If you could raise your kids again, what would you change?

[Tired Mom]

When my husband announced he was quitting his job to go back to school to get his phd when difficult child was one I should have separated from him and have him take difficult child. It was a terrible trigger for me my mother left my father when I was 7 and went back to school. She barely worked for 5 years and my father was definitely a deadbeat and never paid child support. Those years as a child were really a case of barely having enough food, very few clothes, living in the projects, etc. I was bound and determined to never be that poor when I grew up. I thought I had escaped that poverty after graduating from college and getting a job but when he quit his job it brought back all those terrible memories and it put all of the pressure on me. I had to work and had all financial responsibilities, I had all responsibilities for taking care of difficult child because he was busy with school, I had all responsibility for cleaning the house because he busy with school. I did not handle the pressure well at all. I know that it was not good for difficult child. I wish more than anything that I could take back those years difficult child did not deserve to grow up in that environment where I was so angry. I can never make up that up to difficult child and it hurts for me to know that my anger at that time was part of what made him a difficult child and that there is nothing that I can ever do to make it up to him. It sickens me because my mom was always angry and I was always the target of her anger since she didn't remarry until I was 22 and never had any more children. I never wanted to be like my mother and I look back at those years and that anger was exactly like my mother.

I also wish I had really understood how much mental illness is inherited. There is so much mental illness in my family and my husbands family that I really never should have had children.

Finally when difficult child first started acting out at four I should have pushed back more on husband when I wanted to take his phycologist or someone to work with him and husband said no.

 

[BusynMember]

Tired, I feel a need to address your regrets. First and foremost, mental illness is in my family and just like you, especially when Bart had to drop out of college because of it, I berated myself that I had a biological child. I had also thought that maybe I shouldn't have had any kids. I adopted the rest of my kids. I understand how you felt because of this but neither of us were sure our children would inherit mental illness. Just because it's in the family doesn't mean it will happen for sure. We can't blame ourselves for this.

As for staying in a bad marriage or getting angry...this is not uncommon and not all children raised this way turn out difficult.

We all regret some things we did. That's what this thread is all about. Please be kind to yourself. We did the best we knew how. All of us. You too.

Have a peaceful night.

 

[Lil]

Lil. This makes me sad. You did every single thing you knew to do. I did too. So did the rest of us.

Yes, I know. But hindsight is 20/20 and now when I look back, I see everything as a mistake. I wish I'd have put him in a different school. Jabber and I even discussed military school at one point, he was so difficult at times. I don't think I'd have gone that route, but a psychiatrist and counseling for sure and a parochial school probably. We should have done more "family" things. We should have drug him to bowling and paintball and other activities - he liked them, we all did, but we just never went. We should have kept him in martial arts. We let him try anything he wanted with respect to sports, but if, after the season he wanted to quit, we let him. For martial arts, his dojo closed and he didn't want to find another, so he quit.

I should have seen this coming. I can't believe at the age of 17 I was suddenly confronted with his smoking K2 and stuff. He wasn't the person I thought he was. He was so close to being an adult, we did nothing. I don't know what we could have done? But something.

So yeah. I feel like I did everything wrong. I loved him and just kind of assumed he'd grow up into a good kid. We're good people. Good people have good kids, right?

A lot of the time I feel that I was a lazy mother and that I was a fool.

 

[in a daze]

I see everything as a mistake. I wish I'd have put him in a different school. Jabber and I even discussed military school at one point, he was so difficult at times. I don't think I'd have gone that route, but a psychiatrist and counseling for sure and a parochial school probably. We should have done more "family" things. We should have drug him to bowling and paintball and other activities -

You're much too hard on yourself, Lil.

We did all of the above. Public grammar, Parochial HS. Lots of activities. Sports. P doctor. Therapist. Tutor. Etc.Etc. Friends over. We let him have wrestling matches with his friends in the basement! We sent him to summer camp!

All of this. How much of a difference did it make?

I don't know.

He would do better for a while, and then backslide again.

He's 29 now, and doing much better, but isn't working full time yet.

His issues superseded all we tried to do for him.

Sometimes, maybe, it's just holding your boundaries, making demands, waiting for them to grow up.

 

[Copabanana]

now when I look back, I see everything as a mistake.

Lil. What should we call the color of glasses, that are the opposite of rose colored ones? The opposite and complementary side of the color wheel would indicate "puce." Kind of like puke. I will take the liberty of calling these glasses of yours puke colored glasses.

Everything is not all bad. Are our kids, most of them, a mess? Yes. Do they right at this moment reflect back to us, a child rearing product that does not compete with our fantasies? Yes. Is this a moment in time (a seemingly never-ending one)? Yes.

There is no way to know if changing one thing in terms of what we did or did not do or how we did it, would change the result? We love these kids? Would we want to turn them in for another model? Even though we are unhappy right now, I do not think so.

Your son (and mine, still, at 27, have more aspects of gangly 10 year olds, and adolescents than they do of grown men. But I can see the man emerging in my own son. And I like him a lot. I respect him a lot. He is kind and caring. Gentle and wise. His values are almost identical to my own. His heart is sweeter and more open.

You never read these words a year ago, because the hostile, defiant mess of a kid was still in the forefront. I think we have to remember that these are moments on he way to something else. Your son is not an end product now. Nor is he a product. Let us patiently wait together to see what comes.

To me, your son is a powerful individual. A capable one. Let us see what he makes of this. Like my own son, yours has no meanness. He is not small or petty, that I can see. What he is is lazy and undisciplined.

He will find his purpose, just as you found yours, and me, my own.

I loved him and just kind of assumed he'd grow up into a good kid. We're good people.

Lil. I think we were separated at birth. This is exactly what my child-rearing philosophy was. Uh oh. But the thing is, I do not think our approach was all that bad. Certainly not in the bottom half.

A lot of the time I feel that I was a lazy mother and that I was a fool.

Well, I was that, too, then. I was tired. I worked 10 hours a day at demanding work. When he was a toddler I was writing my dissertation,.

My son is intensely proud of me. I know he is but he does not say it. And most important, I am proud of me. I am not bitter and anger, because I became the person I needed to be, with the life I needed to have. I reflected that for him.

Is it really useful (or correct) to throw out the mother with the bath water? Can we not wait and see how this develops?

 

[Lil]

I will take the liberty of calling these glasses of yours puke colored glasses.

Yep. I like this. I agree. These days puke is pretty much what I see.

To me, your son is a powerful individual. A capable one. Let us see what he makes of this. Like my own son, yours has no meanness. He is not small or petty, that I can see. What he is is lazy and undisciplined.

And THAT is the understatement of the year.

He actually had the audacity to say to me this weekend, "It's not like I had time [to do the community service]."

Excuse me? He had oodles of time! He could have had it done within a week of court. But he waited. Then he got a job and decided to go to job corps. So I got him an extension and the ability to substitute job corps for it. Then he quit his job and didn't go to job corps! Then he had more weeks when he didn't do it. All that time he was living literally 1/4 mile from the church where I had worked out that he could do the community service practically unsupervised and free of charge! He stood up the property chairman 2 times!

Yeahhh...I think he knows now that mama isn't going to play that game.

Is it really useful (or correct) to throw out the mother with the bath water? Can we not wait and see how this develops?

I'm tired is all Copa. Tired of waiting and tired of him lying. I'm 80% sure - maybe 85% - that he's lying to me about his "job". I think he's either quit Boost or been fired. He now hasn't worked in days and days. Last Wednesday - maybe - he worked. Maybe. He said he had to just "call and see if they needed him". Right. He says he's there now "talking to them" and that he'll be working "toward the end of the week because Court's on Wednesday." Right.

I think he's just saying this stuff so he will be able to tell the judge he has a job and I won't call him out on lying or be put in the position of trying to make it look like he's not a loser when he can't hold a job.

But it is what it is.

The thread asked if we could do it over, what would we do differently. I was honest.

 

[Scent of Cedar *]

A lot of the time I feel that I was a lazy mother and that I was a fool.

And alot of the time I feel that I was a helicopter mother ~ and that I was a fool, not to have seen what was coming, or believed what was happening, or guided my children safely into successful adulthoods. I was the freaking mom at home.

How did this happen to us?

I still don't know. But I am sure it is my fault in there somewhere. Because I was helicopter mom with a bullet, I wish I'd been a lazier, friendlier, easier (but way stricter) mom.

Please don't think of yourself as a lazy mom or a fool, Lil.

That hurts my heart.

Cedar

 

[InsaneCdn]

The thread asked if we could do it over, what would we do differently. I was honest

Lil...
Which of those things that you want to do over, would actually make that much of a difference?

I could have written a book on "what I would have done differently". There's a million things that I literally did completely wrong. And a different set that Hubby did wrong. But we weren't the only pieces of the puzzle. And... in spite of what we did wrong, it is amazing how much we actually also did right. Sometimes, we lose that perspective. (sometimes? like, most of the time?)

A different school could have been better - or worse.
A private psychologist might have been better - or worse.
And the list goes on.

Had we gotten the right help, at the right time, for each member of the family, the outcome WOULD have been different. That much I am certain of. But how much of that "getting the right help" was actually within my control? Not much.

And so. Looking back. That is why the ONE thing that I really wish we had done differently, was to live in the country. Not because it would necessarily have been "better" for my really challenging kid - or even for my not-so-challenging kid. But because it would have been better for ME to be on "farm time" - not scheduled down to the minute, not stressed out over every little thing including what the neighbors think because the grass is getting long again. Being in the country would have enabled ME to be a better parent. Having seen now what country time in small doses does for my kids, it would have been good for them too.

 

[Scent of Cedar *]

I never wanted to be like my mother and I look back at those years and that anger was exactly like my mother.

When our children are troubled, we look at the end results of our parenting and condemn ourselves for whatever we did do. What I have learned here on the site is that our children have been raised: with or without religion / with or without two parents in the home / with or without mom at home / with love, with such an intensity of love.

I forgot military school. Which I did not do for my son. But one of the other moms here did. And do you know, she regretted having sent him to military school. And I was just sick because I had not done that good thing that I thought about and did not do.

What I do know is that, together here in this safe place, the parents here can learn to survive what is happening to us and our kids.

I am so sorry for the pain of it, Tired Mom.

Cedar

 

[Scent of Cedar *]

And... in spite of what we did wrong, it is amazing how much we actually also did right.

Well, that's the thing, IC. Intellectually, I get it that I must have done some things right. But in my heart, I see my children suffer and I condemn myself for it.

Maybe, we punish ourselves in these ways in an attempt to bargain our suffering for the kids' lives.

Cedar

 

[Copabanana]

Maybe, we punish ourselves in these ways in an attempt to bargain our suffering for the kids' lives.

I believe this to be the case.

 

[Copabanana]

Sometimes, maybe, it's just holding your boundaries, making demands, waiting for them to grow up.

I so agree with this.

I agree, too, the point of view illustrated by in a daze--who did every single thing that Cedar condemns herself for not having done--with the same result, or a version of it.

I believe that we as parents share a commonality here on the board--over and above our children. Our tendency to hold ourselves responsible, which is a good thing--to a point. Perhaps we hold in common, many of us, an idealized version of what life is, can be. And berate ourselves for not having attained or achieved that illusion.

Does anybody, really? What we see, really, is a fantasy--on TV, ads, even that which certain families seem to be like, is a careful display created to convince even themselves.

We are not responsible for the free choice of our children. Adults respond to drug use and mental illness in all manner of ways Their parents are not responsible for that over which they have no control.

Real life is messy. But it is real. The only lives we will ever have are those we have. I for one am beginning to feel gratitude for my own.

 

[Copabanana]

The one mistake I made, really, is not having provided a spiritual foundation for my child. Ritual, religious community, and understanding of life that comes from faith and belief. But I did not have that, then. I wish I had.

 

[Copabanana]

The thread asked if we could do it over, what would we do differently. I was honest.

Lil.

We could have done it all differently--as did other parents here. With the same result. Would you have done it all over--differently--with the same result, would you have?

What is the point? Your son has an essence that is his alone. Lil. You have enormous kindness and caring in you. Where is it, towards Lil?

All I hear (I mean, read) is self-judgment. Who was it, above, in a daze, yes, who did everything R I G H T. And it was still, wrong. These are human beings, our kids, not recipes.

I really, really believe in the message of P.E. on this website, as I understand it, the over-arching message: It is not your fault. Detach. Live well. Let our kids handle themselves. Forgive yourself.

 

[InsaneCdn]

I really, really believe in the message of P.E. on this website, as I understand it, the over-arching message: It is not your fault.

This part of the message pretty much applies to all the forums... We can't detach from an eight year old, of course. But... be kind to ourselves is vital, whatever age the kid(s).

 

[Lil]

Which of those things that you want to do over, would actually make that much of a difference?

Don't know. Jabber and I have talked about it. Maybe if we had been stricter, he'd have been worse. Maybe if we'd been more lenient, he'd have been worse. I have know way to know.

We could have done it all differently--as did other parents here. With the same result. Would you have done it all over--differently--with the same result, would you have?

Some of it. I wish we'd have done some things with him that we didn't. I wish we'd had more "family" time and always ate at the dinner table, etc.

But when you get right down to it. We did what we did and he turned out the way he turned out. So why wouldn't I try something else - everything else - given the chance? Maybe it would work? You don't know if you don't try and so, if I had a magic spell and I could go back in time, I'd try. Sure, it might be like killing baby Hitler - and history would just arrange itself around the changes so that the world would be just the same. But why not give it a shot?

I'm 99% sure if I had a easy child to go with my Difficult Child. Then I'd know it wasn't me. But he was my only shot at parenting. So maybe I did everything right and maybe I didn't. I have no way to know.

I have to admit to some things I did that I would definitely do again. I'd still divorce his biodad. I'd still marry Jabber. He's a wonderful man and I truly feel he and I were meant to be. But pretty much the rest? Hard to say.

 

[bluebell]

I've played around with not working, putting them in a private school, going to the 'fun church' instead of raising them in a boring Catholic church. I'm not sure though. I've been so depressed lately, I think I just shouldn't have become a mother. My mom died when my son was 7 months old and she was going to quit her job and keep him. Things changed drastically when she became ill soon after his birth. I'm almost 100% positive I would not have had children if she had died before I was pregnant. Sad, but true.

 

[Estherfromjerusalem]

I did not cope with the encopresis, and I consider that was the trigger for all the other difficulties. He is a super-intelligent, super-goodlooking child, charming, but the encopresis simply ruined his life. True, he is mending (has got really far) and is coping with life, but he would have been something completely different without the encopresis. I know that here on the board people consider me a person who knows how to cope with encopresis, but that's only because we went through it and came out the other side still more or less whole, although I am also still suffering from the after-effects of it -- almost PTSD. I found a way of coping when he was about 10 years old, but that was only through trial and error and the damage was already done. If I had my time again, I would have gone immediately to a children's gastro doctor instead of listening to my pediatrician (whom I trusted) who said there was no point in putting him through all the ghastly tests he would have to undergo.

Another thing I would do differently if I had my time all over again, would be to show more physical affection to all my children. In the house I grew up in, I do not remember a single hug from my mother (my father was more able than her to demonstrate physical affection, but not too much), nor a single kiss. Only when I reached my forties and the child-minder who looked after my children when I went to work taught me (!! yes, she taught me) how to hug and kiss my children, did I begin to give my mother a hug and/or a kiss when we got together. Funnily enough, though, we had a good relationship.

My problems fade when compared to those faced by most of you here. My children are all grown up and they all, except for Difficult Child, are married with children of their own, and are functioning really well in society, so I don't have much to complain about.

When the children were small and there were all sorts of problems, my husband was far firmer than I was in coping with them. He used to say, "I will be the brick wall against which the children can bang their heads." And looking back, he was right. He is very strong (for better or for worse) and on the one hand aroused a lot of antagonism with the children, but on the other hand gave them guidance.

I think our problems stem from a slightly different source: My mother, for example, must have been depressed throughout all those years, ever since finding out some time during World War II that her parents had been murdered in Auschwitz. Same with my father's mother, although my father somehow was a more positive optimistic person. People like me are called "second generation" survivors, and we have all sorts of hang-ups. Maybe my mother was the way she was because of the shock of finding out about her parents (I was born shortly after the end of World War II).

OK, end of harangue. I haven't written properly for ages. Hope I haven't bored you all.

Love, Esther

 

[Copabanana]

My mother, for example, must have been depressed throughout all those years, ever since finding out some time during World War II that her parents had been murdered in Auschwitz. Same with my father's mother

Esther, I loved your post. I may have told you my mother's name was Esther. She died a year and a half before I came to the board.

I have spent the one year plus here trying to make sense of why her death so affected me, to the point of being incapacitated.

My maternal grandparents immigrated to the USA from Russia. They were never again to see their parents. My grandmother was 11 when she last saw her mother, or spoke to her. I believe much of the family that remained in the old country was murdered, but the adults never talked about it to us. Imagine that. We were pickled in all that grief that was never named.

Because we could, we achieved, but did not acknowledge the legacy of pain, that we had inherited. When I adopted my son, at close to 40, this was the first really profound relationship I had. The infant I chose had suffered already at 22 months, to the extent that I, the inheritor of so much suppressed pain, identified with him.

My mother, in an antidote to the suffering of her mother thought and lived life as a party. Being beautiful with beautiful stuff was the goal. When she died, I was left holding the bag. Of pain.

People like me are called "second generation" survivors, and we have all sorts of hang-ups.

Where you live makes sense of your experience. You know why you suffered. There is a real cause. Here in America the misery is individual suffering, like a hangup. An individual burden that becomes part of you, like a defect...unrelated to the real and horrible truth, real events that continue to cause untold damage and suffering.

I tell my son, own your story. It is greater and more wonderful than any movie, and novel. Because it is yours. And me? I am not sure where I am. Loved your post, Esther.

 

[BusynMember]

Some of the things our kids went through would still have happened even if we changed things. Some are wired to just not conform to anything. Some get more mature with time and without us doing a thing. I was very lucky that both of my very difficult kids ended up turning things around on their own. I said here that I feel I did motherhood well. I do, as far as being home, the cookies, nurturing, accrpting...thst sort of thing. But there are decisions I made that were counter productive to good parenting. I listed them. So was I a good parent or a parent with good intentions, whose kids felt loved (I'm convinced even Gone boy did) but who made some really bad decisions? I think we all had/ have good intentions. I started the thread just to see what others would do differently to compare it with myself.

I am not really sure how much we influenced the way our kids turned out so far. Is anyone? Heck, all of my kids are SO different. Is it because they have different DNA? None are biologically related and three are adopted (four if Gone boy is included).

I felt like a lazy parent too because unless my kids showed me otherwise, I did not feel discipline for the small things was helpful. I can't remember grounding, spanking, much more than scolding without much force. The first time I had to crack the whip was when Bart became an intolerable teen. Then I had to ramp it up again when Princess used drugs. Except for those emergencies our home was relaxed.

Cedar, I have to smile about military school. I had a friend with a d c teen who tried it and he was tossed out and told they are not a behavioral school.

Cop a and Lil, my first three kids were brought up Lutheran and even went to Lutheran school for four years. My younger two went to Catholic school for two years. My only child who has any strong sense of religion is Gone boy and he uses it to make himself a martyr...and of course he is the only true type of Christian that is a REAL Christian. Lutherans and Catholics don't count!!! No denomination is really Christian in his eyes, although that is not how he was raised or what he learned in church.

Public schools actually were better for my particular kids. None did well in a parochial school. But that is different for each individual child

And religion does h help many. It's my own kids who just don't buy it. I believe it can help. A belief in a higher power sustains me...

Anyway...maybe a thread should start about what we felt we did right. And are still doing right. Because we all did a lot right.