign today.

    He tried intimidating, threatening, turning difficult child over to dss/my bro, etc. Nope- not working this time. He said there's nothing werong with the parole plan- which by the way is exactly the same as the last one with one additional meeting per month with PO thrown in- to which I responded, "well, maybe there's not however it obviously didn't work so why would I turn around and commit to it again?" He said the only reason it didn't work was because of difficult child's choices- difficult child chose to break parole requirements, do drugs, etc (notice how he conveniently always left out what difficult child had done to me any time this came up). So I said, yes, difficult child did and bboth times he has been committed to Department of Juvenile Justice it has been due to having a knife in his hand and committing an offense against me while he had it so given the choices difficult child has made, if he was released to day he would not be welcome in my home today. PO says well, he's not being released today and we don't know what all might change between now and the time he gets released. Correct, I said, and since I don't even know how long he'll be in there this time except that it will probably be after his 17th b-day, I can't tell you if he'll be welcome in my home then or not.

    So, he tells me that my only other option is to file for relief of custody. (He might be correct but given my hx with all those over there, I wouldn't take a single word any of them say as truth and correct witthout getting it verified. For one, thing, the "custody" issue for the present tense doesn't make sense given that difficult child is in Department of Juvenile Justice and that is not the same as when a kid is in detention- custody actually has transferred to Department of Juvenile Justice so I don't currently have custody of difficult child anyway.) When the threat of dss/my bro didn't work this time- I told him I'd definitely be weighing filing for relief- he then said I might have to go to court and explain this to a judge. I said fine. He said the judge might order me to take difficult child back anyway. I said, I understand, he might. But I'm not signing that parole plan until I know what length of stay difficult child gets and weighing all the options, including legal aspects. This will include considering emancipation of difficult child next year. PO said he wouldn't wualify because difficult child would have to be able to support himself and have his own home. I said, well, Department of Juvenile Justice prepares teens for that all the time.

    This PO is royally ticked. He kept going back to me being the responsible party for difficult child. in my humble opinion, it's their very approach toward me the past four years that has left difficult child with no respect for me because difficult child knows that I have jumped thru hoops to prevent him going to dss/my bro. This has continued to get worse and the past 6 mos proved to me that it has only made difficult child worse instead of helping to rehabilitate him. If I have to explain to a judge why I am not comfortable signing that parole plan right now, I will be happy to do so.

    Mind youi, the most recent PO that I bumped into going into the building told me if I refused to sign the parole plan todday, abolutely nothing happens. I have never known who over there is telling me the truth and who isn't from one day to the next. All I know is that I should have listened to the Special Education attny I hired three years ago- get out of this jurisdiction- they drive families out when their kids have issues- the neighboring jurisdictions are more compliant with the laws and much more willing to work with families- this jurisdiction only wants the creme of the crop living in it so they can keep their reputation and they darn sure don't want to spend their taxpayers dollars helping troubled families because more would just move there if they did. I am 100% convinced that he hit the nail on the head.

    That Special Education attny lives in the same jurisdiction as LDM and said he refused to move his family/kid to this one because of stuff like this- and he specifically said it was the sd, juvenile courts, and MH dept. I think now that just the difference in the way these people talk to difficult child and me might have had more of an impact on both of us than I was aware of. People can only take being talked down to and being looked down upon for so long before you give up. They aren't that way in Department of Juvenile Justice. Good or bad, my gut tells me this has a lot to do with difficult child being back in there riight now (ie, difficult child not trying very hard- or at all- to stay out). I will be very glad to get out of here. Honestly, I'm to a point where I feel guilty contributing to this revolving door anymore. I can't control difficult child's choices, CSU's lack of effort to do anything helpful, but I can stop allowing myself to be in the middle of it thereby allowing it continue the other parties not changing anything as long as it does.
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2010
  2. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    Sorry for all the typos- this has me a bit shaken but I didn't let it show while going thru it. I actually feel good to have finally stood up to these people.
  3. PatriotsGirl

    PatriotsGirl Guest

    Good for you!!!
  4. AnnieO

    AnnieO Shooting from the Hip

    YOU GO GIRL!!!

    I don't blame you. Why try the same old thing that didn't work?!

    Hugs for the shakiness, too.
  5. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    That's the parents' perspective.

    The childless people in CSU who are in their early 30's and believe in MST/behavior contracts and who determined for themselves that no matter what MH profs say, difficult child doesn't have any MH issues "because he sounds coherent when he talks", believe that if they stay consistent with the rewards & consequences, difficult child will someday grow tired of going to Department of Juvenile Justice.

    (Yes, the same difficult child who basicly tried to get himself back into Department of Juvenile Justice.)
  6. slsh

    slsh member since 1999

    klmno - are there any victim services down there? You might try contacting them, since you were the victim of his crimes. That might bring a little perspective to the new PO. Having the exact same parole plan, which worked so brilliantly last time, while at the same time trying to force the victim of difficult child's most serious crime (in my humble opinion anyway) to allow him to live in her (your) home again is just a tad bit ... short-sighted, at best.
  7. KTMom91

    KTMom91 Well-Known Member

    Good for you...sending hugs.
  8. Cazzy

    Cazzy Guest

    Good job standing your ground!
  9. AnnieO

    AnnieO Shooting from the Hip

    LOL - okay, that was supposed to be rhetorical. But you know? I felt exactly the same after Onyxx attacked me and they released her back to husband. Scuse me? That's like telling a batterer, "go home, you can hit your spouse again if you want to".

    They just don't GET it, do they?!
  10. JJJ

    JJJ Active Member

    Good job! difficult child still has quite a bit of time left on his sentence. You have plenty of time to wait them out.

    He will not be able to be emancipated - he needs to show exceptional maturity and have an established history of 100% financial self-support - without any govt aid.

    They need to have a better plan then to do the same thing that has already been proven not to work.
  11. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    Well remember- this would be the second time they plan to return him home after robbing me by use of knife. The first time it was held up to me; this time it wwas used to cut my clothes while I was sleeping. They have all been concerned about whether or not I have a MH problem (as in an very major one that has contributed to this) but I was under the impression that doing the same thing over and over but expecting a different result was the definition of insanity. I think it is the CSU people and difficult child that are guilty of that- I can assure you that I'm convinced if nothing changed, I would have a knife on me a third time.

    As far as emancipation- I'm aware those are the requirements however I'm not so sure how they pan out for a teen in Department of Juvenile Justice. Mainly because tthere are kids who are incarcerated until they are 18yo so what do they do with them? Train them and give them transitional services. They don't keep them incarcerated or require a family member to support them. Technically, only the people on a work program while incarcerated can support themselves.

    All I know is that they do HAVE to know where difficult child will go prior to his release. Now exactly how far in advance they have to know this, I'm not sure. The people in our CSU (local court) have always told me that it has to be within a month of him being transferred to Department of Juvenile Justice- but I don't think that's true. Department of Juvenile Justice (state) doesn't require that because last year I rec'd a copy of a standard letter that was sent to PO from Department of Juvenile Justice and it said for him to "submit parole plan signed by parent and PO if not already provided". So that proved that Department of Juvenile Justice didn't need it one month after difficult child's transfer.

    They can't take away parental rights (different than custody) unless/until dss has custody of difficult child for one year then a judge determines it in a court hearing after that. Only a judge can turn difficult child over to dss- the PO cannot. I think a judge has to even approve it if a parent tries to. Anyway, I'm not going to try to- it dawned on me this afternoon that this PO cannot tell me I have to file for relief of custody. They can, however, request a hearing to have difficult child turned over to dss. But I'm not sure they can do that right now with difficult child just being turned over to Department of Juvenile Justice. Let's hope not. However if they do, I believe that I can request an attny. I know that if it stays this way, they would do this prior to difficult child's release. CSU doesn't want to use the little resources they have left after all the funding cuts and group home closures on difficult child. They have already told me that they definitely will NOT use them when they know that they can turn a difficult child over to dss and another family member will take them- this of course, is why this has always been used as a threat toward me- but it's a real threat. And knowing that they have this "threat" available to hold over my head is exactly why they have been so unwilling to negotiate any requirements with me. But again, it also allowed difficult child to walk over me because difficult child knew I would become a doormat before letting them send him to my bro, no matter what he did. I just will never condone sending a kid to a high-risk situation as appropriate punishment. But- life is a lot different when you're over 17 than it is when you are a tween. LOL! And if difficult child isn't turned over to dss until after he's 17yo- well then- I can never lose parental rights- it just doesn't give them the year they would have to have before he turns 18yo.

    Nothing can be resolvved though until next week when we find out difficult child's length of stay- sentence in Department of Juvenile Justice. Then later the issue will be not having a permanent home. I'm not going to let them threaten me over it or about it. Whether or not they turn difficult child over to dss because I don't have a permanent, stable home for a few months early on in his sentence, I don't know. I would tend to think that even if they did, dss would work with me and wait and see if I had a suitable, stable home again by the time difficult child is released. And I can't see why dss would get my bro involved now when they don't need him to take custody yet- plus he's out of state. It would seem more feasible that dss would return him to me if I had a stable home and was willing to take difficult child back and work with the PO at the time of difficult child's release- but again, my reasoning and their's is always different and I really don't know if this jurisdiction can require to have a "plan" signed this early on.

    All I know is that it can't be all that simple and cut and dry or this PO wouldn't have gotten so shaken and ticked off when I calmly made it clear, the third time, that I am not signing that thing today. I told him after I find out difficult child's length of stay next week, I will weigh things and contact him. I will have to contact him within a few weeks anyway to give him a new phone number and tell him where I am. They are real worried that I'm going to disappear on them, I think, but I also know that they can't claim that as long as difficult child are in contact with each other and we both write each other and talk on the phone and I will visit as soon as the processing place allows it- so they can't claim abandonment. Plus, I went to this appointment with the PO. I'm just tired of being ordered to sign things saying I'm in agreement when I'm not, then being told I can be taken to court for not complying with what I signed agreement to. But then they say there is no choice- if there is no choice why is there a paper of agreement?

    Anyway, I'm sure they (both local csu and state Department of Juvenile Justice) are more comfortable if this is in place prior to the staffing meeting where they make the final determination of difficult child's length of stay, what facility he'll go to, and treatment plan in Department of Juvenile Justice, which will happen next week. Too bad- they all, including difficult child, need to stop taking for granted that I'll go along with whatever plan they come up with. difficult child is going to flip though when they tell him in that meeting that I have not agreed at this point that he will be allowed back home.
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2010
  12. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    OMG- Step- you should have heard (well, maybe not LOL!) my reaction last year when I learned that the original plan was to not even send difficult child anywhere but return him home on probation and send ME to court-ordered MH treatment. After he held a knife to my neck and demanded cigs. I said (ok, yelled) the same thing about setting him up to be a spouse abuser someday.
  13. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    Stand firm.
  14. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    Thanks, Terry. So much of this could be resolved easily if they'd just tell me the truth instead of BS'ing me to manipulate me. LOL!
  15. JJJ

    JJJ Active Member

    At 18, they are adults and do not need to be emancipated nor does anyone have parental rights over them anymore. While we all know there isn't a magic transformation on their 18th birthday, the law had to draw the line somewhere. So at 17 years, 364 days, you will have parental rights and he will not be eligibile for emancipation. 24 hours later, he will be a legal adult and you will no longer have any rights or obligations to him.

    Is there any chance that they will hold him until he turns 18?
  16. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    No, not unless he gets another street charge while in Department of Juvenile Justice. That can happen but normally doesn't because street charges are only given if a kid does something like attacks a staff member or something. Minor things like fighting won't get them a street charge but can add on a little more time. As an example, difficult child might get a length of stay (LOS) of 18-24 months. He would be eligible to get out maybe 1 month early if he completed the required treatment plan, which this time will be substance abuse treatment, and gets no Department of Juvenile Justice charges (minor things, like a fight with another kid). If he completes his program but has a minor charge or two, he'd get out at 18 months. If he refuses to comply with any of it but gets no street charge, he'd get out in 24 months. If that happened plus he gets a street charge, they might add on a couple of more months, depending on what the street charge is.

    He is 15 1/2 yo now and the clock for counting his time in Department of Juvenile Justice started the day he was committed in court, which was in August. He might get a LOS of 15-21 mos again but I'm pretty sure he's loooking at one or the other. If by chance he did get 24 to 36, then there would be a bigger chance of him going to a half-way house instead of being turned over to dss. If he gets turned over to dss and I don't have a permanent, stable home upon his release, dss has no choice but to send difficult child to my bro as a foster care placement, but I would still have parental rights for one year. Another thing I'm not sure about is which jurisdiction plans his parole requirements when I move out of this one.
  17. Farmwife

    Farmwife Member

    It just makes me so angry when people in authority either;

    a. Assume you must agree with them
    b. Only give you bits of information or misinformation
    c. Try to intimidate people into compliance

    That garbage makes me instantly get ready for a battle.

    I don't know what it is about authority that turns some people into doody faces. It's like any time someone gets put in charge of something and has a "whistle hanging from their neck" they just get high on their own fumes. Then they start "blowing their whistle" just because they can and it makes them feel special or something. I'm not that easily impressed nor intimidated.

    Needless to say authority figures find me to be a royal pain! : )