My Uber Entitled Narcissistic Pathological Liar Son Just Turned 18, I Thought He Was Done Here?

Discussion in 'Parent Emeritus' started by Nikimoto, Feb 15, 2015.

  1. Nikimoto

    Nikimoto Pursuit of peace

    I am new here, and really love what I have been reading in the means of support mostly, but also the facts that there are similar spots in everyone's stories to mine.
    As painful as this is, thanks for letting me share. I really need a hug.
    My middle son of 5 kids (let's call him E.) just turned 18 on New Years' Day, and had moved out last July on my eldest son's offer to take guardianship in an attempt to defuse a highly volatile situation. I married his stepdad when E was 11, moved to a new state, had his half sister, no step siblings, no real hurdles in his cognitive abilities. He was the normal, placid kid he had mostly been his entire life, but soon began to lose his damn mind over nothing, and trivial things, and was basically our very own Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. Although he had argued and struggled with homework early in gradeschool, we had him counseled and ADD and related issues were entirely ruled out. That was a relief and also a problem, as were left without any diagnosis. We took him counseling through our medical, but the lady wanted me to take responsibility for his behavior, instead of teaching him to, instead of backing me up. She also seemed unable to discern when he was lying, though I told her so. She seemed to believe that he was not allowed time to do homework, instead of the truth I told her about his time wasting. That was a bust.
    We then took him to a different counselor we had been seeing for marriage issues, as he mentioned he spoke with teen boys, and met with group therapy for teen boys, seemed like a good chance E would be interested in meeting him, which he was. Started out strong, counselor called him out on lying and arguing, which he responded to with respect and warmth, and actually said he loved talking to him. I had a glimmer of hope, but his deranged activities simply spiraled out of control due to his purposeful misinterpretation of even the things the counselor told him.
    The things he would pick a fight over/wage a standoff were in short:
    Getting his dirty clothes into the laundry
    Spending too much time on the toilet (Hours, the seat is worn through)
    Showering for nearly an hour unless we shut off the valve
    Coming to meals/helping to prepare or cook
    Doing any assigned chores...dishes, yard work, cleaning his own room
    Doing homework
    Doing anything
    Being civil
    Behaving like a human
    And, when we would call him on these very petty things, his reply was to blow up LOUDLY and insult us, me especially, and argue belligerently for hours though we would attempt to send him to his room or tell him to take a walk.
    By 3 years ago, we also had his baby brother, so there two tiny kids to be careful of in our house, and he did not give one :censored2: about them, continuing to rampage abusively, arguing, name calling, slamming doors, anything to be loud loud loud. He did not even care they were screaming and crying, we finally had to start calling the cops.
    I was at a loss and told the counselor I was becoming desperate, begging him to give our son a diagnosis and tell me what was wrong with him, or at least help him more firmly as it seemed like he was taking our complaints lightly. He looked at me for a long moment and said nothing. Nothing is wrong with him. It was such a desolate moment. I believe I whispered "Wow" under my breath, and fought back tears as I left the room, never to return.
    E's biodad was like this, so much. Although I am pro life, I was sorely tempted to seek an abortion after we broke up due to my fear this kid would behave the same way. This is the thanks I get. To be treated like garbage by the child I have loved and spoiled and cared for 18 years.
    The police calls were based on but not limited to:
    Refusing to clean up a water spill/leave the room/leave the house to defuse, where the water spill caused my toddler son to slip and injure his skull.
    J-run 2x, after picking fights and being excused from the dinner table, refusing to come home
    Getting too rough with his kid sister, dropping her face down on a hard floor, slapping her back excessively when she coughed until she was red and crying, she always seemed to get hurt 'accidentally' when they played together. (he is nearly 6 feet the past few years, with extensively long limbs, very large hands, his kid sister is tiny for her age, 25th %ile)
    Forging my name to donate blood at school, though I would have signed
    Breaking into closed areas of the house where he had abused priviledges/raging
    Mostly it was all raging and refusing to defuse, to recognize the argument was nowhere and needed to end.
    Now he has been with eldest brother for over 7 months, and is still not doing his homework, getting terrible grades. No word on whether he is asked to pitch in with chores or cook or do anything, really. Just got a nasty post on Facebook last night calling me a 'tumor' he would have cut off sooner if his younger siblings didn't matter to him. He then declared we were no longer mother and son, and at this point after careful consideration, think it's necessary to include this into a living will should anything happen to us before our little ones are grown.
    As unfathomable as this all is, A small part of me remembers the real person he used to be. I have not ruled out the possibility of drug use, just haven't seen it outside of he came home hungover a few times, and we saw pass an ecig to one of his derelict friends at a park when he was supposed to be at Judo, which he got kicked out for grades and attitude.
    The years of concerned teacher calls and conferences are over, I ordered him strictly to leave us alone or face being sued for slander and harassment.
    Utterly baffled and heartbroken.
  2. ForeverSpring

    ForeverSpring Well-Known Member

    Welcome to the board, but so sorry you have to be here.

    The counselor who told you your son is normal is either nuts himself or incompetent. Obviously, he isn't. A counselor is not really allowed to diagnose, at least if you live in the U.S. Only a psychiatrist (with the M.D.) and a neuropsychologist can make a diagnosis. They are the most highly educated of the mental health community. I'm enraged thinking of this idiot telling you nothing is wrong. I have been in the mental health system as a patient since I was 23 and I am 61 and it never fails to amaze me how self-righteous some mental health "professionals" can be about a very inexact science. But a diagnosis really isn't the issue right now. However, I wanted you to know I empathize with your experience.

    Your son probably is using drugs if he changed quickly. Think about his friends (like hangs with like), his hygiene (has it gotten worse?), stealing (why is he stealing? Drugs are expensive) is not that hard to see the signs, but often we miss them anyway...we don't want to think it's drugs. Trust me, I know.

    If your son is taking drugs, he is no longer that person you knew once and he won't be unless he confesses and quits, which can be done. As long as he is this new person, in my opinion you did the right thing to make him leave. He is clearly a danger to his younger brother and sister and, at least in my house, violence is the final straw. He's lucky his brother rescued him. That may not last though.

    Don't check his FB. Our little darlings who steal from us, abuse us, and do criminal things love to post things about how horrible WE are just for our eyes to see so that they hurt us. It's best to not look. If he texts you nastily, I would not read the texts or answer them.

    One last thing. Since your son is eighteen, you may want to post in the Parent Emeritus section, which is the place where parents of legal aged kids post. This particular forum that you posted on is for parents of minor children and it is different once we legally have no more control over them and when we CAN ask them to either get serious about help or get out. Or just get out and come back when you are no longer dangerous and you'll have to prove it. You'll get a bigger response on the Parent Emeritus forum. We've all been there, done this.

    Hugs for your hurting heart. Keep posting!!!!
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    Last edited: Feb 15, 2015
  3. runawaybunny

    runawaybunny Administrator Staff Member

    Welcome @Nikimoto

    I moved your thread to Parent Emeritus where we discuss our situations with kids that are over 18.

    Raging, theft... I'm so very sorry that you are in such a difficult place right now. I suggest that you avoid reading whatever he posts on facebook.

    Hang in there. You are not alone.
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  4. Nikimoto

    Nikimoto Pursuit of peace

    ah, I had to take some action with it though, it was very slanderous. I screenshotted the post and comment thread, declined to allow it to post my feed, and reported his abuse to fb staff. They were very prompt to my surprise, and sent him a warning about the conduct cod when they removed his post. I KNOW he is lying, and anyone who knows me by now knows it, and knows he is very abusive, but there is always some gullible person ready to bait on some slander, no matter how wild. Just a tip in case anyone else gets this on facebook, too. There are immediate steps to prevent that contact.
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  5. 2much2recover

    2much2recover Well-Known Member

    This is the "DNA" connection - a biological reality that you can not do one thing to change. You are fighting nature vs nurture here and it is quite obvious that nature is winning. Which brings me to this:
    It is only recently that I connected by daughters connection to DNA. Also, I was not a good disciplinarian. Probably because I saw physical abuse as a child by my maternal grandmother and I knew it was not normal because I didn't suffer this type of abuse from my parents. Probably determined early that I would never hurt my own child. So do the math and add up: only child + bad DNA + no discipline = disaster - in her case sociopath or some other mental illness with sociopath tendencies (she won't go to therapy because she sees nothing wrong with her behavior) Like yours - narcissistic, pathological liar, plus add charismatic, grandiose, controlling and manipulative.
    You are doing the right thing in my opinion. I suffered for far too many years, beating myself up and putting all the guilt on myself, wondering what I, as a parent did wrong. In the end it is the equation above. The end result for me is that I live a peaceful life because I kicked the bullying daughter out of my life. At some time they have to grow up, and so do we in a way. We need to grow up and learn that all our efforts to change them need to be put in the past and release them (these bullying parasites ) away from us. I have a little saying I like to say about people I don't want to be around because of their (hurtful) behavior: There is room in the Universe for everyone; it might not be right next to me, but there is room in the world for everyone. (you don't have to live their life, you only have responsibility to live your own)
    Release him to his destiny no matter where that leads him, for you have given your all and for a emotional vampire, there is never "enough" Only you can bring peace back into your own life and that of your family by letting go of the "monster". Trying to get him any more help or trying to get him to see the error of his ways his futile. At this point interacting with him does more harm than good, because emotionally it doesn't effect him (except open the door to more manipulation) and it repeatedly bring out the guilt, the anger, and the resentment in you. You did not break your son and you can not fix him. Only a martyr would continue to sacrifice their happiness for the mess your son has become.
    Please read this article on detachment:
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  6. pandora404

    pandora404 New Member

    Hi Nikimoto,
    my reply isn't going to help you at all (unless as they say "misery loves company") but I've got a pretty similar one to yours. For example:
    Yeah "me especially" too.:blue: Perhaps we're the softer targets.

    I admire you for taking this action so much. How awesome you are!

    Also 2much2recover, I strongly related to your situation:
    Stupid inherited personality disorders! This is pretty much a dead-on description of my child.

    And then you, the normal one, end up in therapy just to get support, because the one who actually needs to go, won't go. Families, eh?
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  7. nlj

    nlj Well-Known Member

    It's one of the best things about this site.
    Sending a big hug :notalone:
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  8. ForeverSpring

    ForeverSpring Well-Known Member

    I had no idea you could go to Facebook and stop people from posting horrible things about you. THANK YOU, nikito, for letting me know and for letting ALL of us know. I didn't think FB had ANY standards at all.

    You are a first rate warrior mom and I'm so sorry you are hurting.
  9. nlj

    nlj Well-Known Member

    You can block people easily on FB. I've blocked my first husband and all his family and hangers-on. It stops them seeing your page or posting anything on it. Twitter should do the same. I haven't found a way of stopping certain people following me on twitter. Does anyone know if there's a way of doing that?
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2015
  10. ForeverSpring

    ForeverSpring Well-Known Member

    Lucy, yes, I know about blocking. Thank you for the reminder.

    I still think it's good that if somebody wants to slander you on FB, you do have some leverage.
  11. Tanya M

    Tanya M Living with an attitude of gratitude Staff Member

    Welcome Nikimoto. I'm so sorry that you are going through this with your son. I'm glad you found this forum, you will always find support, advice and beleive it or not some laughter.

    My son went through much of the same of what you describe. I think we must have had the same "bad" counselor. I remember she would always want to put the blame on my and my husband never holding my son accountable for anything. She didn't last long and we moved on to another counselor who was amazing but the sad truth is, my son just never wanted to change for himself. Over the years there have been periods of time that I really thought he was changing for the better but in Difficult Adult Child style he was just telling us what we wanted to hear. Master of manipulation for sure.
    DNA absolutely plays a role. My son is just like his bio-father and he dropped out of my sons life when he was 4 so without any interaction with the bio-father for my son to have turned out just like him proves to me that DNA plays a huge role.

    It sounds like you are on the right track. The most important thing is your safety and the safety of your two younger children. It's good that you are not afraid to call the police if needed.

    None of us wants to have to be here but I am so thankful for this forum, it is truly a life line.

    ((HUGS)) to you........
  12. Nikimoto

    Nikimoto Pursuit of peace

    Heavy sigh of relief...not alone.
  13. Nikimoto

    Nikimoto Pursuit of peace

    Midwest mom, there are several things you can control with facebook. First of all, as mentioned is Block. Period, end of discussion when necessary. But when somebody attempts to post to your wall, make sure your settings are at Notify me, so that you can review before allowing it post to your timeline, decline that and it's not showing up to anyone who follows you. You can also untag yourself from anybody's post, gone instantly. Important with abuse and harassment is reporting. Click through with the reporting process options, and they even follow up and check if you are ok. I believe this developed due to some prior suicide and death threats from crazy people who use facebook.
    All this is anyone's control who has a profile, and I was always aware of them, but wound up using the entire arsenal Saturday night when E vomited on my page.
    Good luck!
    Not alone
  14. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    Welcome, Nikimoto.
    Here is a big hug: :group-hug:
    That counselor is so full of %&*#&#! I mean, sitting on the toilet until the seat is worn through is normal? Come ON.

    It's too hard to tell from your description whether you're dealing with bipolar or Asperger's or what, but I think there is a sensory integration disorder at play. I am so sorry that you are going through this. I know that you love him.
    Maybe if he gets arrested for something, he will be hospitalized and the doctors can try medications to calm him down. Sometimes you have to do things backwards to get a diagnosis.

    In the meantime, stay safe. And know that we are here.