Just how a lot of us are feeling

[keista]

DDD I LOVE the internet for that reason. I TRULY believe I would have been more motivated in school and gone further with my education if the internet existed back then. Hunting through a card catalog to MAYBE find the right book, then leafing through said book to TRY to find the information you need and 2 hours later you didn't' find ANYTHING relevant or worthwhile and have to start all over again? UHG glad those day are gone!

 

[Hound dog]

Hmm. ok. Still not sure I get what that would do actually.

I just wish they'd get it together. I feel like I'm being held over a cliff. ugh

Step, you're too right, too too right. They cut what they're saying will be cut and our income drops to zero instantly. Now won't that be lovely?

 

[busywend]

I don't know if I am just stupid or what, but won't cutting our spending mean cutting jobs, too? Let's face it even if we cut out using paperclips - won't the paperclip companies have to cut jobs? Am I right? Isn't it obvious?

So, while I agree we should cut spending, I believe we should do it in a more responsible way and do it over time.

Is this thought ridiculous? Am I just totally not getting it?

 

[Hound dog]

Not a ridiculous thought. You're getting it. Problem is, is congress truly getting it? Cuz I really don't think they are.

 

[AnnieO]

Wendy, the real problem is how much we as a country are paying for stuff.

I'll give you a small example: We shipped something recently that could have been bought locally and it cost more to ship it than a quick trip to their Home Depot.

Prices for government entities are inflated, too. Ever hear about the $23K toilet seat? It's a joke - but a bad one - and based in reality.

 

[keista]

Hound Dog, it essentially means that a debt 'ceiling' cannot be established.

To be honest, I do not have a full understanding of what is happening or what is proposed - kids are home for the summer so the news is rarely on now and I just don't have the inclination to research it since I more pressing things to worry about. However, simply not sending out checks that are rightfully due is not an answer, and will not limit debt. Think about your own finances. If you don't pay a CC what happens? Does it go away? NO. You have that extra cash for other things that month, but that debt is still there and grows even bigger due to fees and late charges. Same with the national debt because if they don't send out SS payments, or don't pay the military, they still legally OWE that money, so the debt builds, and ceiling or no, it is valid US debt that has to be paid.

I'm certain there are details I'm not aware of, but like ppl were saying it sounds like a lot of 'playing chicken' and political posturing, and WAY too many alarmist statements being made just to sway public fears an emotions to one side or the other. I truly feel for the President. in my opinion he's doing his best to play the logical parent role, trying to referee two illogical difficult children (the parties). It reminds me of our last governor who ended up renouncing his party's affiliation because he started voting "logically" and not solely along party lines. I was not always happy with his decisions, but did see the logic in them.

 

[DDD]

Wend, you aren't stupid obviously. It is a hugely compicated issue and most of us only grasp parts of the so called plans to cut spending. The "emergency" status we are in now is because the Country is hugely in debt that has accumulated since the end of the Clinton administration. There is a hypothetical (at least in the past, lol) "ceiling" that once again is about to be reached. The Congress has the power to raise the debt ceiling which they have repeatedly over many administrations. If the ceiling is not once again raised our Country will suffer international as well as national consequences which, in turn, will mean that citizens will have a number of consequences. Some of them seem to be dire.

The thing is that this current Congress (many of them who are new to political office and couldn't possibly understand all the issues in seven months or so) set an idealistic goal of setting a debt limit to overcome all the decades of overspending. Most people think that would be great...including me...but they are rapidly trying to undo decades of spending errors too quickly. Thus, a crisis.

In our house we have had to reduce debt and attempt to increase income to stay afloat. Neither Party will increase taxes on the wealthiest. Right there, lol, they lose my confidence. in my humble opinion they are all showing impulsivity. They want a victory NOW. Can't wait like many of our kids for the appropriate time to get what they want....even if it causes major problems for others. Sigh. DDD

 

[busywend]

Yes, I get that the Govt overpays/overspends on many, many things. But, that has been like that for years - why have we not curbed that over time? And if we cut it quickly what happens?

It does just seem like a bunch of babies trying to get their own way. But, it also seems so irresponsible to try to move to quickly. I worry more about what those changes in spending cause to the economy than I do about paying more in taxes. Seriously.

Let's say every budget line item has to cut by 10%. What does that do to the economy?
job losses - in every possible industry & sector you can think of.
education - decreases in quality of education (see above - teachers job loss)
cuts to social programs scare me, too. I can not bear to think of children not being able to eat. Think of the crime increases. I shudder.
There are so many impacts.

Heck - with every job lost there is a loss of income for the govt - can't collect taxes if people have no income.
And on the other end - with every job loss there is an expense to pay unemployment.
Less Income and Higher Costs = Disaster!

It just spirals.

I vote for status quo until our economy starts to get better. Maybe a year from now start cutting costs. Raise the ceiling and plan for a year - then start cutting.

 

[DDD]

Instead of 10% it is HUGE. I agree with you. It is unrealistic and probably profoundly unwise to insist that decades of over spending be sliced NOW. There is doubt in my mind about how "pure" the motives are at this time. If President Reagan (who served well overall) got eighteen increases in the debt ceiling it is curious that our "almost" new President is being placed on the chopping block for instant solutions. by the way, I vote for candidates and not the Party. Things seem to be very politically motivated lately. DDD

Yes, I understand that the cost of wars are not budgeted in advance. Sadly we have been involved in many of them in recent times. But to even consider messing with our Vets and current forces is unacceptable.

 

[HaoZi]

Not a ridiculous thought. You're getting it. Problem is, is congress truly getting it? Cuz I really don't think they are.

Of course they don't get it, they don't have to live on our budgets.

 

[DDD]

Without rancor I'm asking you guys about something I truly don't get. Does anyone know "why" the R party refuses to consider a tax increase for those making over $250,000 a year...and D party agreed to take it off the table? There must be a viable reason that I'm missing. Yeah I know that politically the big buck people and corporations are the primary donors to both parties but surely that can't be the justification. If it is conceived as a hardship on those who make only $250,000 a year....what about a higher figure like $400,000?

The only non-political reference I have heard doesn't make sense to me. It was alleged that taxing the wealthy citizens and corporations would result in reduced investments into our economy. Then...with reduced investments Wall Street and expansion would flounder. I "might" be able to "get that" if the increased income taxes were a huge amount levied but an extra few percent couldn't have such dire results. What am I missing? DDD

 

[muttmeister]

Actually, it's not even a tax hike they're thinking about. They just want to end the tax CUTS the wealthy were given during the last administration and put them back to the levels they were during the Clinton administration, during which more jobs were created and the economy was better than at any time in recent history.

I think the Republicans have usually been the party of big business and the rich and they are playing to their base. The Democrats agreed because they can see that it will be impossible to pass ANYTHING without giving in to the Republicans on that issue.

So we all pay the price for more politcal bickering.

 

[Fran]

I'm afraid that if we don't have a budget approved, there will be a default and when there is no money there are no checks. Just like in our own homes when the checking account is empty there is no money to write for bills. I'm terrified what this will do to the global economy as well as ours.
No farm subsidies, no medicaid, no SSI or SSDI. No one at the FDA to make sure your food and medication is safe? No OSHA to make sure the workplace is safe. This is part of what the "no more government involvement in our lives means".
I like the idea of cutting every program by 10%. It's the only fair and equitable way to do it.
Guess I have become a cynic but I think foreign aid (to Somalia especially) should be cut by 50%. Close down the bases outside the US. It's not our job to police everyone. Maybe we can take a back seat to helping other countries. I know there are political and stability reasons for those bases but our country is becoming unstable. I'm terrified of being held hostage by one section of the elected officials in congress. They aren't feeling the bipartisan work relationship. It's their way or the highway. I'm still shocked that they were elected. I hope their constituents are able to live with results of the one issue type of representation.
I think the wealthiest companies should pay more taxes but a lot of the charities that provide services are funded by their charitable donations which allows them tax deductions. Without their donations many things we expect and appreciate are gone. (Like the Red Cross, educational programs, medical and educational research)
We as a family are trying to anticipate and plan what this craziness in Difficult Child will mean for our family and how to best prepare ourselves for it. I know that if we default every member of the congress, senate and White house should be run out of office and start with a clean slate. It's outrageous as well as embarassing.

 

[Hound dog]

I know that if we default every member of the congress, senate and White house should be run out of office and start with a clean slate. It's outrageous as well as embarassing.

Ditto!!!

There are plenty of areas that can be cut back without picking on people who already are suffering. I agree with the foreign aide thing, we need to help ourselves first, others second. Same with the policing everyone. We're stretched too thin and our own country is becoming very unstable due to it. And yeah, I know it's "supposed" to help keep stability, but honestly it's been a long time since I've seen it really do this. We stick them there and then tie their hands so they can't be effective anyway, so what's the point? Just to look like big shots?

Not sure about the taxes for the rich......easy child is only upper middle class and they're killing her already, even with 3 kids as deductibles. Maybe she hasn't found all the loop holes out there or something, or is too honest for her own good. lol

 

[muttmeister]

I think foreign aid (to Somalia especially) should be cut by 50%.

I agree with that to a point but it really won't help because foreign aid makes up just 1% of the total budget.

My taxes went up last year. I don't mind paying more as long as everybody pays their fair share but it makes me apoplectic to think my taxes on my pension went up, yet the fat cats got a cut and we don't want to raise their rates so they can pay their fair share. The middle class in the country has almost disappeared and the powers that be seem to think that the poor people should pay more so the rich don't have to pay at all. It is obscene,

 

[DDD]

I agree with all the adjectives used. Obscene is probably my favorite.

Last night I thought of a new initiative that probably all citizens would support.,,except the politicians, of course. Wouldn't it be fiscally responsible to have all election campaigns funded equally by the Government with an implemented ban on private and corporate contributions in excess of perhaps $ 25,000. Then the big corporations would have mega bucks that they could donate to a fund for the reduction of the National debt only. No multiple entities donating for their own benefit allowed!

Of course it will never happen but if there were a level playing field there might be intelligent, caring people who could afford to step up to the plate and bring reason back to Government. I would like to actually vote for someone before I croak and not just have to vote against the most extreme. Sign. DDD

 

[BusynMember]

If I didn't have grown kids who are glued here, I would be bugging hub to move to Canada. Seriously, they care about their people and, hate to say it, but many people in the US think everyone should foot ALL their bills.

Must be nice to be so rich that even if you are disabled or elderly you can pay all your bills plus your medical bills out of pocket. Unfortunately, that isn't many of us.

Why do we have to vote to raise the debt ceiling anyway? Most countries don't.

 

[muttmeister]

We have to raise the debt ceiling because we already spent the money. It's like if you charged up a bunch of stuff and then quit your job and said, sorry, I'm not paying my bills.

 

[AnnieO]

The only problem with taxing the wealthy more is... They already pay more taxes than the rest of us do. I'm not talking big corporations, I'm talking people.

Fact is - my parents are what I would consider upper middle class. We are lower middle class. And the government considers my parents wealthy. They do tax the snot out of us, too.

Any one have any opinions on the Fair Tax? because I'm hearing they want to start a VAT here - ummmmmm. Grrrr.

 

[DDD]

I used to be upper middle class but no more. Now we have three kids who have exceeded that level. They all work hard for what they have but they have quite a bit of discretionary income. I'm not sure what the accurate definition of wealthy is anymore but I have no doubt that there are numerable investment funds that are used by Corporations and private citizens that shelters massive income from taxation. I don't want to harm anyone's sense of security but to me it is disproportionate to aim only at the middle and lower class. on the other hand...I'm no expert. DDD