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<blockquote data-quote="Copabanana" data-source="post: 752968" data-attributes="member: 18958"><p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'trebuchet ms'"><span style="color: rgb(20, 20, 20)">Welcome. The image that comes to mind is somebody wanting to keep a hot blaze in their fireplace who runs out of wood, and starts to burn the furniture, and then when that's all gone, begins to dismantle the house. Until the blaze has consumed everything including them. </span></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'trebuchet ms'"><span style="color: rgb(20, 20, 20)"></span></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'trebuchet ms'"><span style="color: rgb(20, 20, 20)">I am in no position to question the therapists: But to me it sounds like watching her put beams of her house into the fire. When somebody is hellbent to put their personal will, ahead of their own survival and the survival of others, can watching be a effective or moral strategy? I don't need to tell you she is out of control. </span></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'trebuchet ms'"><span style="color: rgb(20, 20, 20)"></span></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'trebuchet ms'"><span style="color: rgb(20, 20, 20)">As far as the steps you've taken for treatment (I love the Equine Therapy idea), you've done everything any loving parent can or should do. </span></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'trebuchet ms'"><span style="color: rgb(20, 20, 20)"></span></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'trebuchet ms'"><span style="color: rgb(20, 20, 20)">Nobody here on this forum can advise you as to what is going on with her or what to do next. We, all of us, are guided by our own unique experience, which is different from your own. But it seems to me that the issue is the "fire." And until she is stopped putting anything she can find, onto the fire, to fuel it, she cannot be reached. To me, the concept of logical consequences makes some sense here. </span></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'trebuchet ms'"><span style="color: rgb(20, 20, 20)"></span></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'trebuchet ms'"><span style="color: rgb(20, 20, 20)">One poster here had a similar child, I recall, (there's a happy ending). The child's grandfather, I recall, had been a school principal, and lived on a farm. The parents sent the son to his grandparents, and the grandfather put him to work chopping wood. But something worked. The young man is a caring and responsible person, now. </span></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'trebuchet ms'"><span style="color: rgb(20, 20, 20)"></span></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'trebuchet ms'"><span style="color: rgb(20, 20, 20)">Your daughter needs to be contained. She is calling for a stronger and stronger container. She keeps escalating because she needs to be stopped. That is what I think.</span></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'trebuchet ms'"><span style="color: rgb(20, 20, 20)">Why would this be a bad thing, if this is what she needs? In such a setting, she could begin to calm down, and learn to calm herself.</span></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'trebuchet ms'"><span style="color: rgb(20, 20, 20)"></span></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'trebuchet ms'"><span style="color: rgb(20, 20, 20)">So much of this might be related to trauma. It may be helpful to read how trauma affects the developing brain. It sounds like her trauma may have been preverbal. </span></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'trebuchet ms'"><span style="color: rgb(20, 20, 20)"></span></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'trebuchet ms'"><span style="color: rgb(20, 20, 20)">The important thing is not the label, I think, it's the response, as you suggest. </span></span></p> <p style="text-align: left">I don't see why this would be the worst thing in the world. In a therapeutic foster home the foster parent would be trained to work with traumatized youth. She would probably be in some sort of a specialized school program. There would not be the opportunity (as much) to destroy her environment as there is now. She would have a stronger container.</p><p></p><p>Sometimes, it's important to see these situations as a whole, a system. She is can't be the only focus. She's burning down the house. The whole family lives in the house. How can it be that to allow her to keep doing it, is the correct response? This, I don't understand.</p><p></p><p>If the situation that she is fueling is causing danger and destruction, the fuel needs to be taken away. If that means, that she is using the family and the house to build the fire, that means she needs to temporarily leave the house, if that's the only thing that will work.</p><p></p><p>Sometimes, giving kids what they want makes most sense. She wants a foster family. To me, this might be a strategic intervention on your part. Giving in. And letting her will, win. Why would this be worse than burning down the house with the family in it? I don't know why you would fear or resist it? Given the circumstances. Either this or a residential treatment program. (Does she have an IEP? The school would pay the lion's share.)</p><p></p><p>But again, I want to make clear I am in no position to either fully understand your daughter or the circumstances.</p><p></p><p>I am sorry this is so hard.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Copabanana, post: 752968, member: 18958"] [LEFT][FONT=trebuchet ms][COLOR=rgb(20, 20, 20)]Welcome. The image that comes to mind is somebody wanting to keep a hot blaze in their fireplace who runs out of wood, and starts to burn the furniture, and then when that's all gone, begins to dismantle the house. Until the blaze has consumed everything including them. I am in no position to question the therapists: But to me it sounds like watching her put beams of her house into the fire. When somebody is hellbent to put their personal will, ahead of their own survival and the survival of others, can watching be a effective or moral strategy? I don't need to tell you she is out of control. As far as the steps you've taken for treatment (I love the Equine Therapy idea), you've done everything any loving parent can or should do. Nobody here on this forum can advise you as to what is going on with her or what to do next. We, all of us, are guided by our own unique experience, which is different from your own. But it seems to me that the issue is the "fire." And until she is stopped putting anything she can find, onto the fire, to fuel it, she cannot be reached. To me, the concept of logical consequences makes some sense here. One poster here had a similar child, I recall, (there's a happy ending). The child's grandfather, I recall, had been a school principal, and lived on a farm. The parents sent the son to his grandparents, and the grandfather put him to work chopping wood. But something worked. The young man is a caring and responsible person, now. Your daughter needs to be contained. She is calling for a stronger and stronger container. She keeps escalating because she needs to be stopped. That is what I think. Why would this be a bad thing, if this is what she needs? In such a setting, she could begin to calm down, and learn to calm herself. So much of this might be related to trauma. It may be helpful to read how trauma affects the developing brain. It sounds like her trauma may have been preverbal. The important thing is not the label, I think, it's the response, as you suggest. [/COLOR][/FONT] I don't see why this would be the worst thing in the world. In a therapeutic foster home the foster parent would be trained to work with traumatized youth. She would probably be in some sort of a specialized school program. There would not be the opportunity (as much) to destroy her environment as there is now. She would have a stronger container.[/LEFT] Sometimes, it's important to see these situations as a whole, a system. She is can't be the only focus. She's burning down the house. The whole family lives in the house. How can it be that to allow her to keep doing it, is the correct response? This, I don't understand. If the situation that she is fueling is causing danger and destruction, the fuel needs to be taken away. If that means, that she is using the family and the house to build the fire, that means she needs to temporarily leave the house, if that's the only thing that will work. Sometimes, giving kids what they want makes most sense. She wants a foster family. To me, this might be a strategic intervention on your part. Giving in. And letting her will, win. Why would this be worse than burning down the house with the family in it? I don't know why you would fear or resist it? Given the circumstances. Either this or a residential treatment program. (Does she have an IEP? The school would pay the lion's share.) But again, I want to make clear I am in no position to either fully understand your daughter or the circumstances. I am sorry this is so hard. [/QUOTE]
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