Mind games with grandson's head...is his ex crazy or crazy like a fox?


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So ex moved and, after being told by the court that grandson has to go to his current school, she sat my grandson down and told him sternly, "You will only be going to your old school for a few days. Next Thursday YOUR DAD will be taking you to New School. Do you understand?"

Grandson told Bart. He is frightened. Terrified of his mom.

Heck, I don't blame him.

What she told him makes no sense. The court ordered Grandson to go to his old school. There is no action on the legal site. My son was not served with anything more. And this court decision was handed down LAST WEEK.

Is she nutty and playing with my poor little grandson's head and trying to get back at Bart? She is VERY controlling and will not tolerate losing in court quietly. It is really very sick. Or does anyone know if it is possible for this to be in the works? The judge has already spoken. How could she get this turned around? COULD she? They were handed the decision at the court their divorce was finalized in. It was the same judge who said "no" to moving him to a school near her new house. The court order said that the onus was on HER to get her son to the school he is already going to when Grandson is with her, which is by Bart's house. Now she's telling her son that Bart has to drive Junior to school near HER house next Thursday? Really? Says who???? This is messing with my head (seriously).

Anyone ever have any experience with this?

I really have never met anyone as crazy scary as her in my life, and this includes my entire FOO put together...lol. They were mean, but you could understand whay they said and did, at least from their perspective, even if it was skewed. This sounds like ex is plain gaslighting a seven year old boy and there is nothing anyone can do about it.

I have had to deal with G F Gs in my lifetime, and basically have done pretty well with them. This woman is beyond my comprehension. She is not afraid of the courts, the law, and has no regard for them. She does what she wants. She always believes in the end sh e will win. And it's about winning, even if it is hurting her little boy.

I worry so much about Grandson because she is playing with his little mind. Honestly, Bart is a good father. He won't even say anything about Mother to his son. Is he perfect? No. But he's a good father.

Yes, I know I can't control this situation, but I am baffled more than upset. Except that I'm starting to wonder if she is not only a bit off her rocker, but dangerous. To her son. To Bart if he doesn't do what she tells him to do.

This is just not normal.

Sorry. I guess there is really no answer to her, but I needed to vent. I'm literally shaking. She is such a wack job.

Guess we'll know more tomorrow as Bart will call his lawyer first thing in the morning to tell him. But until something happens, there is probably not anything he can do. However, he quick as a whip as soon as something happens so we'll see.

Still shaking my head....
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Dear SWOT/Serenity

I think any loving grandmother would be confused and frightened by this.

A crazy and mean control freak, who is willing to subordinate the well-being of her child to her own machinations? She could be thinking of anything. That does not make it likely or even possible.

Every single thing she does will work against her. She is already known by the courts to be exactly who she is. She is not gaining credibility. She is losing it.

How could anybody think it is in Junior's best interests to start his old school and then to change? Nobody will.

Personally, I hope she does try something. Because that will document one more bad thing she has done that has mocked the authority of the court and that shows she cares little for the well-being of her child. Eventually, she will lose physical custody and just get visitation.

Nobody will think that Junior has emotional safety with his Mother. That is very sad for him. But not for her. Sooner or later he will be safe with his Dad.

Try to relax, SWOT. I do not see anything that threatens Bart's legal position. Just the opposite.

She is nutty. She is scary. She is controlling. She is stupid, grandiose and she thinks she is omnipotent. Try not to worry.


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Thanks, Copa. I just got off the phone with Bart again because I thought of something he should ask Junior. It turns out that what happened was thiss:

Open House was last night and when Junior, who was with his mother. She saw Bart and gave him a smile (which is so odd and usually when she is up to something) and told Junior to say hi to his Dad. Junior broke away from her, ran to Bart and gave him a huge hug and didn't want to let go. This was after the Open House. He didn't go anywhere near his father during Open House because of his mom.

Anyway, later that night, while he was getting a snack, she said, "You're only going to XXXX School for a few days then you're going to New School."

Bart and I figure she is planning to give the finger to the court order and take Junior to this new school, which she was told to un-enroll him in, when she gets Junior back on Monday. She probably still has him enrolled. If she does it, she will be in contempt of court. We both believe she is defiant enough to do it too. Most people are afraid of things like the law, court orders, etc. She isn't. She gets angry and does exactly what she wants. I imagine then Bart's lawyer will do the rest.

If she does it, she is not just crazy, she is very stupid. But nobody said she had a lot of smarts. So it's a waiting game, but Bart has nothing to lose. But I do feel so bad for the little guy being put through the meat grinder.

She had a baby last January and I'm wondering if that kicked up some mental illness. Although she was always a piece of work, she seems to be getting worse and worse.

Thanks again for caring enough to respond. It is hard to be a grandmother during times like this.


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Personally, I hope she does try something. Because that will document one more bad thing she has done that has mocked the authority of the court and that shows she cares little for the well-being of her child. Eventually, she will lose physical custody and just get visitation.

I agree with Copa. Really, just because joint custody is presumed to be in the child's best interest in Missouri doesn't mean it always happens. She's digging her own grave.

She's an evil, manipulative :censored2:, but have you ever heard of her being violent? I mean other than a smack. Yes, it's bad to slap a child, but it doesn't mean you'll abuse them because one time you lost your temper. I suspect she's more the type to simply play games and make people miserable...even her own child, sadly.

Right now, take a deep breath.

I forget how old Junior is. But if he's more than six or seven...I'd tell him the truth if I were Bart. He's old enough to know that a judge issued an order that he has to attend his own school and that order is still in place and for now all he has to worry about is being happy and learning and let Daddy worry about Mom. And that Mom can't change the school unless the judge says so and he doesn't think she will.


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Bart and I figure she is planning to give the finger to the court order and take Junior to this new school, which she was told to un-enroll him in, when she gets Junior back on Monday. She probably still has him enrolled. If she does it, she will be in contempt of court.

We posted at the same time.

She will definitely be in contempt and I assure you, judges do NOT take that lightly. She could lose joint custody if she keeps it up.

I kinda hope she does.


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Thanks, Lil.

He's seven.

Yes, she is head game player big time. She didn't hit him. She did put vinegar on his tongue, which Bart hated and tried to prevent, but she did it on the side too. I don't think Bart feels it's safe to tell his son about what happened in court. He won't do anything unless his lawyer is ok with it and he'll talk to him tomorrow.


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She had a baby last January and I'm wondering if that kicked up some mental illness.
SWOT, she is a jerk. Please do not give her the dignity and cover of a mental illness.

She lost complete control by the custody arrangement. It seems that like my sister she needs complete control to feel stable. That may be triggering to her and she will do whatever it takes to restore it. I would vote that it is the circumstances, not an active mental illness that is responsible for her actions which are ultimately self-destructive.


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Seven is a little young. So yeah, I guess the best thing to do is to just tell him he's supposed to go to his old school and not change and if she changes that, Daddy will do everything he can to fix it.


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Oh, Lil, my son hopes she takes him to New School too.

She was in contempt of the parenting plan when she moved and did not tell Bart about it, as she is supposed to, and did not answer an affidavit that the court ordered her to send. Now this. The judge has already had one round with her. This is the second time. Last time she would not sign the agreement on 50/50 custody. She wanted to go to court. This was even with her own counsel telling her that there is no chance for her to get full custody; that the judge already told him it was going to be 50/50. She finally did, but she bawled like a baby and was very upset. She does not do well with being told what to do, if it is against what SHE wants to do. She was certain she was going to minimize my son to fatherhood only every other weekend. She told him so. She was certain of a win that time.

This time she seems to be taking things into her own hands.


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WHHHHAAAAT??? That is nutty. Why in the world would she do that???

It's kinda like washing their mouth out with soap, only less gross. I knew someone who used hot sauce. That one got them in trouble.

She was certain she was going to minimize my son to fatherhood only every other weekend. She told him so. She was certain of a win that time.

And that's exactly what's going to happen to her if she doesn't cut this crap out.


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he lost complete control by the custody arrangement. It seems that like my sister she needs complete control to feel stable.
This is a fact. She is totally a loose cannon when she doesn't get her way. But lots of it is self-destructive.

She is always shocked when she does not "win", such as get sole legal and major status custody (most time with Junior) in a court, even though Missouri resumes 50/50. She recorded hours of her and Bart on the phone for her bi custody battle and thought because sometimes she could bait him into anger, he'd lose the custody battle, but I don't even think th at was taken into consideration. I'm thinking nobody even listened to her 100s of hours of tapes. He never communicates with her now without assuming she is wired for sound and mostly says "yes." "no."


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She sounds just plain crazy, and not crazy like a fox. I think, perhaps incorrectly, that crazy like a fox is a compliment.

To say this stuff to your own child is emotionally abusive....and just plain crazy, in my humble opinion.


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Thanks, S. She may be both. It is totally insane to ignore a judge's court order, but she is crazy enough to take him to New School when it starts Thursday. Lawyer is aware of her threat and waiting, hoping that she does it. He's a nice lawyer (yes, lawyers can be nice...see Lil :)) and he is worried about Junior when he is under her care. I think he wants a reason to give Bart at least full legal and residential custody and is waiting to see if she actually goes through with it. She is capable of doing it.

She went to school screaming that Junior has to wear his glasses ALL THE TIME, even in gym and at recess. Junior has 20/30 vision and Bart talked to eye doctor who said that's not true. He wasn't even convinced that Junior needed glasses, but mother was insistent.

Junior is afraid not to always wear his glasses.

Bart told the school to just do what Mother said. A teacher expressed concern for Junior if he didn't wear them because Mother was so angry at him.

Yes. Crazy.


one day at a time
SWOT, I am sorry for her terrible behavior with your little precious grandson.

I can only imagine how that makes you feel---furious and helpless I would imagine.

I hope something good happens for him, sooner rather than later, in terms of stability.

Warm hugs for you as well. Just listening on the phone to the latest must be awful!


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He's a nice lawyer (yes, lawyers can be nice...see Lil :))

As with any profession, a few bad apples give the rest a bad name. :) Most lawyers really do sincerely want to do the best thing they can for their clients within the bounds of the law. What's legal simply isn't always what's right.


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SWOT, I'm sorry you're dealing with this right now. Lil has covered the legal aspects so here is my two cents on her behavior. It is WELL beyond Difficult Child and into the realm of hardened criminal. Even the offenders feel guilty when they do something that hurts their child. Doesn't mean they wont do it again, but they are remorseful about it. The only ones who aren't are either psychopathic or are life long, hardened criminals. She will eventually anger the courts to the point of giving Bart full custody. Watch out when that happens as that is the point she will be likely to take the child and disappear. Document EVERYTHING, including what happens at school, and request supervised visits. Sorry, not trying to be the doomsayer here, just know a criminal mentality when I hear it.


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Thanks for both two wonderful members here, Jabber and Lil.

Lil, Bart's lawyer has the rep as a bad a** and he is in court, but he is truly alarmed and worried about Junior. He honestly cares. He's been a lawyer for forty years and I imagine he's seen a lot and he knows who the crazies are. Without saying so, of course, he has made some comments about her that tell Bart she's on the edge.

Jabber, Bart is smart, if nothing else. He never lets down his guard and watches carefully for things like her house being up for sale even before it was. That's how he found out. She wasn't going to tell him. He found out about her intention on unilaterally changing schools too by keeping an eye on her. She IS a flight risk, but there are things she would have to take into consideration.

First of all she ran off with another man who was convinced that Bart had abused her horribly. The dude actually seems decent and we checked on his court records and have checked his family on FB and, honestly, they could be hiding it (and trust me, Bart will keep on eye on everyone) but the family seems to be a simple farm famly, all employed, none touting marijuana or showing themselves while inebriated...they seemm wholesome. She could never afford to leave her brand new house that they bought without her husband agreeing to break the law, leave his family, and take their new child, HIS son, away from his support system.

That does not mean it won't cross her mind, but it is unlikely she'd be able to talk him into it. He is naive and not that incredibly bright, but he is not used to capers like hers. We don't even think he knows she was served and had to go to court. He is out of town a lot.

Although Bart will never stop keeping an eagle eye on her, he also knows two people who live on her block who can tell him if there is any sign of them moving and he knows it is possible, but also knows she will then end up in jail and be caught. She is off the rails, but afraid to do things alone.

Junior helps. He is way above grade level in intelligence (runs in the men in our family...hehe...men only) and he listens to his mom and what she says to his stepdad and is crazy about Bart. Honestly, it's like Bart gave his entire heart to his kid and left a little over for me and ex and that's it, but Junior trusts Bart completely and tells him everything his mother says.

He will be careful. That is all he can do.

Bart will never let her just disappear. The first day he is gone, the police will be notified. We both are thinking he will be getting soul residential and legal custody soon because of her court defiance. Her lawyer has his eye on both and is waiting for her to defy the court order by taking him to New School. When they were in court, both Bart and his ex SIGNED the court order saying he CAN NOT be taken to NEW SCHOOL and must attend Old School and Mother had to provide transportation to and from it. She signed it. Lord help her if she defies the judge. This is her second roll around the block with this judge. He is fair, but follows the law to the letter. She isn't going to be able to cry and melt his heart.

Bart isn't perfect. He has his own mental health issues, like my whole family, but he is incredibly smart. If he hadn't had a bout of his mental illness during his college age years, he would have finished college and there has never been a question about whether or not he is sharp.

I feel really close to Bart when we go through these things for Junior. Even when Bart gets angry because that's what he does when he is anxious. We have a really strong bond during these crisis. Little Junior trusts his "Army" as he named us...Bart, me and his ex. He is truly terrified of his mother.

As for me, I take one day at a time so that I have control of the situation and don't overwhelm myself. I'm taking one day at a time. Until Monday, ex can not break the court order and I have a very busy weekend...working both Sat. and Sun. and then throwing a happy little party for Sonic's birthday with Jumper and her boyfriend, out to eat and gifts after work on Sunday.

It isn't easy to distract yourself when such big stuff is going on, but I can't control it.

And to everyone who cares and gave advice...thank you. Thanks a million times.