My DS is trying to get expelled from school

[hersheyb79]

I haven't been on in a while...mostly because DS is constantly in so much trouble I can't get on the computer.

Today his teacher sent home a note saying "DS said he wished he had a gun to bring to school and shoot everyone." My DS is 6. We do not own guns, nor do we watch violent TV. We don't even have a video game system, he's never good enough to get on the computer, but when he is able to get on he's only allowed on sites like PBS kids & nick jr. I have no idea what the *bleep* is wrong with him. He's been having a nearly impossible time controlling himself over the last few weeks.

We were doing better before spring break, he was getting regular good reports. During spring break we found out husband's job is being transferred so we have to move at the end of the school year. Then when we got back to school they had a new kindergartner in the SIED class at his school, so now DS is no longer the little one of the class. It has all culminated into a gigantic flaming pile of dog poo.

Thank GOD no one took him seriously at all, especially considering I live in the Columbine area. I just don't know what to do. I got him in for an "emergency" appointment with his PDR...on Tuesday. That's a long time to wait in my opinion.

I'm considering just taking him to the ER and having him admitted. He screams at the top of his lungs all the time. Yesterday he was just yelling, so I had to take him outside to just yell. He's getting too big to control. I don't know what else to do...but obviously we need more help than we are getting.

 

[Malika]

Oh yes, thank goodness the school was sane enough not to take him at his word..,
Sorry things have got so difficult. Is it related to the changes in the air in any way? Do you know what school he will be going to when you move and are you happy with it?
Really hoping you get some help on Tuesday. Hugs.

 

[Bunny]

Did you take him to the hospital? What did they say? Did they admit him?

 

[BusynMember]

What is DBD-not otherwise specified?

Thank God they didn't take him seirously!

 

[buddy]

What is DBD-not otherwise specified?

Thank God they didn't take him seirously!

is that disruptive behavior disorder???

 

[buddy]

hershey, my son has said stuff like that too, and I want to push you down the stairs (in a school with no stairs AND he got suspended for that in grade K!!! at a school designed for kids with brain injuries, lol, so dumb).... even now he will obsess about stuff like that. I block news and such things but when we were little and people didn't over react to every single thing a kid said about a weapon, this kind of comment was made a lot by kids. They dont know the seriousness of what a gun does, dont understand the permanency of death and how it affects so many people, etc... it is just a statement of frustration and wanting to solve their lack of power over things, and I am grateful the staff did not take it seriously in that sense. His overall issues clearly are serious.
I dont remember, I know you are evaluating things, have you had a neuropsychologist evaluation yet??? Have all the developmental/neurological possibilities been ruled out yet? Yeah, clearly he has behavior issues, but why I am sure is your big question, right? My experience with the ER is that if there is a threat of violence or harm then, yes, he may go in....maybe others have different views though since I have only had to do it a few times.

My experience of the hospital is thank God it is there, but it is not optimal since they mostly look at what is going on in their presence and dont put the big picture together like a neuropsychologist evaluation does. Kids dont act like themselves necessarily in the hospital....either worse or often, much better so the diagnosis can be based on skewed perception. But there are exceptions and some really good people who can get to the heart of things, you just have to monitor and judge for yourself if you feel it is right. There are people here who have not had my experience and got much better diagnosis from being in the hospital setting. If he is out of control and you are worried it is the best place for him to be of course. Nothing is easy which really stinks.

I am so sorry this has been so intense and now you have this big transition too. Will send good vibes for you to have some answers soon.

 

[TeDo]

Making that comment is not enough to take him to the ER if there wasn't any action to back it up. What kinds of problems are you having besides the yelling you just mentioned? Is he on any medications? If he is, they aren't working or can even be causing some of the stuff. If he isn't, maybe he should be.

Glad the school saw it for what it was. difficult child 1 blurts all kinds of things "I'm want to kill him" or "Next time....." in the heat of the moment, ususally when his anxiety & frustration are super high and COMBINE. For him, they are just words so we ignore them. Good thing he's never said them out in public. THAT would be a huge problem....given our ignorant police department.

Hope Tuesday's appointment is productive.

 

[keista]

First and foremost ((((HUGS))))

Second, I truly hope we are all just happy that the school didn't "take him seriously" in the sense of suspending him. Otherwise, I do hope that everyone involved in this child's care take everything he says quite seriously. Yes, obviously, these words are coming out of a place of illness for him, but if he looses impulse control, he most certainly may act out on such a wish/statement.

Tuesday is a very long time to wait. It's a horrific catch-22. psychiatrists say if it's that serious take them to the ER. ER looks at the parents like we're the crazy ones because the kids are not an IMMEDIATE danger. So we wait, hoping and praying that there is someone or something out there that can help our precious child.

(((((HUGS)))))

 

[hersheyb79]

No, no neuropsychologist yet. We are still on the wait list, I doubt we'll get in before we move. I'm kind of hoping that the wait in Indiana will be shorter given that it is a less populous area. Of course that could make the wait longer because there will be less services available.

Did you take him to the hospital? What did they say? Did they admit him?

Do you know what school he will be going to when you move and are you happy with it?

No, there wasn't enough to take him they said. Every time he has an outburst like this I call Children's and have them document it. As of right now they are telling me they don't have enough to move him up the list. It's really frustrating because what exactly does it take to move him up!!!

We have to do a house hunting trip in a few weeks, so I don't know where yet. What I'm finding is that SIED isn't a term used everywhere??? I thought it was...but when I go to school district websites for the area we're moving to I don't find the term used and I can't tell what an equivalent term would be...even my Dad who teaches in the area had not heard it until DS was put on his IEP.

Has anyone ever tried to get their child qualified for SSI. If he was on Medicaid I'd be able to access a whole psychiatric hospital that I can't right now with our insurance. Someone else was telling me that if SSI doesn't think they have enough to qualify him or his diagnosis is iffy that they will send him for an evaluation that will dial in his diagnosis. I'm worried about the stupid DBD diagnosis in an area that is so much more rural. People don't understand it here...how will they understand it there.

 

[keista]

What does SEID stand for?

I was told that when you apply for medicaid, they do their own testing. You cold tell them he's got one thing, but they test and can approve him fro something else entirely. Not that it usually happens that way, but it can. And yes, I've been advised that applying for medicaid my a be a cheap way of getting a more detailed diagnosis.

When you move, look into the state insurance program for kids. It may give you more insurance options. Here there's a sub-program for kids who have chronic conditions, including behavioral/emotional ones.

 

[buddy]

He does not need SSI to be on medicaid. They are different programs. One can support the others because of the evaluations but until you get a diagnosis. of a permanent disability you are likely to be denied, esp. for ssi. I WOULD however, call the county once you move and say you have a disabled child and you would like case management to help find funding etc. They should be able to help you apply for any program that will benefit you. If not, ask for someone to consult at least to help you find all the programs available. Usually there is at least a childhood mental health program, but I really suspect there is far more going on with your son and it just has not been sorted through yet.

If you can, set up a full Occupational Therapist (OT) and Speech Language Pathologist (SLP) evaluation while you are on the wait list for the neuropsychologist when you get there. Taking those results to the neuropsychologist then allows them to use those results in their analysis. The testing they do is not as indepth in those areas.

As to the local term for his Special Education program the letters used do vary. Say that he is in a special education class for kids with emotional and behavioral disorders, (is that right???) sometimes it is called EBD, sometimes ED sometimes what you use etc... so uses the words not the letters. That should help.

My son was in a CIP class (communication and interaction program) our district also had CID which was communication and interaction disorders...the difference was severity of communication disorder CID being far less verbal but BOTH were autism programs. The district I worked in just had an Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) class.

On the IEP the category he qualifies under is what will determine what type of program in the district and the level as well (level II, level III, level IV, etc... that says how much time is spent in a special education class...is it just gen ed with support, or is he in a class and leaves at times, or fully in a sp ed class but in a typical school or in a separate sp ed school.....the highest level is residential.

So check to see how he qualified, was it emotional and behavior disorder, autism, developmental disorder, other health impairment etc.... (I think you are saying it is the em. behav. disorder, right?).....

It really IS frustrating that what is clearly so interfering with life is not severe enough to push people higher in lists....given all the kids are pretty much in chaos I guess it is somewhat understandable but it is still frustrating. Unless he is really hurting others, hurting himself, etc... it is not an emergency (to them). Of course as parents that is so hard to deal with because our lives are totally disrupted and sometimes falling apart.

I hope you keep in contact with us at least to know that we get it, and can give you some support to keep hanging in there even though it is really tough. We mostly have no choice but to hang in there but we can be less lonely during the journey when others understand.

I dont know how your son does with transition, but mine took a full 1.5 years to settle into our new home. Yours is much younger so may not be as rigid since you guys as parents are more his "home" but taking pictures and helping him transition might be worth it.

 

[BusynMember]

You need a "proper" diagnosis for SSI. I'm not sure DBD would count. To get sSI they may send you to somebody they approve to test him (the good news is that it is at their expense). Although we never did try to get SSI for our son, I got SSI and that's the route I had to take along with a RED FLAG diagnosis (haha) and all my records. Red flag diagnoses may be different for kids, but I'd think autism, bipolar...serious stuff that is well known would give you a better chance. I had a bipolar diagnosis. and got approved the first time. However, it usually takes four tries.

Sonic gets an adoption subsidy, which is more than SSI would have been, so that's why we didn't try for SSI.

 

[hersheyb79]

He does not need SSI to be on medicaid. They are different programs. One can support the others because of the evaluations but until you get a diagnosis. of a permanent disability you are likely to be denied, esp. for ssi. I WOULD however, call the county once you move and say you have a disabled child and you would like case management to help find funding etc. They should be able to help you apply for any program that will benefit you. If not, ask for someone to consult at least to help you find all the programs available. Usually there is at least a childhood mental health program, but I really suspect there is far more going on with your son and it just has not been sorted through yet.

Would it be based on our income or would it be based on his need or both? I am pretty sure someone told me that for SSI if he qualifies, even if our income is too high to collect cash benefits, that they would have to provide him the Medicaid (which is all I care about anyway). Our daughter has CP, but I have never filed for SSI because we don't need it...and she is already on Medicaid (because she's adopted). I suppose that if I needed to I could apply for SSI for both of them so that we might stand a better chance of qualifying for DS.

As to the local term for his Special Education program the letters used do vary. Say that he is in a special education class for kids with emotional and behavioral disorders, (is that right???) sometimes it is called EBD, sometimes ED sometimes what you use etc... so uses the words not the letters. That should help.

SIED=Significant Identifiable Emotional Disability

He is in a class that is in a traditional school (though not our home school because our home school doesn't have a teacher certified to teach it)...it is a separate class that is only for SIED kids. Some of the kids are integrated into traditional classes for part of the day, other's (like difficult child) are not integrated at all. The school district is required (as part of his IEP) to pick him up and take him to school and drop him off at home at the end of school. This became a point of contention when he hit other kids on the bus. As it is a manifestation of his disability I was able to successfully argue that they couldn't kick him off the bus. So now he is required ride in a vest on the bus (like a car seat).

On the IEP the category he qualifies under is what will determine what type of program in the district and the level as well (level II, level III, level IV, etc... that says how much time is spent in a special education class...is it just gen ed with support, or is he in a class and leaves at times, or fully in a sp ed class but in a typical school or in a separate sp ed school.....the highest level is residential.

It says on his IEP "03-Emotional Disability" and "self contained classroom."

 

[TeDo]

I am in the process of applying for SSI for difficult child 1. It goes by your household income, not needs. The insurance is not necessarily tied in to SSI as far as I know. We (my two kids and I) are all on Medicaid because of our extremely low income.

 

[buddy]

To get SSI, he has to qualify based on his disability and your income is taken into consideration. You can apply for medicaid anyway though.... but I see your point, yes, because the would then be considered disabled medicaid qualifying would likely go along with it. I was thinking in the opposite view, you can apply for medicaid for him without doing the SSI thing.

My son is adopted too so no issues there, but I have had to fill out the paper work as a professional for children who's parents have applied for SSI for them. There had to be documentation that there was a disability. I must not have messed up because they all got approved.

Sounds like when you call other sp ed. departments then you can just use the words, Emotional and Behavioral disability, a level three classroom setting.... that will be general enough that whatever their specific term they will understand what you need.

My son has bus issues from time to time too, and you did great. My son still wears a seat belt, all of our busses are equipt with them now, but when younger he wore a harness. As he has gotten older he has twice now been given his own bus when there have been bus issues (not always his responsibility though, that is another story) so for future reference, if they can't find professionals who can deal with his behavior at least they can do that.

 

[JJJ]

Where in Indiana are you moving? Carefully choosing which school district could save you a world of hurt later.

 

[hersheyb79]

Where in Indiana are you moving? Carefully choosing which school district could save you a world of hurt later.

husband's job will be in Elkhart. We haven't decided where we will move exactly. Do you have suggestions?

 

[JJJ]

You'll be near South Bend. There is a major hospital with a children's psychiatric unit. I would suggest calling there and asking to speak to their school liason person or their family support person. They will be the ones with the best familiarity with the area school districts and which ones are more friendly to kids with difficult child-issues.

There is also a NAMI chapter in Elkhart County. They should also have some good insight.