Just FYI...Felons Now Offered Army

[DDD]

Yep......E.F. is trying to get out of jail with a "go directly to
Army" pass. Somehow that surprised me.

It's really ironic. My easy child/difficult child is a dreaded "Felon" because he
had ten pills in the back of his unoccupied car. :nonono: He
will not be hireable for many positions even though he has never
ever done anything harmful to anyone. The SAO even wants to send
him to prison for 24 months!

BUT, based on what I hear in town. The Army is recruiting lots
of young felons. Yep, straight out of the cell. Don't know if they have to be "nonviolent offenders" to join up and join the
"violence" of war.

Ironic. DDD

 

[meowbunny]

The joys of no draft. Of course, I remember the days when boys were given the option -- military or jail. Then it was a peacetime military and these kids weren't wanted. Now, the Army is desperate for recruits. Personally, I think it is a good thing. For a lot of youths, the discipline in the military is the best thing that could happen to them. Can't say I'm thrilled that they are basically considered cannon fodder but it really is the only chance some of them will have to succeed in life.

 

[Ohio]

I suppose it beats prison time. Iraq may actually be safer than some prisons.

 

[susiestar]

At least the Army gives some training, and they get GI Bill benefits if they stick it out. And Veterans Benefits, for whatever those are worth.

I know that the Army gave my bro some much needed direction and structure when he was young.

Susie

 

[DDD]

I'm not pro or con. I just find it interesting. Surely I agree
with what you guys have opined. DDD

 

[susiestar]

Well, I am glad to see that some people currently warehoused in jails have an option. It is not a fun one, nor one many moms really want for their kids, but it is honorable.

Of course, I have what I have been told is the strangest view on Selective Service Registration. It is required for men. But women CAN'T register. This makes me angry. I am sure there is a reason, but I still think it is fundamentally wrong. I think if our young men are required to register our young women should be also.

I had this opinion as a teen, I still have it. And I TRIED to register, they sent my forms back to me.

I was actively recruited for the military, but health problems kept me from joining. But I still felt that young women should also register.

Susie

 

[Mikey]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: meowbunny</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The joys of no draft. Of course, I remember the days when boys were given the option -- military or jail. Then it was a peacetime military and these kids weren't wanted. Now, the Army is desperate for recruits. Personally, I think it is a good thing. For a lot of youths, the discipline in the military is the best thing that could happen to them. Can't say I'm thrilled that they are basically considered cannon fodder but it really is the only chance some of them will have to succeed in life. </div></div>

Okay, I have to weigh in here. Today's military is not the same as 20 years ago when it was "jail or boot camp" for many young offenders. I went to boot camp with several such folks in the VERY early 80's, and they weren't in the right place. Maybe better than jail, but not better for them - or the folks they would eventually be fighting next to.

These days, the military has dramatically changed from the Cold War days when I served. Big, huge armies clashing in the Fulga gap, while hordes of fighters shot it out in the sky. Cannon fodder indeed; would have worked out fine back then. However, today's ground troops fight a different war. Small unit tactics are the most common types used in modern warfare. In such groups, the idea of unit cohesion is paramount. That means that every member of the small team must be well trained, well disciplined, and committed to both the mission and to his/her unit.

While I'm sure many felons and offenders deserve a second chance, and would make the most of a second chance, the unbiased fact is that folks who pick boot camp over jail usually don't have what it takes to function in such units. And if they don't work out, it usually means the whole unit fails, and people die.

It's that simple.

Agree with the war or don't, it doesn't matter. What does matter is that the young men and women fighting our two wars are volunteers, and chose that life. No matter how poor the recruiting efforts become, there isn't much of a place anywhere in today's military for people who chose that over a 6x8 concrete cell and a guy named Bubba next door who thinks you're mitey purty.

For the same reason, I don't think a draft will work anymore, either. The US military has shifted to a high-tech, high-mobility fighting doctrine that relies on significantly fewer committed, well-trained and disciplined members to dish more [edited by adm] now than 10 times the people could deliver back in "my day". If you want hordes of bullet stoppers that overwhelm by sheer numbers, bring back the draft and empty out the prisons. Otherwise, treat the military members like the professionals they are, and give them the benefits and opportunities to do their jobs well, and with both dignity and fair pay.

After all, you get what you pay for.

Just my two cents.

Mikey

PS: for anyone who's trying to figure out my "political" persuasion, try this on: I was proud to serve under President Ronnie Ray-gun, thought the "Contract with America" was the best thing since sliced bread (at the time), yet I voted for Clinton (the second time) and Kerry. Go figure....

:smile:

 

[Mikey]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Of course, I have what I have been told is the strangest view on Selective Service Registration. It is required for men. But women CAN'T register</div></div>

Susie, I have to agree. It's not like the women of this country have less to fight for than the men, nor do they have less to lose in any "serious" war that threatens our homeland.

In countries like Israel where women fight side by side with the men, they acquit themselves extremly well, even in the most difficult situations. I've "heard" that if you had to fight an Israeli unit, you'd rather pick one that had mainly men - the women are much more ferocious. The same was said of the Afghani women fighters during their resistance to colonial powers.

I'm with you - let the women share the load with the men. We could use the help!

Mikey

 

[tiredmommy]

Just a gentle reminder for an emotional topic: please leave politics out of this discussion. There are other places to discuss politics, we are about difficult children and our families.

 

[skeeter]

Mikey - as a mother of a current sailor, I just have to say I agree with you 100%.

 

[donna723]

Mikey, I agree with you too.

I'm old enough to remember the draft and the jail/Army option some were given. But they never actually took someone out of jail who was already in! It was an "alternative" to going to jail, and usually only for relatively minor, non-violent offenses. In fact, that's how my younger brother ended up in Viet Nam! Technically, he was a runaway when he was a Junior in HS, ran off with a girl a year or so younger who had a very bad family situation she was trying to get away from. He went in to the Army right away, got his GED in the military, and was sent to Viet Nam when he turned 19.

I have often thought too how different things would be if there was still a draft and most young men had to go through the "boot camp" experience and then do their couple of years in the military. Truth be told, in past times many a kid grew up and learned discipline and respect in the military. But todays kids are different. For one thing, the drug problem was there but nothing like it is today. And kids were just "different" back then. Schools were stricter, you didn't talk back to teachers or parents without consequences, kids accepted authority more than they do now. We knew who was in charge - and it WASN'T us!

Our Dept. of Correction has a boot camp program and it's not really very successful. If they meet the criteria (not over a certain age, only certain offenses, relatively short sentence) they can be offered the option of a year in the "boot camp" or do their entire sentence in a regular state prison. Of course, they take a lot of the "punks", the street corner drug dealers, the gang members. But most don't make it. They would rather do several more years in a state prison than accept the authority and regimented discipline of the boot camp.

 

[DDD]

Donna, I would assume they are limiting entrance to felons like
my boy who has never done a violent thing in his life. He, of
course, wouldn't be eligible because of the brain damage but E.F.
(who is evil, lol, but not violent either) may be joining up to
avoid five years for multiple convictions.

Although I am not posting about politics, the current war has
or could have an impact on easy child/difficult children outcome. The number of Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI)'s
resulting from the type of explosives used in this war has led
to publicity about the thousands of veterans with brain injuries
and the lifelong effects. I have been clipping those articles
and sending them to the attorney. Awareness may help.

Sometime before I croak I hope to see positive interventions
put in place for difficult children and potential difficult children. It's all such a waste.
DDD

 

[donna723]

I was just wondering when I first heard this if they were accepting the ones with serious drug or alcohol problems.

At the prison where I work, I would estimate that at least 70% or more of our younger inmates are incarcerated as a direct or indirect result of a serious substance abuse problem - either drugs or alcohol.

 

[Mikey]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tiredmommy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just a gentle reminder for an emotional topic: please leave politics out of this discussion. There are other places to discuss politics, we are about difficult children and our families. </div></div>

TM, I agree wholeheartedly with you. However, in this case I may not have said it the right way, but my post WAS about our difficult child's.

To say it another way, today's military really isn't suited to "reform" our current crop of difficult child's. Unless he truly wanted to join up, I wouldn't try to force my son into a jail/kicked out or "join up" option. Most likely, the military would take him in, figure out he was a difficult child, and either shunt him into the worst job possible or send him home with an "other than honerable" discharge. Neither outcome would help him, and would actually inflict more damage on him.

Given the slim chance of him actually "fitting in", getting into a good job and turning his life around against his will (instead of jail?) , I'd probably discourage him from going in and encourage/support looking for other options.

Maybe I didn't say it right the first time?

Mikey

 

[DammitJanet]

I agree with Mikey on some issues but I do think that there are difficult child's that can do well in the military.

I dont want ANYONE being cajoled or forced to choose going into the military over jail because they think it will be easier. Nope...that isnt who I wanted next to my son...or any of the guys I grew to love in the Marine Corps. If you arent committed to your job, dont bother.

Now I do believe that some young adults could have the choice and it could turn their lives around.

The military isnt for everyone but it can be a wonderful thing for some.

 

[lovemysons]

My young difficult child was on probation last year at this time. He got off probation in January and joined the Army in April I believe. I won't say that the end result is in...but so far I think the Army has been a good thing for difficult child. He seems to feel a sense of belonging that he has never known before...for his fellow soldier. A deep sense of patriotism too. He is one that can't wait to be sent "down range" so he can fight with the "real army", do what he was trained to do. He feels like he is wasting his time while he awaits to be sent to Iraq.

He doesn't mind "dying for this cause". There is a certain amount of drama and excitement that difficult child seems to get a real charge out of in the Army. At least "wartime" army. It scares me.

lovemysons

 

[Mikey]

lovemysons: If your son truly wants to be in uniform, then he'll probably benefit from the experience (relative, I know, to the other things he might experience as well). It's the difficult children that don't necessarily want to join the military - but see it as better than the "alternative" - that I worry about. Those are the ones who won't do well, and may end up being worse off than if they'd never joined at all.

My son, bless his poor pot-infused cranium, is one such person.

Mikey

 

[Martie]

LOL--This will let you know approximately how old I am...

I thought the choices of the draft or jail--the third choice was Canada--referred to those conscientious objectors who could not qualify as such, but would not fight in Viet Nam.

Of course, there were other ways to avoid serve in Nam, which fell disproportionately on poor white rural and inner city young men. Between college deferments and the National Guard, there were many ways...

The last draft controlled the lives of a generation of young men--one way or the other, not matter what they chose. I do not thin the current armed forces are suitable for a draft, without regard to any political considerations. It's a different world and hence, a different army.

Martie