Interesting take on why adult children think it's ok to cut off parents

[Childofmine]

This is a great, very interesting thread.

All of the studies that are out about the millenials, boomers, Gen Zers, etc., help tell the tale you write here. And the parenting I did---I only have two children, which in my humble opinion I believe was not enough---I should have had one more and then I wouldn't have had so much time to focus on them, or who knows, maybe I would have just stayed up even later and worked even harder to give them EVERY EXPERIENCE. Wow, did I ever do that!!!

I was the oldest of four, with one disabled, so I grew up fast. I was super-responsible. Good and bad.

My parents didn't have the time, inclination or money to over-focus on us.

But...like my upbringing, my kids had part-time jobs from age 15+ on. They had responsibilities. They had chores, curfews, limits.

I got tired. Especially of trying to police video games. Ugh. I can't stand them still today.

My ex-husband, their dad, was a super-achieving alcoholic and gone at lot at work. I had to deal with the teenage boys a lot---I worked out of my home since they were 3 and newborn, so I was here a lot.

My oldest was a "typical" teen, but the youngest---difficult child---wow, like trying to push a train up a mountain. He learned to outwait me. I would try and try and try and try to move him forward and then finally I would give up, exhausted. He learned that. I taught him that.

But also...the addiction part, the DNA of addiction, he had it and has it. He comes by it honestly from his paternal grandfather and maternal great-grandmother, his father...plus others.

So, what is DNA and what is parenting and what is culture (technology, media, etc.)?

I don't know. For me, the point is this: Okay I made mistakes, and you have bad DNA and yes the world is a challenging place, but....get over it. Deal with it. Man up, stand up, grow up and take responsibility.

My difficult child is fully capable of doing that.

So....I have mostly let my mistakes in parenting go. I know I made a lot of them...based on my "good intentions" but I've let it go. That's a cop-out, to blame our parents. Recognize it, and then accept it, and then move on.

None of us had perfect parents.

Good thread.

 

[BusynMember]

Cedar...I feel judged, but wrongly judged. Sorry, but I'm not what you think I am, abusive Scapegoater You don't know me, certainly not my heart.

Funny thing, that's what my sister says. "I'm not that way!" Then she does it to others. Anyway, I don't feel useless like they want me to feel; like I used to feel. Honestly, in my 20's I used to tell people, "Oh, my mom was a good mom, I was just a terrible kid." This is no exaggeration. My best friend from that day remembers (I just spoke with her the other day. She is great at putting things into perspective). She remembers how shocked she was when I first told her that one. I really believed it too. The kid was "bad" not the mother.

But I don't buy what they are selling anymore. It's maddening that they think this, but it is false. I know this for a fact in the forefront of my mind. I think it has to do with the fact that if I was like they say, I would not have a husband of almost twenty years who is happy with me and kids who like to be with me and ask to be with me. I can honestly say my kids like to be with me and ask to be with me. Since my being seen as "bad" is basically a family of origin issue, I kind of think it's them. They were brought up to think so and they know me a lot less than those who live with me now. FOO tends to see you in spurts, with long gaps in between. Also, people tend to remember the bad more than the good, at least people in my FOO. They do not see the nice things you do on a day-to-day basis. And they tend to make up negative excuses for the good things you do. Example:

Mother: You only adopted kids to get the MONEY from the STATE.

It doesn't matter that adopting overseas nets you no money and in fact costs you money and that private adoption is the same. We did get a small subsidy for Sonic, and it got larger when his diagnosis changed, but it was hardly a fortune or why we adopted him and we have not dumped him now that he is twenty and we are no longer getting a subsidy. If you are the scapegoat, anything you do that is good will be demeaned. And you will get no respect either. Heck, two people in my family have made obviously racist comments to me about blacks in general even though they are aware I have two beloved, VERY beloved, and very special black and part black children.

Your abusers have no boundaries regarding disrespect. When I called both out on them, one backed off and never mentioned it again. The other one said it was not a racist comment. Of course not. If you say it, it has to be good.

So why do we care when people like this cut us off? Maybe, in my case, it is only because they got the last word? They got to choose? It certainly is not that they are missed. And if given a chance, which is very likely, I wll never reconnect. Enough is enough. I like peace, not drama.

 

[Lil]

I believe that we are less than 100 years away from the end of civilization as we know it today.

That sounds very doom and gloom...if you focus on "the end" as opposed to "as we know it". In 100 years I think civilization will be different, but not over and I'm not sure that it will be bad-different. Look at all the things that have been accomplished in the last century compared to the century before. The 20th century saw huge leaps and advancements over the 19th century.

I suspect the parents who grew up in the late 1800's thought that youth that frequented speak easys during the 1920's were going to end civilization. I'm sure that my WWII era parents felt that way about the Hippies and flower children of the 60's.

For every Difficult Child in my son's age group, I know multiple "good kids", who have jobs, are going to college, getting married, buying their own cars and being typical, independent adults.

 

[Childofmine]

I had coffee with a new friend on Friday. We are just getting to know each other. She is in her 40s. I am 58. One thing she said: Oh I really think our world is just in a terrible place, worse than ever before.

I disagreed. I said, You know, I don't feel that way. I feel like there is much beauty and joy and great stuff out there for us, and inside each us, and life is and can be wonderful.

I think the 24/7 news media cycle (my field of work and study) makes us THINK things are just terrible. Things are what they are and always have been---people striving, not striving, living, changing, not changing...whatever it is.

Yes there are other factors and the world is a terribly fast-moving, tech-filled place, which has brought us great leisure (good and bad) and great disconnections from other people.

But....I still believe.

Anyway, like Al-Anon says: Attitude is everything. And Attitude is my responsibility and no one else's, no matter what they are doing or not doing.

 

[BusynMember]

Agree with you, Lil. Didn't Socrates say something gloom and doom about the next generation? I think the next geenerations will be different, but keep on rolling. I don't think videogames and technology ruined civilization. I even let my kids play videogames and none of them ended up in jail and any problems they had had nothing to do with videogames or technology. My biggest techies are Sonic and Jumper, neither who have ever broken any laws or gotten into trouble. I think it is an excuse because it is unfamiliar to us, but this technology IS the future and will get more advanced. I mean, I'm sure when television first appeared many parents said, "Our world is done! Television!" Probably the same with radio. It's catastrophizing. (I hope I spelled that right).

On the other hand, I do think for a far future we will have less close families, less control over our adult children, and more cut offs of family. Family doesn't mean what it used to when mothers stayed home with their babies to be the biggest influences on them. I did that. It was not vogue to stay home at the time, but my kids would not see daycare. I think it did help. My daughter Princess is doing it and there is a huge difference in both her happiness and intelligence between her and most babies her age. She definitely feels the love (and gets it from so many sources). My other grandson was put into daycare at six weeks. His mother worked there but still. I think it's a bad idea. Daycare is so expensive, why not just save your money and stay home? That I don't get, however, my opinion be danged, it is going to contnue. Parents are often single parents now and have no choice. And this, in my opinion, is very detrimental to the kids. Far more so than Super Mario Brothers. These kids are not being raised by their parents and are spending a lot of time alone at home sometimes as early as elevin years old. To me, that is a huge problem. How to solve it when prices are so high? Short of really cutting back, like my daughter, there is no answer. No, her SO is not rich.

 

[BusynMember]

I think the 24/7 news media cycle (my field of work and study) makes us THINK things are just terrible. Things are what they are and always have been---people striving, not striving, living, changing, not changing...whatever it is.

Excellent point. 24/7 news that is meant to scare people so that they keep tuning in.
I quit watching the news. It depressed me. I can't control the world so I don't know what is going on anymore, although I used to be a news junkie.
The world is WONDERFUL. Just look outside on a sunny day and I dare you to say it's not! Your world is what YOU make it inside of yourself.

 

[InsaneCdn]

The greatest civilizations have rarely lasted more than 400 years, before major upheaval. That doesn't count the time to create, and the period of decline once upheaval starts. Last major upheaval in western civilization was the industrial revolution.

So yes, I believe major, MASSIVE change is coming. Change that will rewrite the world around us very quickly. I might not live to see it. My kids just might.

 

[Lil]

I got tired. Especially of trying to police video games. Ugh. I can't stand them still today.

Uh. Hate video games. But then I was bad at them and found myself having a hissy fit when I couldn't do something. So I quit when I realized I was acting like a child and it just wasn't fun! My son, on the other hand, didn't care if it wasn't fun. He'd throw a fit and scream and cry and say the GAME was cheating! We had more problems over them than anything else when he was younger. We once took them for a month - best month ever once the tantrum ended. Do I think video games cause problems? No. Do I think they expose them? Absolutely.

I think the 24/7 news media cycle (my field of work and study) makes us THINK things are just terrible. Things are what they are and always have been---people striving, not striving, living, changing, not changing...whatever it is.

We had a guest minister at our church address this and I wish I had a copy of his sermon. He asked us all if we thought the world was better or worse than it was 50 years ago. Show of hands was overwhelmingly "worse". Then he explained why that was wrong, using statistics. The number of deaths from various things, the number of charitable things that are done...I so wish I had those at my fingertips. Granted, a lot of the improvements were in 3rd world countries, but the bottom line was, slowly but surely, the world is becoming a better place for everyone.

Daycare is so expensive, why not just save your money and stay home?

Well, because if you are single that's simply not a choice unless you get public assistance or a TON of child support! Around here a decent daycare for a baby or toddler can be as much as $150 to $200/week (lower if you find an in-home sitter). So say $175 - that's $758.00 per month. If you are lower income, minimum wage, you will pay a portion not the whole thing if you apply for assistance, in fact you may not pay at all. If you make $25,000/yr, your take home should still be over double the cost of daycare.

I was single when my son was little and didn't get child support. I started my job at $27,000 a year and paid around $400/mo in daycare (it was cheaper then). I couldn't NOT work.

Frankly, I would have hovered as a stay-at-home mom though. I really didn't have the temperament for it. I was a much better parent after I married Jabber...more even tempered and patient...when I had someone else around to lean on.

 

[Jabberwockey]

Excellent point. 24/7 news that is meant to scare people so that they keep tuning in.
I quit watching the news. It depressed me. I can't control the world so I don't know what is going on anymore, although I used to be a news junkie.

The media mainly reports doom and gloom because that is what people want to see. Why do you think you only see the reports of the occasional bad cop shooting someone instead of the thousands of cops who do there job well?

Im with you Somewhere! It drives Lil NUTS that I don't keep up with current events but the news is depressing. If I wanted to be depressed, I'd volunteer to work a double!

 

[BusynMember]

Uh. Hate video games.

I'm a bit older than you. Our boomer parent' hated rock 'n roll and though Elvis and the Beatles would cause the end of the world. All parents over-react to change. The fact that Elvis wiggled his male part was certainly going to turn us all into sex addicts.

 

[Lil]

LOL - I don't hate video games because I'm some old fogy and think they're bad or because those new-fangled gadgets are going to ruin our youth. I hate them because my kid would have such fits and tantrums over them, but wouldn't give up when it was clear they weren't even any fun! I've played them, quit when I got frustrated and realized I wasn't having fun. I actually had a great time playing once when I used one of Jabber's characters on a game that gave me basically superpowers and I could just plow thru the bad guys. I like the Wii sports games. I think they're just fine...in moderation.

No, I just hate them because they represent every bad thing about my kid. Lazy, sit-on-your-butt, eyes glued to a screen, refusing to do anything, disassociating from the family, getting angry over stuff that is SO unimportant! He was a totally different kid when he wasn't playing them. But I don't blame the games...they're just the unfortunate object I associate with his behavior.

Kind of like how I hated Butterfinger candy bars for years after finding a bug in one. Just an association thing.

Then of course there's Jabber playing World of Warcraft ALL THE TIME! (Yes Dear, it makes me crazy sometimes.) LOL!

 

[Scent of Cedar *]

Cedar...I feel judged, but wrongly judged. Sorry, but I'm not what you think I am, abusive Scapegoater You don't know me, certainly not my heart.

Judged by me, SWOT?

Cedar

 

[BusynMember]

No. NOtice my stuck out tongue. Judged by my ex-FOO

 

[Scent of Cedar *]

:O)

Cedar

 

[BusynMember]

The media mainly reports doom and gloom because that is what people want to see. Why do you think you only see the reports of the occasional bad cop shooting someone instead of the thousands of cops who do there job well?

Im with you Somewhere! It drives Lil NUTS that I don't keep up with current events but the news is depressing. If I wanted to be depressed, I'd volunteer to work a double!

Jabber, I think you've got it!!!! At one time I was so into current events and the news and the world that I chatted daily on a political channel on MIRC. Now? I don't care because there is nothing I can do to change things. I do vote. That's the extent of what I can do. And I have no idea what is going on in the world. I just know that if I checked it out, I would feel sad and frustrated and I really hate what is going on and the direction of my own country so, since I can't control it, I focus on what is within my control such as myself. LOL. I have one FB friend I used to chat with from my MIRC politics days who keeps trying to get me back to the channel and I keep meaning to go for her...but I can't get myself to do it. I would have idea how to jump into the conversation. And there is a lot of contention on the site...liberals, conservatives, liberations all fighting and sure they are right. That isn't part of my life's plan anymore. Honestly, I don't even know who the presidential contenders will be. I just know that I won't like most of them...lol. I used to get angry (not furious, but frustrated) that my husband did not get involved in politics or even vote, but I am glad he doesn't. It's easier to block out the news when neither of us want to see it. "La, la, la, I'm not listening" lol. The only news I'm eager to hear is who the Packers will draft when the draft comes up and we always listen to the football draft so we don't need the news for that

 

[elizabethanne]

I'm with you on that one Somewhere Out There...whether left or right, it is really just two cheeks on the same a**!!!!
Not too much new under the sun, not really.

Jabber, I think you've got it!!!! At one time I was so into current events and the news and the world that I chatted daily on a political channel on MIRC. Now? I don't care because there is nothing I can do to change things. I do vote. That's the extent of what I can do. And I have no idea what is going on in the world. I just know that if I checked it out, I would feel sad and frustrated and I really hate what is going on and the direction of my own country so, since I can't control it, I focus on what is within my control such as myself. LOL. I have one FB friend I used to chat with from my MIRC politics days who keeps trying to get me back to the channel and I keep meaning to go for her...but I can't get myself to do it. I would have idea how to jump into the conversation. And there is a lot of contention on the site...liberals, conservatives, liberations all fighting and sure they are right. That isn't part of my life's plan anymore. Honestly, I don't even know who the presidential contenders will be. I just know that I won't like most of them...lol. I used to get angry (not furious, but frustrated) that my husband did not get involved in politics or even vote, but I am glad he doesn't. It's easier to block out the news when neither of us want to see it. "La, la, la, I'm not listening" lol. The only news I'm eager to hear is who the Packers will draft when the draft comes up and we always listen to the football draft so we don't need the news for that

 

[Lil]

whether left or right, it is really just two cheeks on the same a**!!!!

I am SO stealing that line next time my friends start arguing politics!

 

[elizabethanne]

I am SO stealing that line next time my friends start arguing politics!

Yeah, I ROFLMAO'd too when I first heard it.

 

[Scent of Cedar *]

Yeah, our kid is just lazy and likes his pot. Nothing anywhere near so noble as this.

Not yet, Jabber.

But he is young, and he is learning and changing in unpredictable ways.

Remember when we were young, and knew everything?!?

:O)

Who would have thought any good thing, any applicable insight, could have come from our daughter's time of drug addiction and homelessness? And yet, the things she saw, the difference in the way she was herself seen (former math/science teacher, remember), the knowledge that because she was who she was, she could believe herself capable of changing her circumstances, as opposed to those unable to believe in themselves ~ all these things changed everything she thought she knew in some indescribable and permanent way.

Here is a story my daughter told me about homelessness and that lifestyle. I have told it here, before, I think. So, one night, all the homeless gathered in their usual place to see who was still alive, to get the news, to share whatever booze or other substances any one of them was willing to share. As the night went on, and the booze or whatever the substance of the moment was began taking effect, an old street woman who had no mate watched as my daughter and her current partner began a knock down drag out fight with one another. Then, sure enough, a second couple began beating away at each other. Soon enough, a third couple, same thing. Know what the homeless old woman told my daughter the next morning?

"I need a man, too."

:O)

?

It was so funny, to think that the street people were just...people. People with senses of humor, and irony and lonely awareness.

We all are just people, I guess, after all.

I don't know what my son is concluding about what is real and about what matters. But I do know he will be checking in with me, one of these days.

And all I know about how to prepare for that is to tell him that I know he can do this ~ that he is bright and strong enough to take his life in any direction he chooses, and that he will do exactly that.

I swear Jabber, I am beginning to feel my role in all this is to be a sort of mom Dr. Seuss. You know, where he writes something like: "Your hand's in your pockets. Your feet's in your shoes. You can go any direction you choose."

I do miss my son, though.

That is a hard thing.

Cedar