Manic display

[DammitJanet]

This has nothing to do with my having meningitis three years ago. I will show you why I am somewhat confused.

Jacobwas given sweets and an ice-cream to eat by someone today. This afternoon and evening he has been manically hyper - the way he is usually but doubled. Running furiously, manically, up and down, in circles, outside. Wild and excited. Lunatic... actually, come to think of it, it is the full moon, isn't it?? Could it be... Or is it the sweet stuff again?

It's not sugar. He eats sugar in some form every day. When I shop, I look at the ingredients list and don't buy anything with additives. I never buy him sweets (candy) but sometimes he has chocolate or an ice-cream - never seen this before with ice-cream.

I am confused. You asked. We gave you information and advice and you said it couldnt be what we suggested. You do this a lot.

Jacob raised a good point this morning. He said (a propos of nothing) "Mummy, it's not good to kill." "No," I replied, "It's not good. If you kill, you feel sad afterwards." He thought for a moment and then said, "But what if you are a giant who kills children?"
A good question. What do you think?

Ah well, you are none of you such subtle philosophers as my son.... His question was not about whether it is wrong for giants to kill children (but of course) but whether, my having said it was wrong to kill, whether it was wrong to kill a giant who was going to kill children (thereby saving their lives)... you see?!

Again, point?

This afternoon I went to a little show that the kids from J's activity centre put on - very sweet and J performed his (very small) part to perfection, I thought

It is raining heavily here and I grabbed J's new umbrella to get to and from the car and into the building. When he saw it, after the show, he wanted to play with it inside "to do magic," he said (lots of the show was based on magic routines). I obviously refused as it could be dangerous and hurt someone. So then... J started crying in this really distressed-seeming way and various people, big and small, started coming up looking very concerned, asking "What's wrong, J?" One teacher looked really worried and quizzed me about why he was crying like this... I'm afraid I felt very cynical, as if it was all just an (unconscious, obviously) bid to get what he wanted in quite a manipulative way.
Am I being hard hearted?? I really didn't feel nearly as sorry for him as the others did...

Yes, I see... though all the other kids would have had this mild high, wouldn't they? Anyway, it wasn't a big deal - I was just "interested" in it because of this manipulative theme. Just another day... I could also be manipulative as a child. I remember when I was about eight, some older children being nasty to me. I suddenly blurted out that my father had just died (not true, needless to say).

If it "wasnt a big deal" then why were you so interested in it.

It's pretty clear to me that my son has dysgraphia - at least; he could well have other "dys" that have not yet been revealed because of his age. He does not read or write at all yet (they teach reading/writing very slowly in France, which I personally think is wise) but has for some time written his first name in "joined up writing". It is always the same - huge, irregularly sized letters that slope up or down and with big spaces between the individual letters. Of course he is very young so it is difficult to talk about this as though it is something that may not change but seems clear that it indicates a difficulty with forming letters in the standard way. He does also have some fine motor skills problems (not gross ones) - cannot tie shoelaces, finds buttons difficult, which I presume is related.

Anyway, I have just been reading about ADHD and all the attendant learning disabilities that go with it so picked out another problem to start worrying about

My point is that you post something to get us to respond, see what we will say and then at the end, you will just say, "oh, well okay, that was interesting but it wasnt a big deal, I was just curious." I actually do normally spend a lot of time responding to people because I want them to get the help they need. Thats why I have been here for 13 years. There have been times that I have researched things for people for hours and hours on end. Days even.

But dont worry, I wont be aggravating myself with your posts anymore. I hope you and your son do get along well. I think he is a beautiful little boy who is going to be perfectly fine. Good luck.

 

[Steely]

Janet - perhaps it is just a way Malika copes with the stress. Or maybe, she thinks her posts have a very linear train of thought, but to others it does not seems as so. I am sure there have been many a confusing post from all of us. Stress does that. Personally I have not noticed this from Malika - but I am not reading every post.

I know, as a moderator, that you feel that throwing daggers is not in the best interest of anyone on our board. I know we would all hate for anyone to leave the board, because someone with authority has mis-understood, de-valued, or been angry with them. I would hope we could air all grievances in a PM or outside the board.

Thank you

 

[Malika]

Is it that you do not understand the British word "sweets", Janet? Sweets means what you call candy. It is not the same as "sweet", which covers anything containing sugar. Do you not understand that I am talking about two occasions when he got sweets from someone other than me?
I said - and there is no confusion because it is simply the truth - that J gets like this after eating sweets. I responded saying it was not sugar because he eats that every day. In fact, the thread was helpful, clarifying for me that there is very possibly something in sweets or candy containing additives that is not helpful to him.
You have gone through all my posts picking out ones that seem to you not relevant or not clear. Hmmm.... I don't think many people's posts - dare I even suggest your own - would bear such scrutiny.
When one is uncertain about something - and there is so much uncertainty in all these behaviours and conditions, uncertainty of diagnosis, as we all know - it is a process of trying to reach clarity. Some things people say obviously fit, some things don't - that's just inevitable, and to be able to reject a possibility in the light of what someone says is in fact very helpful. I have done this a few times; you have extrapolated from that and now claim I do it all the time. That is simply not true...
There could be some form of cultural gap at play in the sense that European humour, particularly British, is perhaps more subtle, less easy to read, than some other forms of humour. So when I posted about dysgraphia, I was genuinely worried about that. My subsequent post, in response to someone saying that maybe I was worrying about nothing, was to agree in a kind of mock-serious way that I had indeed picked out another subject to get anxious about. It does not mean I literally did that. It is irony, humour, a kind of Woody Allenish self-deprecation (while obviously not as amusingly as him).
Several other people have assured me that they did not find what I said in this thread confusing or contradictory.

 

[buddy]

Oh, I was so sad to read of the conflict here, we are all passionate about our kids and I think also about helping and supporting each other, which is bound to end in some misunderstandings. I honestly do think it is simply a manifestation of the board being type written, and no vocal inflection/facial expression to help immediately know when things are more tongue and cheek, light hearted and also to clarify misunderstandings (yes it is different here, sweets are generalized to everything and in many places they specifically mean, candy). I see the logic and helpfulness in this thread. I think it hits many people to search thru which of the sugary foods, or of any kinds of foods, set off kids behavior. I think Malika sorts through things very carefully for her son to try to find ideas for preventing things in the future and also because she is in a stage of this process where she knows SOMETHING is up but what exactly???? It is hard to figure out. It would be nice if it could be more fixable things like food sensitivities (in whole or at least in part-something that could at least help him a little). Right now there is fear thatthere is something really serious that is going on (just assuming Malika--of course feel free to correct me) and that is a very scary place to be.

Having lived in England for several months (not long but I did have to go through cultural adjustments) I see the humor and how Malika handles things in the end as a form of saying.....I know these are not life shattering events (esp. given some of the very life shattering events on this board at times-it is not a competition obviously, but saying Well, it is not a super important thing, just wondering.... is kind of a way to say, I get it that it may not be a child running away and never coming home again, so thanks for your time everyone...) I think it is her way of thanking everyone who really took time to listen to her. At least that is how I have heard it. Even in the thread about the giant, it took a turn for the humorous and I enjoyed that little break. I remember posting and hoping Malika understood that I was just having fun and then I saw her reply and thought, yay she got it that I wasn't picking on her, just joining in after her teasing us about not being the philosphers that her son is.... I hope I read it right, I thought it was a little bit of humor (born out of a very interesting way of a child thinking---the point of the post in the first place).

You are both such lovely people. Malika dont leave, truth is there are so many of us, we wont always see eye to eye. I think there are many here who can be your soft place to land, including Janet. You are going through a hard time all on your own. I would miss you dearly if you were not here.

This post is a huge risk for me, I have told you all before how I panic and dont handle conflict well (internally, outside I actually do well in my life). This is probably not even my place, but I sincerely do care for you all so much.......

 

[Malika]

Thanks, buddy, for these peacemakers' (blessed are they ) words...
Well, having just had a meeting with my son's teacher, she too wanted to tell me that I am a great worrier with the implication that I am worrying about nothing... Last time we met, there was talk of an educational team meeting involving the child psychiatrist, school psychologist, school and me... I had heard nothing so wanted to ask about it. Oh, she said, she had dropped the idea because J has made so much progress and is doing so well that she feels it would be unnecessary and she doesn't want to stigmatise him...
What a great gift it is in life to be able to listen to people. This lady does not have it. She is nice enough, but it was impossible to finish a sentence or explain why I am concerned about the possibility of learning disabilities. She doesn't think he has ADHD, she doesn't think he has any learning problems. He is making great progress and doing very well, behaviourally as well as academically.
I felt rather ridiculous at the end. "You like to stress yourself, Mme S!" she said.
So... if I wanted to put my head in the sand (again) and imagine that there is nothing in the world going on for J other than that he is a turbulent, unruly boy like other turbulent, unruly boys, I have been given permission to do so...

 

[InsaneCdn]

Yup.
And if you do so, guess who pays the price?

It ain't the teacher!

(If I had a buck for every time I heard a line like that, I'd be rich)

So, warrior mom. Keep your armour polished. You have time on your side, and you have a pretty good idea of what you are looking for. Those are HUGE advantages. As problems crop up, you have more ammo to fight with. Meanwhile... you're finding things that work at home.

 

[Malika]

Yes. Thanks, IC. I did think of you this afternoon actually, and it went through my mind (one of those wild fantasies one gets) to start talking about Auditory Processing Disorders (APD) and Developmental Coordination Disorder (DCD) to the teacher - not that I know the French for those - and watching her eyes boggle with incredulity at my absurd imaginings... I am glad that things seem to be going okay for J at school and that he seems to be learning, but she said at one point "he is behind all the other children"... So I said, but surely that means something because his intelligence has been tested and it's normal so why would he be behind? She then talked about his bilingualism but I don't think that can account for these things. There are just odd things going on for him - when you show him a number, for example, and ask him what it is, he has to count on his fingers before he knows. She laughed about it, but I would think it reveals something.
I'm aware she's doing her best as it is and that schools just aren't set up to have these kinds of competences and that kind of knowledge to see what is really going on. But as I said to the teacher, if there IS a problem, there will come a time when it will be clear and it will be impossible to deny - over the next year or two, I imagine.
Then, after having been told that my son is virtually "like all the others", just a regular kid, when he came home he was having tantrums every time I refused him something unreasonable he was demanding, shouting and screaming at me, kicking my legs... I am aware that it is because he is just so exhausted, but I think it is safe to say that the regular kids are not doing those things when they get home from school.

 

[buddy]

I suspect you are right, certainly they may sometimes, but probably not to the extent that you are experiencing. And you know all the possible factors including his moves, bilingual status etc... you know yourself if it feels like more than that. I think keeping a journal so you dont have to overwhelm yourself with all of the little details (you do that right, was that you??) and then as things come up, you can put things together more readily. IF/when there is a school delay or problem you will have a good record to share.

In the mean time, are you checking out that therapist (would we call him that?) that the psychiatrist recommended? Just curious how that is going.

 

[Steely]

Wow - I have to tell you Malika I had NO idea "sweets" were candy. Here we call anything sweet - well - sweet So perhaps therein lies the confusions! Sweets here are anything from chocolate bars, to cake, pie, milkshakes, cokes, and of course candy.

My best friend from childhood moved to France when she was a young adult. We were both from the good ol South - Texas. "Fixin' to", "ya'll", "I reckon" were normal phrases. So now when she visits from time to time, some of the things she says make me bust out laughing, but she is dead serious. Like calling her underwear knickers.

Hugs - girl. So glad that your son's progress report went better than expected that is huge!!!!

 

[Malika]

Thanks, Steely. Yes, in British English, sweets are just those things you buy at... used to be "the sweet shop" but now? The newsagents' - or, heavens, is that another foreign word? The place where you buy newspapers... I would think "candy" would cover it but now I am not really sure what candy means Stuff that contains only sugar, anyway, and lots of glorious additives probably. When I was a child, you used to go to the sweet shop and buy "quarters" (ie a quarter pound) of sweets that had wonderful names that I now forget that the shopkeeper would weigh out for you from large glass jars. Sounds very Dickensian! These are the things, in any case, that I never buy J...
I don't know how it is that I have got so cynical and hard-bitten but I'm afraid the teacher's assessment that "all was rosy in the garden" doesn't really reassure me. I just have the sense that we are waiting for the real problems to appear in terms of his learning. And I hope very much that my pessimism is unfounded...
Oh - and knickers... what do you call them? We also say "pants" which is for you our "trousers"... Is there an interpreter in the house?

 

[buddy]

undies, underpants, for boys/men can be boxers or other words for the style of underwear. Underwear can mean in general any clothes that you wear under clothes but usually means the bottom under clothes wear. AND...I remember a clerk at Harrods laughing his head off when my girlfriend and I asked where the bathroom was early on.... He asked if we wanted to take baths??? UMMMM ....oh yeah, a toilet or loo please. And of course here we were trying to be speech/language therapists! The kids would have a field day with us! (another expression, they would go crazy teasing us, is it taking the mickey out of us??) because of course we had to learn the right words for truck, how to say water correctly etc. One girl actually asked me how in heck I was going to help her to learn to talk when I couldn't talk myself! HAHA! (our kids were seriously impaired language kids, little words and sounds were the least of their problems, so.....)

 

[Steely]

Sooo....funny Buddy. I should pass this thread to my friend Dana. Yes, the loo was the other word - and here we are in Dallas. I am like - stop asking people where the loo is - they have NO idea what you are talking about. And she called the trunk of my car something weird, can't remember now. Oh - a boot! It took me 5 minute to figure out what she was talking about. She kept talking about putting our groceries in the boot when we were done - I was like what? You mean the trunk? LOL

As for candy - candy is anything hard and rolled or flattened into a shape. Like butterscotch, lemon drops, or peppermints for example. Or like the shop you are talking about - yea - a candy shop. God it has been forever since I have seen one of those, but they used to be around. All other 'sweets' have specific names here like chocolate bar, or whatever. No one really calls sweets "sweets" - unless used as a generalization for an abundance of sugar a child has consumed. LOL

We should have started the thread this way - hehe.

 

[AnnieO]

I did understand the connotations of "sweets"... Perhaps because husband's BFF lives in England. However - someone mentioned additives.

Red 40 is a huge trigger. BFF-H can't have it at all - she vomits horribly with even the smallest amount. So, I make things for her with other colors, or not at all. (Candy canes are a nightmare... IC, where do you get peppermints without red?)

We almost never have red anything in the house, as I despise the thought of trying to clean it. BUT - last weekend Jett went out with bio's friend (I'll call her Mimi), she adores the kids and truly acts as a godmother should. But... He came home with a gallon jug of cheap tropical punch. BRIGHT RED. And his behavior, while not much compared to most difficult children, is off the charts for him. I watered it down after "having a glass" (stuff's horrid, I poured it out when he wasn't looking), and behavior got better. Still awful. But bouncing off the walls just as you described, Malika.

I'm guessing it wasn't the ice cream (unless it was like an ice-cream sandwich, the "bread" has all kinds of nasties in it). May be a teaching moment for him?

 

[Malika]

That's scary. How does one know what contains this red additive? Best to avoid red-coloured sweets... sorry!!! hum, hum, clearing of throat. I mean of course "candy plus".

 

[InsaneCdn]

Candy canes without red... are all over the place here... can't get them WHITE though. While red/white and red/white/green are the most common, green/white are also easy to get.

Peppermints are generally white (some places they are called Scotch mints). Tictacs in different flavors are usually white (we like the "orange" flavor!). After-dinner mints are chocolate with white-mint-filling.

If you want more ideas for other candies that are white or mostly white, let me know.

 

[AnnieO]

In the US, it's listed in the ingredients. I just avoid red stuff.

Years back, and somewhat, even still, enough red to make something red and not pink always tasted nasty to me, anyway. Red M&Ms for instance. Red icing definitely.

 

[Steely]

It should list the additive of red dye on the package. Red dye #40 is the one worst for kiddos, and it is the one that is the most common additive (in tons of stuff, not just candy).

 

[AnnieO]

IC, down here in Ohio, candy canes that are other colors are other flavors, too. Green-and-white are spearmint. Blue = raspberry, red = cherry, pink = strawberry, yellow = lemon, orange = orange, and so on. (And then there are watermelon, banana, and that sort of stuff that should not be hung on a Christmas tree.)

in my opinion, candy canes should be PEPPERMINT. I'd love to get my hands on some plain white ones.

 

[InsaneCdn]

Malika -
The list of ingredients "should" state the actual coloring agents used. At least, that is true for US and Canada. If it doesn't... assume anything "red" is out, and be really careful with "orange" and "purple" depending on the source of the color (something grape-juice-flavored might well be naturally purple...)

Generally, I find it safer to use candies that have shorter ingredients lists. Old-fashioned stuff. Not necessarily good for the teeth, mind you, but not going to throw the rest of the system out. Sponge toffee (or any toffee), salt-water taffy (white is usually available), other such white or tan chewies. Quality chocolates - but not with marachino cherries (usually dyed with something). Peppermints (spearmint is usually dyed green, fewer people react to green than to red). Butterscotch. Old-fashioned "British" fruit drops - the hard ones, like lemon drops and raspberry drops (oh oh, now I'm getting cravings!). Licorice - the old-fashioned types are better. Soft mints - watch for colors, though... some are white, but some are pink which may be a red dye. Chips and popcorn twists aren't "candy", they are more "and such", but for me as a kid, they were a reasonable "instead"... when I couldn't have what the others got, I got chips "instead".

The worst ones are the stuff kids REALLY like... gummies and gummy sours and such, lolly pops, jawbreakers, etc... more artificial stuff than real stuff in most of them!

 

[Malika]

Thanks, IC. A useful list. Trouble is that as I only ever buy J chocolate or the occasional ice-cream, the issue of which candies to buy him doesn't for the moment arise. The question is: how to stop him eating the candies he gets given at school or wherever. Today a good example as it was a little boy's birthday at school and the mother bought in little packets of sweets for all the kids - it was full of pink and red gummy things, among others. Don't know if it made him manic as he we went to roller skating class straight after class and he whizzed round enthusiastically as usual...
I suppose one could start saying "I'm afraid my child is allergic to red dye in sweets" (if that is what it is) and give the refusal some acceptability.