Madness

Discussion in 'Substance Abuse' started by Sam3, Sep 6, 2017.

  1. Sam3

    Sam3 Active Member

    In the throes in the last 48 hours

    Yesterday after saying no to a request for the car around lunchtime he launched into a full throated come to Jesus monologue about how mistaken and damaging we have been as parents, complete with hating and cursing.

    This morning he apologized for being too harsh and we had a long calm conversation where we gave and listened. It felt sincere and I'm very stingy about awarding that conclusion.

    An hour later the same raging after I refused another request this time for more weekly money with name calling, suggestions he could just deal some more etc

    He seemed more clear but aggressive yesterday, clear and tired this morning, and seemed off for the last one. I guess it's possible he got altered in his room.

    Its the first time I've experienced this rapid whiplash. I know drugging and withdrawal cause rage but this rapid cycling is a new thing.

    I'm keeping a distance but wanted some of your reflections
     
  2. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Need more info. Is he eighteen yet? Drug of choice? In treatment? In legal trouble? Other kids at home?
    What is a snapshot of his story?
     
  3. Sam3

    Sam3 Active Member

    18

    DRug of Choice. I don't know. I honestly don't

    Was in residential and IOP and sober for almost two years. He is now renouncing sobriety

    Hasn't been sober or productive most of this year. Going out every night Chose sober living when after ample offers of help with job hunting etc, still would not get productive. We told him he could work on whatever he needed to out of the house. Left after 10 days to couch surf with rich kids and grow resentment. Came home less than a month ago suggesting he was tired of not self realizing and has resumed old patterns. Except before he was not raging about money.

    Yes there are two younger teens. He is well behaved to and in front of them and always was.
     
  4. Littleboylost

    Littleboylost On the road unwanted to travel

    I am so sorry that you are experiencing this. In my world this behavior usually related to cocaine mixed with alcohol and the aftermath. Also a simple jones for anything and being dry and broke.

    Don't even bother with the jobs if he is not sober. My son blew through 5 in 1 1/2 years. That less than 4 months a job.

    Mine will be 18 in T minus 6 weeks.

    We are insisting on rehab long term in patient or be on your merry way. We have no other children. We choose not to enable. We do love him dearly just really hate his addiction.
     
  5. Sam3

    Sam3 Active Member

    I spoke too soon. After being told hours earlier that whatever was going on he can not be here altered or holding, he came home both last night with siblings still awake on a school night. I'm heartbroken this boundary has been breached.

    His tone went from the usual to somewhat remorseful (especially when he realized how obvious he was and how much the other two have already been through) But he is still spinning it as some kind of " family" management issue rather than his substance use issue. Notwithstanding all my prep for a relapse and a detached response, the first time this reared its ugly head in my face again after two years I was blind with emotion. I succeeded only somewhat in tamping down the "WTFs?"

    But we did hold firm that we will find him a room with meals if he cannot stay with friends. I had done a lot of soul searching about whether more damage was being done from not being home for a few months. Though at the time we got him a sober living bed (which he promptly left) the problem was only publicly a failure to launch. I know most people believe in the rock bottom being hastened by homelessness but I've read too that some had mixed feelings because their kids languished in homelessness. He was never a homebody or "family man" but I do believe he needs a home to keep a vision of a positive future in mind. In true ODD fashion, he has never ever been motivated by punishment.

    That said we will have to give him the sense of family and grounding to work back toward somehow.
     
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  6. Littleboylost

    Littleboylost On the road unwanted to travel

    Do what is in your heart to do. I do not see detaching with love and not providing for my son as punishment. It is merely his consequence for his behavior. There are shelters and food banks and he is fully capable at 18 of finding a job and sustaining his life the way he chooses. I will not pay for a room for him. I would have before 18 a syringe it is the law. But now with full emancipation he is an adult.
     
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  7. Sam3

    Sam3 Active Member

    I plumbed the depths searching for my instinct before allowing him back home. It was beyond a simple maternal one or even an enmeshed one that Copa's thoughts on the topic resonated with me. Maybe they would not have so much if my son had ever been employed, or if he had not shown so much anxiety based avoidance growing up. it doesn't feel like he has bootstraps

    And sorry for using the word punishment in this context. I agree that It a consequence. I think it's that even though my consequences came with Swiss watch reliability, my sons executive function just did not process the connextions in an age appropriate way. Like some kind of magic would intervene between what he wanted in the moment and what that meant later on. It was painful to watch and I didn't know then about ODD. Obviously there had to be some dark magic working against him (aka me). One kid's lesson learned is another kids reason to go even further underground. Foundational ODD thinking. He's wounded but is only starting to bring online the understanding that it's self-inflicted. I think he might be raging now at that inescapable realization.
     
  8. Littleboylost

    Littleboylost On the road unwanted to travel

    I am right with you. Mixed disorders are so complex and compounded. My son is CD and it is like watching an Alien force take over where my son used to be. Normal is not in my vocabulary. He does not react to consequences the way to uwiuld anticipate one would. And isbrhat he CD or the drug brain. It is a neve ending battle.
    This week I am full of a lot of anger, I just don't know how to get over this anger. I am trying to do everything I can to save my son. Ultimately he has to want to be saved.
     
  9. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Psychiatric disorders are not certain diagnoses. Psychiatry is a very inexact science. A person can get ten varying diagnoses depending upon the person doing the diagnosing, the way the person diagnoses (testing vs. just listening) and even the country you live in. Some countries diagnose ADHD very little, some a lot. Country by country psychiatrists have biases. There are NO NO NO ways to verify a diagnosis in psychiatry. None. Just the constantly changing DSM and I believe a different book is used in Europe.

    Very inexact.

    When I first came to this forum, ODD was seen amongst posters, mostly American like me, as just a placeholder diagnosis that does not stand alone...that mostly therapists used it when they had no idea what was wrong. Conduct disorder was seen by posters more as ODD in a grown person...more refined ODD.

    Sam, I personally feel your son has many high functioning autistic traits. Even smart autistics are usually clueless about other people and life and many need help as adults. My son is on the spectrum and is basically on his own with very little help, but he had a great deal of interventions for autism all his life. I could not ever send him out in the streets either. In my case it is immaterial. He has never been a problem and works very hard, avoids drugs and alcohol, and exceeded all expectations. Some adults with challenges should never be tossed in the streets. Some are too challenged to figure it out.

    But some need it and often we do too. I have one son and one daughter who had to leave...one fir drugs snd one for being abusive to the family. Both are doing well now, but I couldnt live with either at one time.

    I am close to them both now.

    I think this rattlng-on post was just written by me to say we know what is right for us and our adult children. Also, what is right for us and them often changes with time. And also...that we need to be careful of diagnoses. The psychatric world is often theory right now, not proven science in many cases. Question any diagnoses.

    My son IS a spectrum kid, but we did tons of research and he had much diagnosing. Only autism interventions helped him. So we know by trial and error. He had many other diagnoses first, but the treatment for them did not help him. ADHD, ODD and bipolar were three diagnoses he had, but they were not the right ones. He isnt even moody. He was more just....differrent. naive. Needed help learning to live in tjis world. He got that help. He lives on his own, on his own dime. He is comfortable with himself now.

    Good luck to all. Nobody is right or wrong.
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2017
  10. Littleboylost

    Littleboylost On the road unwanted to travel

    I agree SWOT There are world accepted classifications, but how they are interpreted differ widely; and diagnosing is very subjective. CD is a syndrome not a true disease state. Until my son is clean from drugs long enough for any further investigation to occur, nothing more will be done on the mental illness front. And who knows if it's the chicken or the egg, perhaps he is a misdiagnosed ADHD or something else. Perhaps it is drug induced and will clear when and if he stops.

    What I do know is it is not normal behavior we see.
    It is disheartening and frustrating. We don't abide by his aggressive drug taking behavior and it is more and more difficult to manage.

    CBT is the focus for treating CD and ODD, it is. It a medically treated condition with pharmacopeia. And Frankly my kid has enough pharmacopeia on board already.

    I hope that his drug taking and bad behaviour improve one day. But for now I am focusing more on saving myself and less on his recovery. If I am working harder than he is on his recovery, it's not going to work. I don't think I could handle any more that 5 criminal charges in less than 3 months. Ugh!

    I so wish we knew more about the human condition and neurological development and disorders than we do. Some days perhaps we will.

    There is a new therapy being used in Europe for addiction. If I can find an article I will set up a link. I almost want to send my kid for treatment. It can't hurt.
     
  11. ColleenB

    ColleenB Active Member

    Navaigating through the minefield of addiction is a hell I wouldn't wish on anyone. I am sorry for your hurting mom heart. I know the pain well.

    I am a school counsellor and see many kids with diagnoses I don't agree with or even understand at times. I take each kid individually and work from there. For some the diagnoses fit and I can work with research proven methods.... but to be honest even then you have to take each as an individual. Even kids on the spectrum differ so much! Our kids need us to see them as individuals and meet the needs presented.... not easy!

    As parents of addicts it's a whole other ball game... and one we can't win alone. Believe me I tried! Until my son decided he wanted help absolutely nothing I did changed his behaviours.

    Saying that.... he seems to be slowly coming around. But I am bracing myself for the worst as I have been hopeful before.

    I am focusing on my job, my friends, my other son and my husband. I give him my support also but I'm trying not to be all consumed by him.... it's rough. He has been my focus for a long time... as I think our protective mama bear comes out when we sense danger in our kids lives... I would do anything to save him. I think we all would ... and we often try.

    I hope you find support and strength here. I did... and still do.

    Take care.
     
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  12. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Addiction is ugly. The symptoms many of our kids demonstrate are similar. What causes addiction? We do know a tendency to become addicted seems to be hereditary. But if one chooses not to experiment, no addict, right? I have two kids with severe addictionn in birth family, but they never were interested in using substances, pot included. My autistic spectrum son was born with crack in his system. He was the fifth biological child his birthmother had who was drug exposed. My yoingest's birh father spent many stints in prison due to serious drug crimes, like armed robbery. His birth daughter is going to school to become a cop. My oldest daughter used and we dont know her birth family history.

    Does mental illness cause addiction? Lots of self medicating. My daughter who used was diagnosed with bipolar while using. She has been off the meth/cocaine for a decade and clearly is not bipolar. Anxiety? I think I read 10% of the population had anxiety disorders but not all use drugs to self medicate. Depression is also common but not always self medicated. Peer pressure? This was huge for my shy oldest daughter who knew that drug use would make her popular with certain kids. Throw shyness in there. But not everyone who is shy. So is there a commpn thread?

    Psychiatry knows and doesnt know how to diagnose and treat anything. I had serious mood disorders since childhood and have been a patient since age 23. I have HAD LOTS of psychiatrists and psychologists and trialed on more medications than I have fingers. It took ten years to find medications that truly worked.

    For me, psychiatrists all diagnosed various mood disorders but I got different mood disorder names and anxiety labels. If I had been born today I would have probably also have been hit with ADHD and ODD (I freaked out at NO) and who knows what else. Different therapists took different approaches. Cbt was new when I first started it and it helped but not enough. I needed medications too. I think the newer dialectal behavioral therapy is better thsn CBT. In the U.S. it is in high demand and it is hard to get it...at least where I live. But I am older now and became very spiritual (not religious) and this changede me profoundly, more than all the therapy I have had. I rarely go anymore. The key for me was learning to trust the universe. Helped more than years of therapy. You never can predict what will help somebody. Or not.

    I feel frustrated for those still struggling with adult kids who are addicted and suspected with some mental illness too. There is so much to still learn and not enough concrete ways to diagnose and treat. Mental illness diagnosis and treatments change as fast as the type of phones we use. It is far from an exact science yet. I speak as a long term patient. I have seen psychiatry change so much and so fast in forty years...and yet there is still no test to prove a diagnoses. And there is less shame now, but there is still shame and stigma.

    Such a mess...
     
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    Last edited: Sep 8, 2017
  13. Littleboylost

    Littleboylost On the road unwanted to travel

    SWOT that gives me hope. First that I hope my son can get sorted out and stay clean and second that his mental issues can and may clear up if he stays off the drugs.
     
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  14. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    I dont think anyone can accurately diagnose somebody who is using drugs. They have a hard enough time correctly diagnosing people who dont use drugs. Your brain on drugs is altered.
     
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  15. Sam3

    Sam3 Active Member

    I was hoping someone would say

    "you need to press that green button, 3rd from the right"

    Sorry. I'm whipped right now and he's gone no contact.
     
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  16. Littleboylost

    Littleboylost On the road unwanted to travel

    Sam nothing I can do or say can make this any better. Know you are not alone. This is a battle Royale!
    You love your son and you fight to support him to recovery. This is a never ending battle it seams.
    :notalone::staystrong:
     
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  17. Sam3

    Sam3 Active Member

    Thank you. These contacts help me from getting too destabilized and keep my eye on the ball.

    I think my job is to row my own boat within site of his, rather than jump in his and bail while he lists and takes on water. And I need to turn my eyes back forward and take in the view and trust that he'll reach me if he wants to stay dry.
     
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  18. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    I think we live in very tough times. 125 years ago sons left home to be cowboys. They went to saloons. OK. I will not romanticize it. Except they did sleep under the stars. There was not global warming.

    Now. Drugs get stronger and stronger everyday. Predators are high-tech. There is so little room for quirkiness. For the odd man out. To be lost. And then found.

    There used to be a term called creative illness. Or soul sickness.

    I wonder if mothers in 1850 or1900 posted as do we. Did Lord Byron's mother post to Elizabeth Woolf's? We're they even contemporaneous? Did these mothers of old yore stuff their grief? Did they feel or think they had a role or responsibility to intervene in grown children's fates?

    Are we all cultural products of our epoch? Has our society loaded us with this activism that I play out with respect to my son. OK. I am like that a lot in other things.

    There was a term in psychiatry maybe 55 years ago. Schizophrenogenic mothers. Psychiatry believed behavior by mothers could trigger the disease. The word they used often was double bind. The mothers were perceived as putting their kids in double blinds and causing it.

    Oh. April fool's. Research called into question. False alarm.

    You see. I feel in a double bind. When I can articulate I will share. I feel like I need a diagnosis as an ill mother. My victim is me. I am playing various parts. Because I leap in and out of the treatment team. oh I am the treatment team and the patient too. does anybody else feel they've lost their bearings? Maybe a never before seen version of what's it called?

    Munchausen syndrome.

    Today I went in an ambulance. I thought I broke a rib. A contusion. Hurts.

    I think I am heartbroken. I think I am losing hope. I think I am a fool. How did I not accept this outcome? Why was I do deluded to have hope? Was I wrong to adopt him? If i could go back 26 years I would have loved him the same. But I get mad at myself to not have seen this happen in a coherent way.. And by my not anticipating it he was not ready either. Oh he had tons of treatment. but behind that I believed he would be OK. Because we loved each so much They call this river de Nile.or just overwhelming paralyzing pain and fear. Heartsick.
     
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    Last edited: Sep 9, 2017
  19. Sam3

    Sam3 Active Member

    Oh my Copa. If I could hold your pain for you for even a minute so you could trust that he has exactly the same amount of loving agony in the world as he has now, I would.

    Maybe that's the butterfly effect of that love. That you have put it out there and people like me have been comforted in seeing themselves in you. You can put his name on that plaque.

    And I also read here long ago something that stuck with me. Something like: these times don't erase the years when things were better, that we can look at those times with gratitude. And I would add that few people have their mettle tested like this and most will never know this about themselves -- that they have given absolutely everything for another. No one would wish for motherhood to feel like a battlefield but it does speak to who you are and who you have been for him, whether he sees it or not.
     
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  20. Littleboylost

    Littleboylost On the road unwanted to travel

    I am swimming right beside you. I don't want to be yet here I am.