I think he believes his own lies?

[dirtmama]

It's really a long story but to cut to the chase...difficult child got caught lying/stealing (like everyday) at school. His math teacher called me to confirm his story. She said difficult child was in tears and very upset about her not believing him. So much so that she thought it best to call me. He was lying. It's like he actually convinces himself these "lies" are true. He does it at home with- me all the time and gets very angry --yelling and screaming and cryiing that I don't believe (he lies 80-90% of the time). could he convince himself it's all true? The rest of us see right through it. What do you all think?

 

[BusynMember]

What sort of lies does he tell?

If he can't tell reality from his lies, then he has serious problems. He may think he's telling the truth, if his thought processes are different from others.

 

[dirtmama]

most of his lies are to cover his behind. like stealing something or hurting his brother or breaking something or...he pretty much lies about everything, even things that don't matter at all. i wonder how i could figure out if his reality is distorted....how can you tell? Often times husband and i say he's living in a different world

 

[Jody]

I have had this same issues with lies. So annoying. My difficult child does it also to get out of trouble and like you stated just about everything. Master manipulator. She wants to have control over things and sometimes I think she does it because if she says it aloud it will somehow make it true to her. The louder they protest that they are telling the truth and they didn't do whatever is just another form of temper tantrum to have their way. We know it's a lie and I have quit entertaining that it's not. She will call me names very loudly and clearly and then say she never did it. I have been told that she is in a rage and maybe she doesn't remember it. I have never understood this so I can't offer any advice except to remember that difficult child's can be very good at manipulating and are great actors/actresses. LOL. Maybe they will become tc stars or something later in life. One day the acting might be a plus, until then help us all. Hang in there.

 

[trinityroyal]

Dirtmama, have you had your difficult child evaluated? It is important to determine whether there is an element of distorted thinking, or whether your difficult child is just lying to get out of trouble, or for some other reason. The interventions you need to put in place may be different, depending on the underlying cause.

My difficult child 1 lies constantly as well, and has done all his life. He's 20 now and I have not seen any significant change in this behaviour, even though many of his other issues have improved with the right sorts of medications and interventions. The overall pattern of difficult child 1's lying seems to be one of impulsivity combined with instant gratification. He will do or say anything he needs to in order to get whatever it is that he wants, that very moment, with no regard to the consequences. There are times when difficult child 1 is caught red-handed, and still lies about it For example, I ask "difficult child 1, why are you messing with the barbecue controls?" "I'm not", he answers, with his hand still on the knob.

I have learned the following:
1) Assume he's lying, unless there is independent proof that he's telling the truth
2) Make the pain of lying way worse than the pleasure to be gained from the lie.
3) Try not to let it get to you. In some cases, our challenging children are just wired differently. They aren't Machiavellian, so much as just terribly impulsive.

Hang in there.

Trinity

 

[dirtmama]

wow, difficult child just came home from school with- 10$. i took my nerve and called the parent of the child that he said he got it from. he wasn't lying and didn't steal it for a change. but he did swindle the poor little girl. (we will be giving it back) few, maybe now we can try again to have a mellow afternoon with- the kids...always hopeing......always looking for input.

 

[susiestar]

Wiz did this even into his middle teens. He would talk himself into deciding it was true. He also didn't always know where the line was between fantasy and reality. It happened over just about every dang thing.

A complete evaluation may be able to pinpoint any problems in distorted thinking. I once had Wiz spend most of a day learning that just saying it doesn't make it true. If he had the tv on I had him say, out loud, this is show X, when it was show Y. Or have him hold a piece of fruit and say it was a vegetable. Then I had him TASTE it to see if it was still the fruit or if his words were so special and magical that they changed an orange into a tomato.

On and on we went through this until he got the point. If he seemed to start believing his lies again, we did the experiment again.

 

[dirtmama]

Susie,
that's a good idea, i will try it. unfortunetly difficult child really tries to tell you what he thinks you want to hear// is a terrific manipulator //and super smart etc. (but not the best "actor") it makes it really hard to dig out whats inside his head. this goes for everything that's going on with him. he's a very complicated little boy, as his old therapist used to say. i know we all have these issues and all our kids are complicated. they are not the average, run of the mill. it's part of makes them so special. just for a minute inside his head, though...

 

[LittleDudesMom]

Susie, great ideas!

Sharon

 

[janebrain]

My difficult child 1 lied all the time too, even if confronted with the truth she would insist the lie was true. And she would lie about things that were so unimportant too--that telling the truth would have been just as easy as telling the lie. I never did figure out why she lied so much and she could be quite convincing too so that you wondered if you were the crazy one! She would also act so hurt and upset that we didn't trust her or believe her. I think she has gotten better but then I haven't actually seen her in person for over 2 yrs. I talk with her on the phone often and I know she may be lieing so I just take what she tells me at face value. At this point it doesn't really matter if she is telling the truth or not since I don't have to do anything about it.
Jane

 

[Nomad]

I'm very sorry.
It might be simply because he feels he is incapable of performing well and has low self esteem. He is unable to stand up to the consequences because he doesn't feel well about himself.
No doubt this has caused lots of heartache in your home. His lies just causes you to feel worse about him, his abilities, motives...about him overall. This in turn, makes him feel worse about himself. Perhaps he is more prone to lie then because he is hoping that if he lies successfully, it will be a feather in his cap.
I am presenting a best case scenario and possibly a likely scenario.
One thing you might want to consider is family therapy perhaps in in conjunction with indvidual therapy. I would use a separate therapist though.
If it gets worse, it could spell big time trouble.
I'm so sorry. This has got to be stressful....would definately double check with the professionals on this one.