I spent the morning in tears...

Discussion in 'Parent Emeritus' started by TheWalrus, Jan 24, 2016.

  1. TheWalrus

    TheWalrus I Am The Walrus

    Spoke to Difficult Child yesterday and everything seemed fine - upbeat almost. She wanted me to know she was no longer staying where she was and would be "visiting" some friends for awhile. Even invited me to come see her. I immediately had a stone in the pit of my stomach, knowing there was "more to the story." But I have learned not to "dig" and not to ask for problems. We had a good conversation which ended well.

    Today, the other shoe dropped. I find out that she is not just "visiting" but is moving in with these people and under the premise that I "kicked her out of my house." She has not lived in my house in almost two years!!!!

    I have no doubt that she caused problems where she was staying and THEY kicked her out, but she tells people that I did? And these people she is staying with are very, very nice, but are in no way capable of dealing with all of her issues. I would bet anything they aren't even aware of ALL of her issues.

    And my heart is just broken that she is so willing to smear me in order to gain sympathy and a new place to go. She has severe physical and mental disabilities, as well as drug addictions, and truly needs to be in residential treatment (she refuses - which is why she was not allowed to come here; until you deal with and face your problems, you cannot come here). But I have sacrificed and put myself in financial debt trying to help her, advocated for her, found resources for her (that she refuses to take advantage of), and no gratitude, no appreciation.

    How hurt I am that she could talk to me in such an normal, non-confrontational tone, even seeming upbeat about her "visit," all the while knowing she had told this terrible lie about me to them, making me seem this uncaring, unloving mother who threw her disabled child out on the streets. I am a wreck. How can she be so heartless? So cruel?
  2. A dad

    A dad Active Member

    Well if this helps its seems she still wants to have a relationship with you if she is nice at least when she talks to you. About bad mouthing you to strangers well does it really matter what they think of you?
    She lied to get what she wants and puts you in a bad light but it its not gonna affect you in any way its all on her. I know this seems tough but what matters is her interaction with you and how she acts towards you that shows her real feelings those are signs of disrespect towards her friends.
    My family badmouths each other all the time behind out backs its a unspoken truth but we are close and we can depend on each other just 2 days ago I went and build a huge deposit for my mothers things that she does not need or use with my brothers and we badmouth each other excessively we know we do and yet we are still close.
  3. Ironbutterfly

    Ironbutterfly If focused on a single leaf you won't see the tree

    I am so sorry. Kids like ours with mental and drug addictions, lose first integrity, then empathy for others. It's all about them- they blame others vs. themselves. If it were me, I would call these nice people and tell them what the truth is- you had conditions set for her in order for her to live in your home. Since she refused those conditions, she is not allowed to live in your home. Don't allow her to smear your name.

    Few months ago when son was with heroin addict girlfriend and he obviously on something, told a friend that he was going to call Social Security and tell them I was misusing his money as a Payee. He was saying this because I wouldn't give him more money then I had already given him. Well, this friend called me and told me this. So I called up my son and said, How dare you make that accusation. He denied saying it. So I said if you dare to make that I would call SS and remove myself as payee and tell them the money I have been giving you for food and clothes has been going for drugs and you will be cut off and banned for life with SS.

    I stopped him dead in his tracks with his drug induced threats. In my experience with son, I can't allow him to smear me in any way without holding him accountable for his false threats. Fast forward, he moved down south, is not with with crazy girlfriend and he is doing well.
  4. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Borderline personality disorder is actually one day going to be called emotional dysregulation disorder. These people do not have stability of emotions and will take you for a ride, like a roller coaster. Unless/until they seriously understand their disorder and WANT help (because it is hard work) it is unrealistic for anyone to expect such a person to be able to have a stable relationship with ANYONE. They can be all smiles one minute and screaming the next and there is no way to predict what sets them off. It is really not their faults, but they CAN go to intensive therapy and learn about their disorder and how to control their emotions. DBT is great therapy for Borderline (BPD), however the person has to admit she has a problem and MUST be willing to work hard. It is not within your power to in any way change this.

    Until then, it is probably best not to expect your well meaning advances toward a better relationship to reap the results you would like. More likely, it is best to have an "anything goes" attitude. She may have good days or even weeks, but will not have stability until she accepts serious help. Self-harm (like cutting), suicide attempts and addiction are also often a part of borderline personality disorder.

    Sometimes bpders mellow with age. Not always.

    Hugs and more hugs for your hurting heart.
  5. TheWalrus

    TheWalrus I Am The Walrus

    I have learned that "confronting" her leads to one of two places: (1) she will flatly lie and deny or (2) she will blow up and I will get the "laundry list" of how everything in her life is my fault. She will then hoard every word I say to later use against me in some way.

    These people want to talk to me but that puts me in such an awkward, awkward position. I have no desire to divulge her problems to the world (that is why I come here anonymously). We live in a small town and I want her to have an opportunity to someday regain her life and her reputation. I know SHE may forever throw that away with her actions, but I don't want to be the one to take that from her by discussing all she has done, her mental conditions, her choices that led her where she is. If she throws away opportunities, that is one thing. I cannot and will not be the one to take those away from her.

    To be honest it would be a horrid mistake for these people to let her in, but I don't know how to let them know that without divulging private things about her that I feel are not my place to discuss or leaving her with nowhere to go. Even though she is more than willing to hurt me, I still cannot do or say anything that I feel could hurt her or hurt her future.

    And because it is such a small town, it does affect me. I have a reputation that I have tried staunchly to protect, regardless of whether she cares about hers. That is how I found out...

    I have no idea what to do, what to say, when these people call and want to talk to me about her and this situation. I need help with how to handle this in a way that maintains my love for her, as well as is honest but protects her privacy. Oh, the crap she drags me into!
  6. TheWalrus

    TheWalrus I Am The Walrus

    SWOT -

    I have read a lot about her disorder and she also has underlying "co-occurring" disorders with it. She is completely unable to maintain relationships with anyone. Eventually, she blows up and has left a trail of failed relationships and friendships longer than one can imagine. Her drug use and injuries have made her behavior so, so, so much worse. And she denies she is a drug addict and we aren't talking just a pot smoker. She likes the hard stuff.

    I try hard to empathize - I know her brain works differently than mine. I know I am not the only one she hurts, lies to, clings to and then destroys. I know I am not the only one that she lies about and have learned to take everything with a grain of salt. I know how hard her disorder is and how hard it is for her to get better, and I cannot make her want it. She doesn't.

    I have detached, been loving but from a distance, supportive but leaving it to her to do the things she needs to do. In other words, disengaging from the chaos and drama that she creates. So it was a punch in the gut to find out she had basically lied to me on the phone, knowing she has stirred this gossip about me to get sympathy for herself, when I have tried to hard to stay out of whatever mess she creates. For whatever reason, she resents me. I feel it. I taste it every time she talks to me. No matter what I do it is not enough and it never will be. I have tried everything to "make it right" whatever in her mind I did "wrong."

    People who know me and know her also know better. They have seen firsthand everything she has put me through. To have strangers not only assume but also discuss me as some kind of heartless parent is hurtful. I know I shouldn't let it bother me, but it does. It bothers me that she can so coldly do that. I have never seen any remorse from her from anything she has ever done to me, nor any gratitude for anything I have ever done from her. I often feel she truly believes, as her mother, she is allowed to treat me like her doormat.
  7. Ironbutterfly

    Ironbutterfly If focused on a single leaf you won't see the tree

    Wow does put you in a difficult place. I do understand your reasoning for protecting her privacy and it being a small town. About only thing you could do is: not answer their phone calls or two answer but say to them, that as Mother and daughter, you two clash and perhaps it would be better for her to stay with someone other than family.
  8. New Leaf

    New Leaf Well-Known Member

    Walrus, I am sorry for your heart ache.
    It is the same for me, every time.
    Though my two have never been diagnosed with anything,
    I am sure somewhere down the line through drug use, there were and are some mental health issues.
    I am the "reason" for everything wrong in their lives.
    No amount of apologies for mistakes made, will get through to them.
    (of course I made mistakes, nobody is perfect)

    Even though I have three other kids that love and care about me.

    They have decided in their minds that I was a terrible mother.
    Something is very, very wrong there.

    My Tornado has three kids of her own, and has put them through awful ordeals. I do not think she even looks at her treatment of her own children. She is constantly shouting, not too much tenderness there. One can only imagine how these kids will view her, when they grow up.

    My two have probably bad mouthed me to just about anyone who will listen. It hurts. What hurts more, is the mistreatment and disrespect when they are around. It is horrible. I do not like it, and truthfully, I do not like them. What a thing to write, or say. I do not like them. They are jerks. JERKS, Walrus.

    You could be brief, and just say that there have been difficult times, and you love her, but she cannot live with you, and hasn't lived with you for a while now.
    BOOM, that's it.
    Well, I guess they will find out soon enough. It is their decision, you can't control what someone else does.
    You have your principles, and that is good. While being hurt by your daughter, you still look out for her future, not retaliatory or vindictive. You stand by your honor, good for you.

    I am different. I am somewhat open about what is going on. I figure it is pretty obvious already. I don't say everything, but I will share some stuff. Sometimes, people share what they are dealing with their own d cs.
    Meth is epidemic over here. It is sad.

    All in all, these four months on this forum have taught me a lot. I know that I cannot have my two d cs living with me, it is not only the enabling, it is also that there is no reciprocation of love or respect.
    That, is unacceptable.
    I am an opportunity. That is all.
    I have had to come to accept that. I can't change the way they feel.

    Today, I do not want to cry any more over them.
    So many tears, so many years of this. It will not change the reality of it.
    Another day? I might be crying. It is all so up and down.
    It is hard Walrus, a hard, hard thing we are dealing with.

    I am sorry Walrus, that you have been hurt by your daughters heartlessness and cruelty.
    I think it was Cedar, who wrote "there is no pain, like the pain an adult child can inflict upon their mother."

    This is so very true. I have been turned inside out with the pain. Excoriated.
    It is excruciating. I have been so raw and exhausted from it.

    I have to pick myself up.
    It does not look like it is going to get any better for awhile.

    I talked with my Hoku this morning and she was telling me she had been feeling depressed because "her sisters will not change and our family has been torn apart by all of this."

    I told her that it is what it is and in the mean time, we are family, we have to be what family we can.
    I am sad that this has affected my well children.
    Their sisters do not care. They will do what they do.

    So, we all have to pick up the pieces and carry on.

    I wish I could just wave a magic wand and fix it for all of us. If only......

    I am truly sorry for your heartache and tears Walrus. I do not blame you one bit for feeling as you do. It is the ultimate betrayal, all of this........

    Take care and vent away, my heart goes out to yours,
    you are strong, and will feel better in time.
    One day at a time......

  9. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    Is there someone in social services you could put them in contact with? Let them know she hasn't been living with you for two years, so you don't know "all the issues"?
  10. TheWalrus

    TheWalrus I Am The Walrus

    She had a horrific accident last year. She had cut us from her life almost completely for almost 2 years. She had no one else so we immediately went to be with her. She almost died. It is a miracle she is alive. I lost months of my life, my job, my friend and family, my finances being there for her. Slowly, this is how I found out she was a drug addict, suicidal, and she was diagnosed with a psychiatric disorder. So I do know "all the issues" and they know I know. Due to confidentiality laws, there is no one they can call who will discuss her with them.
  11. rebelson

    rebelson Active Member

    The more I read from you, the more your dtr & my son sound more & more alike.

    I cld totally see my son saying that. The way I see it? It's to gain their (ppl offering housing) pity. Your dtr is using emotional manipulation for her gain. It's the addict in her, talking. You are the easiest target, you love her unconditionally, right? It's always us. It's love/hate. Up/down.

    My son is super quick to revert to 'trash mom' mode. He will bring up anything & everything he can, to hurt me, when provoked. He even is making up blatant lies about his childhood the last few times. Yes, it hurts. But, I am tired. And, I know it's the addict talking. I feel sorry for him. I pray to St. Anne for him every day that I remember to. For his daily safety & for sobriety for him.

    He also had a bad bad accident last March & also could've died...or been paralyzed. His guardian angels surrounded him, he is fine, healed & unscathed. Thank God. I've seen a bit less risk taking since that accident.

    As I read your part about you not wanting to bash your dtr to those ppl, I agree & think EXACTLY like you. They do enough to ruin their own reputation, alienate others. I do not feel right adding to that. Part of detaching from their tumultuous lives is letting them deal with EVERYTHING. If the ppl let her move in, that is their choice. You are her 'mom', not her 'mommy'. I don't think you should be involved in that situation at all. Let her do what she does. Time will tell if she burns THAT bridge...you don't need to start the fire for her.

    My son has been living in current home since end of November. He's talked often about the older guy he rents room from. A few times I've been tempted to contact that man to see how my son is doing, in his opinion. I think, I know he is aware of some of my son's issues. But I realized very quickly that contacting him was a bad idea. Son is 23, I need let go & to stop seeking info via 'others' for my own sanity. It's not good for son. It's not detaching for me.

    If those ppl who are housing your dtr try to contact you, I'd avoid at all costs. Don't answer phone. If they get you on the spot, I'd just say 'I need to refer you back to my dtr, she's an adult..'

    It is all so hard. And the road is bumpy.....(((hugs))))
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  12. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    It will be easier for you if you just accept that at her age you can't help her and to respect her decisions, even if you disapprove of them. Where she lives is her own decision. Whether she gets help is her own decision. I think you may feel best if you back out. She can do better if she gets help. She just won't. I wouldn't enable her decision not to get help or admit she is abusive to everyone she meets. She probably could hit rock bottom and then go for serious therapy. She may not, but she will not if you put up with her behavior.

    I also would tell anyone who wants to talk to you about her that, "She is of age and you need to talk directly to her. " And stick to it. There is nothing you can do to help a situation somebody else wants to talk to you about regarding a legal adult. You can back out of it completely. It isn't your business anymore.

    Don't go broke trying to help her. There are places she can go, if she really wants to, where she doesn't have to pay a lot and can help herself. You need the money. You matter as much as she does. You seem to care more about her well being than she does. That never works out well. SHE has to want it enough to find help and find ways to fund it. She needs to be the woman that she is. She is no longer that cute little kid you remember.

    Big hugs.
  13. TheWalrus

    TheWalrus I Am The Walrus

    Thank you for all the replies and advice. It is hard, so hard. She is literally like a light switch. I will have conversations with her where she will be talking about someone and how great they are, and for no reason, within minutes, she may be picking them apart. I know that is her addiction and her disorder talking. I know not to judge people by anything she says. I know not to feed into or encourage that behavior. And I know not to give her anything personal that she can later use against me. It is exhausting at times, constantly editing in my head what I say before it comes out of my mouth, weighing it to see if there is anything she can "read" into it or "take it wrong" or "reconstruct a different way in her mind" that will bite me in the butt.

    But this is an out and out lie. I didn't kick her out. She hasn't even been in my house to be kicked out. She did this before when she did live here. She came home and started this huge fight with me, over nothing, and she scared me badly. I had never seen her so angry and violent. I remained calm while she cursed me and accused me and slammed things in my house. She packed her things, left, and then told everyone I kicked her out. I found out recently she was on drugs at the time. The scary, violent, threatening suddenly made sense when it didn't at the time.

    And that is why I WOULDN'T let her come back until she went into treatment. I cannot have her here, doing drugs in my house, abusing me verbally, making demands and threats. So to have her say I kicked her out is a lie. The truth is that I refused to let her in. Not without some serious steps toward recovery.

    I am her favorite target, the one she makes her "default villain." My therapist (sad that her issues have made ME need a therapist) says this is common. And it is because parents are the one bridge that never burns so they can continue to set us on fire and come back again and again. They may shut doors that forever stay closed and locked against them in other relationships, but parents are the one they can always get a foothold back into.

    Was I perfect? No. Did I make mistakes? Of course. But she had a beautiful life full of opportunity. She had so much going for her and so much potential. But the drugs and now the accident have created this person I don't recognize, and to be honest, sometimes fear. I found her journals from when she was using and some of the things she did and did to other people is frightening. It is frightening what she is capable of. She has no clue that I have them.

    I know my little girl is in there somewhere, but she is buried beneath her addictions and illness. I pray she someday resurrects herself, without burying me in the process.
  14. Hopeful97

    Hopeful97 Active Member


    So very sorry you are going through this, my heart goes out to you. :hugs:

    I am by no means telling you what to do. My d c (son #2) is 18 and was no longer allowed to live in our home beginning on his 18th birthday which was Sept 2015. There is much more to the incredibly heartbreaking story/journey. My son was living with a family for a while I talked to the mom basically only told her there were problems and he no longer lives with us and left it at that. He is now with a different family they have not attempted to make contact if they do I will tell them " there were problems and he no longer lives with us" if they ask for more info., I will tell them "I am sorry, all I can say to you is there were problems and my son has not lived with us since September of 2015 if you have more questions please speak to my son" This may sound kind of harsh/uncaring but our Difficult Child s are adults and have taken and taken so much we need to take care of us and let them do what they choose and live how they choose. I will always care as will you. We cannot help them when they clearly do not want help.

    My Difficult Child has mental illnesses knows that treatment helps from his own experience and from growing up with a mother that has a mental illness and is in recovery and has been for a while.

    One thing I have a hard time with and/or understanding is the violence associated with my d c and it is probably as bad as we have known it to be (part of it one of his mental diagnosises and part of it I do not know). I am at a loss. We learned some things this weekend that are very scary that I will be talking about another time.

    Your therapist I believe is right, the parents are one bridge that never burns. But I believe can be fireproof, we can set boundaries and yes they can be flexible but there are some areas within the boundaires that are not flexible; for example, if anything is going to put us or anyone else in any kind of danger it must be avoided and one thing I am learning to ask myself is, is it really my business. If d c asks for opinion/advice is usually (shooting for 100%, realisticly I am a mom so 100% will never happen, it may in some situations that come along with Difficult Child, but not all). I have learned very short answers like: No I cannot do (fill in the blank) no reason needs to be given, I can not help you with that, I do not know what I would do. If there is any hint of blaming, cursing, etc I hang up or if I no longer want to talk it's "I can no longer talk, I love you." and I immediately hang up.

    I hope that you are able to take something useful from all my rambling. Keep posting it helps keep you strong, let's you vent in a safe place and offers much needed support from others going through the same or similar journeys


    :group-hug: HUGE HUGS,
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2016
  15. Hopeful97

    Hopeful97 Active Member

    To clarify about the 4th paragraph on my previous post I meant to say (If Difficult Child asks for opinion/advice I try very hard to stick with very short responses like; I do not what I would do or that's to bad or so sad, or I do not know or have an opinion or I have not thought about that). I am a mom and human it is not full proof and sometimes I say to much.
  16. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    rebelson, I know this is way off topic, but I think your little puppy is so adorable I just had to tell you.

    Nothing comforts me more than cuddling with my dogs. Yes, it even trumps my husband's cuddles sometimes...lol.

    Looks like a little yorkie.

    Sorry to steal the thread. I wll give it back.
  17. TheWalrus

    TheWalrus I Am The Walrus

    And things just keep getting worse...

    Today I get an "angry and accusatory" message from these people about her in their house and how I need to call them. I don't know what she has told them, but apparently I am this horrid, wicked, shameful mother who has turned her child away and they have decided they are going to pick up her cause and let me know my responsibilities.

    I am a nervous wreck. I am so vulnerable and don't know if I can take angry judgments from people who have taken her in and decided that I need to be put in my place so that I will take her back. I haven't called. I am afraid to. But I cannot avoid them forever, as that makes whatever she told them seem to be the truth.

    Why would they involve themselves? They don't know me. They don't know the situation. But they have swallowed whatever she has said hook, line, and sinker and are ready to defend this "poor" girl and "get this straightened out" with me. For all I know, she did this on purpose to try to guilt and embarrass me into letting her back in by having some third party bully me.

    It is possible. She has manipulated this way before, numerous times, to get others to do her dirty work or what she can't accomplish on her own.

    What do I do? What do I say? Please help me. I have a feeling that ignoring it won't work. It is a very small town and I don't think they will just stop. I am sure they think they are "helping" her bc she has painted me the villain, but they just don't know. And I cannot just throw her under the bus and tell them everything.

    This is a new level of chaos and hell she is dragging me into. She just never stops...
  18. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Don't call them. This is between your ADULT daughter and them. It has nothing to do with you. You do not need to engage them or subject yourself to judgments when they don't understand.DO NOT RESPOND AT ALL TO THESE CLUELESS STRANGERS!

    Your daughter can not drag you into anything unless you let her.

    If this were me, I would not get tangled up in her mess, and it IS her mess. You can't control what she says about you or w what a few people who don't know how kind you are and how hard you have tried think about you, but does it really matter what they think?

    The less you know about your daughter, the better it is for you. And you, your other loved ones who are able to show their love and appreciation of you, your friends and other positive people in your life deserve to have a healthy, stress-free you. YOU matter. YOU MATTER TOO! YOU MATTER AS MUCH AS YOUR DAUGHTER DOES!

    Don't get pulled down with your daughter. You do not have to put yourself in the middle of t his and my strong suggestion is to ignore it. Don't answer texts or phone calls regarding this matter, no matter who in this drama is the one calling you. It is up to you whether or not you want to engage with somebody. Nobody can force it on you.

    Hugs and be very, very good to somebody you've been neglecting...yourself!!!! :)
  19. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    Walrus, this happened to me. When I told my son to leave he went to friends of ours (*I thought they were friends) who owned a motel in another city. When I spoke to the husband he answered: "This is between SON and I. You have no part of it."

    I felt heartbroken and betrayed. They let him stay there for 2 years asking little in terms of responsibilities or growth.

    There have been other instances of what I felt to be betrayal. Now, four or five years out I think this: I wish I had not wasted one minute in feeling sad.
    They do what will work in the moment that accomplishes their short term aim. Nothing more, nothing less. Let it go.

    It has happened to most of us. Even family members have ganged up on us using our troubled children to serve their own ends.
    The real cost is for your daughter, whose real interests are not served by a short-term fix, or couch, or whatever she thinks she is gaining.

    You know this. I know this. Unfortunately, she has to learn it. What can you do? If she is an adult, where is your control?
    She does not, probably, even remember.

    One of the hardest emotional consequences for me with my son is my sense of his disloyalty to me, what I called betrayal.

    I need to let it go. To a large extent I have. His character is between himself and G-d, now. I have to let it go.

    All I can do is to put into place good boundaries so that he cannot hurt me in real ways and as importantly, through his dealings with me, he learn that he is accountable for that which he does and does not do.

    Keep posting. We are with you. We get it. There is nothing at all easy in this process. Most of all, we worry for them, and we are powerless to fix it for them.
    The hurts to us are not the main thing. But they hurt.

  20. New Leaf

    New Leaf Well-Known Member

    Clueless, people are just downright clueless.
    This is your monkey, Walrus, but NOT your circus.
    I agree with the others, I would not call them. Reason being, what could you even say?
    You have already written that you do not want to expose your daughters problems.
    You want to keep it confidential.
    The only way you could defend yourself against your girls betrayal,
    would be to vomit everything out into the open.
    Then what?
    She would deny everything,
    say you were the one who was bonkers.

    I think time will tell.
    You can hold your head up high,
    knowing you stuck to your principles.
    If they are so concerned, they can take her in.
    It will only be a matter of time, before the real her comes out.
    Heck, maybe she will have to keep up the charade long enough, she might change?

    Who knows.

    You don't have to prove anything, to anyone.
    You know your truth, your character.
    In the end, the only one we need to prove anything to
    is ourselves and our higher power.

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