I think I need to send my son away...........

[hearts and roses]

Welcome {{{ggluvbug}}},

I just wanted to send your some hugs and support and reiterate what everyone else has mentioned. He should be seen by a psychiatric neurologist and have his medications evaluated. This can be done outpatient and if you know that he's a trickster when it comes to swallowing his medications, then you can get ideas from the psychiatrist on how to handle that at home. I know what a pain it can be when our kids don't want to take their medications.

Also, I am one of those parents of a difficult child who has to take my own medications to cope. There was a time when I was very much against it, but I am so happy I gave it a try. I've gone off and on them 3 times in the past 3 years (I don't need them in summers *usually*) and I am so glad they are available. Really, it's something worth looking into for yourself.

Hugs~

ps: - just wanted to tell you that I love your screenname!

 

[flutterbee]

GG -

Just wanted to offer you support and hugs. Take care of you.

(((hugs)))

 

[timer lady]

You're in a tough position. Your difficult child appears to be unstable, not always medication compliant & at the onset of puberty. All of this equals a very ugly situation.

I know when my wm hit puberty we had to do a major revamp of medications - not changes of medications but huge dose adjustments. Something to consider.

I cannot second guess what is going on - I'm not in your shoes. Please know that I understand. All I can offer is a shoulder to lean on & an ear to listen.

 

[DDD]

One of my "pet peeves" is that psychiatrists often under prescribe medications. I have NO medical background. I just think it is
interesting that your out-of-control son is taking 250 mgs of
Depakote. Since the age of twelve, my difficult child takes TWO 500mg pills
every night. The rages quit within a couple of weeks and he has
no bad side effects. My gifted easy child/difficult child also take 100mgs a day
since his brain injury/surgery. For him he gets some indigestion
and it tends to lead to weight gain...but he does not exercise
much. DDD

 

[meowbunny]

I can't give you any suggestions on the medications other than it really does make sense to do a medication wash and new trial when puberty starts -- the body's chemistry is changing so old medications might not work any more. I can't even help you find a way to get your insurance to help you nor how to get someone to pay for an Residential Treatment Center (RTC) (unless you file a CHINS on your son and get the courts to order Residential Treatment Center (RTC) -- then I think you can get it on a sliding scale). I can let you know you're not alone and we do understood your frustration and pain.

As to the cost of an Residential Treatment Center (RTC), the reality is they're very expensive. One year can cost more than one year of an Ivy League college -- $45-60,000 plus clothing, field trips, your trips to visit, therapy, etc. is pretty much the norm. Sorry to be the bearer of such bad news.

I hope you get some answers and help soon.

 

[BusynMember]

I have bipolar and respectfully disagree that the bipolar and ODD are seperate for your son. There are differeing levels of stability in bipolar that show differing types of symptoms. I do think you need to figure out the medications and I highly recommend reading "The Bipolar Child" by Dimitri and Janice Papalous. It's in all book stores and libraries and is a great read that explains early onset bipolar. I've read it cover to cover and feel it's accurate from what I experienced. JMO that he's not deliberately being "bad."

 

[susiestar]

I think many people believe that ODD behaviors "come out" when other illness is stabilized. I don't think this is the case. For many people ODD is a symptom, not a disease or disorder.

I think your son is undergoing major physical, hormonal and emotional changes. It is very possible that he has another illness acting up in the mix. Sometimes one illness can be covered by another, and ODD just tells you something is not working.

I know what it is like to have the "black cloud" take your son over. It happened to our son periodically, and many times he could control it, but only for so long. After that it exploded out of him.

Please read Love and Logic Parenting, and Love and Logic Parenting for Teens. You can get more info, and some great free info at http://www.loveandlogic.com . This honestly did as much for us as medicines did. But my son has a different set of problems, and I don't mean to say we went off the medications after using the book. That is not at all what happens. I simply think they are equally important. I even went to a seminar given by one of the authors (Dr. Charles Fay) and it was amazingly helpful.

Sending big hugs,

Susie

 

[tammyjh]

I don't have any other advice than what was given here but wanted to say that I hope things settle a bit and that you can somehow get a break. Its not wrong to want your difficult child to disappear for a while and just feel "done". I've been there done that and its not fun but sometimes its where we have to be to be able to get back up. Hang in there!!

 

[Star*]

Luv bug,

Hi and hugs - Sounds like you're really going through it and your son too.

You know I used to hope, pray, think, expect a LOT out of my son when he would go into a hospital, get his medications tweaked, seem to do well there and then come home and fall apart. I would be on the phone immediately wondering WHAT was wrong with him.

A few things come to mind that I don't think have been mentioned but if they have I'm sorry to be repetitive. First - a hospital stay and medications tweak is NOT the be all end all for a cure or behavior intervention or anything. And the reason our kids seem to do better in that type of institutional environment is because there is MORE structure than we can possibly give at home. My son is now 17. In the years we had him in Residential Treatment Center (RTC)'s, hospitals and group homes - anything trying to help him - He was OFF the CHARTS - and I was asked by SEVERAL Residential Treatment Center (RTC)'s To just come and get him - take him home. We were desperate and just at wits end to say the least.

Sometimes in an Residential Treatment Center (RTC) setting they are able to work the level system. My son never ever did. Not even to level 3 of 5 - EVER. He refused. I blamed it for years on his disability and it became a crutch for him and his ill behaviors. I believe some of the behaviors you are seeing CAN be controlled. Obviously not all - but some. THAT is what Residential Treatment Center (RTC) settings are for. To help them learn coping skills to deal with the rest of the world. If they don't ever learn or agree that they can control their behaviors - then they don't and will end up very miserable, dependent adults.

I do not have answers for you - I have no idea what it's like to raise a BiPolar (BP) kid, although my son believes after all this time he is BiPolar (BP) and the psychiatric tends to agree. He refuses to go on medications - so there isn't much discussing it unless he really works hand in had with the psychologist to formulate and work on behaviors that are acceptable, so he can live with others, work with others, and support himself.

At 11 this seems like a far off worry - and who's to say - He had his medications tweaked BUT was in a controlled environment - SO my thought is like yours- If that's where he does better - let's get a plan together so that his current medications WILL work and the environment WILL be conducive to helping him calm down enough to learn acceptable behaviors and coping skills he will need to live outside an institution. I'm all for him going to an Residential Treatment Center (RTC).

In the MEAN TIME - YOU need to get into counseling as well. I don't say this without knowing what I'm talking about. Don't take it as a criticism - take it as advice from a well seasoned parent who's been where you are and KNOWS that without the help of a therapist to teach ME new coping skills - I would NEVER EVER be able to turn off, tune out - or be the best Mom I can be. I have gone for 11 years in an effort to show my son - if I can go you can too, and to be the best person /parent I can be. No shame in that. I mean I don't know how to fix a jet - but if someone handed me an 11 year old jet and said "Star - this problem jet is yours." - I wouldn't dare try to fix a thing without guidance from a professional because other lives depend on my ability to fix what is given to me. No different than a child with a disorder - if you aren't communicating now - find out how.

I hope you find something in this that helps. I had a child too that said the I hate you's, and ran away, and we called the police - but after the first time? Whenever he left? We did too- we locked the doors, windows, gates - and went and saw a movie. After we called the police to report him missing - and OH what a revelation it had. When difficult child was brought back by the cops - we learned how to greet him, NOT to baby him, NOT to yell at him, and it was the last time that he ever ran away - and ALL because we learned HOW to cut across his playing field. We did NOT go looking for him, we did NOT call his friends, We did NOT let him know we were worried, and we did NOT speak to him when he got out of the police car. We didnt' punish or dog him - we just said "Go to your room and stay there until we call for you because we WILL be discussing this, but RIGHT NOW? We're busy." It' killed him that we never went looking - (we must not care) - our reply - (who ran away from US) we must not give a dang if we couldn't even call his friends (Hey some friends and some Mother of those friends to let us worry - if they are such great friends they'll like your parents too and would have called us - we dont' think they are great friends and since you are so smart - couldn't figure you would hang with them again) Shuts em right down. And we sent the police looking for him??? (Well, yeah - it's the law and I have to cover my butt)

of course each child is different and that may not work with you and your son, but when you get with a good psychiatric who knows your son and what would make sense to him? It's great to feel on top just ONE time - lol.

Hugs
Star

 

[tessaturtle]

ggluvbug - we have been dealing with almost exactly the same behavior from our difficult child for the past 2 1/2 months! I am with you! It felt good to read your post just because I saw that we are not alone. I do not have any answers for you as we are still trying to figure out how to deal with this. Just know that I am right there with you!

Our difficult child's therapist feels that a lot of what he has been doing is controlled by him as well. Clearly his rages are out of his control, but its amazing and frustrating to watch him look right at you, smirk, and then do whatever it was you told him not to do.

smallworld- I find that interesting about your psychiatrist telling you that the smirk's with the oppositional behavior is the manic side. I'm going to ask difficult child's team (school therapist, home therapist, and medications prescriber) about that! We have seen other types of mania from him (out of control hyperactivity, loves everybody, happy, happy, joy, joy!). I think its worth asking about. Thank you!

 

[cathyw1970]

If I can offer some input. My difficult child was diagnosed with adhd when he was 4 and bipolar disorder when he was 9. Around the age of 12 everything changed. The warning signs of mania coming on, heck everything changed. Before then I had found ways to curve the mania. His would always start with night terrors leading to him afraid to go to sleep which would lead to a full manic episode. So what me and husband would do is when the night terrors started we would have him sleep with us and he felt secure enough to sleep and that stopped the mania. After he turned 12, that was about the time puberity set in, we no longer had any warning signs. I know what u mean by him being cruel one minute and smiling the next. Been there done that wayyyy to many times. And not sure if your difficult child is like mine but behavioral mods were a total joke. I think you are right about the odd part but I also think that the odd is triggering the BiPolar (BP) or that is how it is with my difficult child. It's kind of silly but it might be worth checking into. My difficult child tends to get like this if someone is giving him a hard time at school. Our difficult child's want so badly to be like everyone else that it breaks my heart that no matter how hard my difficult child tries he just doesn't fit in. Which causes a tremendous amout of stress which can trigger both disorders. I can't imagine the hell our kids must live in daily. When things are going badly I go in mom mode for my other children and I tend to forget what hell he must be goin thru. I feel your frustration and your pain. I'm there myself also. One thing that keeps me from throwing my hands up and saying "I quit" is this. God gave him to me for a reason. He is special and needs a different kind of parent than your typical parent. I'm not just his mother, I'm also his advocate, his doctor, his therapist and even sometimes when he allows me his friend. If your difficult child is anything like mine there is a dear sweet and caring side to him. That's the part that I feel is really him and that is what I hold on to.

 

[ggluvbug]

is there any way you can apply for CMO services through your state (Crisis Management Orginazation) I know in NJ you can only really get them if the school or child welfare services recommends them. I am in the process of being approved and through CMO you would receive an in home therapist and he or she would be able to make the determination if your son should be placed in a residential program or not and if so it would be payed for by CMO.

In Mississippi, there is nothing if I don't have Medicaid. And we make too much money for that. Our insurance stinks so we are even limited on what we can do with that. My son's therapist and I were discussing this today. She said that other states provide those kinds of services, but Mississippi does not.

 

[ggluvbug]

One of my "pet peeves" is that psychiatrists often under prescribe medications. I have NO medical background. I just think it is
interesting that your out-of-control son is taking 250 mgs of
Depakote. Since the age of twelve, my difficult child takes TWO 500mg pills
every night. The rages quit within a couple of weeks and he has
no bad side effects. My gifted easy child/difficult child also take 100mgs a day
since his brain injury/surgery. For him he gets some indigestion
and it tends to lead to weight gain...but he does not exercise
much. DDD

My son is on a total of 1250 of Depakote. They increased by 250 to total 1250.

 

[ggluvbug]

I spoke with the therapist today, and she referred me to a male therapist. It is her opinion that he is in control of his actions. He can turn it on or off. He snuck out of his bedroom window last night. That makes 4 runaways in a little over a week. He almost hit me with a broom last night and tried to break my van window. But he was an angel with his sisters. He isn't violent with them. He can use perfect restraint with them. I have noticed this in a lot of situations. I know that his BiPolar (BP) will be showing through some, but this looks and feels so different. The more I think back, the more I realize that this has been mounting for a long time. It has been like that tea kettle you don't pay attention to because there is something burning on the front burner. His mood swings were such that we were always fighting fires with that. He isn't cycling now. I have been dealing with his moods for years. So now, I am seeing alot of what I couldn't really see before. And add the puberty to it, and it is 10 times worse. The bad thing about ODD is that it can't be medicated away. I used to want a pill that could fix it all---I know that isn't possible. My son has to take some responsibility for his actions. We have done what we can, but he has to be willing also. Right now he isn't.

He will see his psychiatrist again soon. So I will discuss all of this with her as well. But she and the therapist have been discussing my son. From my understanding, she is thinking the same thing as the therapist.

I am trying the minimal response approach. It makes him so mad to see me not respond. But, I since I think this is more ODD than BiPolar (BP), I know that this is the best approach.

I do agree that I could use someone to talk to, but I simply cannot afford it right now...thank God for message boards! I just received a $10,000 bill for my son's last hospital stay....that is after the insurance. Plus with weekly therapy and monthly psychiatrist visits, I can't swing it.

 

[ggluvbug]

If your difficult child is anything like mine there is a dear sweet and caring side to him. That's the part that I feel is really him and that is what I hold on to.

What scares me more than anything else is that I am quickly losing that. I used to see that sweet child. He was there, but I am afraid he is gone.......

 

[Star*]

I think - believe with my own son. That the ONLY way I am going to ever have a chance to see the sweet side of him is to let him see the not so sweet side of me by being the parent.

Sticking to your guns isn't easy with these kids - but I'm finding now that I think I could have detached a lot earlier - and gotten better results. Different parenting for a different kid. You'd think smothering them with love WOULD be the answer - but I think it's letting them KNOW they are loved and in our case - letting him find out life by himself.

But I will tell you this - I don't care who anyone threatens to hit - I would call the police - I don't regret it - and something about a 6'6 man in a dark blue uniform with a gun stuck to his side telling difficult child how loathsome it was to even THINK about hitting a woman - YOUR MOTHER - really sad, and pathetic. And if he ever DID hit me - they would arrest him and then told him what would happen to him - and not even to threaten to do it or I was to call. Our problem was a little deeper because I was abused and I would have states where if hit - I'd black out and NOT know what I was doing. THAT was scary. It was better for my son to go to jail than to be pounded by me.

No maa'm I won't be bullied in my own home - I don't care if you are living with 1/2 a brain. Hitting solves NOTHING. And if that is the best coping skill you have for your anger with your Mother - then I'm going to get you LOADS of help - but you're not staying in my home.

Keep in mind too - SOME agencies will cross state borders for special cases. Just keep being the squeeky wheel.

Call the governors office and tell them you need help with a child who has outrageous behavior - see where they send you.

Hugs
Star

 

[ggluvbug]

Star,
Great idea about the governor's office. I have called the police several times on him,but surprisingly has little effect. My county doesn't have a detention center for kids my son's age so they won't take him for the night....they tell me to hospitalize. Well, that hasn't solved this behavior yet.

I have been the not so nice mommy lately. It is actually making things worse, but I am sticking to my guns about it. I am not going to be bullied and abused...which is what he is doing.

 

[nvts]

I don't know if this might work.

Can he get social security disability and therefore medicaid/care?

It's worth a try! $10,000 dollars! Holy crow!

Beth

 

[ggluvbug]

I don't know if this might work.

Can he get social security disability and therefore medicaid/care?

It's worth a try! $10,000 dollars! Holy crow!

Beth

We make to much for Medicaid, and I was assuming too much for SSDI. Someone told me to try it anyway. I get so many conflicting explanations about it. But, my husband and I both work so we have a decent income, but we also have crappy insurance. So we are damned if we do and damned if we don't! Our mental health coverage only covers 7 days in a 12 month period at 50%. And outpatient is 30 visits at 50% per 12 months. So I wind up having to fork over alot for that as well.

 

[EyesNeverLie]

Im new here and can relate with your story. I just registered to give you this information. There is a program called the Katie Beckett program that is a available for disabled children when their parents are above the income limits. I would check it out if I were you!