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<blockquote data-quote="susiestar" data-source="post: 660420" data-attributes="member: 1233"><p>I actually do and have had clinical anxiety for years. I understand the need for medications. I didn't mean to say to NOT take medications, or to not work with a doctor. I do apologize, I had to leave and didn't make my entire message as clear as I try to make them. I didn't get control of mine until well after I took several months to figure out the various triggers for my anxiety and what works best for me. I know some people do well with medications, and some don't do well AT ALL on the ones prescribed. It sounds very much like CB has been through almost every type of medication that there is for her anxiety, but that other than those, she hasn't had much help. If she cannot find a good therapist to help her work through things, and I couldn't either, then she needs to stop and figure it out herself.</p><p></p><p>Some people do better with various herbs that are effective but milder than many of the rx medications. I didn't even try until I had a VERY old psychiatrist who was going to retire in 3 years who sent me to an herbalist. NOT the type of herbalist pushing some expensive antianxiety blend of herbs, but one with a ph d in the field who specialized in helping people who didn't respond to medications well. You would likely be surprised at how effective some can be IF you have a little patience and don't expect them to work with the first dose or two. The herbalist worked with my psychiatrist and I took some rx medications and some herbal medications (and I do not mean pot, I mean things that are legal in all 50 states and with our federal govt). They helped. </p><p></p><p>One thing that even some doctors (even psychiatrists) dont' get is that some patients respond badly to SNRI medications, with increased anxiety of the type of new symptoms that CB is describing. Effexor was supposed to help me with anxiety and depression, but when pushed above the barely noticeable initial dose, it spiraled me into astounding, world changing anxiety that had me afraid of everything, literally. I could barely leave my home with-o crying and getting so upset I vomited. My doctor thought if I INCREASED my dose this would stop and even the idea freaked me out. I did some reading and research in documents about what was seen in clinical trials of effexor and what I experienced, and some of the symptoms that CB is experiencing, were clearly seen. The symptoms happened because of the effects on norepinephrine caused by the medications. the patient needed to stop the medications because they did not need their norepinephrine messed with.</p><p></p><p>I had to learn about what the brain is doing that causes anxiety to be able to figure out what would help mine. Until I understood it at the basic level, and figured out how to impact those things with either medications or alternative methods, nothing really helped me. It actually wasn't that hard with the help of some books to explain what my brain was doing and why it might be doing that. Working iwth the doctor and the herbalist at that point allowed me to find medications, herbs, and other things (exercise, meditation, good sleep hygeine, nutrition, etc....) let me get and keep a handle on my anxiety and depression. The one thing I know is that if I hadn't started to do some research into anxiety, I wouldn't have figured MINE out. I cannot tell you how to fix yours, or CB how to fix hers, just like I cannot do brain surgery or fly a plane. All I can do is tell you that if you read enough, and put enough time into it, you probably can figure out what the basis is, and then figure out how to learn to fix it.</p><p></p><p>I do think many docs throw psychiatric medications at patients with-o truly understanding either the patient or the problem or the medication. My docs didn't even know that effexor acted on norepinephrine or that it could INCREASE your anxiety rather than decreasing it. It is one reason I ended up leaving that doctor and going to an old geezer of a doctor who actually took the time to figure out how medications worked before he rx'd them to anyone, and hwo was willing to sit and talk to you rather than to squeeze 10 or more patients into each hour of his day. I needed that and I think more people do too. I doubt it will happen as docs retire or are chased out of business by insurance co's and malpractice ins. But that is just me.</p><p></p><p>I do know that CB needs medications for some things, but clearly these anti-anxiety medications are not working. She may have felt better on benzos, but she got into some legal trouble from them. Others either haven't worked or have caused other serious problems, so maybe she needs to keep the medications that are working and try something new. I think that until patients are empowered and take the time to fully understand their bodies, their symptoms, and their diseases, that they won't ever really feel better for very long. But that may be because my body reacts very strangely to many medications and because I have had to figure out many of my own diagnosis's and then lead my docs to them because they couldn't just take the symptoms that I had and figure it out the way I thought they were supposed to. Docs just don't know everything about medicine, and esp not about every patient's body.</p><p></p><p>But I AM very sorry if my post sounded like I wanted CB to stop her medications and just go get some herbs. As I said, I typed it quickly before I had to leave and I should know better than to do that.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="susiestar, post: 660420, member: 1233"] I actually do and have had clinical anxiety for years. I understand the need for medications. I didn't mean to say to NOT take medications, or to not work with a doctor. I do apologize, I had to leave and didn't make my entire message as clear as I try to make them. I didn't get control of mine until well after I took several months to figure out the various triggers for my anxiety and what works best for me. I know some people do well with medications, and some don't do well AT ALL on the ones prescribed. It sounds very much like CB has been through almost every type of medication that there is for her anxiety, but that other than those, she hasn't had much help. If she cannot find a good therapist to help her work through things, and I couldn't either, then she needs to stop and figure it out herself. Some people do better with various herbs that are effective but milder than many of the rx medications. I didn't even try until I had a VERY old psychiatrist who was going to retire in 3 years who sent me to an herbalist. NOT the type of herbalist pushing some expensive antianxiety blend of herbs, but one with a ph d in the field who specialized in helping people who didn't respond to medications well. You would likely be surprised at how effective some can be IF you have a little patience and don't expect them to work with the first dose or two. The herbalist worked with my psychiatrist and I took some rx medications and some herbal medications (and I do not mean pot, I mean things that are legal in all 50 states and with our federal govt). They helped. One thing that even some doctors (even psychiatrists) dont' get is that some patients respond badly to SNRI medications, with increased anxiety of the type of new symptoms that CB is describing. Effexor was supposed to help me with anxiety and depression, but when pushed above the barely noticeable initial dose, it spiraled me into astounding, world changing anxiety that had me afraid of everything, literally. I could barely leave my home with-o crying and getting so upset I vomited. My doctor thought if I INCREASED my dose this would stop and even the idea freaked me out. I did some reading and research in documents about what was seen in clinical trials of effexor and what I experienced, and some of the symptoms that CB is experiencing, were clearly seen. The symptoms happened because of the effects on norepinephrine caused by the medications. the patient needed to stop the medications because they did not need their norepinephrine messed with. I had to learn about what the brain is doing that causes anxiety to be able to figure out what would help mine. Until I understood it at the basic level, and figured out how to impact those things with either medications or alternative methods, nothing really helped me. It actually wasn't that hard with the help of some books to explain what my brain was doing and why it might be doing that. Working iwth the doctor and the herbalist at that point allowed me to find medications, herbs, and other things (exercise, meditation, good sleep hygeine, nutrition, etc....) let me get and keep a handle on my anxiety and depression. The one thing I know is that if I hadn't started to do some research into anxiety, I wouldn't have figured MINE out. I cannot tell you how to fix yours, or CB how to fix hers, just like I cannot do brain surgery or fly a plane. All I can do is tell you that if you read enough, and put enough time into it, you probably can figure out what the basis is, and then figure out how to learn to fix it. I do think many docs throw psychiatric medications at patients with-o truly understanding either the patient or the problem or the medication. My docs didn't even know that effexor acted on norepinephrine or that it could INCREASE your anxiety rather than decreasing it. It is one reason I ended up leaving that doctor and going to an old geezer of a doctor who actually took the time to figure out how medications worked before he rx'd them to anyone, and hwo was willing to sit and talk to you rather than to squeeze 10 or more patients into each hour of his day. I needed that and I think more people do too. I doubt it will happen as docs retire or are chased out of business by insurance co's and malpractice ins. But that is just me. I do know that CB needs medications for some things, but clearly these anti-anxiety medications are not working. She may have felt better on benzos, but she got into some legal trouble from them. Others either haven't worked or have caused other serious problems, so maybe she needs to keep the medications that are working and try something new. I think that until patients are empowered and take the time to fully understand their bodies, their symptoms, and their diseases, that they won't ever really feel better for very long. But that may be because my body reacts very strangely to many medications and because I have had to figure out many of my own diagnosis's and then lead my docs to them because they couldn't just take the symptoms that I had and figure it out the way I thought they were supposed to. Docs just don't know everything about medicine, and esp not about every patient's body. But I AM very sorry if my post sounded like I wanted CB to stop her medications and just go get some herbs. As I said, I typed it quickly before I had to leave and I should know better than to do that. [/QUOTE]
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