If I offend I apologise.

Discussion in 'Special Ed 101' started by Ropefree, Feb 27, 2009.

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  1. Ropefree

    Ropefree Banned

    I am new to the cyber world and I lucked on to this site poking around. Clearly I have been upset and I do know that I have reason to be upset.
    And I am not insensitive, despite the cutting edge of my words. I am angry.
    I have listened to and believed people who were not on mark and who do not truly understand over the years with respect to my sons issues. And it is he who misses out and he who compensates and he does deserve the care and attention and the appropriate guidance and services that can help him.
    So I am discouraged, frustrated, and maybe I do not understand fully what this site is intending to provide. Perhaps my lack of familiarity with the cyber experiance and connecting in written word with the great wide internet is what I am getting these messages.
    Asserting or attacking? I do feel that it is in the communication that the essence of what is perceived is shared. When I use language that describes or is intended to:describe from my view the shadow side of how this journey in life has been for me like when I referred to "rage queens" or when I referred to "jqesq. Saint mcmoney" what I hoped my reader would consider is that openly critizising a person for feeling hurt by being reacted to when hye, it is awfull having this like this for my child or for me as a parent.
    As inflamitory as it is as a thought the legal proffession does make more off of criminal cases than off Disability Act for children. When pay for service is the point of contention for access to services that do require a viguerous
    and committed legal representative. Recall the attorney is looking at what is worth his time. so that does share an opinion that some are worthless.
    And it is the worthlessness that a child with a conduct disorder and or a learning disability are confronted at all times.
    This is not the first child or the only child who has not recieved the services or the correct attention they do require to have success in learning.
    I have been receiving posts that share the opinion that at an age level or due to the schools prioritising it is condoned to neglect.
    I hope and I am a voice for ending the discontent (malaise) and for taking the oppertunity to use what we do have as knowledge to aid students not when they are failing only, not after they fall apart, not when it troubles a teacher because the class is disrupted by a child with a disorder.Or not to neglect because the child posses not one bit of trouble to another. but because they are unique and their process to learn and the skill to do so is possible.
    We pay anyway, don't we? We pay when our children are untreated and fail and do not learn and become court issues. We pay at lost productivity when a child is and adult who has compensated all their life on negative attention and can not contribute. We pay with Kazinskis' who are used in experiments at Harvard but are not giving care to unique guenious and the potential for madness that can be cultivated by shunning a great mind and mocking a fragile psyci.
    I am aware that I have offended and I do not intend to seem to attack. I mean what I ask when I question those who are writing that they do not understand me,or suggest that english must not be my language. Or that you can not imagine what country I am from.
    The disability act for children in schools needs to be implemented and not have the biases of folklore prevent these children and younge adults from receiving the services so do well as students.
    It is not so much work, it is what is needed.
    Also, I may decide to query others about the way I can better provide you with what you may need to help more. I am leery of disclosure. and I am leery of the critisms that have been directed at me for my view. Not that I am not understood,so much as when I am told my words are so unwelcome that I am locked out. I really wonder about that. How is it that what I offer is so detestable? I am mostly talking and writing about the lack of concern for chidren withlearning needs. Kids like mine. worthy kids.
  2. JJJ

    JJJ Active Member


    I want to be sure I understand before I offer any suggestions. You have a teenage son with ADHD who is not succeeding in school. You feel that the school is not meeting his needs so that he can fully access his education. The school has given you the run-around regarding re-evaluation and services. You tried to get a lawyer involved but the cost was prohibitive. Based on your references to the ADA, you are in the USA.

    Is that correct? Are you here to get suggestions on how to get the school to provide the services you feel will help your son succeed at school?
  3. Ropefree

    Ropefree Banned

    JJJ: yep..my son was iep and he had services which the school did not give him. His learning issues are with writing. In the beginning rather than provide him with help with writing in terms of handwriting , or fine motor skills, the Team told me that he could keyboard and that this would end the matter. Then in middle school they would blame him for not wanting to keyboard on the contraption they offered him, that he felt made him stand out. which as an unaviodable personality he did anyway. then when he did learn to and very well they said that was all that is needed.
    I did insist on and get an Occupational Therapist (OT) to observe him, but he merely reflected watching him reading, which he does with relish, and said that he saw he could read for more than ten minutes.
    Writing I was told then is not offered past elementary school.
    He had a teacher who said during that middle school time that he didn't believe in adhd and that he did great with adhd diagnosis in his class. Then he complained that my son was not looking at him when he lectured he was doodling. So the treating psyciatrist, who was adhd himslef, wrote a reccomendation that he have enrichment for intrest to aid in distractability.
    he said that when he attended lectures and converences he would not go without something to write on.
    I offered the idea that the teacher invite him to take notes. like key words or draw pictures that were relevant to what was said, as in realtiy he was listening and what he was doing was helping him to pay attention in class.
    He had a teacher who refused to allow him to do homework in class and would not respect the medications wore off befor his long bus ride home.
    In high school they said he had to have a Special Education class to recieve Special Education and this I learned a couple weeks ago is just not honest. He lost out on the enrichment and he lost out on elective that he would now be in year three and not one.
    His english teacher is the only teacher who did meet with me after I had asked to meet when he was having lower grades for him. SHe described him as showing excellent knowledge in verbal presentations yet his writing was less that was required in terms of pages, although he included the bibliography which many student did not. She pointed out he could present to the class with out refering to his notes and was the best presentor in the honors english.
    His congnitive and comprehension are superior. The writting, now typed , remains his nemous.

    Then last year they told me lies like that he had to switch to 504 because the doe requires it, that iepservices couldn't be provided to him anymore, that he could not have a full class load and have iep services, that he could not take honors or AP classes with iep and that he would not be accepted in colleges of universities with iep.
    The Team plans from grade nine to grade 11 have not been followed. I have run myself ragged trying to get the plan or accomidations to include anything that would work to directly help him learn what he does need to know.
    The conseling was cut as he did not connect with the conselor who really did not have any fit for him, it was clear to me meeting with her. It is a delicate and personal relationship and with boys that person has to connect or it is meaningless.
    I did DEMAND the re-evaluation form and now the school is offering the evaluation meeting....shifting the dates back again and again again.
    meanwhile I HAVE now many times since the last four years asked for the re-evaluation. The schools have said until he is below C they can do nothing.
    When he gets to C they do nothing.
    he was never remenial. He has excellent skill in English and math. He is in honors chem. Yet his teachers all report the same issues and they have never never never placed him in a situation with a specialist who does know and can present him with the means for coping with his issues.
    these things are in my family like a bad collick. And when I was attending to my family last week watching my Dad who is retired professional and found conpenitory means throughout his life to cope I saw with freash eyes why holding back the care for needs of children early is so so cruel.
    He pumps himself with anger, my Dad does, to focus. It is a way of dealing with adhd that I feel is so important that a younge person learn not to do. not to wait for the deadline and adreanal surge, not to muster anger to focus. my Dad dances it with such skill, but that is what it is. now I see it at 50. It looked far more meanacing as a younge person. And I can count my blessings that i had the forsight and wherewithall to avoid teaching such to my own son.
    he has had his moments. One brought me here. YEt these pop up in the between stages of his growth and have not been daily events.
    The education therapy group I talked to last month have materials and means to adress these things and this is what he does and has needed. I am certain that with the training specific to him, and the tutoring support he would enjoy the AP writting that will prepare him for college, as well as give him the hands on help that he can ask for by name as time goes by in life.
    Also he does need conseling with someone who can help him to work through the issues he does have as someone who has a disorder. it is appauling to me that we continue to have this toss the kid in the water they will learn how to swimm attitude. Or to somehow find more honorable the person who has a disorder or learning issue who makes way with out help. It is like waiting to see if the wheel is recreated. Why? why not tool them when younge and let them show how far we go with a strong start?
    Does this shed light? is there any other question I could answer that would help you advise me?
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2009
  4. SRL

    SRL Active Member

    JJJ outlined these facts above which you agree with:
    1) You have a teenage son with ADHD who is not succeeding in school.
    2) You feel that the school is not meeting his needs so that he can fully access his education.
    3) The school has given you the run-around regarding re-evaluation and services.
    4) You tried to get a lawyer involved but the cost was prohibitive.
    5) Based on your references to the ADA, you are in the USA.

    6) I also believe you said in another post that this is his junior year.

    You agreed with JJJ that he is not succeeding in school yet you seem to be saying above that he's in honors chem, has excellent math and English skills, and the school is not giving him any help because his grades are C's and above.

    Exactly in what way or ways is your son not succeeding in school?
  5. Sheila

    Sheila Moderator

    It's easy to miscommunicate in cyberworld. 70% of conversational language actually comes from 'body language.' The body language can't be seen in cyberworld.

    I think I know exactly what you're going through as it pertains to school issues. School districts are mandated by Federal and State laws, rules and regulations to do XYand Z for IEP students. As you become more aware of what is suppose to be happening and isn't, the angrier you get. At some point the anger reaches a boiling point and consumes you.

    Reading the regs, terms similar to the ‘IEP team shall be composed of knowledgeable educators and the parent' made me grit my teeth to keep from shouting, 'Yea, what do you do when there are none?'

    I also stumbled into this site one day after desperately searching for help for my son. My son got lucky " I found the board when he was pretty young. I've learned many things here. I was shocked to learn that special education isn't confined to kids with mental retardation. That's how naïve I was about special education.

    Our sd created the need for me to learn special education. There were no advocates nearby, the majority of lawyers who specialize in sp ed are under retainer by sds and I couldn't afford them if they weren't. The attorneys that work pro bono were backed up for years or our case wasn't 'bad enough.' What to do?

    I used the anger to drive me to learn IDEA and Sect 504, I helped out on this board when I felt adequate enough to respond, and I eventually joined an advocacy agency and opened a branch locally. Later I was asked to become one of the moderators for this board.

    I'm by no means an attorney, but I can help parents learn about their children's educational rights under IDEA. Until fairly recently, I handled a lot of correspondence between parents and sds and attended IEP meetings. I never charged for my time or expenses. The only thing I asked in return is that they reach out and teach other parents of children with-disabilities about IDEA every chance they got.

    There's not enough of me to go around. There's not enough advocates, attorneys, treacher's trained in your child's disability(ies), etc., anywhere. Not enough of anything including money.

    I believe it was A's Mom that posted long ago that there's not enough money in the world to 'fix' the system. There are too many children in need, not enough people.

    Some things I can share that may help you put things into perspective.

    Teachers are taught to teach -- period. Parents on this board tend to think that the only problems educators have to deal with-are neurological disorders that we discuss. Not true. As parents, don't assume educators know what your child needs. http://www.conductdisorders.com/forum/showthread.php?t=452

    Don't expect anyone to have the same emotional investment in your child that you do " it's not going to happen. It can't.

    Nobody, but nobody knows your child like you do. Whether you want to or not, as Fran once told me, you are the 'Captain of the Ship.' http://www.conductdisorders.com/forum/showthread.php?t=132

    I could go on rambling but this is too long already. The main points I wanted to make is you are going to need to learn to channel your anger or it will eat you up. I chose to do it by way of putting myself in a position to advocate for my child and others.

    It's almost a "requirement" for parents to learn IDEA.

    There's nothing wrong with-ranting on the board. I've done it many times. I do try to preference as a "rant" so it's not taken personally by anyone. Just don't direct your anger to the people that are here to support and help you. We are all in the same boat and working toward a common goals, e.g., learning from each other, helping our kids, supporting each other..

    Sometimes I don't agree with something someone posts. I take a "time out" before replying or I don't reply at all. lol

    I don't recall that you've said anything in Sp Ed that requires an apology. If you feel you may have stepped on some toes on other boards on this site, apologize there. It's been my experience that we're a pretty forgiving bunch.
  6. JJJ

    JJJ Active Member


    Like Shelia said, your anger at the school district is understandable. We have all been there. I think we can help you focus your anger into some things that while they may not get you everything you want from the school district, may be able to get your son some help. If the school sees that the help is working, they may be more willing to offer more. (If you want a loaf a bread but someone offers a few slices at a time, accept and eventually you may end up with the full loaf.)

    To first touch on the ADHD issues: you said his medications wear off before he gets home, making homework an impossibility. My daughter Piglet has the same problem. Her doctor added a 10mg Ritalin booster than she takes after school on days she has homework or another activity that requires her to focus (cello lesson, practice, etc.). It has helped alot with getting her up to speed on her homework. The doctor also upped her AM XR dose to make it last through the entire school day. When is the last time your psychiatrist evaluated your son's medications?

    WRT your son being in honors classes, that alone does not negate him having an IEP. His inability to write and his difficulty with attending to the lessons COULD qualify him for an IEP but as you have found school's are far more likely to put a child who is succeeding in school (which by passing unmodified honors classes your son is by definition) on a 504. But like a gifted child in a wheelchair, you can be passing honors classes and still have Special Education needs. Have you checked out www.chadd.org to see if there is a support group near you? There may be other parents in your area that have suggestions on your specific school district.

    It sounds like you would like your son to get Occupational Therapist (OT) assistance in writing as well as help learning to focus. Can you get an appointment with the Occupational Therapist (OT) and bring her samples of your son's work? Maybe if you are able to show her why you feel there is a problem she could either do a full assessment or give you some therapies that he could do on his own.

    It sounds like your son is a senior? or maybe a junior?? If the therapies are offered, how willing is he to put in the hard work to see some benefit? I know with all of my children we have some IEP goals that are on "hold" because they are refusing to work with the teachers on them. Especially once they hit their teens, they do have to be a part of the solution (as do the teachers, I'm not letting them off the hook!)
  7. JJJ

    JJJ Active Member

    One more thing, once he gets to college there are learning support centers that can help him get the help he needs to succeed. Most professors only accept typewritten work so he won't stand out carrying around a laptop. Also, many classes -- especially at large state universities have notetakers and their notes are available to any student that pays the cost of photocopying them (2-3 cents/page). College is also more-ADHD friendly than high school, only requiring 50 minutes of focus at a time for most classes.
  8. Ropefree

    Ropefree Banned

    Thanks for some ideas. Actually the writing piece is a challenge that until they test him again we have no reason to think, given his grades and issues in the subjects, that he has "learned" what he does need to to "get" what he can do.
    At this point the fact is "hard" work is not really what is his issue, he needs to have the right means for him to use, the person who has the facts and has the knowledge and the time placed in a schedule so that he does 'get' what he has not yet. I quess that some folks are not aware that when adhd learners "try" they actually cut off the means that works best for them. What is best is the steady and effeciant model as they do not rellish redos at all. Or this one does not.
    The issue with writing is what did qualify him for iep and like I believe I did say that was attributed soley to the handwritting..still never adressed at all. Yet although he shows clear print in the typing essentially the same issue that he is not able to place in writing the content he does know.
    His current english teacher.
    Writing significantly stiffles his ability to show success in school. He "should" be able to Ace AP classes given he does learn material with excelent retention. HE "should" be able to maintain A level work in any subject.
    Adding medications for him does not follow his treating docs care. He is having enough trouble at this age sleeping and getting up.
    The dosing for boosts is not what is used as he has trouble with the up and down ride involved.
    He has enough trouble going down one time per day. Two times to exstend an eight hour "work day" hmmm, well, hmmm.
    Also for someone who does not know him it is easy to speculate that he needs "hard work" he is a very stronge worker. He needs to have a qualified knowledgable specialist who is sensitive and can contribute from a wealth of knowledge that we do not have working now.
    It is about doing and not about knowing but not having the skill to share it.
    That is his problem...everyone has an opionion and they have no trouble telling him what he 'should" and "should not" but noone is on board who is in the process with him helping him learn what illudes him.
    HE needs to understand himslef. and he needs knowledgable people/person who lends the know how and strength of being in the river with him.
    I have had it up to my eyeballs with trying to do the advocacy without a pro on our side.
    I have been lied to to much already. Recall this is year 12 K-11. They always say they wish more parents cared as I do, but they never pointed out the resourses that parents they do know use that are a fit. it feels icky.
  9. LittleDudesMom

    LittleDudesMom Well-Known Member Staff Member


    When your son was tested and met the criteria for an IEP, what was his "classification?" Does/did he have a non verbral learning disorder, disgraphia, etc.?

    My son is plagued by disgraphia, but I have noticed that with constant, constant, constant working on it, it has gotten better. However, he still has such a difficult time transferring what is in his brain to paper (what has gotten better is that he doesn't get frustrated when he has to do a lengthly writing assignment and his hand writing has improved - he still has trouble with taking notes). This can often present as him not knowing the information - but that is very often far from the case.

    I do agree with Sheila in regards to posting your apology on the board where the offense was taken. We are all here trying to help our kids - we love them without fail. When our hearts are involved we can get pretty emotional. We fight so much for our kids, we don't want to fight here.

    Sometimes it is hard to turn off.

  10. Sheila

    Sheila Moderator

    The only other things I can tell you is if the 504 plan isn't working, request an evaluation under IDEA regs via Certified Mail to see if he requalifies for an IEP. If you don't agree with-the sd's report, ask for an IEE.

    You can also file Complaint(s) with Office of Civil Rights (OCR) and perhaps Office of Special Education Programs (OSEP). You can also file a complaint with-your State Education Agency. You can find information on how to do this on their respective websites.

    by the way, if writing (output) is adversely impacting his academics, one related service that you can ask for under Sect 504 or IDEA is a scribe.
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2009
  11. SRL

    SRL Active Member

    Ropefree, if you are dealing with an academically advanced high schooler with a disability I suggest that you subscribe to the GT-Special forum at GT-World. Those parents are going to be more accustomed to dealing with school districts with both of these circumstances, as opposed to our Conduct Disorder site where the primary focus is behavior. I used to subscribe some years back and there were a lot of parents of older kids posting.

    Last edited: Feb 28, 2009
  12. Nancy

    Nancy Well-Known Member Staff Member

    I think you have been given some very good advice by some very knowledgeable members.

    I understand your frustrations but I think it is the way in which you say things and the generalizations you make that offend. My husband is a criminal attorney and I can tell you that they are the most underpaid in the profession, unless you happen to be one of the few high profile criminal attorneys in the country. My husband is very committed to his clients and puts them above everyone else when in trial. He carries their fear with him and he worries every day that he will not be able to help them. He is away from home all the time, very often for extended periods of time, he misses family activities, dinner at home with the kids, sleeping in his own bed, and faces lonely dinner alone in a hotel room surrounded with stacks of files, endless travel with heavy brief cases in tow, and stress that would drop most of us to our knees. I just picked him up at the airport last night from a trial out of town, he will get back on a plane Sunday morning to continue. In the week he was gone I faced numerous crisis and challenges with my difficult child alone. He is expected to give free legal advice to anyone who knows him even slightly and to do that happily. He tosses and turns in bed at night grinding his teeth worrying about his cases.

    So when I read the generalizations about no good attorneys who don't care about anyone but themselves and are only out for the money, I just stop reading. If you only knew how many clients end up not paying him after all of the work he went through for them and their family.

    I don't mean to take away from your post about Special Education. If you want to take the suggestion and post your apology in the forum where your comments were made, I will gladly edit this reply and put it on that thread. Also I do not wish my comments to become part of the response, I just wanted you to know why some members may be offended and that is what you referred to at the start of this thread. I don't take your comments personally because I know you have no idea what my husband does or how he cares about his clients. But I have learned over the years to be careful about who I complain about because it is always someones mother, father, husband, wife, son or daughter and most of them are all trying to do a good job. And often so much more goes into that job then I could ever imagine.

    I do wish you luck in getting help for your son.

    Last edited: Feb 28, 2009
  13. ThreeShadows

    ThreeShadows Quid me anxia?

    I don't know, Nancy, my husband is/was a physician, for decades I lived a lonely life too, raising kids by myself, everyone assumed we were millionaires (not going to happen in a small Maine town...). I find myself getting angry at MDs too, especially octomom's doctor. It used to hurt to hear people make assumptions about husband's profession, now I can step back and not take it personally.

    I can feel Ropefree's frustration, I too was deceived by the SD in Maine when I was desperately floundering around trying to get help for my boys. I had not yet found this site, I believed the SD when they told me that a diagnosis of ADHD was not enough to get them extra help. When they got their first freshman report card (all D's) I called the alternative school for help and was told that they did not take freshmen and that they had to be consistently failing all their classes for consideration to be allowed admission! These were two really smart boys but they were lost and didn't know how to succeed.

    I suspect Ropefree is getting frantic because her son is in the last couple of years of HS. I know that felt so final and so desperate when I was in her position.
  14. Ropefree

    Ropefree Banned

    Again, when I am expressing myself in my own words about the experiances I have had and witnessed and lived through I promise you that I am not doing so to offend anyone who is not those involved.
    Nancy, I respect that you feel as you do and all, yet I am not discussing your husband. i was not generalizing. I was refering and naming satricly one attorney, and when I did, I was cautioning the reactive individuals who are finding that my expressions are not understandable. I get it that I annoy and I am sincere that I am not attempting to be offensive.
    Nancy, when I have read threads and posts that I have found disticintly offensive over these months I have not jumped in to berate the white racism that is tolerated when the thanksgiving comments were made like saying that the pioneers on the pairie didn't want to share thanksgiving with the Native People. And I did not complain when the Christmas holiday was heavily commented on. I just read and went along. Also when the ellections were under disscussion.
    I honestly found you did jump in with your criminal defense attorney husbands family issues and what I quess is not a good line of work for a carreer that is for building wealth in all cases.From what you have to say. My issue is with children in public schools who are not enjoying the intended services required for them under the disability act.
    I apologize that my use of language is distasteful to you. I am often told I have a way with words, and I will be going with that input, and for what it is worth, I will continue not to worry that you are not enjoying how I write.
    I do not intend to offend, try to see things with a sence of humor, if you can. My issues are not your issues, and I will be sharing what is true for me and will accept being locked out, found unworthy or whatever. I have a point of view, I am intitled to it, I am not lued or off the mark.
    From my point of view some folks could use to stop taking themselves so seriously and stop denying that bad things are happening to innoscent and
    worthy children.
    Dis Act goes to age 20 for schooling and that goes for the "he is almost an adult" crowd. Not all families kick out the memebers at a certain age. some families stand by their children through school and into their younge adulthood because that is how some families work.
    Thank you, I hope that my veiws are not so offensive that I am again lambasted, because I honestly feel that it is not honest for anyone to say that what I am saying is not also known by others. If you are not seeing these things, my quess is you are not looking very deeply at how it is for others.
  15. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    ??? Racism ???
    Too much Christmas????
    ??????? The elections? We were careful not to discuss them.
    Were these "examples" really necessary?

    I think I'll leave it at that. I have a tendency to speak my mind too, and this isn't a good time to do that.
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2009
  16. Sheila

    Sheila Moderator

    That's all folks! End of nitpicking on this forum.

    Take all racism comments private.
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