Just as I thought....

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by klmno, Apr 26, 2010.

  1. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    The defense attny and PO are both recommending that difficult child stay in detention until his trial then be released with maybe some detention time on weekends or something under the condittion that he (or we?) go to counseling at the local mental health dept.

    They are doing this to try to keep difficult child from being recommitted to Department of Juvenile Justice and both have rebuffed by suggestion that even if the trial is postponed, to have difficult child come out for some period of time on the program with the ankle bracelet. The defense attny said since that program is only available to kids awaiting trial, they are afraid that difficult child would mess up on it and then it would be a 100% given that he'd be recommitted. Well, 1) if they are that sure he's likely to reoffend, why are they pushing that outpatient counseling might change things if it never changed things before and the profs recommended Residential Treatment Center (RTC)? (They said to give difficult child one last chance.) and 2) It would apppear to me that a judge would look at the fact that no one is requesting difficult child come out on that program and determine that if people aren't asking for that, they sure don't feel like he'll make it out it without it so he'll recommit difficult child right away. The defense attny said his legal strategy is just the opposite though- he says the judges there would most likely recommmit difficult child to Department of Juvenile Justice, however, he wants to argue that difficult child has sat in detenttion for these weeks awaiting trial and therefore should not be recommitted because he's served a punishment of incarceration already so he should have another chance prior to a recommittal.

    Honestly, I have zero faith in the idea of outpatient therapy at our mental health dept is going to do the trick- especially when they give therapy based on what legal people tell them instead of on competent mental health profs' assessments and recommendations and most of them are young, inexperienced, minimally paid and trained newcomers in the field. It seems to me it might be best for difficult child to get recommitted now instead of going thru a process that at best just gives him time to commit a worse offense and at worst, triggers more psychiatric problems at home which is what has happened before when we get under-trained people to work with this severity of problem. Since I'm being told that nothing else is available and difficult child no longer qualifies for the little services that were available under probaation (prior to commitment), I'd rather he go back now for 3-6 mos for these parole violations than to set him for for bigger failure and he end up going back for longer and dragging this out while he continues to get worse.

    If I don't support this recommendation of the defense attny and PO though, a GAL will be assigned and we'll be back to a custody issue.
  2. crazymama30

    crazymama30 Active Member

    Ugg. You just cannot win. I would be leary of treatment guided by a PO and the legal people.

    You have to be so tired of all this.
  3. Wiped Out

    Wiped Out Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Hugs and continued prayers.
  4. KTMom91

    KTMom91 Well-Known Member

    Many hugs. Sounds like you're between a rock and a hard place once again.
  5. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    The thing is, I have tried this mental health place before and they never did anything useful- except the crisis portion which tdo'd difficult child. They lost his files...I won't go on and on about it but difficult child has had outpatient therapy for several years- it never did any good although in fairness to him, none of them would follow the recommendations of a psychiatrist or MDE- they all wanted to go out on their own with what was going on with difficult child and it didn't help that difficult child was presenting a different side to them than he was the rest of the world.
    So although I can't say yet with 100% surety, I am weighing whether or not the time has come for me to throw the towel in. I love him dearly, I never thought I'd get to this point but fighting this system is pointless and if THEY are the ones using counseling or medications as an excuse to "just give difficult child one more chance", that seems ridiculous to me. I never went that route to give him another chance- I went that route because I seriously thought difficult child might need it and had issues that caused this. I'm not looking for an excuse for him and never meant it to be a way to manipulate thye system. I still give validity to what a couple of these psychiatrists said in the past- but what good does it do if the "system" won't suppo0rt them- the system just wants to order behavior mod then blame us because difficult child still has issues.

    How long or how many times should and can a parent stand and watch people making stuoid decisions for their child? And knowing most, if not all, don't even have children of their own- they are late 20's/early 30's but because they are working in the system, they think thay know everything. Seriously, it is like watching my child be tortured or dieing a slow death- and I am very serious about that. Hpw long am I supposed to stay involved in this? Am I supposed to lie and act supportive of it- which makes me feel like I'm contributing to it? If I say that I don't think this is in difficult child's best interest, I'm accused of not being supportive of their efforts and being non-compliant. I can't for the life of me understand why no one seems to want to go to a judge and just say "this is what profs
    recommended- either we have it avaliable or we don't- but if we don't, it's not difficult child's fault or his motyher's fault". But that statement would apparently be like telling the emporer he has no clothes on.
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2010
  6. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    His defense attny even told me that HE was getting to a point where he thought difficult child might never be able to "behave". But yet he is recommending that difficult child come home and we go to a therapist jsut because it's "his job to get difficult child out of incarceration if he can". Well ****- this seems to be the probblem to me- people think mental health treatment is an excuse- it's not- either difficult child has a diagnosis or he doesn't. If he doesn't, then why tell a judge that he should come home with ABC treatment? If he does, then why punish difficult child and refuse to advocate for the recommended treatment? These people make NO sense to me. None of them are looking at it this way at all- they are all just looking at it based on what is available- which is basicly nothing at this point- and whether or not difficult child should be recommitted to Department of Juvenile Justice- to me, what difference does that make- they aren't going to give him what mental health profs recommend. So really- at what point does a parent just walk away?
  7. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    I wish I had the answer for you. It really doesn't seem like anyone in the "system" really knows what is going on, or even why they are seeing difficult child.

    I think they are trying to get him out for therapy is because they want to try everything before they incarcerate him for years on end. Esp when all he has done are status offenses except for threatening you with a knife. THAT they pretend never happened.

    I don't know if difficult child can make it outside of a facility. I DO think a group home or some other setup where he wasn't just tossed back to your authority would have had very different results. Heck, even a local foster home for 4-6 months might have helped.

    The previous GAL and PO did all they could and then some to teach difficult child that he did NOT have to listen to you, that if he was home with you the only rules he had to follow were the ones he liked. So sending him from the very restrictive atmosphere of Department of Juvenile Justice to having NO rules (his perception - NOT the real world), well, it was a prescription for what you are dealing with now. Sadly, NO ONE in they system will even see this, much less acknowledge it, try to change it or try to keep it from happening to another family.

    I am really sorry that you have had to spend years dealing with this. I know it has taken a huge emotional toll and damaged every facet of your life. And his.

    As long as he is breathing he can CHOOSE to change things. It will probably take him many many years to do so though. At least with-o counselling it will. I really think that Residential Treatment Center (RTC) would help. I doubt that it will happen though.

    The whole ankle bracelet thing is stupid. And sad.

    I wish I had answers. What does difficult child say about all of this, or are you not allowed to contact him?

  8. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    They had a visitation on Sun. but I didn't go. I had told difficult child before that he shouldn't expect me to do as much as I did this past year if he ever got incarcerated again, and I meant it. I also told him the risk he was taking about being allowed to come back home again.

    If they recommit him, thay can only keep him in Department of Juvenile Justice for 3-6 mos unless he commttied a street charge whille in there because he would be going back for parole violations/status offenses only. He did have more than status offenses before- even a one or two felony charges- but this past year supposedly paid the price for them.

    Department of Juvenile Justice removed difficult child's BiPolar (BP) diagnosis- if the therapist in there gave him another one, I don't know what it is because I wasn't privy to his mental health info since he's over 14yo and was not in my custody during that period. His PO would have it but the PO said difficult child did not come out with mental health treatment being a necessity according to Department of Juvenile Justice. That is why he didn't order it before.

    I don't know that a therapist can do any good for difficult child until he wants to open up about things. I have had a few tell me it would not. Of course our mental health dept will never say that to the legal people. But it isn't just that- if difficult child came out and did straighten up because this detention time woke him up, he'd be stuck with whatever diagnosis. medications, therapy he was being given just because everyone would claim that's what did the trick- even if we'd only gone through 2 sessions so far. IOW- 3 weeks down the road we would know if difficult child had decided to really try or not. Well, if we haven't even nmade an appointment over there yet, how much effective therapy can happen in that amount of time on an outpatient basis?

    The defense attny was saying a couple of contradictory things about difficult child's chances of being recommitted by the judge. And, it appears that they all are convinced over there that using the threat of sending difficult child to dss will make me do whatever they say. And apparently they think the big issue is my refusal to work with this mental health dept. I think they should stop and look at why- I took difficult child over there for therapy for mos a few years ago. Of course we had to wait for months to get thru the waiting list. Then he got a therapist who kept swearing he could help if we just kept going over family history- for MONTHS. Then once when difficult child was acting out of control or manic or something, the therapist just made difficult child promise he'd straighten up and sent us on our way, difficult child kept actring up so I drove straight back over there and waited until the therapist could see us again. At that point, he threw his arms up in the air and said he didn't know what to do other than tdo difficult child. So what did he do to help us? I could have taken difficult child to the psychiatric hospital myself. Then, 2 years later I actually was going to give it another try over there thinking they could take the route of getting difficult child into Residential Treatment Center (RTC). But, they couldn't set an appointment because they'd lost difficult child's record but 2 weeks later, after they found it, they saw which therapist difficult child had seen before and said that since that therapist was still there, difficult child had to still see him even if it's 2 years later and I was requesting a different one. difficult child hates that guy so bad that once he ran away and didn't come back until poile and a crisis counselor from there found him in the woods and threatened to arrest him. And that whole experience happened with a court order- I can only imagine how wonderful the experience would be if we were on a court order. Oh- they also chuck any previous evaluations done by outside parties, claiming they have to do their own. Fine- except they are less exdperienced and knowledgable than most any other mental health profs around. Let's just say that when a SW first gets out of college and needs their first job,, that's the place they typically go.

    As far as Residential Treatment Center (RTC)- difficult child can never qualify for the system to send him to that now.
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2010
  9. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    Oh- as far as a foster home (therapeutic or not)- that's out because it has to be done thru dss and the dss rep told me and GAL last year that there is a law now, not just a policy, that dss HAS to send any kid coming into their system to a family member before trying any other avenue at all if they can find a family member willing. My bro already has himself listed as wanting custody of difficult child. Now, it would bee a foster care placement if that happened and therefore, legally require that the goal be to return gfgg home. But since my bro lives hundreds of miles away, in a different state, the chances of difficult child ever returning home while still a minor are slim to none. Of course that solves the problem of everyone in our system here- difficult child would be out of sight and out of mind and not on their budget- I would be paying CS to my bro for difficult child's care. If you want to call it "care"- you all know what I think would happen to difficult child at my bro's- if he didn't run away first.

    This has made me wonder if maybe the defense attny has been behind difficult child being placed in dss to begin with. Mainly because they can't put difficult child in there for no reason unless I relenquish him but they have been tying to propose things they know I'm not in agreement with for 3 years now- so maybe they are intentionally backing me in a corner until I relinquish difficult child. Seriously, if 3-4 years of outpatient therapy while on probation didn't fix things before, why would it now?

    Let's not forget that difficult child was in therapy when he pulled the knife on me. Or that when mental health profs or detention (with our mental heealth dept's liason) sent difficult child to a psychiatric hospital and the psychiatric hospital psychiatrist said difficult child needed a psychiatric Residential Treatment Center (RTC) and submitted the form to the liason, the liason from our mental health dept refused to sign it because the PO told her she wanted difficult child to go to Department of Juvenile Justice instead. So exaactly why should we go thru this again? because the goal is just to get difficult child out of detention now?

    I have a call into PO now.
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2010
  10. Marcie Mac

    Marcie Mac Just Plain Ole Tired

    You are dealing with a system that is punitive based. They do not recognize for the most part, nor are equipped, to deal with mental health issues on top of everything else. Every public defender I have come across with Dan was useless when it came to advocating for him. The only thing they were good at was collecting money for their poor representation from me. I was successful in getting the judge to agree to a residential - and Dan sat in juvy for months being "interviewed" by various facilities - he was one of the lucky ones as ther were kids in there for years as if the facilities didn't think they could come up with a success story, they didn't take them.

    And the Residential Treatment Center (RTC) he was remanded to - punitive based - they admitted he had more problems than they could deal with to me but never put that in his record, he had his PO changed more than one would change their underwear and the last one he had, didn't believe in any mental health problems and remanded him to 6 months boot camp to learn control over his impulsive behavior (without benefit of his medications) And the school they insist he go to on his release, punitive based and his medications that the school was in charge of, were not given and disappeared on a regular basis as they did while he was in juvy being moved around every other month because of "overcrowding" I had to call every visitation before hand to see what facility he was currently at.

    Honestly, analizing their actions is an exercise in futility - am sure a lot of it is doing the best they can in a punitive based system. They wil look at you as being an advasary instead of a partner with what they have to offer mental health wise. No good is being served with your belief from years ago that the whole place is staffed of stupid young inexperienced people and people are plotting and are out to get you.

    Do your parent report as there is no law against your taking him into a psychiatric doctor of your choosing, but also take him into whatever facility if they want you to do that. Probation will never be a sucessful transition into PCness if you are dealing with a kid with mental health issues that is not on medications. The system is set up for them to fail miserably and they become disposable kids, set up for a lifetime of being institualized via incarceration. Keep your eye on your goal, learn to make that happen within the pathetic juvinille system, and filter out all the other stuff re gal, your brother, etc. If you focus too much on the wrongness of it all your son won't have a chance and before you know it, he will be 18 and any kind of help will not be forthcomming

  11. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    I don't choose where he goes if he's court ordered and the courts are paying- he has to go to this place. And this place requires he see the same therapist he started with there- they never let him see another one. If he has mental illness, yes I'd want him treated- with appropriate treatment for it. But according to Department of Juvenile Justice, he does not. This sytem sent difficult child to a psychiatric hospital but refused to follow psychiatrist's recommendations. Then this systeem seent difficult child to Department of Juvenile Justice instead and now are refusing to accept Department of Juvenile Justice's recommendations. What am I supposed to tell a therapist wwhen he asks why we are there- that it's the only way the defense attny could get difficult child out of detention and the PO said he wants to give difficult child one more chance before recommending recommittal? What kind of message is that sending difficult child? What would these people say if they (when) they thought I was using MI as an excuse to cover for difficult child?

    I now have a call into defense attny, too. I want to ask both of them what plan b is because I'm seriouusly weighing whether or not to walk away from this now. I don't know if I'm going to tell them that part but they can figure it out I'm sure- especially if I don't show up for courtt next week. PO knew about all this- we sat and discussed it before court so for them to pick this one "solution" to propose and both be in agreement of it looks awful suspicious to me.There's no way I can have any faith in this plan working- it's another set up for difficult child to fail and both PO and def attny said they doubted difficult child would make it without messing up. I feel like if I go along with this I am just leading him back into getting into more trouble. Especially knowing that all tdocs we've seen on an outpatient basis have only approached this one of two ways- either they buy difficult child's sob story of all his problems being because I'm too strict so difficult child should get to do what he wants at home or they try to get to the issues but about the time they open up emotional stuff, the appointment is over and they send us home and difficult child either becomees an emotional basketcase or explodes and becomes aggressive with me. been there done that for 3 years prior to his committal to Department of Juvenile Justice. The liason sure won't say "oops, I made a mistake last year when I didn't sign a psychiatrist's form for Residential Treatment Center (RTC) because PO didn't want to go that route- maybe I should have told PO what treatment I thought difficult child should get".

    I think def attny told me he had ordered a mental health evaluation on difficult child now. If so, it will be interesting to see how that comes out- what are they going to put? He has BiPolar (BP) but we sent him to Department of Juvenile Justice instead of psychiatric Residential Treatment Center (RTC) so now we're recommending outpatient? Or he has no MI but we're recommending mental health treatment?
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2010