My dad has lung cancer

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
It's like I'm the only one he won't confide in.
I am sorry, Serenity.
My sister and brother had already figured out he had lung cancer long ago, but he had refused to see a doctor until now
Why did they not tell you? With all of this drama by your sister, why did she not bother to at least let your husband know, when there was contact after your accident?
But this was only a surprise to one person...me.
I hate this for you.

We try to protect our Dad's because that is all we have. When all the time they could have really protected us from our mothers, and did not. They did not protect themselves or us. And that is the reality. They went along with it. I am sorry for you and for each of us.

Your Dad is only doing as well as he can. I am sorry it is not what you deserve, that he cannot do better. You always deserved better and do, now.

He is who he is. I am so sad for us they cannot be better.

COPA
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
Why did they not tell you? With all of this drama by your sister, why did she not bother to at least let your husband know, when there was contact after your accident?
Nobody ever tells me anything. Plus there was no contact after the accident. And my father hadn't been diagnosed yet.

I talked to my Dad...found him still in the hospital. They won't let him go home until somebody can stay with hm. THANK GOD!!!!! Oh, but he sounded so horrible and kept coughing and coughing and I felt like crying, but made myself sound strong and told him all of us wanted to help him. He let me in and told me about needing to have somebody with him before he could go home.

I thought, "Why don't t hey send him to a rehab, like they did to me after my accident????" I didn't say it to my dad. He couldn't talk without coughing. I tried to call my sister, but got no answer. I then called my brother after a loooooooooong time and when he heard it was me, he hung up. Great. Worried about dad much? Anyhow, I love the idea of a rehab as there is no other option. He is way too sick for us to watch, even if Sis and Bro did not work full time. We could not take care of him. We are not nurses. I know Bro and Sis NEED to work. It's not an option for t hem to take off. I know I couldn't do it emotionally or physically. I can barely life twenty pounds since the accident and he needs a lot of lifting. Plus I could never do it alone and I can't leave my husband for a long time, although in my heart I don't feel it would be so long. I just know I'm not the one to do it. I would be afraid I'd hurt or kill him.

I hope Sis calls back so I can tell her about the rehab option. He can think it's temporary. It won't be, but he doesn't need to know. The tears fall now as I write this. Hearing my dad sound so weak...it was hard. I lost my grandmother when I was 37. Not until now did I face losing somebody I loved as much as I love my dad. But this isn't about me. It's about him and I feel so helpless here in Wisconsin.

I am trying to arrange getting to Illinois. This requires two calls: One from Princess so I can ask w hen I can come to her house and stay a few days. The other is from my sister to make sure she will drive me to see him. Weekends are hard. Princess if often very busy and I'm sure Sis has plans too.

All I can do now is wait.

Every time I hear my father's coughing in my head, I start crying again. He was always strong and independent. This is so sad for him.
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
They won't let him go home until somebody can stay with him.
I am so glad you reached him. Of course he cannot go home. Medicare will pay for the Rehab. I remember at least 3 months, and then it can be extended. Have you though about hospice?

I am glad you are going to Chicago. I am sorry you have to depend even a little bit on your sister. If you send me a private message telling me your beginning and ending points where you will go see your Dad I can see if I can help find transportation. If it is not too far, there is Uber.
Anyhow, I love the idea of a rehab as there is no other option.
Rehab or hospice. My mother, when all was said and done liked Rehab. She made friends. The people are nice.
If you are involved in deciding which one, just look around and get a feel.
I know Bro and Sis NEED to work.
Of course home care is not an option. Your Dad would not want it. He will be around people in Rehab. You know what it is like. Almost like a little village.

I am now getting mad here. Nothing was good enough for my Mom. I was with her night and day. In Rehab, her home and my own. Everywhere. She was never, ever left. When M came she would throw a fit. When I went home for Christmas she was hysterical, accusing me of abandoning her.

This will all work itself out. It is already. Take care, Serenity.

COPA
 
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BusynMember

Well-Known Member
I am so glad you reached him. Of course he cannot go home. Medicare will pay for the Rehab. I remember at least 3 months, and then it can be extended. Have you though about hospice?
I have, but I'm not sure my father will go. He is still of sound mind. That's the hardest part, I think. He knows this is happening. I am very sad and nervous tonight. I keep hearing my dad coughing, unable to stop.

I am hoping my sister calls tomorrow because we need to come up with options and present them to our father.

I did not like rehab. I was desperate to leave. It was a nursing home/rehab and a lot of the patients had dementia and I just wanted out. But my father is going to need a high level of care. I do not know if he will choose a good option for himself, but t he hospital will not release him to his apartment if nobody is going to be there with him. I waver and wonder if I should go, but I think I'd be such an emotional mess that it would be bad. Plus, as I said before, I'm no nurse and I'm afraid I'd do something to him that would make things even worse.

I can not make plans to go anywhere until I hear from both my sister and my daughter. So I'm on pins and needles.
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
He is still of sound mind
There are people in hospice with entirely wonderful minds. It is just that their bodies are going and there is the acceptance that treatment will not help and the desire that life not be prolonged if there is little or no hope.
The hospital will not release him to his apartment if nobody is going to be there with him
Good. He probably should not go home. He knows he cannot go home. He is safe in the hospital. Do not worry about that.

Somebody may have to advocate for him. I do not know why your sister or brother is not there. There will be a social worker on staff handling the discharge planning. Jewish Family Service has social workers on staff that will help. Communication between family members, arrangements, talking to your Dad, looking at options.
I waver and wonder if I should go, but I think I'd be such an emotional mess that it would be bad. Plus, as I said before, I'm no nurse and I'm afraid I'd do something to him that would make things even worse.
Serenity, banish the thought that you would take care of him. Even with M here 24 hours a day with me and 3 other people helping me, it was more than I could do. You would be away from your family, your support system your home.

That said, you may need to go to find a rehab or hospice if your brother and sister do not come through. But I think the social worker at the hospital with a social worker from Jewish Family Service could do this. Many people have no family at all.

Serenity, there is no pretty way to die, at least usually. The doctors should be giving your Dad something to help him with discomfort, probably morphine. You might ask about it. Your Dad is strong. He knows the score. He is OK. He needs you to be. That means taking care of yourself.

COPA
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
Good morning, Serenity

I am thinking about you. We are all here. I hope you check in early so by the time I get up you will have have posted.

COPA
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
Copa, yes, I'm up early with coffee already (sigh). Your post was very comforting to me. It's true that my father is as safe as possible in the hospital. I had thought of that, but still felt guilty that he is there and I am here. Your post helped. I know you have gone through this and are still in pain about your mother. I am so sorry, but do not think I could relate to how you felt before now, although I did try. See...I did see my mother die. Well, not SEE, but know about it. But it did not affect me the same way it does most people who lose a mother. I had lost her years and years before her death and did not feel this aching emptiness toward her passing that I already feel for my father's illness. I had mourned the loss of a mother when she was still alive...I hope that doesn't sound cold. I am ever so sorry if I ever sounded as if I lacked empathy for your feelings. This is my very first huge loss since my grandmother died and in my grandmother's case it was fast and unexpected and in my opinion it was better that way for her. And for me (selfish, I know).

Your ideas are good. I will f loat them to my sister, although she may have already broached Dad with them. Or my brother may have.

In the rehab I stayed at after my accident, some of the patients had hospice nurses come in. Maybe an actual hospice will seem too final for my father. I do believe he would enjoy t he company at a rehab. He likes to be around people.

I am going to try to go back to sleep, but you know...probably a losing battle.

Very big hugs and thanks for everybody here who has helped to give me strength and comfort. It will not be forgotten.
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
Copa, can anyone make a decision for my father if he won't consent? I believe my brother is POA, however my father is of sound mind and I know he has declined everything my siblings have suggested to him. Yet he can't go home. I also will float the idea of a social worker, but that may have happened and he may have been uncooperative with the social worker too. I did not know about Jewish Family Services. I will bring that up, if he has yet to see a social worker. I think he may listen to somebody from there more than just a hospital worker, although where he is...there are probably Jewish social workers.

Thanks again.
 

Scent of Cedar *

Well-Known Member
First, I would not trust what your sister tells you.

Or what she tells him, Serenity.

You don't know what the sister is telling the father or the brother.

My sister lies as easily as breathing. That I refused to believe she could be lying only made it easier for them. Like you Serenity, I began questioning and attacking myself to justify what they were saying and doing. It was all so crazy, and so wrong.

You are a fine woman.

Very strong.

And we are right here.

This is the horribleness of our families. We jump to the worst, based upon our histories with them. How could we do otherwise? Your our handling it well. Watch football. What else can you do?

Yes.

And pray. Remember that prayer Ann LaMott writes about? "Help!" "Thanks!" "Wow!"

If he wanted me in his last days, he'd contact me. Right now he is well enough to at least call me today, as he promised, to let me know where he is and how he is doing. But he hasn't.

I'm not jumping to conclusions yet. I am waiting to see what happens. That's all I can do is wait. And wait. Because he won't tell me anything.

I am puzzled, yet it figures, ya know?

Your situation will be different than mine. I like the way Copa sees and is thinking. But: My father's final illness occurred in the area where my sister lived. After his stroke, she was given (or did she take) responsibility for contacting sibs and keeping lines of communication open. Lies were told. A weave of lies, Serenity. When confronted regarding the no info/conflicting info pattern she was setting up, Sister hung up on us and broadcast that we had been rude, demanding, and had hung up on her. It was all so weirdly, wickedly crazy-making that we didn't know what to think. We concluded that, though we might have been rude and had certainly been demanding, we had not hung up on her.

That was the one fact that we knew.

Had my sister not hung up on us?

We wouldn't even have known that much. That is how well and convincingly they lie. She believed her own series of fabrications so deeply that she has, over the years that have elapsed, cast herself into a martyr's role even as she continues manipulating the situation.

There is no win, in our situations, Serenity.

It is what it is.

***

It got worse, and more crazily complex, the longer it went on. When my father died, the true craziness began. And I have posted about that here.

Serenity, as Copa suggested too, I want you to stop beating yourself up on any level. No family is meant to function this way. No daughter is meant to be away from her parent ~ away from the parent's wisdom or the parent's love, or from holding strong for and loving and witnessing the parent's life.

But in our dysfunctional families that is exactly how it is done.

Until you speak to your father, hold faith with yourself, Serenity. You do not know what he is being told. What you do know is that someone painted a picture for him. The picture represents you as too fragile to cope. Whatever you do ~ anything you do that is not rock solid will only validate that lie that you are too fragile.

Stay steady state, Serenity.

Find a beautiful card that expresses your feelings for him. Send it with your love, tell him you miss him, ask him to call. No regrets, Serenity. This is not about the sister.

Kindness and honor to your father, now.

Kindness and honor to yourself, now.

This time is for loving and remembrance and preparation.

Nothing to do with the sister. That is why the card. Direct contact between yourself and your father cannot be twisted into something ugly in a card.

***

I was never to see my father, again. I have posted here about the machinations and contortions and wickedness in the things that occurred in my family of origin after my father's death.

Don't let them twist you, Serenity.

You are a fine, fine woman.

You are very strong.

I am sorry this is happening but I am not surprised.

You must not be surprised at anything that happens next either, Serenity. You do your personal best through this time. Do the next right thing.

Cedar
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
Copa, can anyone make a decision for my father if he won't consent?
It depends. The power of attorney/advanced care directive addresses when a person can no longer due to their mental state make good decisions themselves. Depending upon the stipulations, 1 or 2 doctors write letters that your father's decision making capacity is impaired, temporarily or not.

If he is still making good decisions then nobody can take away his power to decide for himself, nor should they. I resisted for the longest time taking over. Of course I already had but I wanted to keep the illusion that my mother was still in control. I think I was careful because of the way my sister is, (taking over everything, like it or not.) The hardest thing I ever did was have the power to make care decisions for my mother. Had M not helped me I do not think I could have done it.

I think Jewish Family Services is the best idea. They will work with the hospital social worker, your dad, your siblings and you. They will know all of the options and know all of the emotions involved. I think they would be a good buffer. The person will probably be a therapist. The social worker at the hospital advocates for the hospital, not the patient. They are discharge planners.

I wish I had done Jewish Family Services. I called but could not get it together. There is no JFS where I live only where my mother lived.

Serenity, I do not feel good today. I am not going to be on the computer much. Cedar is working and says she will check in in a few hours. Others are here.
Please take care of yourself.

COPA
 
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Copabanana

Well-Known Member
When confronted regarding the no info/conflicting info pattern she was setting up, Sister hung up on us and broadcast that we had been rude, demanding, and had hung up on her.
She believed her own series of fabrications so deeply that she has, over the years that have elapsed, cast herself into a martyr's role even as she continues manipulating the situation.
All of this could have been written about my own sister.

COPA
 

New Leaf

Well-Known Member
Serenity, I think Copas advice is very good. My dad had a "spiritual adviser" in hospice. He was unable to communicate his feelings to family. He had always been a very private person, stoic.
I was able to talk with her over the phone, and she shared very comforting things with me and shed light on the process dad was going through.
It is a very difficult thing for family to go through when a parent is diagnosed with a terminal illness. We all go through our own stages, dealing with it.

What I am realizing, is that my father became even more private, and was intensely reviewing his life. He lived for six years after diagnosis, and turned his thoughts even more inward. He was very close to my brothers daughters, I am grateful they added a spark to his life and filled his heart with joy. I truly think they helped him live longer.
It was an especially hard time for me, being 6000 miles away. I could only rely on reports from my brother and sisters, and mom, to know what was happening with dad. I am glad they kept me informed, it was a way I could " be there."

We do not have a lot of money, travel is quite expensive, I worked and also had kids to care for as well as all the stuff that was going on with my two, and the grands.
I visited when I could, a lot, too much. It was never enough for me, really, but truthfully, it was over extending. Turned out, when dad finally entered hospice ( for the third time) he passed while I was here. We called dad the miracle man, he went through a series of health issues that we all thought "was it". Then bounced back. Even the doctors were amazed.

I am glad dad had the care he did, in the end. According to this very kind lady who sat with him and listened to him, he had a lot of things to work through, before he passed.

Though my father probably would not have sought this sort of help on his own, having someone there who was not family, who he could confide in, was very comforting and helpful to him.

I hope you can find something similar for your dad and family. I think it would be very helpful for everyone involved.

(((Hugs)))
leafy
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
Maybe an actual hospice will seem too final for my father. I do believe he would enjoy the company at a rehab. He likes to be around people.
Well, hospices have people, who work there, specialize in hospice, end of life care, and people who want to accept dying, not fight it.

I have never visited a hospice but I have seen one on TV (Holiday Inn Express Commercial--that is a joke.) It looked so peaceful. Very zen-like. I never before thought I wanted to go to hospice, but I think I might, if M is not here.

There is also home healthcare, paid for by medicare but it is visiting nurses, not round the clock.

I hope you check in and tell us what is happening.

COPA
 

New Leaf

Well-Known Member
I hope you feel better Copa. Serenity, I am glad you have a plan. Have a good day watching football. Going to plant some veggies and herbs and marigolds, and root for the Pats......
leafy
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
thank you, Leafie.

Hehe, I hate the Pats, but if they win I'll be a little happy just for you ;) I'm hoping for a Broncos/Panthers SB. So far this game has been good. It's half time now so I took a break.
 

GoingNorth

Crazy Cat Lady
SWOT, if he can be moved, or if he's in a larger metro area, there might very well be a Jewish nursing/rehab center available.

In fact, my raised Catholic, atheist BFF was in a Jewish nursing home before she died. The care was fantastic, and the food, according to BFF, was pretty good, though she kept calling me to ID "strange ethnic objects" that found their way onto her lunch or dinner plate.

"It's a knish. Eat it. It's good for you."
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
SWOT, if he can be moved, or if he's in a larger metro area, there might very well be a Jewish nursing/rehab center available.
This is a fantastic idea. I am not sure though if they take people with terminal illnesses. If they do, and he wanted it, it would be the best of all options, I think. In my state they are called Jewish Home for the Aged. I am certain there is one in the Chicago Metro. I know your Dad is Jewish but it is not a requirement.

COPA
 
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