Lunch with the opposite sex

[AllStressedOut]

It doesn't bother my husband if I have lunch with guy friends, but he does have some limits set on him by me. Not because I don't trust him, I do trust his ability to be faithful. I don't trust his ability to catch a clue when a woman is flirting. He has no idea when women flirt with him. He's a cutie and very charming, so he gets flirted with often and never sees it.

So there is a girl in his office who has no problems picking up married men. In fact I think she prefers them married. He can not EVER go to lunch with her, absolutely not. But his office mate, who is a female, I trust her completely. I have no problem with him going to lunch with her or working late with her.

The girl that I forbid him to spend time with is TROUBLE. She is currently after his friend who is married with a 2 year old. This man is already having troubles in his marriage just dealing with day to day stuff, he doesn't need this woman adding to it. But he doesn't see how it hurts. It's things like that, that I had to teach my husband. If I would have never spoken up when we first married, it would be him getting into trouble with the office tramp and not even intentionally.

Men are clueless. As long as you have your head on straight and your husband doesn't mind, I say no biggie, same for him. If his head is on straight and you don't mind, no biggie, but you both need to take eachothers feelings into consideration. As for anyone outside of your marriage...they can kiss off...it only matters how you and husband feel about it all.

 

[Kjs]

I grew up in that era...never call a boy. I was also told..Never dance with anyone shorter than you. OK>>>I am 6' tall. EVERYONE is shorter than me.

I have 2 very close friends that I have worked with in the past. Both males. They have come to my house and visited with husband and kids, and they have come when husband is not home.

I have lunch with them once in a while. One was not only my co-worker, he also was difficult child's basketball coach way back when he was in kindergarden. His son babysat difficult child. He has taken difficult child with him and his kids to sporting events out of town. He helps me fix things in my house. The other, he has borrowed us money when we were in big trouble. I was the boss of one, and one was the boss of me... back in the day.

I can honestly say they are my two closest friends I have. If husband wants to join us for lunch no problem. We invite them out with us. One is married with children, one is single.

When I am having an awful day and need to talk..they will be there. Regardless. They have visited me in the hospital. If they ever need the same, I will be there. I don't drink, but have gone out with one of them when he needed to talk. I had my coke, he had his drink. The other doesn't drink either, so we go for coffee or a coke. But husband is always invited. And husband always is aware. They even come over when I am not home and visit with husband.

If the shoe were on the other foot, can't say how I would feel. If husband had a female friend from work and invited her over and she talked to me, I think I would be ok. When these guys do come over and husband is home...they talk stupid guy stuff and ignore me. husband has gone with them out also, without me. When husband isn't home, most of the time difficult child or easy child is. They are always included in the conversations.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AllStressedOut</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Men are clueless. As long as you have your head on straight and your husband doesn't mind, I say no biggie, same for him. If his head is on straight and you don't mind, no biggie, but you both need to take each others feelings into consideration. As for anyone outside of your marriage...they can kiss off...it only matters how you and husband feel about it all. </div></div>Well, some men are clueless. I am, often enough. But I know that if I was out alone with the office tramp (and we do have one) I would know exactly what I was doing, and I think I can speak for a lot of men in saying that.

 

[AllStressedOut]

I didn't mean to offend HereWeGo. I'm sorry if I did!

Maybe I should have said...my husband and his friend are clueless. Or maybe you're right, maybe his friend does know exactly what he is doing. I have to say for my husband, he is clueless when it comes to women and flirting. The office tramp could have him cornered before he caught a clue. Thats why I just say avoid her on your own and if conversations are going south in your presence, walk away. As for his friend, well, he doesn't follow my advice as well as husband, but maybe he is hoping for trouble. His marriage is already in trouble so maybe he is enjoying the attention of the office tramp.

I've known husband was clueless when it came to flirting before we dated. He didn't catch on to my flirting, it took a house to fall on him before he realized I liked him. To this day I still have to point out when other women do it. I think it's funny usually, but the office tramp would try to take it further, so her flirting isn't funny to me at all.

 

[Big Bad Kitty]

Stressed, don't be so sure.

I'd be willing to bet that he is perfectly aware that he is being flirted with. And enjoying every second of it. And there is nothing wrong with it. It feels good to one's ego to know that one is still desirable.

You pointing it out means he has to stop. That gives him 2 choices: play dumb or throw a fit (what are you nagging me for!!). Playing dumb is the safer way to go. Besides, it was just harmless flirting.

I'm just sayin.

 

[hearts and roses]

Haha - I was wondering when one of the men in here were going to speak out.

My H would like me to believe he is clueless, but I know he's not. I have seen women notice him just about every where we go and I know he notices on some level, but he chooses to ignore it. It even happened at Whole Foods the other night!! I caught some woman staring at H and I just smiled at her. While at the bank one evening two woman asked him to come out with them for drinks. He pointed to his wedding ring and declined - they said they didn't care!! He was so astonished by their boldness he came right home and told me! Hahaha.

He also thinks I am clueless, which I'm not...I'm just not interested so I let any attentions I get from other men roll off. Which is what I think H does for the most part. I mean, who doesn't like a little attention - just to know you still are attractive, etc.? But the line is drawn.

That said...acting on it is a very different thing altogether and you said it Herewego. Anyone who knowingly hangs around the office tramp (male or female, by the way) knows exactly what they will be in for and should proceed with caution. There is harmless flirting and then there is great danger when the wrong person is involved.

I would never cheat on H because I love him & respect him and various other reasons. I am pretty sure he feels the same way about me.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AllStressedOut</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I didn't mean to offend HereWeGo. I'm sorry if I did!</div></div>Not at all! Just pointing out that sometimes cluelessness is bit of a put-on.

Now I'm in trouble with the husband guild for spilling the beans. But in my defense, guys: clearly, they were already on to us.

 

[AllStressedOut]

It's not the noticing I worry about, its how manipulating some people can be when luring someone into a situation. When you work with someone daily, they have all the time in the world to carry out nefarious schemes. My husband doesn't catch onto that the way I do. He is clueless with manipulation from anyone/everone. He is clueless with coyness. If you aren't upfront with the man, he is in his own little world.

As for his friend maybe he knows he's being flirted with and is enjoying it, but with this girl, you have to be careful. I think it would take 2 seconds for this office tramp to become a psycho stalker. Boiled rabits and all. That's all I'm saying. Shes a tad bit "touched" in the head, if ya catch my drift.

She is the only girl I've ever warned husband about. He can notice all the others he wants and be as charming as he pleases. As long as he is still flirting with me and staying faithful, I'm fine.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

How many of you all have seen the movie "The Family Man" with Nicholas Cage?

[spoiler alert]

The premise of the film is that the Nicholas Cage character is a high-powered corporate raider type living a playboy lifestyle. Years before he had walked away from a relationship to pursue his career. On Christmas Eve he reveals his true, selfless character when he defuses a robbery in progress. Turns out the robbery is a test from heaven and the robber was a very unusual angel (played by Don Cheadle). The angel gives Cage a "glimpse" of how his life would be if he had married the girl (Tea Leoni). He learns that love and family are more important than material things and appearances, and that the ruthless workaholic deal-maker is not his true nature.

So there is a scene where the Cage character learns that his alternate self had been fending off a neighbor's advances for years. He decides that he is going to consumate this affair and approaches his best friend to for help arranging it. To his surprise the friend is very angry, hurt and disappointed that he would ever consider infidelity, and tells him he'd be crazy to mess up his marriage.

So how many think that scenario is believable or typical of the "average" guy (if there is any such thing) with respect to:
-- the "alternate" husband being aware of and avoiding the other woman's designs, and
-- the friend refusing to condone the affair rather than helping pull it off?

in my opinion the split is about 2 to 1 in favor of guys who would behave honorably.

 

[AllStressedOut]

You think? I think my husband, at the most, would tell his friend he was an idiot, but thats about it. He wouldn't get angry with them. I think he has several friends who would be ALL for the affair and want to hear the juicy details. Of my DHs 5 closest male friends, I'd say 1 maybe 2 of them would be upset about the info of a possible affair and try to deter him from following through.

Now, I have a close male friend that if it were me, telling him, he probably wouldn't speak to me again. I also know women that wouldn't discourage an affair and want to hear the juicy details, but I would say my close female friends would be pretty appalled if I brought the idea of cheating up.

I think its a matter of the people you surround yourself with.

I do know DHs old office mate that was a man, was cheating on his wife with someone from work. husband thought he was an idiot, but I don't think he ever once verbalized it. I do know that with the office tramp and his friend, he has told his friend to be careful, but thats about it.

 

[hearts and roses]

My H would tell his friend he was being a jerk. I know a lot of women, however, who egg each other on to be unfaithful, but only when the marriage is already suffering or there is an extreme lack of emotional intimacy. Aha!

The key, IMVHO, is emotional intimacy. If a couple shares a deep emotional intimacy, there is virtually no need for worry that an affair will ensue. Again, this is my very humble opinion only, but I know that when H and I are really involved with one another on an intellectual and emotional level, we don't even notice other people in the room! For us, the physical intimacy we share is an amazing side effect of what we share emotionally and intellectually. When those components are missing from a relationship, I think it's very easy to stray for either party.

I love that movie, I own it and every year around Christmas I watch it. H loves that movie too. Of course, he has the hots for Tea Leoni. Haha.

 

[susiestar]

Some guys truly are clueless. I can point out all the flirting I want to my husband, he often doesn't get it. Of course he misses me flirting with him sometimes too. Just part of him.

There was one incident in a bookstore that we laugh about now. I was in one area with difficult child and husband was in the kids area with adorable Jess at about 2 years old. And she was just SO CUTE everyone who saw her commented. She was a really happy kid.

Anyway, this tall, built redhead come in an proceeds to follow husband around, first commenting on our daughter, then saying how nice itis to see a divorced dad with his daughter. I heard husband say, oh, I am not divorced, my wife is over there. And he pointed me out.

Lady then went on to say he was not really married, come on, she could tell a single dad when she saw one. She followed him, even rubbed up against him (she cornered him in the book shelves) to reach up to get a book.

It was really funny to watch her face as I came up with difficult child and kissed him.

He took so long to have any clue about this lady, then did everything he could to get rid of her, even walked away, but some women just are problems.

Your are problem right to warn your husband about the office tramp. My husband would be horrified if one of his friends had an affair. He would not EVER associate with the man again, except if they had to do some work project.

Not sure about husband's friends.

Susie

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JoG</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The key, IMVHO, is emotional intimacy. If a couple shares a deep emotional intimacy, there is virtually no need for worry that an affair will ensue. Again, this is my very humble opinion only, but I know that when H and I are really involved with one another on an intellectual and emotional level, we don't even notice other people in the room! For us, the physical intimacy we share is an amazing side effect of what we share emotionally and intellectually. When those components are missing from a relationship, I think it's very easy to stray for either party.</div></div> Very well put. Sounds like you and your H are blessed in your relationship.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Of course, he has the hots for Tea Leoni. Haha. </div></div>Of course. Who doesn't?

 

[svengandhi]

I have not read the other responses. I am responding to you as someone whose husband cheated on her with a person that he originally claimed was just a friend.

Don't do it - it's not worth it.

The only men I have lunch with now are the guys I work with and that's only in a group. In fact, more often than not, I just have lunch with the 2 other women who do my job at the office.

 

[BusynMember]

Hub and I never needed to talk about it. Neither of us would go out to anything alone with a friend of the opposite sex. I'm going to ask him about it. He'll probably say "I don't care", but that's how he is. I think that, if there is any attraction at all on either side, well, we're only human and why take chances if you value your marriage?

 

[trinityroyal]

Back to your original question, JoG...

It sounds like you and your H have a solid and loving relationship, and are very committed to each other. It also sounds like your lunch with the mechanic was perfectly innocent and nothing to worry about...

However, the fact that you are feeling uneasy and uncomfortable about it suggests that there is something there. Gut feelings are there for a reason. It might be that everything is fine this time, but if you and your friend made a habit of getting together for lunch regularly, that something may come of it.

Years ago, a male co-worker who always seemed devoted to his wife, asked me to join him for lunch to talk about a project we were working on. Everything was going along fine, talking about work, but I had a funny uncomfortable feeling after the lunch and couldn't put my finger on why. I went on a second (work related) lunch with him, and halfway through he started with the "my wife doesn't understand me..." business (eeew). I cut the lunch short, and made sure never to be alone with him after that.

I'm not sure what the mechanic's true feelings are, but the fact that you're uncomfortable, and that your H teases you about this fellow, but not about others...both are telling.

All the best,
Trinity.

 

[Star*]

JoG

I think...if you had to ask; you already knew the answer to YOUR question.

As far as the nasty ho sending your hubby questionable material? You CAN block that address temporarily or put a rating on your computer that should block that type of material. If she's sending it JUST to him? I would ask husband to send her an email that says something about appreciating mail, but none of a pornographic nature etc.

I ordered a magazine called Stuff, it's just a neat magazine but I had no idea it was 'soft' porn. The writing and articles are good, but for 6 months everytime it came in the mail, without telling me DF threw it in the trash. (haha) When I was home one day I said "Man it took FOREVER for them to send this." and then he said "YOU ORDERED THAT?" and I said "well when I ordered it it was because of the articles CERTAINLY not the college coeds." and he laughed and said "I've been throwing that smut out." So now when it comes in the mail....he takes a brown paper sack and cuts out a wrapper and sets it on my office chair. - He's a mess. And now I throw them out. Didn't know they were "offensive".

- just for fun I wrapped his Guns and Ammo subscription up in a brown paper wrapper - he asked "What did you do that for?" and I said "I saw the article BIG GUNS, HOT LEAD" and thought it looked questionable.

- We're both now waiting for Readers Digest! haha.

Gettin old.....gettin old.

 

[TerryJ2]

I still think lunch with-the mechanic sounded fine.

Loan Ranger, LOL!


Um ... appropos of a note I posted on counseling with-or with-o my husband, I'm not sure we have deep emotional intimacy. He's an extrovert, I'm an introvert.He is a very social animal and is always in a crowd, and if he's eating with-just one person, it's not going to freak me out.
In regard to my lunches, I often have a project I'm working on. I'll edit with-one friend, do an art show with-another, or talk about Rotary club with-another. Does it matter if I'm 50 and my friend is 70? That may have an influence. :smile:
Frankly, I'd rather have lunch with-my husband. But he's always too busy.

 

[Marguerite]

Pamela & Susie, I'm with you guys. We're secure in our relationship and talk to each other all the time. Who we sit with to have lunch is no big deal, unless it is a big deal to the other person and we haven't workd it out - therein lies "Fatal Attraction". But that's what works FOR US. Different people are coming from different places and you need to be OK with things in yourself and with your partner.

The issue comes down to - would this be seen as lacking in loyalty? Either by you, or your husband? If not, don't fret. If so, then don't go there.

My husband works in an environment where some very attractive young girls are constantly around. I know he looks. He tells me he looks. But I'm not threatened by it because I know he has too much respect for me, for himself and for the people he works with.Also, my husband really doesn't often notice when he's being flirted with. He's always been like that. And yes, blokes love having their ego stroked - don't we all? But as women, we grow up more aware of the risk of being exploited. Exploitation is such an everyday thing for so many of us (unless you're being raised in some sort of hippy utopia) and as a result, I think women recognise the potential for exploitation far quicker than most of their men. And really, that's what a threatening flirtation is - it's someone priming you for exploitation. Having someone say nice things to you BECAUSE THEY WANT SOMETHING - you - we're more likely to see this Mack truck heading our way.

I know there were times in the long distant past when husband was being groomed by a flirt and he didn't see it. And I know the same thing has happened to me - some of these people really are skilled. Or sick. Or both. But there are far more occasions when I've had lunch (or he's had lunch) with a colleague in a totally innocent capacity.

As for sending stuff out by email - husband is a sender. We're both receivers. He often runs stuff by me to ask, "Do you think the ladies on my mailing list would value this? Or would they be offended?"
He subdivides his list so specifically male jokes only go to those males who would value them. And similarly, when stuff comes in which he knows the ladies would find hilarious but the men would just find gross, he vets who it goes to.
Star posted something a couple of days ago which I showed husband. He then dug up a web page and said, "I'm sure she'd enjoy this, via a PM."
I looked at it and thought, maybe. But the page is attached to other stuff which is maybe not such a good idea. I don't know, so let's be safe. The thing is, we talk about it, we share stuff, we ask each other and don't just rush in.

Back about the time husband & I married (it might have been just before) I worked for an engineering firm for about 18 months and used to go out for lunch once a week with a very shy work colleague. One of the secretaries got me involved - this young man happened to be a member of South Sydney Leagues Club (the Sydney football club Russell Crowe recently bought and is trying to rebuild). Being a club member, my colleague could get himself and guests in for the REALLY CHEAP seafood buffet on Tuesday lunchtimes (we each paid our own way, of course). He knew we weren't interested in him - just the seafood - but we were happy to chat with him and talk about work, about music - all friendly chat. We'd ask him about football and the kids' team he coached. No flirtation whatsoever. He was shy, terrified of ANY female possibly making a move on him. My being engaged made me safe to be around, for him.
Then the other secretary left and was replaced by another girl, newly married and also a bit shy. I spoke to my male workmate about inviting her along, he seemed happy with this. So I spoke to her - she seemed happy too. But her boss overheard and put his foot down. The boss immediately put the WORST possible construction on it and told our shy male co-worker to stop flirting with the young women who were spoken for, and to leave us alone. The boss (not my boss, either) then turned to me and said, "You're already engaged, why are you trying to lead this young man astray? You should be focussing on your own upcoming wedding and not shopping around for another man. And to involve my innocent young secretary in your schemes is reprehensible."
Needless to say, the poor young man was mortified. He was too embarrassed to even speak to me after that, although I made it very clear that I was also angry with the boss over his highhandedness. But this nice, shy young man's concern was, if the boss thought that way, then what did other people in the company think of him?

So there went our really fabulous, inexpensive Tuesday seafood buffets at the club. Back to eating a Vegemite sandwich in the park.

Some people really do make trouble when they choose to put the worst possible construction on a situation. I find this fascinating - it's the people who think the worst who often are most likely to do it themselves. It's like, "You must have stolen a box of pencils from work, because that's what I would do."

The important thing is to know the boundaries. A skilled flirt will blur the boundaries, or lead you past them. I think that's why this is such a grey area for so many people.

Marg

 

[hearts and roses]

Marg: The important thing is to know the boundaries. A skilled flirt will blur the boundaries, or lead you past them. I think that's why this is such a grey area for so many people.

Exactly, Marg. Incidentally, I haven't seen my mechanic since that lunch and it is not a big deal, haven't given it a second thought to it since originally posting here. I was surprised to see this thread still had life in it. Apparently, I hit a nerve with many.

Here is what H thinks...I've known my mechanic for 14 years. He is 10 years my junior and we have been known to flirt a little, especially in the earlier years. But we're both married and committed people, not smarmy people. We both are very committed to our families, especially our spouses and children. My mechanic has met my H, my daughters, my sister, her H, my nephew and neices. He's been invited to family events and BBQ's and he's invited H and I out for happy hours freqently. I guess my H figures that if we were going to cheat with eachother, we would have OR mostly likely...he realizes that it is what it is; friendship and nothing more. He chides me about my cute mechanic but also about other men in our circle of friends. He knows he can trust me so I'm not worried about it so much.

I also think that if each partner bears down to heavily on the other, it will break down that trust and THAT is when bad things happen. What was that old song? "Hold on loosely but don't let go"?