I want to know

Discussion in 'The Watercooler' started by susiestar, Dec 29, 2008.

  1. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    if my perspective or judgement is off.

    On Christmas Day I was at my mom's. My baby cat, Sammy (who is 10 lbs and about 7) was on my lap cuddling. My exSIL, K, sat down on the couch and my bro, C, sat on the floor.

    As SOON as their daughter, M, came in Sammy got up and went out of the room. He went under or behind anything that would hide him.

    K and my bro commented on it. C said something about her being rough with his border collies, though the momma collie is mostly outside or in the garage. The daddy is his 1st baby and sleeps with-him. He commented how rough she was with the dogs.

    K said that M is really rough with her dog, and she feels bad because it is such a little dog and M just grabs hold of the fur and pulls her around. The little dog is a shih tzu.

    M is 5 and in kindergarten. WAY more than old enough to know to be gentle with animals, in my opinion. When I see her grab the cats it is ALWAYS rough. They don't scratch or bite her, and they are always allowed to go hide in Grandpa's room. But her parents' dogs are not allowed to go hide from her.

    The border collie bit thank you when he was about 2. ANYTHING I said about the dog needing to not be around my child was "over-reacting". But my child barely touched the dog - I was right there and saw it! (I wanted the dog totally retrained, but again, just over-reacting Susie).

    M has been seriously bitten by 1 dog, an elderly dog she grabbed very roughly and my bro almost killed the dog. She has been snapped at by both of bro's border collies. And bitten 2 times when she yanked on the daddy - once on his private parts. These were considered teh DOG'S fault.

    Is it just me or does this child need to be SERIOUSLY worked with by her parents, or in homes with NO animals? I see it as being seriously unfair to the dogs. We still have the backyard breeder thing with my bro (to my eternal embarrassment - he still REFUSES to spay the momma or neuter the daddy - he didn't learn this from our parents!)

    One of the dogs is going to hurt her. Hurt her badly maybe. And it will NOT be the dog's fault. It will be her PARENTS' fault for refusing to see any problem. If one of the cats scratches her, it is NEVER her fault, it is because the cat is being mean.

    HOW do I get through to my bro that he is setting his daughter up to be hurt?? My cats are gentle. They cannot stand her. They come out for the washing machine repairman, and HIDE from her. It is one reason I will not babysit her - just not fair to my animals.

    Am I wrong? If not, is there anything I can do?
  2. Star*

    Star* call 911........call 911

    Susie -

    Inside my back door is a sign that states to people that the animals LIVE here. If people don't like that this is their house THEY are welcome to leave. In ten years of being with my DF the ONLY time I've ever seen him lay a hand on another person was the man who grabbed our bulldogs jowls and shook them saying "like that? Like that?" and DF grabbed the mans face and shook it saying "Do you like that? Do you?" then told him to NEVER touch his dog like that again - ever.

    I have lost friends because of making people at yard sales embarrassed for sticking up for the dogs that were being mistreated. In the sun, without water, or food. IT INFURIATES me.

    When we have had in the past smaller children over to our home we IMMEDIATELY have put our loveys up. People will say "Oh it's okay she has a dog at home or a cat at home." and we answer back - "We don't want to have to ask you and your child to leave because they pull hair, tug on body parts, hit, or slap an animal." Kids can and will do this. I think maybe up to three years old is the most I tolerate it even at someone elses home before I'd call humane society personnel and ask what to do.

    And have in the past.

    A five year old who has animals in fear of her reminds me of that dentists little niece in Finding Nemo. It's NOT the animals fault. They were not bred to be hit, slapped, have privates pulled. Dude has been bitten TWICE in the face by our Pitbull and bears the scars of a broken nose which hangs a bit out under his nostril. He won't have it fixed. I never put the dog to sleep. He annoyed, antagonized, teased, pushed, pulled, and taunted the dog despite our numerous attempts to stop it, finally telling him he could NOT be around the animals alone at any time. (gosh wasn't that fun) and we even considered finding them homes. Instead Dude got counseling.

    I'm sorry - your brother is dead wrong and if it persists, he needs to remember that a dog is truly still a wild animal and has instincts. They don't think like a human - they can't they are a dog. They think like a dog. Also I do know that acting out on an animal is also a red flag for emotional illness. Animal abuse is abuse - the fact that she doesn't see your cat too often and the cat runs? HUGE RED FLAG. Bravo to the cat for leaving and hiding. Avoided ugly situation I'd say.

    She needs to be taught how to handle animals. Period. If your brother isn't going to take the years and teach her I'm afraid he's headed down a pretty hard road with her. This abuse is a red flag.

    JUST my Humble opinion.....I'd call the ASPCA in your area and see what they have to say.

  3. ML

    ML Guest

    I agree with Star. It's not fair to the dogs. Your perspective is absolutely right on as usual! :) ML
  4. donna723

    donna723 Well-Known Member

    What Star said!

    I agree completely! If you have both children and pets, you should start teaching the children how to be gentle with the animals from the time they are very, very small! This is for the protection of the child as well as the pets. We always had both dogs and cats when my kids were little and I never would have tolerated them mistreating an animal - they were always supervised and learned to be very gentle.

    It's amazing how many people never bother teaching their children how to behave around animals. Nothing makes me madder than to see kids teasing or hurting an animal ... then when something happens and the animal reacts as an animal and tries to protect itself, it's always the dogs fault! And these parents are always the ones who insist that their kid would never do something like that!

    During the summer our little town had weekly street dances right in the intersection by my house and I would take Katy, my youngest Boston, because she loved to go! She's very sociable, loves meeting people, she's extremely gentle, loves kids, and it would never even occur to her to bite anyone. She sees everybody as a potential playmate. I was sitting there listening to the music with Katy right next to me, when this tiny little girl about four years old came up to me. She stood back a little and very politely asked, "Can I pet your dog?" When I said "Yes", she held her hand out and let Katy sniff it first, and when Katy licked her, she very gently petted her on the head. Of course, Katy was thrilled. About that time an older man, probably her grandfather, came up and asked me, "Did she ask if she could pet the dog?" and I told him that she had! I was just amazed that SOMEBODY had actually taught their child how to approach an animal they don't know and to ask first before they touch them! So many kids will just reach and grab without knowing ... if they have a dog at home they assume that all dogs are friendly and not all of them are!
  5. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    It is funny how you all see my point and perspective. And husband does. He feels so sorry for any animal that lives with niece.

    When Bro is in the right "mood" or situation he is very gentle and works with niece. ExSIL does not. They BOTH say, "honey that is how the _____ tells you he doesn't like it when you ________. He can't use words, so (scratching, biting, hiding, whatever) is how he talks to you."

    Notice that "NO. Do NOT pull hair, bite, yank, the animal." is not said. They both say NO to niece for certain things. But NOT for animals.

    I am sure niece will/does have emotional/mental illness. She is 5, tall as Tyler, and talks about how fat she is. she is not skin and bones, but she is NOT overweight at ALL. She IS tall, but her brothers are both over 6'4". And her mom is almost 6'. But mom has quite a number of mental illnesses, as does dad.

    But somehow, in the world of my family, I am wrong. The animals only hide because they want to play hide and seek.



    And it is a good idea to breed dogs in the backyard. (Y'all have NO idea how ashamed I am of that with him. I can ONLY speak about it HERE.That poor momma dog, and her poor babies.)
  6. katya02

    katya02 Solace

    I agree with you and the others, Susie. No question, that five year old is abusive toward animals and I would shut mine away (or let them hide, as you do) if a child like that came over. In fact, I always put our elderly Lab in our bedroom (with her bed and toys, water etc. and no kids allowed in) and let the cats hide anytime kids come over, nice kids or not. I don't want the situation to even potentially happen.

    I think you've done all you can do - not babysit and make sure your animals aren't abused by your niece - until her parents clue in.
  7. donna723

    donna723 Well-Known Member

    I think it all falls back on the attitude of the parents about animals. If the parents sincerely love the pets they will teach the children to love and respect the animals too. When kids are really little, like toddler size, they don't realize the difference in a live puppy or kitten and a stuffed toy. They have to be taught that the pet is a real live little creature that feels pain when they are mishandled and the parents have to supervise and make sure that the pet isn't mistreated by the child. You can't just do this when you feel like it, you have to stay right on top of it.

    I hate to say it, but if your brother insists on raising puppies in his back yard, he probably sees them more as a commodity, something to make money off of, not as a little living creature that should be loved and cared for. I think, with pets, you either "get it" or you don't, you either make that emotional connection or you don't - and he doesn't! And if he doesn't, his child probably won't either!
  8. tiredmommy

    tiredmommy Site Moderator

    Susie, I don't say this lightly but you should strongly consider reporting your brother for have a puppy mill. I'm sure you can be anonymous. It sounds like the poor animals are miserable and the parents are endangering their daughter by not giving her the proper training to be around these animals.
  9. flutterbee

    flutterbee Guest

    Susie, there may also be licensing laws or ordinances involved with breeding where he is. I'm not sure what OK's stance on puppy mills are, but I know that several states have been cracking down.

    Re: your niece: Wynter's only friend has only been rough with animals. She doesn't mean to hurt them; she's just never been taught how to properly handle them. She's never been reprimanded for being too rough - except by me and the babysitter. We've all made comments to the mom and the dad. But, they don't really deal with it. Actually, they don't deal with it at all.

    I wish I had some advice, but I really don't other than reporting it to the humane society or whatever.

    But, I think you're right on with your perspective.
  10. amazeofgrace

    amazeofgrace New Member

    that's a tough one when it comes to dealing with family! I have a scene from finding Nemo flashing through my mind! LOL
  11. Hound dog

    Hound dog Nana's are Beautiful


    I'll tell you, my kids grew up with pets. Several were even during their babyhoods. I teach pet manners to children. Not even babies were allowed to hurt an animal. There is no pulling, squeezing, yanking, ect allowed. I don't care what the age. If the child is too young to understand, remove the child or put the pet in a protected area away from the child. At 2 a child can learn empathy, and in my home are punished for such things.

    My kids got it. Travis had a weird thing with cats when he was little. Nichole had a kitten given to her. Next thing I know Travis is locking the little guy up in anything that closes all over the house. Never hurt him. Just kept locking him up. Kitten got a great new home. He'd never done it with any other animal.

    Aubrey is 2 and wouldn't think to pull a tail or do anything to hurt the many pets in this house or her Dad's house......or anywhere. I was worried over Darriin for a bit as sister in law is too rough with dogs. It carried over to Darrin over here. Broke his heart to find he'd sit in time out over and over if necessary until he stopped being too rough. I don't have anymore issues with him and the dogs love him. easy child also had a heart to heart with sister in law over it. She was furious.

    I agree with Star. Something is going to have to be done or this child will be seriously injured, and you're right, it won't be the dogs fault.
  12. gcvmom

    gcvmom Here we go again!

    You are not out of line at all.

    They need to teach her how to be kind and safe with animals. Just as we teach animals how we expect them to behave around us. You cannot mistreat an animal and expect it to just sit there and take that kind of abuse. It's completely unreasonable. Unfortunately, you can only voice your concerns and hope they see the light. There's really not much else you can do, I don't think.