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<blockquote data-quote="recoveringenabler" data-source="post: 649908" data-attributes="member: 13542"><p>I understand what you are saying Albatross and I think Insane is correct. I think it's pretty hard to grasp sometimes, it sure has been for me too. I think we judge if we are being treated badly or not being respected or in any way harmed by another's behavior,we need to recognize that and set up boundaries and say no. However, at least from my understanding of it, we still accept them as people, as being able to choose their path, their way, following their own destiny. Which may mean that we remove ourselves from it. Like with some of our troubled kids, or a relationship with a spouse which is abusive or simply not working for us. We say no to the behavior, but yes to the persons ability or right to live the way they want.</p><p></p><p>I think there is a distinction between making a judgement about someones behavior that in some way is a negative for us and therefore making a boundary around that behavior.........and accepting their right to be that person without putting our judgements about them as a person on the table. It's the behavior that is judged as negative, not the person. </p><p></p><p> For instance, for me, with my daughter, I am not willing to allow her to treat me with anything but respect, I had to identify what I needed to feel good, to feel loved and respected and make those the criteria for our relationship. However, her lifestyle choices and the way she runs her life, is not something I want to judge her for. Judging her means I have a certain way I believe she should live, other than the way she is living. I would like her to be safe, housed, have a job, etc. but those are MY values and beliefs, not hers. She gets to live the way she wants. My stopping the judgements felt right for me and ended up freeing me of the thoughts that it should be different than it is. I stopped "arguing with reality" and accepted her the way she showed up. Interestingly, peace of mind was more available too. </p><p></p><p>That was hard for me. I presumed that my way was the "right" way. Out of that presumption was where the judgements were born. Judgment presumes there is a right way and a wrong way and we all live within those parameters and make choices accordingly. I began asking myself a lot of questions about that presumption. It took me awhile to wade through that because the whole idea of judgements carries a lot of weighty assumptions which I had to untangle for myself.</p><p></p><p>For me, loving unconditionally is a high state of loving which seems hard to obtain, but for me, it is worth the attempt. I also think that it begins with stopping the self judgments, the relentless mind activity which is keeping us (me) in line with a fair amount of harshness. I was just reading the other night about compassion and how it is difficult to have compassion for another when you have no compassion for yourself. I don't know if that is true or not, but it sure has gotten a lot easier for me to have compassion for others as I have learned to have more compassion for myself. Perhaps that is what prompted me to look a little further into judgement once I stopped the self judgments and started learning compassion for myself.</p><p></p><p>Albatross, I don't think there are any "shoulds" involved here, only you can determine your definition of love and of judgment. And, please don't make comparisons and then feel inadequate, we're all in our own lives struggling with how to love our troubled kids and doing the best we can. Which reminds me of this statement I've heard a number of times over the years....."let go of judgments, let go of comparisons and let go of the outcome." Every one of those is a challenge. For me, I aspire to live that way, knowing that I am a work in progress, I falter and I practice and I keep attempting to learn how to love better, love more, love with acceptance, wisdom, compassion and kindness.......and I often fail......but I keep trying. I think we are all trying, and here we're trying under pretty extraordinary circumstances. </p><p></p><p>I believe this path we're on here on this forum forces us to address some heady and profoundly difficult issues others are not "blessed" with. In order to love our troubled kids, we are almost forced into acceptance, into learning a different way to love them, in spite of behaviors many of us find incomprehensible or even reprehensible.......and how do we navigate that territory? How do we love these people we birthed or cared for while they live lives we can't even understand? For me, what made the biggest difference for both myself and my daughter, was me letting go of judgments and learning to accept her. It's taken me a long time to understand that, but it feels <em>so much</em> better now.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="recoveringenabler, post: 649908, member: 13542"] I understand what you are saying Albatross and I think Insane is correct. I think it's pretty hard to grasp sometimes, it sure has been for me too. I think we judge if we are being treated badly or not being respected or in any way harmed by another's behavior,we need to recognize that and set up boundaries and say no. However, at least from my understanding of it, we still accept them as people, as being able to choose their path, their way, following their own destiny. Which may mean that we remove ourselves from it. Like with some of our troubled kids, or a relationship with a spouse which is abusive or simply not working for us. We say no to the behavior, but yes to the persons ability or right to live the way they want. [I][/I] I think there is a distinction between making a judgement about someones behavior that in some way is a negative for us and therefore making a boundary around that behavior.........and accepting their right to be that person without putting our judgements about them as a person on the table. It's the behavior that is judged as negative, not the person. For instance, for me, with my daughter, I am not willing to allow her to treat me with anything but respect, I had to identify what I needed to feel good, to feel loved and respected and make those the criteria for our relationship. However, her lifestyle choices and the way she runs her life, is not something I want to judge her for. Judging her means I have a certain way I believe she should live, other than the way she is living. I would like her to be safe, housed, have a job, etc. but those are MY values and beliefs, not hers. She gets to live the way she wants. My stopping the judgements felt right for me and ended up freeing me of the thoughts that it should be different than it is. I stopped "arguing with reality" and accepted her the way she showed up. Interestingly, peace of mind was more available too. That was hard for me. I presumed that my way was the "right" way. Out of that presumption was where the judgements were born. Judgment presumes there is a right way and a wrong way and we all live within those parameters and make choices accordingly. I began asking myself a lot of questions about that presumption. It took me awhile to wade through that because the whole idea of judgements carries a lot of weighty assumptions which I had to untangle for myself. For me, loving unconditionally is a high state of loving which seems hard to obtain, but for me, it is worth the attempt. I also think that it begins with stopping the self judgments, the relentless mind activity which is keeping us (me) in line with a fair amount of harshness. I was just reading the other night about compassion and how it is difficult to have compassion for another when you have no compassion for yourself. I don't know if that is true or not, but it sure has gotten a lot easier for me to have compassion for others as I have learned to have more compassion for myself. Perhaps that is what prompted me to look a little further into judgement once I stopped the self judgments and started learning compassion for myself. Albatross, I don't think there are any "shoulds" involved here, only you can determine your definition of love and of judgment. And, please don't make comparisons and then feel inadequate, we're all in our own lives struggling with how to love our troubled kids and doing the best we can. Which reminds me of this statement I've heard a number of times over the years....."let go of judgments, let go of comparisons and let go of the outcome." Every one of those is a challenge. For me, I aspire to live that way, knowing that I am a work in progress, I falter and I practice and I keep attempting to learn how to love better, love more, love with acceptance, wisdom, compassion and kindness.......and I often fail......but I keep trying. I think we are all trying, and here we're trying under pretty extraordinary circumstances. I believe this path we're on here on this forum forces us to address some heady and profoundly difficult issues others are not "blessed" with. In order to love our troubled kids, we are almost forced into acceptance, into learning a different way to love them, in spite of behaviors many of us find incomprehensible or even reprehensible.......and how do we navigate that territory? How do we love these people we birthed or cared for while they live lives we can't even understand? For me, what made the biggest difference for both myself and my daughter, was me letting go of judgments and learning to accept her. It's taken me a long time to understand that, but it feels [I]so much[/I] better now. [/QUOTE]
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