It is getting worse

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by orcaauntie, Sep 13, 2011.

  1. orcaauntie

    orcaauntie New Member

    Niece has been getting worse. Mom isn't fighting back with her anymore- but she still has a horrible attitude. Well, we've discovered that two weeks ago, she lost her virginity, at 12, to a boy she was dating for 2 days.. then he dumped her 2 days later. The friend was in another room, with a different boy, having sex with him. This is either shortly after, or shortly before, her horrible behavior against my mom began. Our proof shows us that my Niece says she "wasn't thinking" and other indications showing that she knows it was wrong and that her friend (that I've mentioned is definitely contributing to this mess) "made her do it". And we have messages proving that her friend IS indeed trying to push her to having sex with boys. The items in quotes are things my Niece said in messages.
    This same friend was using my parent's home phone to prank call boys and was talking to them about their anatomy and sex- Mom has the conversations recorded. My niece has said in messages to other people that this friend is "like, trying to sell my body" and is "like, pimping me out". This is not in her character, and this friend is changing her character.. obviously my niece is not strong enough to tell her that she doesn't want to do that stuff.

    Friend's parents are useless. They are oblivious to their daughter's behavior. They have another daughter that is 15 or 16 and is even worse than this one. They hate my Mom because she is contstantly having to call niece's friend's parents to see if she is there or what-not because she wants to know where she is. They don't answer the phone. So, mom, after calling 25 times, sent the police up their house. Well, friend's mom chewed out my mom in front of the cops, swearing up and down. Friend's Mom said that niece and said friend can't hang out anymore because she doesn't want to deal with my Mom's "BS". Oh and apparently she will have my MOM arrested if my niece hangs out with her daughter. Um ok, that is not even possible. And Hello- her daughter is the problem, not my niece.

    Yesterday niece didn't come home after school for her docs appointments. This one was an emergency visit with her counselor because she said she never gets to talk to her since the visits usually her her siblings- even though the counselor gives them an opportunity to state whether they want to talk alone or not. Mom found her finally and niece was about to get into the car, the door was open, then her friend told her "tell her you're walking home!" so my niece did just that, and turned around, walked away. She didn't come home until just after 10pm (on a school night). My mom sent her to her room without dinner because she wasn't home for the meal when she is supposed to be. Well, today after school she ran off and my Mom currently has no idea where she is.

    Do you have any suggestions? Mom is trying to not fight with her, give her some freedom (reasonable) and she is just getting worse. Her friend is apparently a ring leader and my Niece is following her every word. Some of you have said before that keeping her away from this friend is a futile effort. But, letting her be around her is going to basically, ruin my niece's life. We've been through it once with my niece's Mom and I think we're going to go through it again. Niece's Mom was in juvenile detention centers, had chins petitions, was pregnant at 15 and addicted to drugs shortly into her 20s. I am so sick to my stomach.

    Mom has an appointment with a behavioral psychologist and I guess they are going to work on getting her a new evaluation. Hopefully she can get one.
    Oh, and I got a nice phone call from my sister (Niece's Mom) yesterday questioning me about the plan to have niece move in with me. I told her there IS no plan. I haven't spoken to my sister in well over a year, and we do not communicate otherwise. She heard this from niece because Mom has at one point in response to my Niece saying she didn't want to live with her anymore, mentioned it to her as being the only other place she has to go if she doesn't want to live with my Mom. So she goes and tells her Mom that my Mom is going to send her to live with me. Really great when they are involved in the court system, eh?

    Sorry if some of this sounds harsh, but I am so angry right now.
  2. Texasfilly79

    Texasfilly79 Guest

    First - Call the police - Depending on the age, she can be either A) classified as a runaway or B) as a missing child 2nd - Once she is found, have your mom give the police the messages from your niece showing the so called friend of pushing her into sex.

    2nd - Since giving freedom is apparently make your niece worse, you mom needs to put the restrictions down pronto. I know with my difficult child, when she first came to live with us, she was very similar in actions (doing what she wanted, verbally abusive towards me, etc) until we put restrictions down and she realized that We as parents, controlled her life, not her.
  3. orcaauntie

    orcaauntie New Member

    I think no matter what Mom does, niece will find a way around it. She's proven so. Epecially now with running off. She took away freedoms, niece freaked. She gave her a little by letting her hang with friends, she's going hog-wild. Double edged sword. I guess she just needs to ground her to the house for a long period of time and call the cops every time she runs off.
    But the problem is, she's going and telling her Bio-Mom that she's not happy living there, that my Mom's a B****, etc. This makes things worse for my mom, who has full custody of them- because my sister can try and use this and anything else- including the cop involvement, against her in getting the kids back.
  4. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    On top of that... she's 12 - who was the guy? Its not likely a 14 year old - and in most places, unless there's under 2 years between the ages, this would be considered statutory rape. The sooner this gets flagged and worked on, the better - need to get a reputation out there that it doesn't pay to mess with this one. It doesn't matter if she "wanted it" or not.
  5. DDD

    DDD Well-Known Member

    I wish I had "an answer" for you. This is a very complicated situation and when I was in my mid thirties I had a similar situation with a very undesirable friend who attached to my daughter (now identified in my posts as GFGmom). I used all my energy and influence to keep that girl away from my daughter. I failed. One day at work I got a phone call from the police department and my difficult child and that girl were arrested. Turns out the girl told my daughter that boy X had invited them to his house after school. He was not there so the girl opened the door and in they went. With no knowledge on my daughter's part "while they waited for boy X to come home" the other girl stole something. Yep,
    the police filed a report that included my daughter although they told me and my FBI brother in law that charges would not be filed against my daughter. Sigh!

    Coincidentally my new husband asked me to relocate with him so he could open his own business. Truthfully I only agreed to leave my hometown because I feared the influence of that girl. Sounds weird but it is true. The situation is very similar to what your Mom is facing. I truly believe that you and your husband would greatly suffer if you took on the burden of your neice. on the other hand, I do not see a way that your Mom can alter the course she is on no matter how hard she tries. Some combinations are lethal and a "bad" friend can chart the course of another's life.

    I'm keeping your family in my thoughts and hoping something miraculous happens. Usually I try to be upbeat on the Board but the combination of the family history and the evil friend leaves me with no positive suggestions. DDD
  6. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    I'm not sure your mother can do anything. Sex at twelve is pretty awful. This child clearly will do what she wants to do. Would she even listen to a grounding?

    Has Mom considered out-of-home placement? This can't be good for Mom's health...
  7. orcaauntie

    orcaauntie New Member

    In the state they live in- the age of 16 is the age of consent.. that is all I know. I just told Mom what you've stated though and she is going to look into it. Niece was still 12 when it happened and the guy is 15. We have proof of the exact date it happened too. Thanks for the tip!

    Apparently today the friend told my niece that (her mom told her) the cop went into her house and trashed it looking for my niece, and that her Mom told her if she hung out with my Niece that she would have my Mom arrested (obviously this isn't possible, the woman obviously has a screw loose). She said they lifted up furniture, and made a huge ruckus and mess. This is not true as my Mom was there, and of course the cop was there, but my niece believes her friend of course. Mom tried to tell her that her friend is lying to her but Niece is clearly too upset with Mom and said she is "ruining her life, made her waste 3 years of her life because now she can't hang out with best friend". This I guess, is why my niece took off this afternoon and said she would "be back in a few hours". My mom wants to see if she keeps her word instead of calling the cops tonight.. unless she doesn't come home of course.

    Mom was also told by the police that if she has proof of the friend pushing niece to have sex, then show them, which my mom is going to do. And when she does, the cat is out of the bag that my Mom has had access to my niece's Facebook after my Niece has changed her password and deleted my Mom as a friend. Now we know why- she is trying to hide this from my Mom!!
    Apparently the friend's family is involved with DCYF as the cop told Mom this. I don't know what that reference meant in regards to the friend pushing niece to do things, but the cop said to show them if Mom has proof. It sucks if this makes things worse for them but this kid cannot go around pressuring other kids to do inappropriate things. And her mom is acting oblivious to this kid's behavior.
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2011
  8. orcaauntie

    orcaauntie New Member

    I truly wish them all relocating were a possibility. I just don't know what to do. I know that her moving here could be bad for my hubby and I, but it may be our only option to get her away from these situations. However, as mentioned before, I have no idea if this is even a viable option given the court involvement and custody situation. I can see it now- if she did move here, my Sister would somehow use it against my Mom and regain custody. We know this is not good and cannot happen.
    And I appreciate your honesty. I know this is a terrible situation and I am honestly at my own wits end and I am 1600 miles away from the mess. Hubby and I are going on a cruise vacation beginning this weekend and I am not even sure I will be able to enjoy it.
  9. JJJ

    JJJ Active Member

    I would ask the cops for help in finding a counselor that specializes in sexually abused teens. Your niece was sexually violated, that could explain the behavior 100%. If she feels dirty or to blame for what happened, she may be trying to live down to her expectations. At 12 or even 13, she does not have the legal capacity to consent to sex.

    Bring the cops the proof and ask for victim services for her.
  10. orcaauntie

    orcaauntie New Member

    I highly doubt she was violated. She knew what she was doing, but we are sure she was pressured by her friend over time, and on that night. My Mom plans to bring the info she has to the police and see what they can do I guess.
    To top it off, she is still not home and it is 9:24p their time. And once again, I guess my Niece was about to come home until this "friend" told her to go with her.. and she did it. I can't believe she is listening to this girl, it's like she's her dictator. She is about to do the right thing then this girl tells her the opposite and she DOES IT. I am absolutely sick to my stomach!
  11. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    Orca -

    There is no way, at 12, that she has any concept of what she is "wanting" or "agreeing to".
    Therefore... it is automatically treated as rape. Its not possible to consent... she doesn't have the capacity to form consent. She was violated in every sense of the word.

    And yes - this alone would be enough to trigger the escalation in behaviors. She's not mature enough to handle the emotions or the hormones that go with this decision.

    Its not just about going to the police to see what they can do - she needs sexual abuse intervention NOW.
  12. Liahona

    Liahona Guest

    Has your Mom talked to a lawyer about niece moving in with you?
  13. orcaauntie

    orcaauntie New Member

    Not to my knowledge. I honestly don't know if she would have to. As far as I know Mom has full custody and my sister was proven unfit. Whatever that means. But really, I don't know. Such a horrible situation.
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2011
  14. orcaauntie

    orcaauntie New Member

    Niece popped back into the house around 930pm. An hour after curfew. I asked her why, and she simply says "because, it's only 930". Ugh. I then proceeded to ask her if "something" is going on that she wants to talk about and to not be afraid to talk to someone if something IS going on or bothering her. She doesn't know we know what she did. Told her, don't be afraid to talk to my Mom, Me, counselor...anyone. She didn't say much about what I was saying but maybe she still heard me.

    Mom decided to contact the town's juvenile officer this AM and he was kind of a jerk. He said it's not his job to make kids listen to their parents. All Mom wanted him to do was put a bit of a "scare" into her.. take a little time out of his life and talk to her. Last year my niece ran off and Mom had the cops go get her and the cops had a little talk with her and that scared her straight because she realized that she would not be able to go back and live with her Mom.. so she'd go to placement if she didn't want to stay at my Mom's.
    But the juvenile officer said he will contact the court diversion program person to see if niece could get into that. I guess her friend just went through it- but it obviously didn't do much for her- possibly because her parents don't pay much attention or enforce rules. Maybe since my Mom pays attention and has rules, it will help, maybe it won't. There is a meeting set up on Friday for Mom and Niece to meet with the court diversion person. Supposedly it's an "intervention" that teaches them to obey rules and respect parents.. Hmm. We'll see. The initial meeting it a "Facebook intervention". They restrict their access and change their password. Then they have to "earn" it back. This should be interesting and I am very weary since it seems to have done nothing for Niece's friend.

    No idea what's going to happen but it seems the odds are against us- until she spirals out of control and the juvenile officer CAN do something? Who knows. The system is very messed up. Instead of trying to stop bad stuff before it starts or gets worse, they only do something when someone gets hurt, commits a crime, kills someone, etc.
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2011
  15. Marguerite

    Marguerite Active Member

    As for the concern about Niece finding out that your mother has been looking at her FB page if she shows the cops - get the cops on side to let Niece think that cops have powers to access FB and bypass securities if they believe a crime is being committed. Cops trawl the net all the time trying to find pedophiles, let her think this was picked up that way.

  16. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Sadly, there are a lot of kids who have sex at twelve and even eleven. We live in a fairly small town and daughter spent one year going to the "big city" school (maybe there are 2000 kids there max, but to us it's a big city school). She told me stories that made me feel ill. Not only was their sex in the middle school...there was a lot of it, depending on who you hung out with. My daughter wanted to go back to our small, safe school after one year. Since we have School Choice here, we were able to do that, thankfully.

    I don't think that it is the friend's fault that Niece had sex. I see it another way. I had one c hild who was very easily influenced by her peers and she got into drugs early because of that. In retrospect, I see that as a problem SHE had...a problem with being able to say "no." The problem followed her around for many, many years. Now I have another daughter who is fifteen that can NOT be forced into doing ANYTHING. I worry far less about her.

    Niece has to learn not to give into peer pressure or there will be more trouble down the road. Even if this friend goes away, she is choosing to hang around with "high risk" kids, like my daughter did. There ARE kids around who don't get into trouble, but she isn't friends with them. I don't know what you and Mom could do...maybe a better therapist would help. I certainly couldn't stop Daughter from her destructive behavior and friends until she decided to change her life...(((Hugs))). been there done that
  17. orcaauntie

    orcaauntie New Member

    You've described the difference between my sister and I perfectly. I never followed my friend's mistakes. Well, I can't say that because yes, I did do some things that I wasn't supposed to but I didn't get drunk, smoke, do drugs, sneak out, party, have sex, etc. When my "friends" started doing that- I found new ones. Same thing with my Mom when she was growing up. She found new friends because her old "friends" were engaging in things she didn't agree with. I guess my sister got a different set of genes. My sister- Niece's Mom of course- had so many issues in her teen years I wouldn't know where to begin. Well I can say (I think I've said it before on here), it involved sex (beginning at 12), alcohol, partying, sneaking out, physical and verbal abuse against my parents, etc. She blames THEM for her problems, just as she is blaming THEM for my niece's problems now. Just the other day she called me to "confirm" something and she blamed my parents for my niece's attitude and disobedience. She actually said she doesn't want her in that environment. It's not the environment! There are rules. My parents are trying to enforce rules. Just because the kid can't take it upon herself to obey a rule doesn't make it a "bad" environment. But my sister apparently "knows" that my niece is "exactly" like her. Maybe so, and if so, we're in for an exhausting, emotionally draining ride. The difference between my sister and my niece is that my mom has no plan of "giving in" like she did with my sister. And my niece is in counseling and medication. I really think she needs a bi-polar medication.. this could really be THE KEY to stopping (at least reducing) the self destructive behaviors if she IS anything like her Biomom. Sorry for the semi-rant!

    You are completely right. She IS choosing high risk kids and obviously has an issue saying "no" (except to my Mom of course!). The ones that aren't "high risk", she calls "preppy", or "gay". We've seen in her messages where she's told a boy she doesn't want "F***-Buddies, but wants a relationship. Then she is making plans to meet him in the woods... but then she got her period (thank heavens!!!) Who knows if she was really planning to meet him or if she was "just saying things". As far as we know, she didn't get her period until Monday and it was Sunday that she told the kid she got it.. so maybe she used it as an excuse. Lets just hope this is the case.. for my sanity.

    If this court diversion and (hopefully) medication change/addition doesn't work, my Mom and step-dad are telling me that they will put her in placement because they cannot go through all of this again, they did it once with my sister and if nothing works for my niece- they just can't do it. Then I wonder if they would put her back in her Mom's custody if this was to happen. Mom thinks not because Sister was "proven unfit" and has had to jump through hoops to even try and get unsupervised visits (which were denied!).. but I just worry what would happen if my parents decide one day that they can't handle it anymore. The kid has already been through heck and taken from her Biomom's custody.

    If only we could know exactly why nothing my parents did with my sister when she was going through all of this worked- then we could know what TO DO and NOT to do with my Niece. This is why I truly think the medication change/addition is SO important because if it bipolar like it turned out to be with her Mom.. Niece's life could be drastically different if she receives medication beginning NOW versus at 19 when they can finally diagnose her. This is why I say my Niece's life depends on them trying this medication!
    Wow.. sorry, this is like a book.
    ****Thanks for the hugs.. I really need it!**** (sending some Mom's way too!)
  18. JJJ

    JJJ Active Member

    What did the police say about the SEXUAL ASSAULT that your niece suffered???
  19. AnnieO

    AnnieO Shooting from the Hip

    OK, maybe this is going to sound a bit harsh, but keep in mind that I have a daughter (step actually) who was sexually assaulted by an adult at ages 11-13.

    Your niece's friend did not "make" your niece do anything.

    Yes, she could have set up the situation; but niece could have said no.

    HOWEVER. The 15-y/o boy COULD have raped her. From what you've said, it doesn't sound like it. STILL, he took advantage of a CHILD.

    Your niece is culpable, but - at age 12 - she canNOT make adult choices like that. Not legally. Not with that maturity level. NOT at ALL.

    Simply put - your mom MUST crack down. There are inexpensive door/window alarms at Wal-mart, Lowe's, Home Depot. If she's up for diversion with the court? Don't expect it to work... (Hope, don't expect.)

    As part of diversion - she does something like vanish again? Cops need to be called. Not the juvenile officer, the regular PD. Document. Petition the court for CHINS (Child in need of services). She keeps the runaway act up, eventually they will do something. It will probably be a slap on the wrist; but she will be in the system (should be, already, with the Diversion). If she has a probation officer? Talk to them. (Better actually to have your mom do it, since she has legal custody - you don't really have any rights, any more than I do to my stepkids.)

    I'm sorry... I don't like to see anyone having problems like we did with O - but she is headed down a dangerous path, and we were too lenient and inconsistent... Due to fear of her mother regaining custody.

    by the way - once a parent is determined to be unfit - getting custody back is highly unlikely for years. Unless everyone concerned just "gives up".

    And, lastly - :hugs:
  20. orcaauntie

    orcaauntie New Member

    Mom said she didn't get a chance to tell them about that yet. I guess the cop was a jerk to her. She needs to call back tomorrow and talk to someone new.. or with the same one, but about the different situation. I don't know if maybe she is afraid to tell the cops about it- maybe she is worried what Niece may do because of it? I have no idea.