met him for lunch

bluebell

Well-Known Member
I met son for lunch on Saturday and it didn't go very well. We kicked him out 2 weeks ago because he threatened my husband when we approached him about quitting his job and making his (cosigned) car payment.

He had been blowing my phone up saying he was tired of texting and that he wanted to talk to me. Wanted to come by and me bring him out some food. I don't want him here so I said I would meet him. I had some things to say to him too (yeah right).

Well it didn't go too well. He was ok at first, telling me he was moving out of this house into another, blah blah blah but when I started asking questions on logistics, etc it all fell apart. Then he went into a rant on how his father never patted him on the back unless it was after he hit him (! this kid instigated every physical altercation between him and his father, this has been an issue forever, it's almost like he got it into his head every since he started trying to get rid of him that this was how !), has always wished he had just left after he cheated on me back in 2007 (son was 11, I know it got ugly between us but we never really involved the kids, even my daughter attests to that). That he did what all kids do at 13 -sneaking out, drugs, juvenile arrests, school expulsions - and we just overreacted. Doesn't listen to fact that things never got heated because of what he did but how he reacted to the consequences - extreme disrespect and more of the same. Seems to be very bothered by the fact that I make more than his dad, and this somehow makes him less of a man. I don't know where that comes from, I went into this marriage knowing I would make more. Of course, I mentioned getting help for his mood disorder/addiction, but was rejected. He says he is clean but has to leave the house he's been staying at because of all the drugs. Yeah right, he's not clean, he probably owes them money that he can't repay or something. He got that butt-hurt look on his face that means he is going down the victim rabbit hole and I just had to leave.

This is all so ludicrous. I'm not going to sit there and defend his father and say 'oh there there I know you feel mistreated but he loves you so very much'... etc etc. Of course we have made mistakes parenting. Of course we have made mistakes in our marriage. Shoot, daughter's boyfriend has every reason to feel this way with his parents, horrible situation I won't go into here, but basically career criminals and drug addicts. Yet he is the most loving, respectful and grateful person I have ever met at the same age. Go figure...

So now the overwhelming feeling of sadness still prevails, I feel so sorry for my husband. He was adopted and has loved that child fiercely from day 1 as his flesh and blood. All of this hand wringing and mopping up for the last 9 years was for what? For him to hate his dad and keep using me up as a resource it seems.
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
Right off your son was different and extreme in his behavior. All 13 year olds dont do what your son did! That was very serious behavior and required serious discipline. Even my one kid who did drugs did not go that far at only 13. Never, really. None of my other kids ever snuck out of the house or ran away. And juvy? Arrests? Expulsion? That is NOT normal behavior at any age. How were you supposed to react to that??? How would most caring parents react??? Reward him?

Dont ferl guilty for ever being tough on your son. He needed strong parents and still does. He is lucky he didnt live with us lol. If my kid ever actually ran away I would have called the cops! I turned my 15 year old in for drugs and she ended up quitting drugs by 20 ( she was not fun until she quit). We were VERY tough on her. No driving. No money. She worked after school for any extra money. We finally found her having a pill party and made her leave at 19. I had younger kids who were watching. One of them was deeply affected by this and is now a Corrections Officer! She has never even smoked pot. Yes, she would tell us if she had. She knows we wouldnt care and we are very close. My younger son doesnt do drugs or even drink. We had to make out of control daughter leave. It broke my heart but it worked. She quit!

This is not your fault. Your son is a man. He makes his own choices now. Dont let him make tou feel guilty. These days at least half the kids experience divorce. Although it may seem like it sometimes lol not half the teens go off the rails.

by the way so what if you make more thsn your husband??!? That is common today.
 
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DoneDad

Well-Known Member
Sounds like you did the right thing having him leave. If he’s threatening people in the home and getting violent, you don’t really have any other option. He could hurt somebody, or start legal trouble for your husband.

Sorry he’s acting this way. The “poor me” routine gets old real fast. Be sure to take care of yourself and do things you enjoy.
 

bluebell

Well-Known Member
Oh I don't feel guilty at all. Mainly sadness and regret. My husband has been in legal trouble over this behavior. He attacked my husband when he was 17 and husband asked for cell phone because of a rule violation and my husband ended up scratching his face. I called the cops and since son had scratch they both went to jail. Ruined my husband's career, many thousands in fines, probation visits, and anger management classes. Juvie dropped son's charges. I don't know I just don't think we will ever heal from that and many more similar violent episodes.

And yes, I know it was not normal behavior. All of his childhood friends that he abandoned for the more colorful ones never did that. My daughter never did any of that. I'm sure all the dads of his old friends would have ended up in jail too with a kid like that. He was completely off the rails and hell bent for destruction. Obviously he still is. Thank you for your kind words, they really help.
 

Deni D

Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass.
Staff member
Sorry this happened to you Bluebell. I don’t know what it takes for them to accept that they have created the world they live in but until that happens it’s clear they will get no where. The epic blaming is way too much for me right now, I’ve shut down all communication at this point with mine. I don’t think I’ll even read the vile emails any longer.

You tried, and were hoping you could get somewhere, but now is not his time. I tried recently too, didn’t work for me either. Not much left to do but give it to God at this point. I’ve come the realization that if my son is going to stop whatever drugging he’s doing and get back on medication it will have to be without my involvement. I'm the villain in my son's scenario.
 

bluebell

Well-Known Member
Yes Deni. He takes all attempts at me trying to get him to take any responsibility for his actions as an attack on his person. And then proceeds to tell me about all the prior attacks on his person. There just is no getting thru.

This victim mentality is really getting to me. I mean if you think about it, I could make a case for almost everyone I know to make a justified victim speech and use that as an excuse for not trying in life. It's not even the easy way out, seems like a very hard road. But the one he has chosen.
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
For him to hate his dad and keep using me up as a resource it seems.
Bluebell. Hi.

It seems clear that any interaction with him leads down the rabbit hole and engaging with at all brings you down.

His logic is... well...not logical. He is blaming. He is externalizing responsibility. How does anything about the past, justify his bad acts in the present? Of course you are right.

But the thing is: it is hard for us to disengage. There are so many reasons. Guilt. Love. Habit. Fear. Responsibility. And we stay in this (losing) game far, far longer than is good for us (or them.)

You are doing the absolutely right thing raising these questions, and putting it down in black and white. This is how we get the strength and resolve to change things.

I have been here 3 plus years. That is how long it took me to stop. I had to stop EVERYTHING. No contact. No calls. No help. Nothing. Because as I began to set stronger limits, my son ramped up. It became absolutely clear to me that any engagement with him at all, enabled a destructive dynamic to continue. Instead of putting him first, (fear, obligation, guilt) I began to see myself at the center. (At least part of the time.)

You have value. You deserve to be treated well. He is responsible for him. He is gaslighting you. Don't let him.
 

Tanya M

Living with an attitude of gratitude
Staff member
Well you tried and that's all you can do. You were willing to meet him for lunch and he chose to turn it into something ugly. I think he uses the same play book my son useso_O

He takes all attempts at me trying to get him to take any responsibility for his actions as an attack on his person. And then proceeds to tell me about all the prior attacks on his person. There just is no getting thru.
I know this one well. My son is the same way, seams to be content staying stuck in the victim role.

My son is currently finishing up a 2 year sentence for assault with a knife. (it wasn't his fault of course);)
I have sent him a few letters while he's been locked up and have received a few from him as well. I'm usually the one who writes but the last time my husband wrote. My son sent a reply and in that letter he made the claim that I must not love him because I haven't written to him. Whatever!!:rolleyes:
He can live on the streets for years and choose to have minimal contact with me but as soon as he's locked up he expects me to write him every week.
My son has obviously forgotten the hundreds of times I've rescued him.

Yup, they only want to focus on how they perceive things to be and not the actual way things really are.

You do not deserve the way he treated you. My son behaves the same way, always trying to tell me how I should be living my life which is rich coming from someone who's own life is out of control.

My son, like yours have misplaced anger. They don't want to look deep within themselves and take responsibility for their poor choices so they project out to the ones who love them.

Take a few steps back and just breathe. Take time for yourself by doing something fun or special.

:group-hug:
 

BloodiedButUnbowed

Well-Known Member
I agree. Your son is in denial if he thinks that his behavior as a young adolescent was normal. Even for a difficult child, his issues were extreme.

YS is also very perturbed by the fact that W makes more than his dad. DS never seemed to care that much but YS seems to feel that it's his job to stand up for/protect/defend their father. YS has a very weak sense of his own masculinity and he knows that of his two biological parents his mother is much stronger - that is plainly obvious to all. I think that has bothered YS very much and continues to bother him. It is just interesting to me that your son seems to be concerned with some of the same things.

Keep us posted. I am sorry your son doesn't seem to have any insight. Sounds to me like he's trying to win you over, so you'll keep enabling him. Stay strong!
 

Wish

Active Member
Well it didn't go too well. He was ok at first, telling me he was moving out of this house into another, blah blah blah but when I started asking questions on logistics, etc it all fell apart. Then he went into a rant on how his father never patted him on the back unless it was after he hit him (! this kid instigated every physical altercation between him and his father, this has been an issue forever, it's almost like he got it into his head every since he started trying to get rid of him that this was how !), has always wished he had just left after he cheated on me back in 2007 (son was 11, I know it got ugly between us but we never really involved the kids, even my daughter attests to that). That he did what all kids do at 13 -sneaking out, drugs, juvenile arrests, school expulsions - and we just overreacted. Doesn't listen to fact that things never got heated because of what he did but how he reacted to the consequences - extreme disrespect and more of the same. Seems to be very bothered by the fact that I make more than his dad, and this somehow makes him less of a man. I don't know where that comes from, I went into this marriage knowing I would make more. Of course, I mentioned getting help for his mood disorder/addiction, but was rejected. He says he is clean but has to leave the house he's been staying at because of all the drugs. Yeah right, he's not clean, he probably owes them money that he can't repay or something. He got that butt-hurt look on his face that means he is going down the victim rabbit hole and I just had to leave.

I'm just wondering, while I support keeping very firm boundries regardless of past mistakes we made as parents, does that mean we should not try to atleast make amends and help our children deal with the problems they suffered because of our mistakes? Helping them emotionally. Not physically or financially.

When I read this part of your story Blue, it struck a chord with me. I will explain why. It's a whole long story but I will try to make it as short as possible. My brother is a very abusive man. Very abusive. His wife (not really married but been together for 10 years but I am just going to call her wife because writting babies mama is too many words) is also very abusive in different ways and while you didn't mention abuse and only cheating, I think this might still be a similar story. A story in my own family that breaks my heart.

My brother and his wife have two children together. My nephew is 9 years old now has witnessed more than any child should have to witness, but my brother and his wife swear that he doesn't see most of it. Even if he didn't see it most of it, which is completely untrue, because he does in fact see all of it, children know all. They know exactly what is going on, no matter how much you try to hide it. Actually, the more you hide it, the more they know.

Anyway, my nephew love his mother so much, so , so much. He loves his Mama, period and I don't think she sees it because she is too imersed in the dysfunction of her relationship with my brother. Actually, I think she does see it , but chooses not to care. My nephew as a young child and much younger than the age of what your son witnessed, witnessed his mother being treated like total trash by my brother. My nephew naturally took his mother's side and tried to protect her many times (just picture a young boy trying to protect his mama) what would happen was, my nephew got severely punished for that. She took his father's side over her son's side when all he was trying to do was protect her. This has broken my heart and continues to break my heart. Up until 2 months ago, I have been like a third parent in my niece and nephews lives. Babysitting them, taking them to school and games. Taking them to the doctors. I have been heavily involved in their lives.

This is a huge gripe that I have with wife and she knows it. I use to feel so sorry for her until after 8 years, I realized she was just playing me to get sympathy and use the fact that I would side with her to rub into my brothers face. She was just much as part of the toxic relationship as my brother. She had me convinced she used to stay with him out of fear and that was such a big joke. She abuses my brother just the same. Not to mention she was disrespectful to me and was so nasty to me many times as she is to others. She is very rude. She has a bad attitude but knows how to extract sympathy and play the victim. She loves to start fights with people, me included and so does my brother. They are those types of people and that's when they bond the most is when they team up and bully somebody and they would do that to me a lot. They are addicted to their relationship, their dysfunction and pulling people into it like myself to try and take their side. They even pull their own kids into it, including my middle nephew that we are talking about. The only reason why I am telling this part of the story is in case anyone decides to have sympathy for her and starts to make excuses for her because I did that for 8 years and I have to go to therapy for that because used and abused me. I did everything for her and she and my brother would attack me and bully me oftenly.

Bluebell, I just want to be clear, I am no way comparing that part of their story to yours. It was information that had to be given because I knew I was going to be asked or made to address it so I thought I would get it all over with, with one shot.

Ok now back to the point at hand. While your sitaution doesn't seem at all to be as extreme as my family's situation, it still is pretty bad. It is very hard for a little boy to see his mama get hurt. It must have really hurt him to see his own father hurt you the way he did by stepping out of the marriage to cheat on you and it must have really hurt him when you decided to stay with him. It must have made him feel you choose your husband over him, your son, the one who loved you so much and just wanted to protect you. I can only imagine how that must have made him feel. Again, the reason why I am so tunned into this is because I have witnessed this, with my nephew trying to protect his mama for 9 years and it has definitely made him act out. I can write a whole book on it on how much it has devestaed him and myself as an aunt watching in being powerless to help this little boy who is my blood. I often wonder what his future is going to be like and I know deep in my heart, one day they are going to have the conversation "Mom, why did you stay with him??? Why are you still with him with how he has treated you???? I defended you and loved you and you still choose him over me!!! I would have protected you!" and he would have every right in the world to feel like that. And sadly, knowing her, SHE still stay with my brother which in essence, will make my nephew feel like she has chosen his father over him. And I know that's when his life is going to fall apart. I have seen the future ever since he was born. I can only hope that he seeks me out and I can help him in any way because my brother and his wife have casted me out of their life because I couldn't take their drama anymore and it's been killing me ever since because I love my nieces and nephews like they were my own children.

Now I want to be clear before anyone jumps down my throat (yikes) that in no way shape or form should you tolerate his abuse or allow him to come back home. I would be passionately against it! I am just wondering if you could help him with some of his issues regarding your husband, his father. It must be burdening him more than you know.
 
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Wish

Active Member
And oddly enough, this same thing happened to my daughters father it's just been so long, 20 years ,that I forgot to mention it. He and his mother would fight all the time about his father. It severely depressed my daughter's father that his mother was still with him. They (my daughter's father and his mother) would fight all the time about his father, her husband. All. the. time. It was a huge, huge problem in their lives. He (my daughter's father) wound up taken his life and a lot of it had to do with that situation. I don't mean to use such sad examples but the reality, it's the truth. Son's hurt when they witness their mother's get hurt, especially by their fathers. Son's really do hurt badly and it is an epidemic in this world that needs to be addressed.
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
one day they are going to have the conversation "Mom, why did you stay with him??? Why are you still with him with how he has treated you???? I defended you and loved you and you still choose him over me!!! I would have protected you!"
Wish. The very sad fact is that it would take years and years of therapy, likely, for nephew to gain the acceptance of what his real needs were (and are), the betrayals by both parents, and the reality of how he was treated.

Unfortunately. What we do as children is just what nephew is doing. We side with them. We blame ourselves for their neglect and hurtfulness to us. We must be very, very bad little boys and girls for them to punish us so severely, to neglect us as they do. We side with them, against our own interests. Because it would be too, too scary, impossibly terrifying for your nephew to really see the reality of his life and how utterly alone and unprotected he is. Better to feel order in his world, by shouldering the blame and responsibility. That they are that way because he is undeserving of better.

And the worst thing is he believes this about himself. This will define how he meets the world as a young man. Either with a chip on his shoulder, or a victim. Or both. If he is anything like me, it will take time and work (like a lifetime) to get an understanding and acceptance of his true story. That is the real damage. The cover stories he will tell himself. And how he will live them in the world.

His is a very sad story. I am sorry. I hope I am wrong.

by the way. I think you did the absolute right thing to speak the truth and to separate yourself from the parents. That in itself demonstrates to the kids an alternate road. Soon the children will be old enough to seek you out independently from their parents.
 
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Copabanana

Well-Known Member
does that mean we should not try to at least make amends and help our children deal with the problems they suffered because of our mistakes? Helping them emotionally.
Yes.

The thing is this: most of us that come here are terrorized and heartbroken to the extent that we have abandoned ourselves.

I will get back to this later but here's a start:

I think we each of us had an implicit idea of how our kids life trajectory would work. (Right or wrong, this is the case.)

It did not work out that way.

We try and try and try. We talk. We push. We pull. We demand.

Nothing helps.

We may get mad.

They blame us.

Nothing helps.

We crash and burn.

They blame us.

We blame ourselves.

They use us.

They manipulate us.

They frighten us.

We set limits. Poorly, at first.

They push. They gaslight us. They disrespect us.

____

By the time we finally have some space to really begin to look at what happened, how we contributed to the cycle, how they were affected by our parenting, our personalities, the legacy of our own life as a child, our parents, our failings and failures, omissions and commissions, WE ARE COMPLETE AND UTTER WRECKS. And we even see them as perpetrators. At the very least, if they are out of our house, or have made distance, we are relieved.

There is no room for dialog. No possibility of conversation.

Because by the time the container ship begins its turn, there is no turning back.

____

It is utterly tragic. Because there is no terrain on which to repair. It is like All Quiet On the Western Front. A no man's land. Just wreckage. And bodies. And smoke. And burnt trees. And dead. Animals. People. Nothing. Nobody is left. Just devastation.

There is willingness...but no means. I was going to say it this way: It is not that there is no willingness to repair....but I was on my way to a double negative and I did not want to end up on CNN.

I know I made mistakes. I know that some other mother could have done this better. I would do anything in the world to work with my child to have reconciliation, reparation. But I cannot.

Him. Me. Both of us for so long could not "work" together. Not for lack of love. Or wanting. Just because that was how it was.

I am saying that I do not know how to do, what I believe I owe my child.
 
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Copabanana

Well-Known Member
very firm boundries regardless of past mistakes we made as parents
You see. (Speaking for myself only. I did not make that clear.)

At first I detached because I believed it would have a result for him. I did not really get the idea of boundaries or detachment. I thought it was a manipulation technique to get him to live in the way I thought was best for him.

It is only after years that I understand that boundaries protect ME. That I have an independent value, apart from him. That while it matters that he does better, it should not matter more than I matter to myself.

I came to see that because I did not act or think from this central construct, my lack of self-interest or self-sacrifice, if you will, could be a contributing factor in the whole dynamic. He was the power center. Not because he asserted power, but because everything revolved around him. His happiness or effectiveness became in a sense, my g-d. I worshiped at his altar. I trained him to be the way he is. I see it. I am not blaming myself, but I see it.

But the thing is. My son is acting badly. He is living badly. That remains the main event. He treats us badly because he treats himself worse. Is this related to my own treatment of myself? I do not know.

I lost track of my point.

The question I have is this: if there is an abuse of power, how do you make relationship, if the other person does not recognize you as a separate person of value, does not respect themselves enough to demand conduct worthy of self-respect, and is not responsible in their relationship to you or to themselves? How do we do this, is what I am asking.

The very firm boundaries are no longer FOR THEM. They are not "good parenting 101."

They have become survival. They have become ME FIRST. Not just me first, but me with you away from here. They have become: STAY AWAY from me, because I want to survive. And I want to live a little bit longer.
 
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Wish

Active Member
Wish. The very sad fact is that it would take years and years of therapy, likely, for nephew to gain the acceptance of what his real needs were (and are), the betrayals by both parents, and the reality of how he was treated.

Unfortunately. What we do is children is just what nephew is doing. We side with them. We blame ourselves for their neglect and hurtfulness to us. We must be very, very bad little boys and girls for them to punish us so severely. We side with them, against our own interests. Because it would be too, too scary, impossibly terrifying for your nephew to really see the reality of his life and how utterly alone and unprotected he is. Better to feel order in his world, by shouldering the blame and responsibility. That they are that way because he is undeserving of better.

And the worst thing is he believes this about himself. This will define how he meets the world as a young man. Either with a chip on his shoulder, or a victim. Or both. If he is anything like me, it will take time and work (like a lifetime) to get an understanding and acceptance of his true story. That is the real damage. The cover stories he will tell himself. And how he will live them in the world.

His is a very sad story. I am sorry. I hope I am wrong.

by the way. I think you did the absolute right thing to speak the truth and to separate yourself from the parents. That in itself demonstrates to the kids an alternate road. Soon the children will be old enough to seek you out independently from their parents.

Reading this is making my heart cry. Thank you Copa. I pray everyday that they will seek me out. My door will always be open. I love those kids to no end.
 

Tired out

Well-Known Member
All of the problems on this forum lead back to one word.
RESPONSIBILITY.
NONE of these difficult (now adult) children will take responsibility for their words or actions.
They blame and manipulate us, but take no responsibility themselves. Everything is someone else's fault.
I feel bad that your husband got sucked into the altercations with that son.
When my son said I should leave his father because he would make the rest of my life miserable I told him flat out that he is nuts. I picked his father, 40 years ago and I would pick him again today.
I didn't say it but son was the one I didn't pick. Our children we are handed without knowing anything about their personality. We try to raise them, teach them morals and values. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.
I am coming to realize that no matter what I say our son will do as he pleases and so I must do as I please.
My one way of controlling communication..I block him (on my cell) from contacting me except for 1 hour 6-7pm/per day. That way if he is texting for what ever reason at another time it just hangs and isn't delivered. That way every-time my phone dings I am not thinking "what now?"

I hope things improve for you...
 

bluebell

Well-Known Member
Tired out,
Thank you I didn't know how to reply without defending my marriage or my mothering. Son has never been a protector or had any real empathy, he is an opportunist and manipulator. Funny I told him Saturday the same thing that I would marry him all over again! That the man he is threatening to kill and telling me to leave is my best friend. He takes me to my appointments (I'm not healthy), gets my medications, builds decks, my dream(ish) kitchen, cleans up after my dog, cleans out my pool and happily packs up the car when I need to hit the road. To deny or question our companionship at this stage in our lives is HEARTBREAKING. He would have me alone just so he could gain all of the resources. And that is SICK. I do feel for your nephew Wish and hope he comes out ok despite his treatment, my brother and I grew up like that and my brother still struggles, although never quite the way my son does.
I'm going to follow your suggestion Tired on the hour per day. Does your son know about this and patiently wait until 6 for any response?
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
Funny I told him Saturday the same thing that I would marry him all over again! That the man he is threatening to kill and telling me to leave is my best friend.
A friend who is a psychologist told me to advise my partner M to tell my son this:

Nothing you say or do will make me leave your mother. I will support her, and stand with her, no matter what.

I told M and he said: Well, I have told him over and over, that he is forcing us apart. That if that is what he wants, I would leave if that will make him better, if he could have a better life, be productive, join society--if I got out of the picture. But that he has to show me, first.

So I explained to M, that what he was saying was empowering my son, and was the opposite of what my friend meant. And M told my son what the friend said.

I have no way to know what effect that had on my son, M's words, his empowering our relationship to my son.

But he empowered the relationship to me. To himself. I am only seeing this now but it was after this that I had the courage and resolve to completely cut off my son. No contact. No coming to our properties. No phone calls. I did not want to see or speak to him. And I meant it. He called to me in a shopping center last week, came toward me, and stopped maybe 10' away. I said Hello. Turned around and entered a cafe. Left him standing there. And emotionally it is getting a bit easier. I am not doubting myself.

Don't you think our children need to be pushed out of the nest? I mean, at almost 30? Is this not a biological imperative? To say by words and deeds, go make your own nest. I have my own, and you are not in it. I mean. It sounds kind of cruel. But is it not true? What is wrong with the truth?

Now that you are writing this, both of you, about our relationships and our kids, I am thinking that these kids, AND US, need to hear the primacy of our relationships. And that they do not, is part of the problem. They do not need to understand or accept. Or is the power because we have voiced it to them. And once we voice it, everything changes. In us. We change. That is what I am thinking.

My son tries to divide and conquer. He works us separately. I think there is a jealousy, a resentment, even a hatred of M, for being in the way; taking what is his.

Which is all to say: I think YOU WERE RIGHT TO SAY IT OUT, to say it straight.

I choose him. You make your own life. And then we turn around and walk away.

This is the part I have had such a hard time accepting. Letting go. It is time to walk away. They need to learn to manage how they will manage. There is no place for Mama in his nest. Which he needs to build. Not me.
 
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Wish

Active Member
Tired out,
Thank you I didn't know how to reply without defending my marriage or my mothering. Son has never been a protector or had any real empathy, he is an opportunist and manipulator. Funny I told him Saturday the same thing that I would marry him all over again! That the man he is threatening to kill and telling me to leave is my best friend. He takes me to my appointments (I'm not healthy), gets my medications, builds decks, my dream(ish) kitchen, cleans up after my dog, cleans out my pool and happily packs up the car when I need to hit the road. To deny or question our companionship at this stage in our lives is HEARTBREAKING. He would have me alone just so he could gain all of the resources. And that is SICK. I do feel for your nephew Wish and hope he comes out ok despite his treatment, my brother and I grew up like that and my brother still struggles, although never quite the way my son does.
I'm going to follow your suggestion Tired on the hour per day. Does your son know about this and patiently wait until 6 for any response?

Oh Blue, in no way did I want you to feel that you had to defend your marriage and I'm so sorry I made you feel like that. Remember, I don't know your history so I can only answer with what I do know and I thought I had cover all of the bases. I guess that's why we say, take what you need and leave the rest. There is no way for any of us to know the full story unless we are told (or if we are new to the forums and don't know everyones story). After your explanation, I understand much better. I just know that sons do hurt when their mommies hurt and since I am so close to a situation like that and it's such an open bleeding wound, I was much more sensitive to that part of the story.
 

Tired out

Well-Known Member
[QUOTE="bluebell, post: 738259, member: 16761"
Tired on the hour per day. Does your son know about this and patiently wait until 6 for any response?[/QUOTE]

I didn't tell him. if he calls it rings on his end then disconnects. The texts just say sending, not received until I turn off the block and they can come through. He hasn't asked yet what takes me SO long to answer.. I don't think he will have the nerve to ask that, there have been times that I text him and he doesn't reply for hours. Why should I jump on every communication, he doesn't. I like that I don't know he texted until I turn the phone on. this has been going on for 5 weeks. I have conditioned myself not to think about it anymore, i even set an alert on my phone to remind be at 6 to unblock! I want to condition him not to always contact me just to ask for something.
If he asks I am going to say, "No clue. I don't live for my phone." That's it. I am not going to defend myself not answering. That is a HUGE step forward for me.

The thing is on-line banking has made it much too easy for him to ask me for money, just press a button and I can send 20.00 to his account. Since we have the same bank it transfers pretty much instantaneously.
He is asking less and less. He is working 2 jobs to get on top of things and get his finances in order. BUT with just moving into an apartment there have been things to buy that he took for granted living here. His dad (the guy he told me to divorce--of course i didn't tell hubby that) asked "what does he need?" Dad said, "let's help him with that stuff" so we bought the stuff, we didn't just give money to him.
what is it with these manipulative, self centered people? they only call or text if they want something.
My daughter calls, texts, snap chats, silly stuff, just to say hi! or to ask me if I want to do something with her. Had to go out of town for a family thing a few weeks ago and daughter came over just to hang with her dad, make sure if he needed any help with our disabled son. Dad ordered in dinner and they watched cash cab together . Why can't son act like that?
 
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