It was UGLY...

[rejectedmom]

I am not open to an EBD setting to warehouse him..

I was not suggesting that. I hate when they just take these kids and put them in a corner and forget about them. I just ment that if it was a decent setting where he would continue to be helped and would learn new things etc it might be worth considering.

I asked what the licensure and certification of the teachers were and they tried to side step it so I need to find out if they have had a few autism classes or if they are truly autism trained. I have been duped before and I dont want it to ever happen again.

When they had suggested the alternative school for my son my initial reaction was "no Way!" but I went and observed and also interviewed many of the instructors. They were all PhDs. I spent an entire day at the facility before I made my decision.

If he did homebound he would not be being taught by me... I would bring him to the teacher or she could come to our home. He would still go to school related services..

That is good and much better than what was offered to me ten years ago. Home schooled kids could not participate in any school activities and they would not assign a teacher to him because thay had offered the alternative school. But would you have to be there the entire time or would you have some alone time?

I am not stressed by HIM, I am stressed by these people. I am used to him, we have moments I want to strangle him as most parents do...but I have never, not even one day felt like I didn't want to do it anymore.

I understand that and was not implying that you were tired of him, only that it is imortant to have time to refresh and renew yourself on a regular basis. All soldiers need R&R to function at their very best.

 

[buddy]

Sorry, I was not saying you were suggesting that... I was just saying what I was thinking about their comments at the meeting, how I feel about the whole situation. My mind is kind of just venting thoughts, and I truly appreciated what you said. I have no problem leaving him with the teachers. I also still have my Integrated Listening Systems (ILS) workers and can opt to add days.

I am going to do the same things..... I will stay and observe the entire day. His psychiatric is coming at one point too and the lawyer is coming at another time. They said this is a "new" program born out of their old one which is for lower functioning kids. (meaning non verbal, I hate the low functioning term) It is still IN the EBD school and they can say they isolate them as much as they want, but there are bussing, hallway, lunch etc. times. As of last summer they told me I would never be looking there because it is not the right place for Q so that is why I am suspicious that they now dont want him one place, have no where better so are suddenly saying this NOW is a good choice for a kid like him. I am not that easy to fool anymore..... I will go see though and if it IS a good option i will thank God in Heaven.

He is super vulnerable to following any other child's lead. It is the only way he connects to people in fact, he does what they want or say or do.

I probably have a bigger issue because I have already been down this road several times and my trust in them when I observed and enrolled my kid was too great. I let my son get abused because I was new to the fight. I dont blame myself but I do take responsibility for knowing better now. If he had an emotional disturbance driving this or was willfully being naughty, I would say PLEASE put him in an EBD setting. But in the four times he has been mixed in with EBD kids, we have come out with bigger problems than we went in with. So, if putting the energy into him for the next 4.5 years means a lifetime of better options, I am totally willing to do that.

 

[busywend]

This is just such an awful situation. I hate that schools make us fight for our children. If should be a team effort.

HUGS!

 

[rejectedmom]

A "new program" Hmmmmmmm Concidering what you have been told in the past I too would be suspicious. Observing the program in action is key. Too often things look wonderful on paper but in reality are not. Is there anyway you can go unannounced so they cannot drag out ther "dog and pony show" for your benifit?

 

[TeDo]

Where's that darn <Like> button?? I LOVE the idea of an unannounced "I was in the area so decided to stop and see what this program is all about" type visit.

 

[InsaneCdn]

Where's that darn <Like> button?? I LOVE the idea of an unannounced "I was in the area so decided to stop and see what this program is all about" type visit.

<LIKE> <LIKE> <LIKE>

Looks like the votes are piling up on this one, Buddy...!

 

[Steely]

Buddy what does EBD stand for? Is that the same as Alternative School? Are you in a big city or a small one? In Dallas the Alt school was FULL of juvenile delinquents, gangs, etc. I refused to let Matt go there. Perhaps it would have been easier than the route I took - but hey - he is 21 and not a drug addict or ever been arrested - so I think that says something.

What I didn't know at the time in all of this is that IF the school cannot properly service my child - AND - his psyche determined that Alt School would not either - than by law they had to provide homebound services. Sounds like you know that - so that is great. I believe you can also get them to pay for a private school too, if the SD deems they cannot school him. Had Matt been able to take his electives at the school, and have a teacher come to the home to do the rest - it would have been amazing.

Instead we went the route I have already mentioned -- and really I would do it over again. He loved going to the Community College and taking the classes there - and then we had social groups we joined, etc. After a couple of years our whole world fell apart - and all of that came to a screeching halt - but that is a completely other story.

 

[TeDo]

Steely, EBD means they have an emotional behavior disorder. In Q's case, it is developmental and neurological. MOST (I mean close to 100%) kids with developmental and/or medical disorders causing the behavior are handled as "behavior problems" and are treated with a heavy hand, reward/punishment charts, etc. to stop the behaviors.

 

[Steely]

Right...so there is an actual public school called an EBD school? Which would be different from an alternative school? Or I am just super lost here. Sorry

 

[mazdamama]

Buddy and Q,,,I am so very sorry you are going through this. I read the beginning two pages and then the last one here because I could not handle what I was reading. Have you ever contacted the governor's office in your state and advised them you wanted to speak to the director of education? I have been very busy the past few days preparing for David's IEP meeting so have not been on here and actually was going to brag about it...maybe I still will because not all areas are the same.

 

[TeDo]

Steely, it is considered an alternative school but for kids with SEVERE behavior problems. With autistic kids it is the WORST place to have them because they pick up and copy the behaviors they see. Then they get punished for copying them. NOT a good place to put a kid with Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD). That is actually what they were originally pushing for me to do with difficult child 1. I wanted to make things better, not worse, which this type of school would cause. You are NOT super lost....just different names and in MN, different set-ups.

 

[buddy]

I"m back, went to volunteer in the school library, then took Q to his therapy session and then we went to eat together.

OK, yes it is an entire special education school for our district that goes from elementary through highschool. It is an EBD school and they are saying they added this program to be a school within a school... but still the staff there is EBD. They say that the school is full of neurobiological behavior disorders, well that is what they told me with the program that Q was abused in and then the classes that our home district at the time modeled after that class so we moved.

So, this class is called a "students with unique needs 2" class.... SUN2 SUN1 is a class for low verbal, behavior challenged mostly Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) kids. SUN 2 is supposed to be a mixture of cogntive delay, Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD), ebd, Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI), Fetal Alcohol Syndrome (FAS), blah blah blah.... They say they have some Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) training whatever the heck that means.

So, I get an email from the sp ed coordinator after jsut telling me yesterday (along with the principal from hell and all of the admin and teachers there saying that I should spend an entire day there), that I can have a tour from 12:30 to 1:30 on Thursday. Are you freaking kidding me??? I can just see it now... they ahve finished lunch and are sitting all nice and in their rooms...

I am being taken around to see the nice gym, cafeteria, told how great the kids do and how they never use any restraints unless necessary and all teh same old bs.

I will then get a couple of minutes in the class.


I told them hell no. They said the school has policies like that due to the nature of the challenges. I said it would never be safe for me as a parent to place my child in a program that wont allow the risk of a parent seeing how they handle discipline and transitions. They said I have to arrange all visits one day before the visit at least. That I can come back for other short visits. Now this school is at the end of our LARGE district. (yes steely, I am in a huge metro area and we have 20 elementary schools 6 middle schools and 6 high schools, also three special needs schools... two are transition programs and the other one is this school... it is two cities away.)

My law advocate called and said she was going to lodge a complaint against the principal on her own, not even from me, but because she thought he was so out of line. She said the superintendent called the dir of sp ed and they both said to apologize to me and that they will be calling the principal in for a meeting. The sp ed director said that she was told by the sp ed coordinator that she has been working with the principal this whole time trying to get him to be less confrontational since we had a good working relationship and if he had once said that he was concerned and needed help in what to do because of abc concerns..but he just swooped in and turned the team into us against you.

I saw the behavior specialist that comes to our school and runs the bip and I told her next time we have an IEP one of them must show up even if they are double booked. That this principal thinks I wrote the plan myself, placed Q in this setting myself etc.. he is really rude about it all. I told her one of you guys needs to be assertive and stand up and tell the truth about all of this. I am sick of it.

I sent an email to the sp ed coordinator saying that if this school is unwilling to risk a parent seeing their discipline techniques then dont hold your breath waiting for me to even consider this school for a second.


Q told me.he would rather die than go through this all. I said to talk to K his therapist about it. Well by the time he got there he was over it and had an amazing session with her. He discovered cray pas (sp?)and loved coloring and rubbing his hands in it and he smoothed it all out. He asked her if he could color while they talked and she was fine with that. He told me before we got there he had to see her because she calms him down and makes him feel better. She worked on relaxation with him and he told her he would do it but wanted it to be fast. she tried twice and he said ok can this be the last time because I told you I am not liking it. She said he was so great about using his words...he usually is, may not be the nicest words but if you listen to them he is working it out and letting you know what will help. She had some ideas for working with him too that I liked and have been using.

Like instead of good job etc. which ticks him off... just narrating a few things each day... while he is sitting playing... cool, you are playing uno online. now adding when he is getting out of the car nicely..AS he is doing it... giving a direction so he is complying accidentally, and it works! so funny he is not able to refuse because it is nearly done anyway. I do it little bit by little bit because he would catch on. He has said thanks and ok because he has no choice really... kind of funny.

 

[InsaneCdn]

Buddy...After all you've been through this week (and its only Tuesday)...There are some positives...1) Your advocate is... incredible. In the medium term, she will get the momentum going in the correct direction.2) The sp. ed. dir & coordinator... are starting to find their voice. A bit late, but at least they are a voice from within the system3) the new therapist... WOW.Totally agree with your take on the sp ed school... We have one here (really, for such a dinosaur of a system, they handle a wide range of extreme needs, very well)... kids with tons of "behavior issues" because of OTHER issues... some classrooms are more than 1:1 (i.e. every kid has an aide, plus the teacher, plus sometimes another resource for special situations).... and parents are partners, welcome to observe on 5 minutes notice (if there are kids in that class that can't handle transitioning to visitors, then that class has a one-way glass... so parents can still observe). The "prearranged visits only" is not going to happen.... as in, you're not going there.One step at a time, one day at a time... but it helps when there's something positive to the day!

 

[TeDo]

I WANT that darn <Like> button!!!! I DITTO what Insane said. LOVE the advocate....LOVE the therapist.....LOVE that you're standing up against the BS about the school visit. As a parent of a child with very specific special needs, I wouldn't send MY *dog* to a place that seems to have something to hide. You need to know everything there is to know about their operation to determine if Q will even be able to handle the place, staff, procedures, schedules, etc, etc, etc. YOU GO GIRL!!!!!

 

[susiestar]

(((((hugs))))) I have been away dealing with some health stuff, but I am SO SORRY that they are such complete and total nincompoop meanies. There is NO excuse for their behavior. Sadly, this SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO reminds me of the way our middle school used to be. I was ALWAYS told that ANY school/care provider/activity that won't allow a parent to observe with NO notice is a HUGE abuse risk - abuse of ALL kinds.

I wish I could just smack that principal until he got some sense knocked in to him, but sadly that would probably take longer than there is time left in my life. And I plan to live a LONG time.

File those complaints. Sue the heck out of them and then force them to hire who YOU want to work with Q. While I hope the sp ed superintendent or whatever actually accomplishes something, this principal won't back down easily. in my humble opinion if he treats Q like this, what is he doing to other kids? Cause how you treat the most disabled mostly shows your true nature. Sort of like those who kick puppies and drown kittens in sacks are generally pretty hideous human beings. I really, really, really hope that someday this principal gets alzheimers and is treated the way he has treated Q and other students like him. I know that fear is one of the things that makes ME be nice to most people. Yeah, kinda twisted, but oh well.

There is NO WAY this EBD program is appropriate. These people's arrogance is only surpassed by their Idiot Quotient, which is off the charts. in my opinion they ALL need firing.

 

[TeDo]

<Like> <Like> <Like> You have such a colorful way with words Susie but you are soooooooo right!!

 

[buddy]

Yes, dont we all want suzie to come and beat the koi out of the idiots in our lives??? I just love all of you....

Every single one of you.... just the best ever.

 

[rejectedmom]

Shaking my head here Buddy. Are they freaking kidding???? You are to spend one hour observing and then feel comfortable about going ahead with the placement????? This is beyond ridiculos. I once had a principal threaten me when I asked to observe a classroom. She told me that I was not welcome and that if I showed up the police would be called. When I asked how she justified that statement when they had an open door policy she hung up on me. Fortunately I had my husband on the other line to witness this. There was history between me and this principal only in that she wanted me to medicate my son and I wanted my son's placement changed first and then would consider medication if a closed concept classroom didn't work. The closed concept teacher was more than willing to take my son and it was she that had approached me about it. Unfortunately the first year instructor my son was assigned to balked and took it as a personal insult to her teaching abilities and her ego. It was the tenth week of school and my son had been sent to disipline every day but one. I had problems with that since he had never experienced that in the past. I observed the classroom he was in and it was chaotic at best. Not the place for an early ID'd Learning Disability (LD) kid with ADHD who had been getting services since age 16 month even if on medications. His english and reading teachers had, on their own, already transferred him to the closed room teacher who had requested (also on her own) to have him for all subjects. But she was met with resistance and I was contacted. I had called and talked with the principal about the diciplanary action taken everyday for ten weeks and her reply was "you see it as ten weeks I see it as ONLY ten weeks." To which I replied that if it was her son being diciplined everyday for ten weeks she would not be taking that stance. In all my dealing with this principal and the teachers I had always been polite and professional and involved. The principal's response to call police and have me hauled away in handcuffs if I steped foot on the school grounds was entirely uncalled for and totally over the top. After I was hung up on, I very calmly told my husband that this woman had no idea who she had just hung up on and immediately made a call to the School board. I was assigned a mediator who was a retired spEd teacher. Shortly there after we had a meeting to address our issues. I walked in and sat down and was joined by SP ed mediator Speach language all aligned with me and sat on my side of table. I placed my son's very cute 8x10 picture in front of me and began the meeting with " Whatever you think about me as a person is not relevant here. This meeting is about this child who's picture is before you. I ask that you put any anamosity you might harbor aside and his best intrest first and formost" I left the picture there the entire meeting and the principal and Classroom teacher had all wind knocked out of their sails as a result. After the meetting the mediator said that that was the first time she had ever seen a parent do that but she would be recommending it to all that she represented from that point on. The principal came under alot of scrutiny as a result of the mediator getting involved and an investigation was launched into her practices. She didn't come out of that unscathed. She was temporarily retired to office work in the school board building and sent to classes for additional training. She got another school a few years later and I am told was a good principal there. I am saying that you should file a legitimate complaint anywhere and everywhere it is appropriate it can have good results.

 

[buddy]

Wow RM a true warrior story. It is so unbelievable that people would ever take on a perspective like that woman right? I only worked one place where we had to have a parent escorted out... well actually we did full lock down procedures when she came. Had to close all doors and school outdoor doors were closed but I HEARD her rants and she was scary. To block a parent from observing, especially with an open door policy... HUGE RED FLAG and you knew it and fought it....thank heaven for your son's sake.

I always WELCOMED people in my classes, sessions and when I owned a daycare I told people to call whenever they missed their kids, to stop in to see their kids (who wouldn't want more hands??) and if they wanted to come and nurse their babies that was great too. IF we had the technology at the time I would have welcomed nanny cams that went to internet. If you are doing the right thing, no reason to hide. I understand fully that continual disruptions by people who just want to observe can be disruptive to the KIDS. I would think one day in their room would be better than my coming over and over (which they are saying I maybe could do for little moments here and there... OMGosh) would be more disruptive than my being a piece of furniture in the back ground.

 

[rejectedmom]

Buddy, She was a very arrogant "know it all" type but.. it it seems she was having serious personal issues that were taking a toll on her and which may have been clouding her judgement. I was not the only parent who had complained about her but I was the most extreme case. I think the SB acted appropriately and I think that giving her a second chance was the right thing to do.