Just wondering

[Malika]

This isn't very serious but I am just curious... I went for a walk in our beautiful autumnal vineyards with J this afternoon (it being Wednesday and no school day, between his gym class and tennis class). We had a pleasant time but... he seemed to be inordinately preoccupied with the fact that he got mud on his legs and then on his shoes and was really worrying about it and trying to get it off... Recently he seems to have got much more "fussy" about this kind of things. Seems to me a bit odd for a little boy but maybe it's just a phase?

 

[InsaneCdn]

Enjoy it!
Yes, its a phase... a totally normal phase.
Trust me... they grow out of it. Too fast.

<smile>

 

[Steely]

Matt still goes through phases of this. I guess it is normal? Not sure, since I have only had one kiddo, and he is a difficult child. Normally Matt is a mess - but sometimes he gets compulsive about certain things. I think it has to do with how it "feels" on his skin rather than how it looks. Like mud could feel itchy to your son, or uncomfortable.

 

[keista]

If a "phase" can last for several years, then I'll jump on board calling it a "phase" DD1 did this with........water. Yup, that's right, water. If she got so much as a drop of water on her shirt, she would go change it. DROVE ME NUTS! Oddly enough other stains did not seem to bother her. Just water. She finally stopped doing this at about 7.

 

[DammitJanet]

I didnt see so much of that with everyday normal moms. If we got a fussy, prissy older than normal new mom with a single child -normally a boy dressed in white shorts, white sneakers, white socks, and a striped polo shirt for a play date at the park - well, that child was pretty much anxiety ridden and barely able to walk on grass because he might get his shiny white shoes dirty. No fun!

 

[Malika]

I didnt see so much of that with everyday normal moms. If we got a fussy, prissy older than normal new mom with a single child -normally a boy dressed in white shorts, white sneakers, white socks, and a striped polo shirt for a play date at the park - well, that child was pretty much anxiety ridden and barely able to walk on grass because he might get his shiny white shoes dirty. No fun!

Not quite sure what you are saying here, Janet... If the implication is that J is neurotic because of my dressing him up and getting neurotic about him getting dirty - not guilty, m'lud

 

[DammitJanet]

not saying the shoe fits but we had a couple of such boys who joined a soccer team when Jamie was 4. They arrived at the first practice wearing all white from the waist down with green and white striped polo's. (team colors)

All the other little boys were in black shorts or denim shorts, regular tennis shoes, and green tee's. Those poor little boys stood stark raving still in the middle of the field looking scared to death that any dirt would get on them. In fact as soon as even a speck of dust got on them they would run screaming to mommy to get a wet wipe to clean it off. The other moms and I just shook out heads. Needless to say those kids didnt last two games.

 

[Malika]

I spent my early childhood out of doors, climbing trees, making dens, getting dirty... this is my expectation of what kids do. J's anxiety about mud on his shoes is not due to my worrying about him getting dirty. Actually, he has always had a "thing" about shoes - doesn't care what he wears, generally speaking, but the shoes have to be right... Mind you, a lot of this seems to be about wanting shoes that "run fast" rather than about the actual appearance of them.

 

[Ktllc]

Since he has a "thing" about shoes, maybe that's just it: he REALLY liked the shoes he had on and did not want to ruin them?
If the "issue" is more generalized (anything messy, that would touch him, even if it come and goes or don't seem to be logical), he could have some sensory sensitivity. Try to read about sensory processing disorder (SPD) (sensory processing disorder, although overwhelming because incredibly complex) and see if anything fits. I am not saying he has sensory processing disorder (SPD), but we ALL have sensory sensitivities. We are not perfect, smoothly running machines!
I don't have sensory processing disorder (SPD) (not to the point to qualify it as a disability at least), but just a little example: clothes tend to bother me. As a child, my mother did not understand when I would tell her the underwear hurt. But it was not to the point it completly blocked me. I hated it, but dealt with it. Now, as a grown up: comfort comes first! socks and underwear are worn inside out so the seams don't touch me!
If you want to do a "little therapy" have him play with shaving cream on a cookie sheet, or a bin full of rice, finger paint. You get the idea.

 

[Malika]

You are right! J had on his "very favourite" fast shoes... Why didn't I think of that?
At the same time, he does seem sensitive to sensory things - incredibly picky about food, always notices odours and reacts to them strongly, really obsessed with any little cuts or grazes he gets... Also very visually perceptive about his surroundings, which I think is part of the same sensitivity. He doesn't seem that bothered by your thing of seams and clothing, on the other hand. What any of this "means" and what one does about it, I don't know. I just felt a little concerned that he spent much of the walk yesterday worring about dirt on his legs and shoes and about some very light scratches he had got going through the fields...

 

[Ktllc]

If you want to know what it means and how his life might be impacted, you would have to schedule an Occupational Therapist (OT) evaluation (ergotherapeute specialise dans l'integration du traitement de l'information sensorielle).
Sensory stuff, although seperate from ADHD, are often comorbid. So it might be a good idea to check it out.
I don't seem to find a whole lot of info about it in french websites... But I do find quite a few reference of dyspraxia (dyspraxie) which is part of sensory processing disorder (SPD).
I remember that J was tested and had a few red flags in motor skills (little cubes). I also recall that it was suggested to see an optometrist. Those are actually pointing towards dyspraxia and sensory difficulties (vision is a sense and vision therapy can help).
I do not know what kind of local resources you have , but it would be worth your time to get a detailed report.
If you want to read the "out-of-sync child" from Carol Kranowitz, it will help you understand sensory processing disorder (SPD) in an easy to understand language.

 

[soapbox]

But I do find quite a few reference of dyspraxia (dyspraxie) which is part of sensory processing disorder (SPD).

KTLC...

Dyspraxia (developmental dyspraxia - motor skills; or developmental coordination disorder) is NOT "part of" sensory processing disorder (SPD).
The two are completely separate dxes. The tests needed for each are totally separate, and the therapies are different.
However... they ARE frequently co-morbid.

For the record, a child who is on the autism spectrum will often display the characteristics of sensory processing disorder (SPD), Developmental Coordination Disorder (DCD), ADHD, etc. But each diagnosis also stands on its own.

 

[Ktllc]

I am quite new at all that, but V's Occupational Therapist (OT) told me that proprioceptive issues and dyspraxia are closely related. I just kind assumed dyspraxia was one of the many elements of sensory processing disorder (SPD) since one needs all of the senses to achieve optimum motor skills.
But ultimately it does not matter. The expert (Occupational Therapist (OT) in this instance) knows how to untangle all of it and see how it applies (or not) to a specific child.

 

[InsaneCdn]

I think the difference is that dyspraxia (Developmental Coordination Disorder (DCD)) involves more than just the senses... proprioceptive issues defintely have an impact, and are frequently co-morbid (but not always...). But Developmental Coordination Disorder (DCD) is a developmental (ie. "brain") issue. Somehow, the brain doesn't seem to compute fast enough, doesn't specialize motor actions like most people do, nobody really knows yet exactly how this works. But one of the frequent tell-tale signs is that the person can often do components of a skill, but can't put it all together or can't do it in "real time"... really shows up with things like handwriting (fine skills) and sports (gross skills).

 

[ready2run]

my difficult child gets really upset about getting dirty, depending on the day i suppose. some days he slops everything he eats all over himself and doesn't care. most days he will get really upset about dirt on his shoes or people touching him after they play in sand. i'm not particularly picky about dirt like that so i know he doesn't get it from me. i think it depends on what he's wearing and how much he likes it as he has some favorite clothes he won't let me take off once he has them on.

 

[Malika]

Actually, when I first read the symptoms list for sensory processing disorder (SPD), I thought yes, that fits... then I kind of forgot about it again (with all the other stuff going on). I read it again today and, yes, J is definitely hypersensitive to much sensory input. There is an ergotherapeute locally, ktllc - I know it is not a good excuse but I do rather have a sinking of the heart with all these endless people we are seeing (well, I exaggerate, but it's been quite an impressive list so far). And is his issue with this really severe enough to warrant treatment? Except that... all this stuff seems to play into other stuff (very articulate) in ways I only very dimly understand. J may well have dyspraxia, dyslexia, Developmental Coordination Disorder (DCD), Auditory Processing Disorders (APD), all these other dys'es and acronyms that are spinning round... I did join a French dyspraxia forum today so I can learn more about it, at least.
Hey, ho...

 

[InsaneCdn]

And is his issue with this really severe enough to warrant treatment?

Yes. Assuming you can afford it.
The earlier the interventions come, the better the results - and for many of these things (Developmental Coordination Disorder (DCD) included), Occupational Therapist (OT) therapy does not go on forever... they give them a really good leg up, and then life goes on from there. Its not "forever"...
(just feels like it some times...)

 

[Steely]

One of the MAIN things I wished I had done for Matt was get him help for his SD. He was so off the charts with other things that no one ever brought this up. Yet, in hindsight, this one thing created many of the other things. That is why I mentioned that he might not like the way the mud feels on his skin - Matt cannot stand certain "feels" - but more importantly he is overwhelmed by any sensation. Now as he has grown older, that has manifested itself into agoraphobia - he is finally seeking help on his own - but boy I wish I had done this for him when he was your son's age.

 

[Malika]

Ok, that's a helpful tip. I will make that appointment... even if only to have a report at this stage.