my child loves to be the victim - how to reteach?

[agee]

As difficult child gets older his social issues are becoming more and more apparent. When he's with kids he always, always, always ends up getting picked on - teased, beat up, the one on the bottom of the pile, etc. He will push everyone's buttons until they come out swinging. He revels in it.
What can be done to reteach him a better way of being with kids? He pushed my husband's and my buttons, too, but we are aware of it enough so that most of the time - 80%? - we can let it slide/be calm/give reasonable consequence/detach. Sometimes we lose it, but we get better at it every day.
I feel that if his social behaviors continue he's going to end up getting the **** beat out of him. We're taking him out of school (homeschooling) at the end of January and this is one of the reasons why.
Therapies? Books to read? Expert advice?
(he has taken social skills classes at school where they say he is the "model" for the other kids - so it's not like he can't turn it on when he needs to. Private therapy for him has never been successful - in 9 months with our last therapist he basically progressed from answering a few questions to throwing toys around her office and rolling on the floor. Provocative behavior to avoid doing any work).
Love some advice.
A

 

[Jena]

oh sheesh ok my older one, easy child is a "sh*t stirrer" i call her lol. she loves a reaction. she isn't a true difficult child but loves to push buttons and than loves getting ppl crazy. why i dont' know LOL. i just don't take the bait as you guys sound like you aren't either. yet kids aren't going to get that though.

does he wonder why kids do this to him?? does he say whyd' so and so do this? if you explain why does he put two and two together? i bet your answer is no from what you wrote.

i dont' know really i think if it were my kid natural consequences usually nip it in the butt if it's a behavioral thing yet for him that doesn't seem to be working. what if you tried one on one friend things at your house? just do that and steer him away from "group" things? start there. see how that goes than increase the number of kids. if two come and he starts his b.s. than send them home and tell him that beforehand. it's all caues and effect with it i think in my own opinion.

he's striving for attention yet as i've learned and learn each and everyday with my own difficult child always the negative way. sounds like he's got social skills down pat just has to learn how to use his attention seeking for good and not evil.

than if it happens in school sheesh you can't control that one, he's just gotta see ok i pushed buttons and this is what i got. you sure it's not related to his diagnosis, impulsivity control??

good luck hope that helped just kinda thought ok what would i do? i also used to do board games with-rules with-difficult child to teach her patience, control that sort of thing. because her patience level was umm non existant

 

[KTMom91]

Miss KT did the "professional victim" thing in elementary school. Logical consequences are the best teachers, I've found, though you don't want to see your kid beat up, maybe one punch from a peer would help him realize what he's doing.

I'm not a big fan of social skills classes, for the very reasons you mentioned. He knows what he's supposed to do, so he is either choosing not to do the right thing, or he cannot transfer the info from the class to the real world for whatever reason.

 

[smallworld]

How do you know he revels in it? Maybe this is the only way he knows how to interact with his peers at this point?

You say in your signature line that he has a diagnosis of Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD), but he's not on the spectrum??? That doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Maybe he really is on the high-functioning end of the spectrum and needs to be taught social skills. Kids with Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) aren't socially intuitive. It doesn't come naturally to them. So he may need opportunities to interact in the world and be taught the socially appropriate way to act.

 

[Jena]

that all makes sense, yet my mind keeps going to the line that he's a "model" to the other kids clearly showing he does know how to act and interact he's just chosing not to for some reason. natural consequences yea are good too yet the pt is also you dont' want him getting his butt kicked everyday either. id' do the one kid at house approach it's safe, a contained environment not open ended and may give an opportunity for positive interaction and him getting ok clearly this is way better than way i was going!

also the impulsivity adhd thing stood out to me. i know my stepson also is highly impulsive has adhd also and has friends yet often can act jerky and lose kids interest or upset them because he gets revved up and has no idea how to bring it down gets impulsive and acts in ways he shouldnt'. just speaking from experience. either way good luck never easy!

 

[BusynMember]

I don't believe he likes being picked on. No child does. It's horrible; torture (it happened to me). I do believe he is Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) and doesn't HAVE social skills and he needs interventions. I do not know what kind of interventions/help he is getting, but the poor kid really needs it. He is being bullied. He is the victim. It has got to stop. Kids can smell when a child is different and they can be brutal, but most schools have policies against bullying.

If he is indeed on the spectrum, he is not going to learn the way other kids do. Although the neuropsychologist said he's not on the spectrum, Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) *is* the spectrum so the neuropsychologist obviously does not even know what he is talking about. Maybe this wasn't a good neuropsychologist and I'd go for a second opinion. Frankly, in my opinion everything about your boy screams spectrum. And spectrum kids do very poorly in therapy because, even if they have a good vocabulary, they have trouble expressing their emotions in words. I think that may be why your boy throws things and rolls on the floor. I do not believe he is being oppositional or trying to get out of anything. I believe it's his way of coping.

. This is a very young boy who is victimized and he needs help from the adults in his life. He is going to need more than books and a therapist. in my opinion he needs spectrum interventions...good luck.

 

[ThreeShadows]

Hey, Agee, are there any counselors in your area who specialize in foreign adoption issues? Our easy child was 11 mos when we got her to the US and for the longest time she craved negative attention. The surviver types in an orphanage learn to monopolize the attention of their caretakers. That's how they get noticed.

 

[agee]

You say in your signature line that he has a diagnosis of Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD), but he's not on the spectrum??? That doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Maybe he really is on the high-functioning end of the spectrum and needs to be taught social skills. Kids with Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) aren't socially intuitive. It doesn't come naturally to them. So he may need opportunities to interact in the world and be taught the socially appropriate way to act.

Here's the deal with the Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD): I asked our neuropsychiatrist point blank if it meant difficult child was on the spectrum and he said no. This is the best neuropsychologist in our area and the 4th psychiatry practice we've been to in 4 years so I'm not interested in going elsewhere although I can ask them to revisit the diagnosis, which was assigned when we first came to the practice a little over a year ago. He gave him the Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) label because it's not "just" ADHD. It goes beyond. Anyway- it doesn't matter, does it? Because whatever his label is the fact is that he has this problem and this is what I'm asking you all: what can I do to change it? You say he "needs to be taught" social skills - HOW? BY WHOM? His dad and I are perfectly functioning social people and although my son acts okay with adults he cannot deal with kids.
He had a friend over last week and although it was somewhat successful I found it very strange: they spent 3 hours wrestling in the hallway, then they went outside and hit each other with sticks, then the next morning they did it all over again. I don't know what the deal is with the other little boy but this was literally the only thing my child could think of to do with his friend.

in my opinion he needs spectrum interventions

But what are they? How do I get these? He doesn't have this diagnoses right now - is this something he gets with a diagnosis? Or should I just show up at the autism centers with the Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) diagnosis. that's not really a Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) diagnosis? You see my problem...I know he needs more than what he's getting but I have no idea how to get it.
Sorry to sound so frustrated, but school has done jack, the 3 therapists he's been to have been mystified, and getting teased and beat up really hasn't been the natural consequence you'd think it would be.

does he wonder why kids do this to him?? does he say whyd' so and so do this? if you explain why does he put two and two together? i bet your answer is no from what you wrote.

He doesn't wonder and doesn't seem to care. That's the problem. If a child has been teasing him or they've been fighting he's like a moth to the flame. He keeps going back for more. He and I can talk and talk about NOT doing it but it doesn't make a difference. He does lots of the same behaviors with-his dad and me - purposefully doing the wrong thing, lying, breaking the rules, yelling swears at us - to get a reaction. He is going for the reaction. This may not be something he's aware that he's doing - i.e. I don't necessarily consider it a choice he's making - but he still is doing it on purpose, if that makes sense. His dad and I are grown-ups so we've gotten really good at deflecting/not reacting, although we're not perfect. Of course other children are not doing the same thing. I know they are bullying him but in his case he is a lot to blame - again, this is one big reason we're pulling him from school. Hopefully that in itself will help the situation.

I don't believe he likes being picked on. No child does. It's horrible; torture (it happened to me).

I don't know about this. He seeks it out. Which isn't to say he *likes* it but that he's getting something from it. I know he doesn't know any other way to deal with children - which goes back to my original question.

are there any counselors in your area who specialize in foreign adoption issues? Our easy child was 11 mos when we got her to the US and for the longest time she craved negative attention. The surviver types in an orphanage learn to monopolize the attention of their caretakers. That's how they get noticed.

I don't know of any counselors who do this although there are a couple of doctors. I guess I could look around.
I'm just feeling really disheartened. If it's not one thing it's another. Our family hangs out with lots of other families and yesterday a bunch of kids were over and it became clear what the dynamic has become. It makes me worry that we'll have to stop being around all those kids. I talked to them about playing with difficult child to teach him how children were supposed to play but that didn't work too well.
Thanks for the responses.
A

 

[BusynMember]

I don't think he understands that if he acts like X, Y will happen. So he keeps trying...perhaps he is trying to be social and just watching social people is not helping him. He's not picking it up.

Yes, you'd get services with a diagnosis of, say, Aspergers. ADHD, not so much. in my opinion you think he has a behavior problem, but it is probably not intentionally one. As always JMO. Also, even the best psychiatrists make mistakes. My son was diagnosed by a neuropsychologist from Mayo Clinic. He was honest enough to say, "We make mistakes here all the time. All we can do is give it our best guess." Throwing a Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) label on this child, which IS the spectrum, just because "its' more than ADHD" doesn't sound right to me. But, of course, you are the parent. I love second opinions, especially when what the first one said is not working out well.

Good luck!