Need help (or an intervention) - she stepped up her game

Discussion in 'Parent Emeritus' started by mcdonna, Oct 21, 2016.

  1. Snow White

    Snow White Temporarily in the Magic Kingdom

    Happy Friday. Or so I thought. She's definitely brought her "A" game to today's drama. Woke up to 6 phone messages (2 from a FB friend of daughter and 4 from a phone number in Thailand) that started at 4:30 am. This is why we no longer have a phone in our bedroom!

    This is the 1 year anniversary of my trip to Asia to see our daughter. It also marks the anniversary of her being attacked and robbed at knifepoint 2 days after I left (that cost us $3000 in replacement passport, flight, new phone, etc.) and her subsequent breakup with her boyfriend. Holidays and special occasions (including anniversaries) are usually a time for drama.

    The phone won't stop ringing at work. Her FB friend sent a message to me that daughter might have sepsis, might need surgery, there's "fluid in her abdomen where there shouldn't be", blah, blah, blah. I worked in ob/gyn for 24 years and wish she would pick something else to upscale. I suspect she is dehydrated. Friend sent a photo of the IV bottle and another of her just before having an ultrasound. But they've admitted her to hospital. Another hospital, another drama.

    What do I say? What do I do? What if she does need surgery? She doesn't have medical insurance (told her time and time again to get it). I didn't answer any of the calls. Haven't responded to the FB friend. I went to the gym this morning and burned off a bunch of anger at a cycling class. And here I sit at work now. Angry, frustrated, worried and bordering on enabling her.

    I'm thinking that giving her the number for emergency services through our government is as far as I will go.
  2. RN0441

    RN0441 100% better than I was but not at 100% yet

    OMG not how you want to start out your Friday! I'm so sorry to hear this.

    I don't know what I'd do. I'd be worried I'm sure of that but I don't know what I'd do if in that situation. What else can you do except give her the number for emergency services? She's so far away.
  3. AppleCori

    AppleCori Well-Known Member

    What would there be that you could do, even if you wanted to do something?

    I mean, she is in the hospital, getting her ( real or imagined!) medical needs taken care of.

    If she has to pay the bills, then let her pay them without your help. Maybe she will quit taking unnecessary risks (including not carrying medical insurance) and stop going in for unnecessary treatments if you stop paying the bills.

    She will never stop if you continue to give her the attention (and cash) that she seeks.

    It does seem that she has upped the ante to get your attention.

    That is to be expected.

    Do you have unlimited funds?

    Because this will never end as long as you keep giving her money. It is never over, as long as we keep giving them money. What icentive would she have to quit this behavior, if she gets rewarded for it? I mean, it works for her. And if it doesn't, she pivots to an even more horrible story.

    I wonder, if you don't respond, what the next ante will be.
  4. Snow White

    Snow White Temporarily in the Magic Kingdom

    Thanks, ladies for keeping me walking the straight and narrow path of detachment! Of all my emotions, I'm still feeling more 'angry' right now and that helps keep me in check with the enabling.

    This is what I was talking about in my other thread about her making up medical conditions for sympathy, etc. She is such a drain on the medical system. I remember taking her for an endoscopy/colonoscopy about 7 years ago. She was having 'boyfriend' issues at the time. She called the boyfriend from the recovery area, screaming at him because he wouldn't rush to the hospital to see her and that they had admitted her because they found something really bad. Seriously? And I was right there. She had a major rage attack even with the conscious sedation still on board. The ride home from the hospital was a disaster. She jumped out of the van half way home and we had to chase her down. When I was visiting her in Asia last year, she gave me all of her medical receipts/reports to take back with me. She didn't want to be lugging them around. I could not believe the thousands of dollars that she spent for mostly "dehydration" and hypothyroidism-related conditions. I have the test results that state she hasn't had Dengue fever, malaria or endometriosis. She would argue that they were 'false negative' tests.

    So, now Chicken Little has once again said the sky is falling. I'm mad.

    I sent a reply to the FB friend of hers. I hope I did ok. Said, "Thank you for the messages, M. Please tell D that we hope she is feeling better soon. We are praying for a quick recovery. I know you called our house earlier. I'm not able to take calls at the moment, as I'm at an out-of-office event."

    We'll see what happens. It is late night over there now. Nothing I can do. I think the frantic phone calls were happening earlier because she is being discharged and she wants money to pay the bill. There have been no more calls for the past hour at my work.

    I imagine the next ante will be that she paid the bill herself but now needs money for a bed and food. Her classic line is, "Parents are supposed to help their children."
  5. AppleCori

    AppleCori Well-Known Member

    Yes, I would refrain from discussing your daughter or any of your daughter's drama with any of her friends. They don't know her like you do, so they can't possibly help you. They can only serve to make you feel "ganged up on", though that is probably not their intention.

    It may be what your daughter wants you to feel though. Having her acquaintances contact you for her probably makes you feel embarrassed and needing to do something to fix the situation. This probably intentional. She wants you to feel pressured to fix her problems by exposing it to the world. Don't fall for her traps.

    Remember, if you give her money to help in any way this will be the equivalent of rewarding her behavior, and guarantee that it will happen again.
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  6. recoveringenabler

    recoveringenabler Well-Known Member Staff Member

    That's a horrible way to wake up and start your day.....I'm sorry you had to go through that. I know that sense of dread you're experiencing, I've spent a good amount of time there too. It's good you got to the gym, that helps.

    I agree with the others, don't send money. You've done enough. If she is in the hospital, she is already being treated and if she cannot pay the bill, I imagine the hospital there will make arrangements with her to pay. It is not your responsibility.

    Putting herself in these health crisis' is the next step in her manipulation to get her way. Our adult kids seem to have a handbook for this and your daughter has memorized the chapter on "How to scare your parents into giving you what you want." There may be another chapter after this one, "what to do if your parents don't respond to scaring them about your health." Be prepared.

    Once we refrain from responding, it's pretty remarkable how our adult troubled kids find resources on their own, but their first line of defense is usually US. Allow her to find her own way. That is what adults do. She is an adult.

    If you haven't already, take out your tool box of resources to use when our kids up the ante. First of all, focus on YOU, take care of YOU. If you have a counselor or a place to go to get support, you may want to get yourself there. Balance the fear you feel with self care.

    I think giving her the number for emergency services through our government is a good idea. Someday you won't be around to save her and she will have to figure it out on her own, this is good training for that.

    A standard line many of us use in these types of extreme coercion is, "I love you. I'm confident you can figure this out." Short and to the point. Refrain as much as you can, in these cases, less is better. Don't allow your daughter to drain you emotionally and financially.......I don't know what your financial situation is but perhaps at some point you might tell your daughter that all of your finances are now tied up in retirement funding and you cannot touch it!

    I'd be angry too. You're being manipulated and that feels really bad. Hang in there. Keep posting your way through this and get support.......we're here for you.....
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  7. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    I worked st several hospitals although I want to be clear that it was in the clerical field. However I learned of a strange disorder cslled Manchusens Syndrome where some people love going to hospital and being sick and will even put substances into their body to puzzle medical people so that they can be hospitalized. Many endure exploratory surgery. the point of doing this seems to be that the person craves the attention one gets when one is sick.

    I worked in Admittance and we had a list of known people with Manchusens (and sometimes their fake names) so that we could contact a higher up if one of them tried to be admitted, claiming illness.

    I am not saying your daughter has this affliction. it is just something I know about. Of course, often on top of getting sympathy the person receives money and gifts.

    Your daughter is in the right place if she is truly sick. I'd demand a doctor's note and explanation before I'd even give a penny and even then...any money would include she come back to Canada because she keeps getting sick abroad and the cost is not sustainable for you. This doesnt mean she lives with you. I wouldn't consider it as she is a very clever manipulator and dangerous to your well being and pocket book. She biked all over Asia. She can figure out how to survive on her own in Canada. It may not be a conventional way, but she isnt living a conventional life now either. At least she'd have heakth insurance in Canada.

    I am so sorry you woke up to that. I agree not to talk to her friends who may also be conned and feeling sorry for her because she is a master at playing on the sympatjy of other good people. To me something seems wrong about this, but you know her and I dont.

    Hugs and good vibes and peace to your heart and soul. You need not make any quick decisions. Think on it. She is in good hands...remember thay...even if she is genuinely ill, which is not for certain. Adult kids like this can beggar matter. you are important as is your mental and financial well being. if you become destitute, she is not going to help you. Dont fo it.
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2016
  8. so ready to live

    so ready to live Active Member

    Hi Mcdonna.
    This was a good response, no nonsense and still said you cared. I like "I love you and I'm sure you'll figure this out". We find that any more comment just gives our son something to refute or argue about.

    ..and adults, who are no longer children, need to find resources of their own. We are not those resources any longer nor should we be.
    Our son used this one on us the last time we buckled, in the end it turned out just the same as always-he did nothing for himself except party and take advantage of our "help".

    so agree with this-you would point her to a resource-that's more than enough. Keep strong. You can do this. Prayers.
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  9. Lil

    Lil Well-Known Member

    I guess, in your place, I'd be frantic. But then again, my son is not prone to claim illness and does not like the thought of a hospital at all, so if he's there - I will know it's real. your case: 1) She's in another country thousands of miles away. What can you do? What does she think you can do? Did she leave voice mails? Does she want you to fly out there? For what? I think I would have to answer if she calls, (but that's me - I respond to all my calls and I'm not saying that's a good thing) but if you do, I'd tell her, "You know there's nothing I can do from here. If it's really that serious, give the hospital my number and they will call and keep me updated. But you know it isn't possible for me to just appear at your bedside." 2) So she wracks up hospital bills. So what? You aren't responsible - adult, remember? - and again, she's thousands of miles away. 3) I'd respond to her friends, just so they quit sending messages, with "Thank you for telling me."

    Deep breaths. I hope (for her sake) it really is her playing games - because that means she's not really ill. But if she is playing games, then I'm sorry for you.
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  10. Snow White

    Snow White Temporarily in the Magic Kingdom

    Thanks again, everyone, who reminded that she can figure this out.

    Got a call from my mom, who saw my daughter's latest video posts. Drama at its finest. She did a video 5 hours ago. She now says she has septic shock (earlier it was sepsis) and has been "admitted" but is sitting up on a stretcher in her street clothes. Says she's hooked up to tons of machines. All that's visible in the area is an IV and a blood pressure cuff. Says the hospital is asking for a $1,000 deposit BEFORE she can have a CT scan, which is "imperative to find out the leakage of fluid into my intestines." This sounds so wild - maybe she'll be featured in medical journal because of the complexity of her case.

    She then goes on to ask for money to her GoFundMe account because it seems that her "family" is not picking up any phone calls and she regrets having to suck up her pride to ask for charity. Her "endo sisters" are starting to contribute to her account. Fools. The FB friend has apparently called the Canadian Embassy on her behalf. I see the pattern so clearly now. Everyone jumps on board to 'save her'.

    There were a couple of recordings on the answering machine and a (assumed) hospital staff person saying, "hello". No message. I think she had them call us.

    I bet she's out of hospital now (or within 7 hours - it is 1:30 am there) but she won't let on to anyone. She's there by herself, so she can spin this any way she wants.

    She'd love it if I flew out there but there would be little I could do medically for her. Now that I'm a little more in control, I'd be willing to risk a phone call from her or the hospital (no friends) and hold my ground against giving money.

    You are keeping me strong! Thank you!
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  11. mof

    mof Momdidntsignupforthis

    Do not engage.

    Suspicion is she's getting fluid for dehydration. You never said you wouldn't help...YOU never spoke with her.

    My only response would be, glad medical help was available during your trek. She has to take care of her decisions...she loves the spotlight, and directs at the same time. Well. You have the choice not to tune in and change the channel.

    Hugs to gentle on yourself!
  12. JaneBetty

    JaneBetty Active Member

    Gosh, I agree with the others! She is receiving medical attention, so her immediate needs are taken care of, so I would reiterate my love and support, and praise her for getting help.
    I keep thinking about a previous post of yours when you quoted an email in which she laid out the parameters of how your relationship was going to go, and that you had one last chance. Honestly, like others, I was taken aback by the contempt in the message.
    McDonna, stay strong. You can love without draining your resources.
  13. Mamacat

    Mamacat Active Member

    I'm reading your posts and learning so much. First of all, I'm encouraged in my dealings with my daughter by what you all have to say. Mcdonna, so sorry for what you're dealng with. I'm stil in amazement at what our adult children can do to get what they want. My daughter has been doing it to me for probably 9 years. I believed everything she said; still have a hard time believing the manipulation. Even to the words they use like families are supposed to help each other. That's what families do. Yes, families do help each other, but there's usually some reciprocity and some ounce of respect. Didn't see that much. I'm learning so much from y'all. I'm sorry we all have to deal with this, but it is what it is. Mcdonna I will keep you in my thoughts and send thoughts of strength and clear thinking your way.
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  14. Albatross

    Albatross Well-Known Member

    Good grief, McDonna. It sounds like extremw ramping up to me too. Regardless, what does she expect, other than her equating support with "send me money," which I would think is pretty much the last thing people with septic shock are worried about...

    Just wanted to let you know I am reading along. Sorry you are going through it. Your response to her friend was perfect, in my opinion.
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  15. jetsam

    jetsam Active Member

    i agree your response to her friend was awesome. She is just trying to pull the strings to see how she can make the puppet dance . Yup been there ,done that. They know that their health is something we won't play with, and the thought of them, somewhere out there, alone and sick well we would do whatever it takes...they know it and USE IT against us. just another manipulative tactic to get what they want. UGH!! Is there a slim chance that she is really sick, yes but the operative word here is slim. Im sorry ,my sons antics in the past have me a bit cynical and very sceptic. I know our guilt and fears rule us a lot of the time,but as the others have said there really isn't much you can do anyway. Stay strong
  16. AppleCori

    AppleCori Well-Known Member

    Seems to me that if she really had a serious, mysterious, and complex illness, she would get herself back to Canada immediately, where she would be able to receive top-notch medical care-without having to come up with the money ahead of time.
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  17. pasajes4

    pasajes4 Well-Known Member

    I declare shenanigans
  18. Sister's Keeper

    Sister's Keeper Active Member


    I am a critical care nurse. 1st let me tell you if she had sepsis/septic shock (they are the same) That she would be very, very ill. ICU ill. Multiple IV drips and constant hardline monitoring. She, likely, would not be well enough to be sitting up in bed posting to social media and making a million phone calls. She would be on high doses of strong IV antibiotics (like 3 separate ones) huge amounts of fluid, and medications to maintain her blood pressure. She would have large central lines (big IVs inserted in her chest)

    If her intestines were truly "leaking" into her abdominal cavity she would, indeed, be very ill, and would also, likely, have peritonitis, which is very painful. Not sitting up and posting on social medial painful.

    I think you handled this very well. You told the friend you were concerned and that you were glad she is getting treatment. You were appropriately concerned without sucked in.

    I think maybe it is time for a "little white lie." Next time she asks for money just tell her, "We have been having some financial concerns, I won't be able to give you any financial help in the foreseeable future."

    She doesn't need to know that SHE is your "financial concern." ;)
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  19. GoingNorth

    GoingNorth Crazy Cat Lady

    I've seen sepsis twice. My mother survived it. The antibiotics used are so strong that she had neurological side effects that took months to clear up.

    My best fried died of sepsis. The bacterial toxins destroyed her organs so quickly that there wasn't time for antibiotics to work, if any would've.

    *I've* had peritonitis; yes, due to a "leaking" intestine. I nearly died. It is horribly painful. You are deathly ill, though I had a PICC line in each arm instead of a port. I was terribly ill and in ICU for 6 days. I don't remember much of it because I was kept sedated. I most certainly was too sick to talk to anyone, let alone chat on the phone, type on a computer, text, or even to want to communicate.

    I'm sorta wondering, with your daughter and the type of lifestyle she is likely leading, if she doesn't just need a good "worming".

    I'm serious! My late husband picked up something in South America when he was in the service that laid him out. Turned out to be a protozoal parasite. Treatment for the parasite was basically a walloping dose of goat wormer. He was better within a few days, except for needing to regain lost weight.
  20. Snow White

    Snow White Temporarily in the Magic Kingdom

    Exactly - She thinks she can fleece everyone with her 'vague' terms but she doesn't fool me (or many in our family who are in medical jobs). I think that her lifestyle also makes her sick - she doesn't eat, drink or live a healthy lifestyle. In the past she says she has had pancreatitis, liver disease, kidney disease, ruptured cysts, etc. The only legitimate one she had was an appendectomy. Love the "worming" comment!!!

    Her newest best friend has been busy calling the US Embassy, the Canadian Embassy and now Amnesty International over the perceived "mistreatment" of daughter by the Thai medical system. Friend says, "She has a large infected cyst that has ruptured spilling infected fluid into her abdominal cavity. This requires minimum of 3 days in the hospital with IV antibiotics before they determine if she needs surgery. Operating on her now is not an option. The risk of hitting the cyst and spreading the infection is much too dangerous. The hospital is requiring deposits up front. When she could not provide the $1,000 the first hospital needed to run a CT they refused her care. She collapsed on the bathroom floor and was taken to a regional hospital. Now they are demanding money but have at least given her some medication. They have the right to refuse her care and turn her away. This is honestly a matter of life and death. Leaving the hospital without treatment is not an option."

    This morning, I woke up to this email from my daughter (plus a call from my mom that she was posting my 'insincere comments" on FB) - sure sounds like she has a lot of time to craft these emails:

    Wow! So you couldn't call. Took your sweet time over the past 24 hours to respond, and that's all you have to say to me as I lay in a bed with sepsis? You clearly don't understand the severity of the situation. You didn't offer me ANY form of help. And this is all I get from you?

    Are you KIDDING ME!? I will be going into surgery!

    "We wish you a speedy recovery." Wow. So. Don't ask for my number. Don't bother picking up my many calls.As a matter of fact. Don't do ANYTHING. YOU'RE REALLY GOOD AT THAT.
    This is the blunt honest truth. But we are DONE HERE. You are a neglectful, hateful, selfish bi&#h. And I mean that.The lowest form of a human being. Not only am I completely disgusted by you, but so is everyone else who worked their ASSES off to help me. While you "weren't in the office."

    The fact that you have not offered a flight. Some money for surgery. Or ANYTHING proves that I shouldn't have ever given you another chance. Right now I need all the help that I can get and you left me scrambling! You left me to the :censored2:ing wolves!
    All it takes is 5 minutes to call someone! If you had even CARED to know how I was doing, you would have asked M for my number.

    You love me? Yeah. Funny way of showing it. Love isn't abuse or neglect. Love isn't leaving your daughter in a time of serious need. Love isn't abandonment. Love isn't part time. You are not a mother. You may have brought me into this world but I raised MYSELF to be who I am today. That is something you'll never, ever get credit for.
    You failed horribly as a parent because you're manipulative and abusive. You are only around when it suits your benefit. But when things are hard? You're never around!

    I am :censored2:ing livid!You are supposed to be showing support NOT making me feel worse. But your absence tells me EVERYTHING. The fact that you haven't called tells me EVERYTHING.
    THE FACT THAT YOU STILL HAVE ME BLOCKED ON MESSENGER. TELLS ME EVERYTHING. And you know what? I will NEVER, EVER forgive you for this last stunt you pulled. You had HOW MANY PEOPLE contacting you?

    This is on you. I hope you can live with it. And you better :censored2:ing pray they save my life.

    You broke every chance we ever had at any relationship today. And I don't think you care about that.But truthfully. I feel nothing for you now. You'll be blocked from viewing my pages and don't worry. No one will be contacting you. The same treatment, you've given me.

    Leave me the f*$k alone!

    I can't say this doesn't hurt because it does. I think I actually had the first cry for "me" this morning - all my other ones over the years have been for her.