Just when I thought we couldn't get lower...

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by wintak, Jun 1, 2011.

  1. wintak

    wintak New Member

    we got dumped. By the doctor. yes, SHE DUMPED US! It was time for our appointment with psychiatrist and she said "It sounds like it's been really bad at home (she gets her info from the therapist)."

    Me "yes, it has. I don't believe any of the medications are doing any good"
    HER "I think it's time for a 2nd opinion."

    Then she went on to say how she's going to get a referral name and how this needs to be out of her network (not affiliated with the hospital) and at the end, shook my hand and said if I need anything before we get with the new psychiatrist, let her know and she hopes that they are able to help.
    Good bye.

    I was so blindsided, stunned and in disbelief. She is putting him on a different ADHD drug, upping the mood drug and send us on our way. She should have some names in a couple days and she'll MAIL them to us and she won't know these people personally so she can't really say who to go to.

    She said her bag of trix was empty and she was stumped by what to do. she's the freaking DIRECTOR of the childrens psychiatry at the hospital! SERIOUSLY?

    Who does this?
  2. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    OMG! Oh no!:groan:
    I'd be speechless.
    I mean, it's within her right ... but if I were a dr, I'd hate to do that, because it would be admitting defeat and implying lack of competence. Unless there's something going on I don't know about.
    Well, I'd be doing homework asap online for local support groups and parents who can give you dr names. I spent days on the ph collecting names and got much better results than "I can't give you a personal guarantee, because I haven't met this dr." Parents will say, "Dr X is an arrogant jerk. It's more worthwhile to drive 45 min to go see Dr Y." Or they can tell you which doctors are better with-toddlers vs teens, or boys vs girls.
    Sorry to say, but you have to take a deep breath and get to work.
    You can stomp around in between phone calls.
  3. hamlet

    hamlet New Member

    My difficult child's psychiatrist dumped us too. Actually, she dumped all of her patients by moving to another practice. difficult child might be able to follow her since the new practice is within our insurance, however it is about 1.5 hours away.

    Maybe you can look at this as an opportunity - to find a better doctor, or at least a better fit. Someone who might actually help difficult child, (and care? Or, is that too much to ask?)
  4. Marguerite

    Marguerite Active Member

    I would see this as an opportunity. If this doctor genuinely feels out of her depth, she has done you a favour. You need someone competent who can cope, and it's kudos to this doctor that she has accepted her inadequacy and referred you on, hoping that someone will have better success with helping you.

    What I suggest - follow the referrals but if they lead nowhere, go back to this person and say, "You feel you can't help us, but you're better than nobody. Can we continue with you while we find someone who we both feel is worthy of being your replacement?"

    by the way, a second opinion does not necessarily mean discarding the first. Usually a second opinion means "let's ask someone else to oversee for a couple of appointments, just to double-check that our main doctor is on the right track." You then go back to your main doctor, in the comfort and knowledge that his/her treatment has been validated. or if it has not been, the doctor has new information and ideas on which to draw.

    When you have a challenging child, you do not want a doctor who works by numbers. You need a doctor who can think outside the box, someone who can think proactively and creatively. If that means asking other doctors for their opinion, so be it. Grab what you can, use what works, discard the rest.

  5. keista

    keista New Member

    OMG and WTH????????????? She UPS the medications but won't see him again? in my opinion that's downright irresponsible!!!!!!!!

    Sounds like a CYA situation for some reason or another ESPECIALLY since this needs to be out of her network.

    OTOHbetter a psychiatrist admit 'defeat' and let you find someone who can/wants to help, than them insisting what they are doing is right and you must be more patient and give the medications more time to work blah, blah, blah.

    My friend was stuck with a psychiatrist that would only prescribe the "officially approved" FDA medications. Her poor daughter was on Zoloft for 18 months too long -sure it quieted her moods, but added lots of weight, made her lethargic, and she lost her "moxie" This active childThis psychiatrist refused to explore other options that other psychiatrists were routinely prescribing because the options were not 100%, dot the Is, cross the Tourette's Syndrome, by the book.
  6. LookingForAnswers

    LookingForAnswers New Member

    WOW!!! I'd be UPSET but I guess if she didn't think that she can help your difficult child then she is doing the right thing. BUT she should have done her homework and been prepared with a list of referrals that she felt would be able to help difficult child. It just seems to me that that would be the right thing to do. I believe that my difficult child's psychiatrist (that he has been going to for almost 8 years) is stumped as to what to do to help him....in fact he has even said that to me in not so many words! I decided to get a 2nd opinion. I asked around and one of my difficult child's friends mother suggested the psychiatrist she uses for her oldest son (Who is just like difficult child in so many ways!). I also looked on the internet for reviews for our local psychiatrists (including her) and that was very helpful. We met with her yesterday and the appointment was almost 3 hours long. She said a lot of things that made so much sense and suggested things that I have never heard his other psychiatrist suggest (like do blood work and CT to rule out any medical issues first). He will meet with her again on the 13th and then I guess we will do the blood work and CT...then hopefully she will be able to diagnosis him. She did say that from our visit she is thinking ADHD, ODD, Dysthymia Depression, (these all coincide with his current diagnosis), and possibly Aspersers (new one....but I have often wondered). We won't really know for sure for a while but my point in saying all this is that maybe your psychiatrist "dumping" will turn out to be a good thing! Good luck Wintak!
  7. At least you didn't get dumped with a text message.

    Really, though, it's better to part ways than to waste your time and money with someone who can't help you. I don't understand the part about how this "needs to be out of her network", though. Did she give a reason why this particular hospital and staff are not suitable?
  8. wintak

    wintak New Member

    I think (and I have no proof) that if we went within her network, she was concerned that the other docs would simply refer to her since she is the "top doctor" in the hierarchy of docs. Now I've had some time to just chill and yes, I would rather have a doctor tell me they don't know what to do, but blindsiding me really wouldn't be the way I would do it. And yes, 2nd opine usually means you go back but she was pretty clear that she's done.

    So are there support groups for difficult child's? Her diagnosis of him (I thought maybe I should ask cuz I might need to know that ) was severe ADHD, tic condition (she had another word for it) and dyregulated something mood disorder.

    Still just shaking my head...really didn't need this NOW. Ugh :sigh:
  9. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    I am so sorry. I think she is being very irresponsible. there is often a wait of three or more months to get into a new psychiatrist, esp for kids. She has some obligations to you, just dumping you after tweaking medications is NOT ethical and in some states could cost her a lot - like the license to practice medicine. She MUST write rx's until you get into the new doctor. She also has to treat any emergency situations like difficult child needing to be in the psychiatric hospital, esp if she is on call at that facility. She cannot jsut leave you high and dry with no medications and months to wait to see another psychiatrist, so make sure you send a letter asap telling her that until you can get an appointment iwth another doctor you will be expecting her office to handle any medication refills, medication interactions/side effects, and other medical matters pertaining to her treatment of difficult child.
  10. Marguerite

    Marguerite Active Member

    First (in reverse order) I would rapidly develop a wide-open mind on the diagnosis issue. If this doctor feels out of her depth with treatment, it could be because she was already out of her depth with diagnosis. Remember, difficult child 1 was diagnosed as Aspie at age 14, when I had specifically asked when he was 6, "Could he have some form of high-functioning autism?" and been told, "Definitely, absolutely not."

    Now to support groups - they are where you find them. Or make them. This site here is a support group.

    Support groups can be formal, or informal. They can be huge, or small. You can join an established support group (and play by their rules) or start your own. I've done both.

    An example of an informal support group - difficult child 3's drama class. It is a class for kids in our district, kids with "learning difficulties" of various kinds. While the kids are in their class, us parents sit and have a cup of coffee in the next room while we wait. We chat, we gossip, sometimes someone will vent about a problem (such as a specialist dumping our child as a patient) and sometimes other parents who have been there done that can provide the benefit of their experience. We joined this group when difficult child 3 was still struggling in mainstream. It was this site, and that group of parents, who helped me fight the district dept of ed and get difficult child 3 into correspondence school. Another parent at drama class had a child a year ahead of difficult child 3, already enrolled in correspondence. Their experience helped a lot. Then just last week we had a school expo day and another parent from this drama class asked to come along with us to have a look, her son will be old enough for this school in 18 months' time.

    A more formal support network, if you want to start one - ask around. See what is already there. If there is a gap, find other like-minded people. Advertise in doctors' surgeries, in libraries, in the local paper. Arrange to meet on neutral territory to begin with - the library, or a local coffee shop. be prepared for anything in terms of opening the floodgates with conversation, or conversely, people being too ashamed or scared to say much. You can be formal in procedure ("do not talk all at once; use the talking stick") or informal (noisy, but everyone feels they had a chance to vent). You can also adapt as time goes on.

    There are some important rules, but you can only invoke those rules in a more formal group. No personal attacks; no breaches of confidentiality; give people personal responsibility; don't tell them what to do, just lay out the range of possibilities and let people choose for themselves. Don't monopolise. I remember drafting up some detailed rules once, in consult with a leading psychiatrist who personally didn't like support networks back then, but I think he does now. The rules were a compromise with him so he would stop badmouthing the concept of support groups and allow his patients some opportunity to join.

    You also need to realise that sometimes in a support group, you can get some weird people. Some of us are genuine. Most of us. But you do get the occasional ratbag nutjob who takes over and controls things, bending them their way. I've encountered a few of those over the years too. A parents' group is less likely to get these, but it can happen. Again, at difficult child 3's drama class there are a couple of the parents who I have reservations with. One of them tends to abuse a friendship - she gets people to do things for her in a crisis, then keeps you hanging around doing things for her. She is always running here and there with her kids' activities and one time when she was overcommitted for a couple of months due to seasonal work, it looked like her daughter would have to drop drama class, for lack of someone to collect the girl from school. So I offered to collect the girl for that period. Then in the new year, when the seasonal work was finished, the mother was still expecting me to collect the girl. I did it for a while then began to feel used. I would collect the girl (and the school's rules and collection times would change and nobody would tell me - it was becoming more difficult for me) and then have to fill in time for a couple of hours before drama class. I would buy snacks for the kids, I never got reimbursed for snacks or even fuel. I remember one day before Christmas I had dropped in to a plant nursery and bought a tomato stake. The girl was eying off some seeds and wanted to buy some for her mother, so I bought them for her to give to her mother as a Christmas present. I didn't expect anything back, I had a spurt of generosity. But there was never a mention of it which I thought was odd.
    I finally had to stop, because we were taking a term's recess from the class (we were going to be away overseas). When we got back, we found that someone else had been hooked into collecting the girl. Again, poor communication and no appreciation. I do quite enjoy talking to this woman (although I notice the others to tend to avoid talking to her for long) and I like her daughter. But it was really hard work at the time, and a serious inconvenience that was never appreciated. In an emergency - fair enough. But when the crisis is over, you should stop using people, or find a way to reciprocate.

    So go carefully if you go down this path. It can be very useful for you, it can teach you a lot about your child, about yourself, about the system and about other people. But always be ready to detach if necessary.

  11. Josie

    Josie Active Member

    I am sorry. We were dumped by a doctor, too, at a time when everything was at its worst. I still feel betrayed by that doctor, but it did turn out to be a good thing. He was supposed to be the expert but he wasn't helping. Who knows how long we would have stayed with him if he hadn't dumped us? The next doctor was better for us, even though he is not as well respected. The doctor after that looks like she will be the one with some real help.

    It might take a long time to find the right one. You are one step closer now. Still, it is a shock to be dumped. I don't think I'll ever really get over it.
  12. seriously

    seriously New Member

    Actually, a lot of docs don't know much about the other specialists practicing in their region - especially as regards their competence. I would have thought she would know more than most if she is the "top doctor" since she would have been receiving the difficult cases from other docs.

    And she may have referred you out of her network because she KNOWS the other docs in her network are not competent to handle his case.

    Has your son had a neuropsychologist assessment or been to a neurologist for assessment of the tic disorder? If not, I would strongly suggest you get both those referrals going. She might be willing to help you with that - don't know. And if you were not being seen at a major university/teaching hospital children's psychiatric program I would also suggest you research the ones closest to you and see if they can do a 2nd opinion.

    The other thing is that, among doctors, psychiatrists are generally not well respected. As a group, they have a reputation as being the ones who got the lowest grades and are unable to be "regular" doctors because they aren't good enough. I have learned to try and screen psychiatrists by where they got their graduate training both as an MD and as a psychiatrist, if they are board certified, if they are a "child" psychiatrist vs a regular psychiatrist.

    So it may be that, even though she's the top doctor in your region, she really isn't that great and she knows it.

    I can't say. It could also always be a matter of economics. If your child's been hospitalized repeatedly or she foresees that coming down the pike, she may have been "urged" to dump him to minimize the medical group's cost to care for him. I know docs try not to let this influence them but there are times when there's a lot of pressure on them to do that.

    Good luck. I would be on the phone today trying to get ahead of the ball. Call your insurance plan and let them know what the psychiatrist said and her insistence that you go out of network.

    Another option is to look at the clinical trials for ADHD in your region to see if he might qualify for any of those. He would get free care and presumably the best available in your region.

  13. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    I was also wondering about the neuropsychologist.

    Frankly, if a doctor doesn't know how to help, in my opinion it's better for her to say so and refer than to keep trying and failing. Consider it an opportunity to get better help and in my opinion see a private neuropsychologist too. in my opinion they diagnose the best.

    Keep us posted.
  14. DaisyFace

    DaisyFace Love me...Love me not


    I agree with Marg...look at the postives. And really, it IS kind of refreshing to hear a doctor admit "they don't know" rather than spending months and months of time and money trying ineffective sloutions.

    That said - it's pretty irresponsible to just dump you and leave you without a doctor. Especially with a child on medications. There could be a waiting list at any new place.

    If you have an urgent situation while you are waiting - take him to the ER.

    Hopefully, your new doctor will be fantastic!
  15. Peace Please

    Peace Please New Member

    I completely agree with Marg. I owe my mobility to a doctor who dumped me because he was stumped with my case or a jerk, I'm still not sure which. I was FURIOUS at the time, but it turned out to be the best thing that could have happened. I had a seriously herniated disk and calcifications on a vertebrae in my neck that were causing me lots of problems. The herniation was pusing on my spinal cord, making it almost impossible to walk. The calcifications on the vertebrae were impinging the nerves running through the small holes in the vertebrae. My arms and legs were twitching, I couldn't feel much on my left side and the PAIN - OUCH!!! Unfortunately, the MRI didn't match my symptoms. A lot of diagnoses were tossed around from MS to Lupus. The MRI only showed the herniated disk, not the calcifications impinging on the nerves and most of the symptoms were caused by them. The first neurologist I saw thought that I was making up a lot of my symptoms because I CAN be a little dramatic (my Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD), pain and fear is a bad combination!!) When I went in for an appointment, he told me that he couldn't help me any more. He told me that he would suggest contacting a doctor outside of his practice (this was the worst because it was the Cleveland Clinic) because any other doctor there may be biased by his notes and conclusions. I was a mess. All I wanted was for someone to help me, and now I needed to find a new neurologist and start over. However, the new neurologist was WONDERFUL. He did many of the same tests the first one did to rule out other things, but a few others that proved that my worst symptoms weren't being faked. I ended up having surgery to correct the problems. I still can't feel much on my left side, but I CAN walk (after a year of physical therapy) and do most things I could before. Where the first neurologist was a jerk, he actually did me a favor. He could have continued to take my money and I would be much worse off today. I always try to find the positive side of things. It doesn't always work, but I TRY.
  16. wintak

    wintak New Member

    You all have such positive outlooks. I have had a GP doctor tell me she didn't know how to "fix" coral poisoning and she went and had to look it up. But, like I said, the blindsidedness of the whole thing blew me away. Nothing in the previous dr visit told me this was coming.

    And truly, in my gut I wonder if this is a "stats" thing. I have no proof, but I know docs have stats. And if the top doctor there can't "succeed" then it's a "fail", right? We were being seen at a major university/teaching hospital...that's the bad part...
  17. AnnieO

    AnnieO Shooting from the Hip

    Try = success, on some level.

    Failure is not an option. Failure only happens when there is no try. And according to Yoda, there is no try, there is only DO.

    in my opinion? I'd rather have a doctor admit they had no clue, and either try to find an answer or refer me to someone else, than keep going and not tell me they aren't God.

    Because they just aren't.