My son is in a crisis unit. Voluntarily, I think.

Discussion in 'Parent Emeritus' started by Copabanana, Jul 13, 2016.

  1. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    I need counsel.

    Last night my son came home and told us that he had exploded and busted a whole in the dry wall of the house he is helping us remodel. M responded calmly, I got mad. I told him: You are responsible to control your impulses. If you feel you cannot you are responsible to go get treatment, anger management or take medication to help you do so. You cannot stay with me if you will not or cannot control your anger. And if you do not make a plan to do so, you have to leave.

    I was scared and upset and went to his room a second and third time to continue being upset.

    M told me to get a grip and stop going in there to criticize him. My son told me kindly. Mom. Please go back to your room and calm down. I don't want to fight with you.

    Coincidentally my son had an appointment to go today to the big metro 3 hours north of us to see the psychiatrist/analyst he used to see as a child. This was his 2nd month in a row to do so.

    I got a call an hour ago from the doctor who said my son was quite upset about having exploded yesterday and feared I would throw him out of the house. He said my son said he felt suicidal and not stable and the doctor brought him to the crisis unit. He was not 5150'd as far as I know.

    A bit later my son called and sounded good: he was really pleased at how the session had gone with Dr. B, sounded strong, and was loving and understanding to me. He was talking at length with the crisis people and felt he made connections that would really work for him. He said he was trying to work something out for extended treatment at the facility, perhaps on an outpatient basis, and might or might not be home tomorrow night.

    So tonight after M found out where my son was and what happened said this: You are partly to blame. You act aggressively to him. You have to change. You have just as much as a problem as he does. You have to change yourself. If you are too stressed because of work, quit.

    Well. I did not get mad at M but I felt poor me, why can't he just have empathy for me and see I am over my head. I don't criticize him about his kids. About the mistakes he made as a parent. I try to protect him. (And I told him something like that.) It did not go over so good. Let me tell you that.

    He said: Your primary responsibility is your son. If you have to quit work so that you can support him to change, you have to do it. Or change. Learn to speak to him with more patience. Don't raise your voice. Support him, don't criticize him.

    Imagine how I feel.

    You see. My son covers for me (and this may even be part of the problem.) He knows the things about me (some of them) that underlie why my temperament is the way it is. First, I was born 3 months early, which predisposed me to a certain sensitivity and reactivity that will never go away. Second, I had ongoing trauma as a child which I do not want to disclose but you can pretty much fill in the blanks: ___,___ and ___. If I was going to get better, I would have. But I have pushed myself in every conceivable way to change. I am somebody who is maxed out her potential. I am really the sow's ear that cannot go further. Am I getting my point across? The only thing I can do is make different choices. I can try to make life easier on me.

    My psyche is like a balloon. I can hold only so much stress. Since my mother was ill and died, it seems like I can deal with very much less. These are personal attributes that will not go away. I have spent a lifetime trying to change. I cannot develop more than I have--in terms of endurance. What I can do is prioritize what I do. That is to say, I can quit work or work less. Or, hypothetically, I can turn my son away. I do not want to. M does not want me too.

    I think M thinks it is my fault. Yes. I am greatly distressed about my son, because of the part I played. I do not want to traumatize my son. But I have a lot of compassion for me, too. And M pushes me to do more than I can tolerate, to accept more responsibility that I feel I can stand. I want to do it too--but I am pushed beyond my limits. I cannot stand the stress. Honestly, I am more worried about me. I am feeling very much a failure and a bad mother.

    There is no way I want to push my son away. There is no way I will do that. I cannot and I will not. But then...what? Where do I fit in this picture? I see no way out for me.

    There are parts of the job I like...but there is enough money that I do not have to do it. I can retire. Or there are other ways to make money. Easier ones. I can establish a private practice. But I am not ready to push myself to do this either. I am not ready.

    I want to replace the money I misspent in the 2 and a half years since my mother died. M's position is this: Why? It is your money to misspend in any way you want. Well. I guess I am too much like my mother. I feel bad the money is gone. But at what cost?

    It is like one, I do not want to throw in the towel at work. I will feel like a quitter and a failure.

    I did not sign a contract. But I told them and promised myself 6 months. It may have been a mistake.

    There is also the possibility of asking for fewer days, but I do not think that would be the solution. I really do not want to do this. It is either plow through or quit in shame. Neither a great option.

    I am having trouble defining this as a win. Because it feels like a loss. It feels like lose-lose. And I feel like a failure.

    I feel better having written this out.

    Thank you.
  2. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    MY opinion. Maybe for cultural reasons?M thinks you should shelter a grown man forever. I would understand if your son were a teen but he is almost 30. Society will not excuse a man his age for breaking things.

    I dont know the answer, but your son may always have diminished impulse control due to brain damage in the frontal kcortex before he was born. He is far too old to have fits and I believe if he could control himself, he would. IN HIS HEART, HE IS KIND, BUT HE HAS OTHER ISSUES ThaT MAY IMPEDE HIs ability to calm himself.

    I think Long term care is a good idea. He needs to be evaluated and maybe even get brain scans. This is not normal control for adult his age. Encourage him to get the help. in my opinion don't over talk to him. I think he very well may not be able to control his impulses and long critical talks can't change him. See what the professionals say.
    Wishing you a peaceful night. YOU have a lot to mull over. TRUST ME, Ive BEEN THERE To_O

    HUGS AND LOVE FROM YOUR FRIEND. I am so on your side. I hope this is legible. I'm half asleep!! Zzzźzzzzź...
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  3. A dad

    A dad Active Member

    He is not a child anymore and you can not parent him all the time. Pretty sure your son and your husband are conflicting personalities. And since your son has a brain injury a better control then he has now will never have as those kinds of neurons do not really regenerate.My opinion of course from seeing other with such injuries they will get better but up to a point will never be as good as before injuries.
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2016
  4. Childofmine

    Childofmine one day at a time

    Copa, this isn't about your fault or your son's fault. It's about people doing the best they can in a very tough situation.

    I believe you have helped your son as much as anybody possibly could. Ideas from the other two posters here so far have validity, I believe.

    You're doing the best you can. He's doing the best you can. He is better. You are better. This isn't about quitting your job or him going back to old behaviors.

    Both of you have made progress and aren't perfect of course. You are both still struggling. That is okay.

    The question is: where from here?

    What is best for him? What is best for you?

    In my opinion, it VERY RARELY and ALMOST NEVER works for our DCs to live with us. If it works for a little while, with the types of boundaries you have constructed, it won't be long.

    I would work to help you son into a new living situation within the next days/weeks/month or two. Whatever that is. A situation that can help him achieve a little more independence and help at the same time.

    You need to keep rebuilding your own life. Quitting your job because of him makes no sense.

    I so get the overtalking, what you did last night. I did it again and again. No matter how many times I decided I wasn't going to do it, I still did it. I literally could not shut my mouth when it came to just telling more a different combination of words...that surely would get through to him this time...whatever...

    It's okay. You are human. This isn't about being perfect or acting perfect in a very stressful and scary situation. We are going to regress in those situations. Them. And us.

    The question is what's next? Go slow. Slow way down. Get good solid advice. Write down your ideas and thoughts and feelings. Don't be rushed into a quick decision. Don't be hemmed in by guilt or fear here. Take some time. In the meantime, perhaps he can continue as he was.

    It's just not good long term for us and them to live together, even our healthy young adult children. I firmly believe that is a basic truth. They need to launch and have to deal with launching. For kids like your son, who have some more serious problems, I understand he needs help and support and some type of helpful environment. Look for that.

    Hang in there. Let go of your guilt here. You did the best you could do. That is what most of us do every single time in a very very very tough situation with our adult kids. It is the hardest thing in the world.
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  5. RN0441

    RN0441 100% better than I was but not at 100% yet


    You are a great mother and don't ever think otherwise! Not for one minute! If anything, you are too good of a mother!

    I 100% agree with Childomine. This is proof that your son needs not to live with you. It's not working out. You tried it. But I know you have to do what you feel is best. I think our adult children should be on their own as soon as possible. You deserve your own life with M. Just to focus on each other!

    I also do not think you should quit your job over your son. No way. You need an outlet other than him as he is a grown man.

    I also agree with SWOT that a new and younger psychiatrist is a great idea. I did not realize he had the same one for so long.

    You are so wise and helpful to all of us here. Sometimes we can't see the forest for the trees!

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  6. AppleCori

    AppleCori Well-Known Member

    It concerns me that your SO says this is all your fault and says you need to change.
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  7. A grown man should be able to deal with criticism from their upset mother without becoming suicidal. This is not about you, but about where your Difficult Child is in his recovery. He is taking responsibility for his backslide and that is great! Please be kind to yourself. Even if you went "too far", you have a long history with this child and lots of ups and downs and frankly I would have freaked out too. We are only human. I have a quote I like to remember at times like this.

    I am not overreacting. This is a normal reaction to an abnormal amount of bull****!

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  8. Albatross

    Albatross Well-Known Member

    Copa, I am sorry all of this came up, and came up so suddenly. But I guess it has been building for awhile. I agree with the others, perhaps it is best for your son to find other living arrangements...BUT...that is NOT to take away from what has come to pass as a result of him living with you these months. He has come SUCH a long, long way, Copa! Perhaps now, in large part because of the support he has gotten from you and M, he is READY to move to something with more independence. I think your son has a good heart. Not all of our difficult children do. I believe that in his heart he wants what is best for you as well. That is such a good place to start from.

    I think I have told you before that I don't think you give yourself enough credit, not by a long shot. These labels, like "bad mother," "quitter," "failure,"...Copa, these do not apply to you. I think it is much too harsh of you to berate yourself for spending money around the time of your mother's illness. I think there is no reason for you to feel the need to basically pay penance for doing so. It is ok for you to have done that, Copa. Earning that money back is a target you have placed on your own back. You can take it off again. There is no pressure other than what you impose.

    If you want to quit the job because of your son, I think that is a bad idea. No one other than yourself should hold that kind of influence. If you want to quit because it does not suit you, or it was not what was promised, or it is taking too big a toll on YOUR life, or you have a better alternative, then that is a rational choice. It certainly doesn't make you a quitter.
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  9. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    This is the first time I question M's good sense. You don't quit jobs to make a 27 year old your whole life. You deserve and need a life and he is beyond needing a full time mommy guiding him. There is no way you can change him. Yes, he is nicer now, but would he still be nicer if you didnt offer him a roof and other comforts? They can all be charming when they feel it is in their best interests, but if its not from the heart and gut, regardless of what you offer for comfort, it is fake. If I had money, Gone boy would never have left. He only sees ex because he stands to benefit. The reality is many of our more superficial kids tolerate us for what we can give them. zonly you know where your son stands here. I would never insist he is one of those adult children. Only you know if hed stand by you and love you if you had nothing to offer him.

    It is not insignificant that he is nicer now. it heals your heart. You matter. How you feel matters a great deal. How you feel is more important than what M thinks you should do or if your son ever gets it together. You cant take on their feelings or lives, only your own.

    To me, the idea of quitting a job to full time caretake a man your son's age is mindboggling. M is so wrong about this. What is he thinking?

    I agree that the sooner your son lives elsewhere the better it will be for both of you. Eventually he will get fed up with the rules or smoke pot (I think he actually still does and that is one reason he likes to take breaks) and you will come to verbal blows and he will leave on bad terms. You would hate that.

    You cant guide his destiny, not at his age. No way.

    Go to work. Stop trying to fix your son. Dont talk to him so much. He knows the right things to do. It us up to him whether to do them or not. I have a feeling you talk, talk, talk to him trying to get things to stick. My own mom did this. In my head I called thrm "lectures" and tuned her voice out. I was very resentful of her voice as at least in her case all she talked about meant to me that I was a loser. You know how badly our relationship turned out.

    I dont want that to happen to you and your son. He could take your words to mean he is a loser, as I did. It is so hard to live with a grown child. It isn't normal. As my darling, sweet Princess has said to me. "Mom, I love you to death but we could never live together again."

    I agree. it would be unhealthy for me and them to ever live with my adult kids again. It is too easy to fall back into parent and YOUNG child roles and that stresses everyone.

    Please do not take this as criticism. None intended. These are just my own way of thinking. I am irritated with M however.
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  10. A dad

    A dad Active Member

    Genuine is overrated if he fakes being nice and hard working well who cares he is nice and works. People do this because they does it matter he does it for a interest for a external motivation and not internal.
  11. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    ADad, I disagree maybe because I am a woman. I love my kids whether they have something to offer me or not and I want them to love me the same way...frim the heart. This is not overrated to me. And I have little to give them materally so I know they love me just because they love ME. It would break my heart if I were rich and they came around, giving into my demanding behavior, because of the monetary perks and life in a beautiful house. I am not saying ANYONE on this forum has children who only seem to "love" them for the money and housing and cars and vacations they are offered. But I think a lot of adult kids are nice to their parents only if something is in it for them, and that is not the kind of relationship I want to have with anybidy, including my beloved children.

    Dont be nice to me just because I give you things or I dont want your niceness. Not to say I dont shower my grandchild with grammy love, which includes, toys, or give my kids $100 sometimes when I have it. But they know there isn't much money here,,,certainly not life sustaining money for them...and I hear from all four of them all the time anyways. Maybe it's the women in me, but I cherish their love. My ex has the money, yet they come to me to pour out their hearts and for emotional support snd for sharing the good. And to visit without my asking.

    "Dad doesnt get it."

    "I cant talk to him. He is impossible to talk to."

    Of course they are nice to him. He helps with money. But they come to me when they need somebody to listen or to hug them. I will take that and hold it near to my heart. Nothing warms me more than to hear, "Thanks, Mom. You made me feel a lot better."

    Mommy feelings, I guess. Men and woman think differently very often, I have always felt.
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    Last edited: Jul 14, 2016
  12. Lil

    Lil Well-Known Member

    Before I answer or respond to anything, YOU are a GOOD mom! You've gone over and above for your son. There's no way you are anything BUT a good mom. I agree with SWOT when she said:
    I think it IS at least in part a cultural thing. In most Latin countries, people still live in multi-generational households and mama's baby their boys. But none of that changes the fact that he is 27 years old and still doing stupid things like having a tantrum and putting a fist (or foot or hammer or whatever) through a wall. Grown men don't behave like that without it being an EXTREME situation. I'm rather sure nothing earth shaking happened to bring that on. What can you do other than make him repair it? He's too old to punish. You can't fire don't pay him. Of course you were upset!

    That said, went too far. So? Are you human? People make mistakes. God knows I've picked and picked at my kid. Jabber has saved me from saying things I couldn't take back. The big difference between you and me is YOURS actually tried to calm you down. Mine just starts screaming back at me until it's a HUGE fight. But it happened, it's done.

    And a grown man should not be so upset about his mother's behavior that he has to be admitted. About his OWN, maybe. HE was the one that couldn't control his temper, but instead of him saying, "I keep screwing up and I keep losing my temper and I have to learn to control it." it's "I messed up and my mom's mad at me and I'm afraid she'll kick me out." His emphasis is still wrong. He's better, no doubt, but wrong.

    When I read this...I turned it around. Replace M with "Mom"...I wonder if that's exactly how our kids feel? Mom (or Dad) pushes me to do more than I can tolerate, to accept more responsibility than I feel I can stand. I want to do it, but I am pushed beyond my limits. I cannot stand the stress. Just thinking "out loud", but it seems very likely doesn't it? That the things WE expect...though reasonable to us and even necessary in society...seem too much to them. Like we're putting on pressure they can't tolerate. Of course, what we expect - get a job and be decent people - is minor in comparison. But I wonder if the underlying feelings society's expectations cause in them is just like this?

    Of course you aren't going to push him away. But no way out? I find this to be disturbing. it REALLY that bad, what he did? Is this REALLY about that? Yes...he needs to learn control. I want to make it clear that HE needs to take responsibility for it and HE needs to do better. But putting a hole in a wall is not injuring a person or animal. He didn't destroy anything that can't be fixed. Even better, he fessed up. He came home and told you both. He didn't wait for M to find it and then lie about it. He was up front and confessed. This is admirable. YES, he needs to learn better behavior, but drywall (especially in a house already under construction) can be fixed. Make him pay for the repair - if M is going to do it then at least the market value of having someone come do it or the cost of materials. Or, he's learning to fix houses, make him do it himself!

    But enough about your son...time to concentrate on YOU. Because that "no way out" statement is no way to live. So that's why I ask: is it really just this drywall incident that causes you to feel this way? I don't think so. It sounds to me like a combination.

    If you feel that having him with you is too much for you...then THAT is something that needs dealt with.

    But it seems like HE is only one part of the puzzle.

    Copa, You haven't worked in quite a while. You took a job that is demanding and stressful, 40 minutes from home, and you've had problems with the management and other employees there from day 1.

    Have you gone jogging lately? If you're like me, you're not a runner unless something is chasing you.

    How about you and I do the Boston Marathon?

    Because that's what you've done. You've gone from walking around the block once a day to running an endurance race. If you quit that after the first 2 miles, do you think there would be shame in that? Would that make you feel like a failure? There is NO SHAME in taking care of yourself and admitting maybe you bit off more than you can chew.

    Honey, your son sees a you? You are under so much stress...can you find someone to listen and advise you that isn't M? Because even though he loves you, there are things I don't think M understands. You need to NOT feel trapped. It's a terrible thing, to think you have no choices.
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  13. New Leaf

    New Leaf Well-Known Member

    Copa, I do not have time to respond at length, busy day today. I wanted to check in with you and share my support. I am sorry for the troubles you are facing with your son and your job. You are an awesome person dealing with a very difficult situation.
    You and your son have come leaps and bounds over these past months.
    The end of the story is not written.
    I have every confidence that you will rise to any challenge presented. Keep your head up friend, you will get through this.
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  14. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    So much to consider. So, so tired. Thank you everybody. Every single thing I took in.
    OK. This is what I think it is with M: part guilt about my son, because 5 years ago he was the one who urged me to kick him out--the idea being my son would be forced to work (he was refusing) and to save himself. In fact, he got worse. He suffered and I suffered. M feels very, very bad and responsible and wants to make it up to my son. He does not say it but I know this. He has said to me months ago--please let me help J. I feel very badly that I did not help him more before in a sustained way. I want to now. He needs support and somebody to show him how to work and how to live. Please let me.

    And then this: M came here to the US because of marital trouble. He literally ran away after 2 years of fighting with his wife. He had 2 still teenage kids who turned against him (with wife's help), feeling abandoned by him. Their mother has spent the last 12 years demonizing M to his children. There is always a kernel of truth to everything--M was not, is not perfect. Far from it.

    There are 9 children all together and M does not have any kind of significant relationship with 4. He cannot go back until the immigration crisis is settled. I believe he bleeds for his children (now all adults). He was the kind of father and husband who did anything and everything for his family--sacrificed every bit of his interests for them--except for when he was young he was a drinker. *Guilt. And he can be direct, and harsh sometimes.

    I think he sees himself in me. And I think he sees our situation with my son as a way he can heal himself--and heal all of us. Today he was softer. But we have not spoken of it.

    Well, I agree with you here, SWOT. Dr. First had not seen my son except maybe 3 visits in 8 or 9 years so we cannot hold him responsible but now he is trying to back away--making statements like he is retired. He does not want to be responsible. The exact opposite to M. How to do you think that makes me feel? How will my son feel? I feel thrown away. And mad.
    My son who I have not heard from since last night was thrilled with the staff at the crisis center and said he was going to see if he could make connections with them for ongoing treatment and support. Who knows what is possible?
    My son was homeless. I wonder if by being homeless again in that County he could qualify for services there (yes, he can) and even subsidized housing. The County is a marvel. A wealthy, gorgeous place with great transportation and weather just a half hour by ferry or bus from the big city and everywhere my son loves.

    If this were possible, it would be a great launching pad. (Except it did not work out this way, he is on his way home. He called M and is already back in our City.)
    It bothers me too. M is direct. Sometimes brutally so. His tack always is: you cannot change anybody. You either change yourself or you leave. He really, really believes we owe my son. I do not. But I love my son.
    The way the psychiatrist put it was that my son felt bad about himself for not having better control, and then secondarily: My Mom is really pissed and she says she is going to throw me out.
    My son has a beautiful heart, except towards himself.
    I agree with you. I agree with everybody that the best option would be something like staying in that county with a nice place to live, subsidized housing, already connected with treatment options, close to everything he loves and knows, 3 hours from us, by train--and the whole world around him to begin again. He really really does not like my county which he sees as hot and provincial and filled with meth addicts. And without good services, to boot. There is really not much for him here. I acknowledge this.

    I just got a call from the psychiatrist who went over to the crisis center, and was told that my son had secured admission to the alternative hospital unit/crisis unit in the big city and had left. There was some conflict, my son calmed down, and apologized profusely and now he is gone.

    The psychiatrist seems not to be able to bail fast enough--I do not even think he wants to see my son again. Which makes me feel sad and bad. M says it must be because my son is more powerful than the Dr. who is now almost 80 years old. But why get involved in the first place?
    Thank you Albatross. I cannot forgive myself about spending all that money compulsively buying junk I did not want or need. It feels like penance on top of hair shirt.
    That is true. I will think about it. I know you are right.

    Over and over again I have realized that I treat myself like I am some chattel. I treat myself so badly. I whip myself into shape.I have been this way for almost 40 years. I forced myself to walk on bloody feet to goals. I insult myself if I get tired and hopeless and whip myself more. I have never ever learned to be good to myself. Ever. The closest I came were the years out of the country and before I went back to work again 9 years ago.
    I do not doubt my son's love for me. Now. For years I did. I wondered where it all had gone. OMG, I love him so much.
    Yes this is exactly how it feels. Like the most expensive Chanel cream for my heart. (My mother bought Chanel makeup. I buy Dollar store. Maybe its time for a switch.)
    Please don't be. His aim is not to hurt me, but he does sometimes. He is a good and responsible man. But with a harshness to him. But you see, I think he must see himself in me. The part that cost him his children. I think he must want me to be better than I am. Isn't that what we are working towards too?

    You guys just put it a different way. A softer and more indirect way of helping me be better. It is not that I am bad. Just hurt and limping.

    Lil: I think this is absolutely brilliant:
    Yes. It sure does.
    I am very frightened. I do not want him to suffer. I want him to be OK. I get afraid!!! I want him to be OK. If I write these things over and over again will it help?

    Lil. Have you ever felt trapped, of your own making? And you would not let yourself out? And because you knew that you had the tools to get out, you threw them away--because you felt you did not deserve to get out? For some reason I have put myself in that situation and I am not sure why.
    Yes. I am abdicating my power and responsibility when I am in this place. It is like I'm putting a bag over my head like that children's game. Why, I am not sure? I wonder if it is still related to my mother.
    No. I live in a small city where I used to work about 20 years ago. I know 2/3 of the clinicians and do not trust any of them either to do a good job or to keep my privacy. I am very open with people--about what is going on with me--but I do not like it when somebody who is in my trust, violates it.

    There are several people at work who seem like good clinicians, but I cannot see them because it would be a dual relationship. Honestly I do not know what to do except there are a few therapists here I do not know. I can make appointments with them one by one and maybe somebody will be OK.
    In the light of day I see I have choices, but I feel so crippled and hobbling. I have hope that I will be able to dance again--that I will make that happen, if I live long enough to do it. And I believe I will create a next step because I have always done so before. I am feeling like this job was a false step. I was not ready but I got scared about money. And then it turns out that they are overwhelmed with work and people are miserable. People are taking work home and working nights and weekends uncompensated. I have done the free work stuff before but I cannot now. I will not allow myself to work free. At least that is something.

    There has to be a silver lining to this. Maybe one thing is that my son is seeing his situation with a bit more clarity. And taking responsibility. Who knows?

    Thank you. I will re-read this thread and I will reflect. Thank you.
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    Last edited: Jul 14, 2016
  15. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    Thank you COM. This is the gist of it.

    With, my son--he will have to be the motor of his changing and he will have to decide himself the direction. I agree with Albatross. That it could well be because of the stability and support we gave him he can now go forward himself from where he is. I can hope that this is the case. I would feel better had he stayed in the luxe county but he must have had his reasons and the fact that he sought out another crisis center is a good step, not a bad one.

    And me: the worst his behind me in the job. I have trained myself. I have caught up with the boatload of work. They will heap more on me but the worst is over. And maybe with my son away for a while the stress will get lessened. M and I will both feel more relaxed and less vulnerable and in more control.

    And the best of all, there are a couple of colleagues that seem to want to be my friend!!! One of them today came to introduce herself. She had watched me so busy for the past 6 weeks and I had not even seen her! We told each other we were beautiful!! Off to a good start. She told me: I have been watching you an so you seem so kind, such a nice person. I want to be your friend. And neither one of us can find a therapist and we each need one so she suggested with a smile that we be each others' therapists, as friends. Well you can't know a person in an hour but I loved being with her and felt happy, so that is a start.

    And the other woman is my supervisor and I asked her if she would be my therapist but she said we could be friends and talk. You cannot know how gratifying it is to make friends. I have been a long time without real friends, and I am not sure why. I think I have been isolating for a very long time.

    So, that is a good thing. Or it could be. Now 24 hours later I am feeling that the burden for me really has been my son. I feel so responsible.

    It is just that he has not been solving his own problems. So just like always they feel as if they are mine to solve. I have to remember that. I cannot take on the weight of his problems. But I was. It is too much for me to carry.

    I did not know what bad shape I was in. Or put another way: I was ignoring myself. I was not listening to myself. I can change that. I am not sure how just yet, but there must be a way, if I try to be open to it.

    Thank you.
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  16. Hopeful97

    Hopeful97 Active Member


    I just read this thread. My heart hurts for you, I have seen it said several times throughout this thread YOU take care of YOU! I have begun to take baby steps toward me taking care of me, it feels strange to me but a good kind of strange. That is good advice and oh so true!

    If you feel that the living situation is to stressful, I believe you should do what is best for you. I lived in a stressful situation for several years with d c and it finally began to take its toll not just emotionally but physically as well I am convinced of it..That type of stress for lengthy amount of time can and does cause physical problems sometimes serious! Please take care of you, my Difficult Child cannot live with hubby and I and right now it seems as if he thinks all is well which couldn't be farther from the truth.

    You matter, you are a great person and mom! :notalone: :staystrong: we all stand with you!
    Huge Hugs:hugs:
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2016
  17. Nomad

    Nomad Well-Known Member

    Apologies up front as I'm rushing a bit and only read the first post.
    I think it is good that your son voluntarily went. We told our daughter if she ever felt suicudal to consider such a thing and she actually did this one time.
    I think it might be a good idea to require him to see a therapist and/or take medication regularly in exchange for your continued assistance with housing and so forth. Low dose medication might even be helpful esp when combined with therapy. No doubt you are helping with many things. Cell phone? Food? Clothing? Etc. it is appropriate that he does his part. And getting tx for your health problem is what mature people do.
    Re the job
    You might consider a practice run of reducing your hours. A few days a week? I would love to have a prof job a few days a week. This in my humble opinion is a treasure. If you give that a fair shot and it doesn't work, so be it. Do something else. BUT in my humble opinion honestly, if you could maneuver this into a professional PT job, I would consider it. They are hard to find. And you've already put a lot into it!!!!! Use your days off to relax and have fun. Go on little trips etc. But, in your heart you know what is best. What is your objective? How do you feel?
    I think youve mentioned therapy before. You might want to consider going back if you aren't currently going. Having a "special needs" adult child is profoundly taxing.
    What in the world are you doing for fun these days? Blessings.
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  18. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    Thank you Hopeful.

    He is home. He says he is intending to go back to the luxe place and enter residential treatment but needs first to transfer his medical coverage to that county (which is different.) I did tell him this, too: When you do not take care of your health I feel helpless and afraid, afraid of the future for myself--because I love you so much--would you consider please going to your Hepatologist and resuming the antivirals? I know you and and your doctor decide these matters. But I am your mother and I need you to be healthy and OK. For you and for me. (He was on the anti-virals that completely eliminated signs of the virus. And he stopped 5 years ago, without telling the doctor.)

    He said he would. Can you call now to make an appointment? Mom. It's 6pm. They are not there. (I phrased it that way because I have been reading about non-violent communication (nvc.)

    Now I am learning that when my son left the crisis place in the luxe county he did not report to the crisis place in the other county as he agreed and as had been arranged. I do not know how that might affect the first county's predisposition to have him back, or if they even know about it.

    This is the kind of circumstance in which I typically over-react because it indicates poor judgment and it closes off potential resources and sources of support. When this happens and he forecloses options particularly those that limit his access to treatment--I kind of go slightly bonkers.

    If I think in terms of nvc they would say effective responding is a question of the language I choose. That I could say, when I fear you are closing off options for your treatment, I feel helpless and afraid. What I would want is that you have all available options open to you.

    When I use language such as this I am supposed to feel better and empowered and closer to my feelings and his. Let me tell you I just feel frustrated and upset, if that indeed is what he did. And it looks like he did not go to a treatment program that had been arranged for him, with some effort, contrary to plan and his agreement.

    He has got the phone that has the mobile hotspot too far so I cannot post this yet until he ends his conversation with the psychiatrist. Honest to G-d, I feel like kicking him out again. Imagine having 2 weeks of residential treatment arranged with a likely entry into longer term residential treatment and walking the other way when you told people to their face that you are going go go.

    You see, this is where I go wrong. I feel it to be a personal betrayal. Him? He thinks it has nothing to do with me. But as long as it is a condition of staying with me that he obtain treatment--it is a betrayal--to me it is.
  19. Childofmine

    Childofmine one day at a time

    Oh Copa, I so understand your feelings here. It is SO FRUSTRATING when there are options and there is no sense to them not taking them.

    It's not personal though, and you know that in your mind. It's your heart that doesn't know it. This is where feelings aren't facts come in. A basic truth in Al-Anon that I 100% rejected out of hand for years. I thought it was trite, oversimplified, and I didn't understand it AT ALL.

    Now it is one of my basic life truths. We feel one way so strongly, so it must be real and true. Actually, our feelings are real, but they may not be true. Like you said, standing there, hearing that, your feelings went wild. Of course they did. This is where we have to learn to separate our feelings from our actions and our thinking. This takes a long long time and a lot of work for us "feelings" people. I know because I was 100% a feelings person all my life. That's how I was made. Over time, I learned how to do this, with a whole lot of missteps (still today) and a whole lot of work on me.

    Hang in there. He is still making progress. Don't get hung up on something he didn't do because that takes way too much energy. He has done some things. Focus on those. He is making progress. Focus on that. It's about progress not perfection.

    Last night Difficult Child came over for about 20 minutes. He looked awful. Exhausted. He worked 58 hours this week he said. He had dark circles under his eyes. He is thin. Of course, MommyMe, the first thing I start assessing is: Is he using again? I go right to the worst case scenario. My mind is just clicking as we are sitting there on the deck, and I'm forcing myself to speak slowly and calmly and not ask question after question after question. I can go right back to my old behavior like that in my mind.

    He probably is just really tired. He doesn't take very good care of himself. He basically works and sleeps. He doesn't eat enough and he doesn't drink enough water. He works outside and it is super hot. He gets no real exercise etc.

    But it is is his life, and I can't fix all of that. He told me he takes those caffeine pills (warning!! Warning!!) to help get up in the morning. i know he drinks a lot of those energy drinks. I don't think that is good for people but I just didn't say anything.

    Progress not perfection. It's hard to live it, but we have to accept it. It's just not gonna be all rosy and perfect, Ever. Ever. That's hard to accept, but we must. You and me.

    Ugh. Anyway, let's hang in there, and stay the course. The more we can keep quiet and just show support the better off we will be and the better off they will be.

    Hugs today. We mommas have a tough, tough job.
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  20. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    I agree with COM. its not personal to us if they don't do things we wish they'd do. Its about them only, not us. I would not try to control his decisions too much or keep telling him you'll throw him out if he doesn't do this or that. if it were my kid...a few basic must work, no drugs (for me I'm not sure td worry about the pot, but your house/your rules), be relatively clean about the house and no disrespect on a big level.

    To try to make him do everything you want him to do or you will throw him out, in my opinion is too controllung to him and too exhausting for you. Make the decision that he will be able to stay with you unless he breaks a few rules a lot of times or make him leave.Please dont hold it over hus head every time he hurts you. People like you and I are easily hurt ( I am much better now, but I have to watch myself) .IIt is never a good decision if it is made strictly by our feelings and not our logic.

    Youir son is never going to be everything you wished for. None of our kids ever are. I know of extremely thriving, nice adult kids whose parents fret because they moved across the globe for good jobs, their grands barely know them, their kids work a lot and rarely call them. Or their thriving child lives a mile away and is busy with the family and the mother barely can see her or him or the grands. This happens a lot. in the end, we must live our own lives. Our adult children grow up and we need to keep griwing too. in my opinion you pay too much attention and talk too much to an adult child who is a man.He will not do everything you want him to do. You must let it go unless he us sitting in front of thr TV all day, eating and leaving dirty dishes all over, calling you names and breaking your things. Or stealing and shooting heroin.

    You will both go nuts if you try to force him to do everything you want him to do. If you must constantly talk at him about what he should be doing, in my opinion it's best for both of you if he moves out. in my opinion hes in or out. He shouldnt worry that everything will land him in the street. That IS stressful And you should never ever feel you need to quit your job or even cut your hours to babysit for a grown man, troubled or not. And you make the decision, based on what you want for yourself, not based on what M. wants or thinks or not because you feel your son needs a sitter. What do YOU want? I wonder sometimes if M is threatened by your working success. It can be challenging to many men when the woman he loves is more successful than he is that way. That doesnt make him a bad person, but it could make him feel lesser than. That should not be why you quit either. He knew who you are when he signed up

    Remember those days in bed? You have come so far. Working seniors, like you and me, are healthier than those who retire and do very little. Haha, this is proven scientifically. I read in Time Magazine's special addition about The Science of Happiness. Its a great special edition. Out now. $16.00 but worth every dime.

    Copa dear, your son may have challenges and not all adult children do, but he's still a man who is not going to do everything you ask of him. None of them do. Personalizing all his decisions hurts both of you. Let go of his choices and his final outcome. You can't write his story and most, if not all of his choices, are about him, not you.

    Let it go.

    Dont worry, be happy.

    Live your life and let him live his.

    Or both of you will get crazy.
    Do buy or go to library and reaf Time Magazine's, The Science of Happiness. It is my new Bible. I think you'll enjoy it.

    Big hugs to a warrior mom plus!!! Honestly, you raised your son right. He already knows what to do. Now its up to him, not you.
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    Last edited: Jul 16, 2016