Need help (or an intervention) - she stepped up her game

[Snow White]

Further to my post above. I need some quick advice.

I just received information that the hospital is trying to reach me. Apparently, the legal representative that was helping her has met with hospital staff/translator. They now all know that she has lied about almost everything. They are worried for her mental state, as they can clearly see there are issues. They want to help.

Do you think it is wise for me to get involved now?

I'm not really sure what I can help with other than to tell them diagnoses, past medications, etc. If daughter doesn't want help, I can't make her take it. I'm also NOT having her back in my house.

 

[ksm]

I would tread lightly... I wouldn't give too much info to any one. You don't know who you can trust. I would tell them how long she has been traveling. What expenses and crisis you have tried to help with. That you are no longer able to help her financially. And maybe direct them to check out her website, FB, and go fund me page.

You might say briefly what concerns you had When she lived with you. I would say you have tried to stay in touch, but you fear being manipulated in to helping...and being taken advantage of...and your mental health and financial welfare was compromised be being so involved.

I would be furious. And overwhelmed. And physically sick.

KSM

 

[mof]

What ksm said....ugh

When my grandmother had a stroke..she was 92, she was a undiagnosed schizophrenic...they to said they felt she needed someone and more help...well...she burned those bridges.

No...you really can't help her.

 

[Snow White]

I would be furious. And overwhelmed. And physically sick.

Yes, ma'am...all of the above. Thanks, ksm and mof - I will keep this in mind if/when I decide to answer the phone. If I do, it will be without opinion or ideas - I will just present some basic facts. They can run with it from there. And I'm not paying for it, either.

She has taken down her GoFundMe pages. I've been blocked on FB from her for several months now. She has deleted her email account (or has blocked me), as my last email to her wishing her a speedy recovery came back undelivered.

Right now she has money. She won't be able to go too far, as she needs her sutures out in a couple more days. She likely won't be able to ride her bike for a bit but that won't stop her for getting on a plane, bus or boat.

 

[AppleCori]

What could the hospital do to help?

If your daughter has Borderline (BPD) (which seems accurate) there is nothing anyone outside of her can do, unless she recognizes the problem and wants help and works hard to change.

As far as I know, there are no medications that would help.

Some countries have a totally different view of human rights than we do, so I would be worried about what powers they may have and what they may be able to do with her.

If anything, I would contact the embassy there in that country, but would not divulge private medical info.

 

[GoingNorth]

Someone needs to get in touch with the US Embassy as it is possible that they might attempt to hold her against her will. I don't know ANYTHING about the current state of mental health care in Thailand, but suspect it isn't even up to US standards and might be far below those.

The other scenario is that they'll hold her until she is recovered from the surgery and deport her.

 

[Snow White]

Someone needs to get in touch with the US Embassy as it is possible that they might attempt to hold her against her will.

Valid point, GoingNorth. She is Canadian. In the larger hospitals, there are mental health services. I tried to get her to get treatment when she was in Thailand the last time but she refused. They had a day program. She is in a larger city with a private and a university teaching hospital.

I will contact Global Affairs Canada (I think I have them on speed-dial) and they will have the Canadian consulate in Thailand communicate with the hospital.

She does have a lawyer there trying to assist her.

 

[Echolette]

Mcdonna, my 22 year old son orbits within about 5 miles of me, and you have more contact with your daughter than I do with him. I too get calls from emergency rooms and crisis centers about him. I used to answer to the best of my ability, giving them his history of diagnoses and medications. Usually he would contradict me, and we would hear no more. My interventions never helped to move things forward one iota. More recently I have come to understand that I actually know nothing..I don't know his motives, I don't know if his diagnoses are accurate, I don't know if he is taking his medications or using drugs. Sometimes he tells me things..I have no idea if they are true or not. In short, anything I might relay to the concerned caller is pretty unfounded. So now I say...I'm sorry, I really do t have enough contact with him to provide you with much information. He does have a history of mental health issues and substance abuse but I do not know where that stands now. Thank you for your efforts on his behalf.
It's really all I can do.
Good luck to you in this difficult journey.

 

[BusynMember]

If her primary problem is borderline, the only one who can help her is her and I doubt Thailand has any idea how to help a borderline even if the person is begging for help (and most never admit they have a problem so it is hard to treat them even in a first world medical community.) medications don't really help borderline although many are given bipolar medications since many borderlines, due to their shocking mood swings, are misdiagnosed as bipolar. In truth, bipolar doesn't cause viciousness. Borderline and all cluster B personality disorders do cause lying, deception, lack of empathy, conning etc.

It is sad to love a borderline. Setting boundaries is self protection. You may want to visit a website called borderlinecentral. It is very good.

 

[recoveringenabler]

I have a friend who travels exclusively through Thailand quite often and she and her husband avail themselves to the Thai medical system which they say is excellent, in some ways better than ours in the US. Much more affordable and my friend also told me that she met many U.S. Doctors who practice in that country because of how much better the system is than ours. I am not sure about mental health issues but I wouldn't worry about her care.

I agree to keep your involvement minimal, I like what ECHO said.

I would be outraged and hurt if my daughter or anyone posted my personal information along with a bunch of lies. Remember what she's done the next time you feel the urge to help her.

 

[RN0441]

My heart goes out to those with mental illness this severe also. What a horrible situation for all.

 

[BusynMember]

The problem with borderline, in any medical system, however, is that it is a personality disorder...i guess it is a mental illness but very few who have it will accept that they are different, let alone mentally ill. They blame others for their problems. Plus they are very unpleasant, even very mean. It is rare to see progress without willful, intensive professional help by the sick person.

It really doesn't matter if they are in the hands of great mental health care. Unless they want help, they repel others and continue outrageous and offensive behavior...coupled with a month or a few months of good behavior which gives loved ones hope. But as soon as the person is opposed or is under pressure or is contradicted it falls into meanness again.

This is a very sad disorder. Everyone suffers. That's why I suggested borderline Central, the forum. Borderline Central is a unique help for those who love somebody who can repeatedly strike out at them for no reason. All the people with borderline loved ones get it. I am not sure anyone else can.

medications can help certain symptoms, like anxiety, but not the behavior. Until maybe two years ago the psychiatric community deemed it incurable. It is still not easy to help not widely understood and getting better demands extremely hard work and determination by the patient.

Tears for all who suffer.....

 

[Albatross]

Ugh, McDonna. I just wanted to ditto the above posters. I think your best bet is to keep your involvement to a minimum. I am not sure what they can do for your daughter. Many hugs to you tonight. What a difficult situation.

 

[pasajes4]

The postings about your cruel treatment was predictable. It is found on page 101 of the difficult child handbook. This will now be followed by various rantings against the medical staff as they begin to cut off the morphine and treat her with less concern because they are onto her.

I would not give too much information to the staff. I would let them know that because she is an adult your sphere of influence or support is severly limited.

 

[Kathy813]

mcdonna, I would be furious if I got that email. First of all, people with sepsis are too sick to write an email like that. My father died of a sepsis infection and he was in no shape to email hateful messages.

That email sounds exactly like the ones I used to get from my daughter. She is pouring on guilt and hoping you fall for it. Also, what is she writing the email on? Does she have access to a computer in her hospital bed?

You may have brought me into this world but I raised MYSELF to be who I am today. That is something you'll never, ever get credit for.

Um, I would say by all means let her take the credit for how she is acting.

Stay strong and keep firm boundaries.

~Kathy

 

[GoingNorth]

My mother nearly died of sepsis in her mid-seventies, and was never the same after that. The sepsis and the strong medications seemed to be the beginning of serious aging for her.

My BFF died of sepsis last Dec. She was deemed cured twice and sent home from hospital. It came back twice. The 2nd time, it attacked so viciously that it destroyed her organs, including her brain, before the latest antibiotics had time to start to work.

PSA: please read up on the early signs of sepsis and if you experience any of them, get to an ER immediately. You CAN often be saved, but you and medical personnel have to act quickly.

 

[in a daze]

We were talking about this at work, the early identification of sepsis. There is "cold sepsis" and "hot" sepsis. Chills, in the elderly, even without fever, can be a sign.

My dad, post cardiac bypass, had this manifestation. My sister and I, both RN's, suspected something was up. I got him in that day for his post op check up, but the PA blew it off, and he ended up in the ER that evening with urosepsis, as we suspected.

 

[GoingNorth]

We were talking about this at work, the early identification of sepsis. There is "cold sepsis" and "hot" sepsis. Chills, in the elderly, even without fever, can be a sign.

My mother had shaking chills or "rigors", sweating, extreme weakness/faintness, and vomiting.

My friend had been fighting UTIs for a couple of years, and being pigheaded and not finishing doctor's orders as re: finishing antibiotics and followup cultures, and I suspect very strongly that in her case the sepsis was from chronic Urinary Tract Infection (UTI). She had neurogenic bladder for MS which likely contributed to the kidney infections. She was in her early seventies, with mental illness complicated by the onset of dementia. Just generally a bad scene.

 

[Snow White]

Thanks for your thoughts, ideas and friendly concern - it is so appreciated. Also, good reminder of the sepsis symptoms - my mom is elderly and 4 years post quadruple bypass. You never know. Thanks, SWOT, for the reminder about borderlinecentral. I've been there in the past but will definitely revisit it today.

Daughter's world is about to come to a crashing halt. She doesn't know it yet. I did talk with the Thai lawyer last night. She is concerned, practical and helpful. Daughter's previous arrest in Thailand (where I bailed her out by paying for all the damage she caused at a hotel) in July is also going to come into play now. She is still in the hospital. They are taking good care of her and the lawyer has a psychiatrist coming to see her today (if not already with the time zone difference).

The lies have all surfaced: There was no sepsis/septic shock. There are no post-op complications. She was not going to die. She will not go to jail if she can't pay her medical bills. All lies.

Her gofundme accounts have been shut down. All monies are being refunded to the donors.

The lawyer is balancing daughter's needs vs public safety & welfare. They will try to initiate some treatment there, following which daughter will most likely be deported and her Thai visa cancelled permanently.

I have already told the lawyer that daughter is not allowed to return to live in our home. Lawyer said they would work with the Canadian embassy, when it comes time for that. I also told the lawyer that we are not paying for anything - she has depleted our savings. If she is going to be sent back to our city, I'm thinking I might go to court to have involuntary admission forms done up. She will then be back in the mental health system here and she can choose where her path goes from there.

The lawyer and other people involved believe she needs to be in a mental health facility. I don't think they understand her diagnosis. They are seeing one crisis episode and most likely think it is bipolar disorder. She did have some improvement when she was on valproic acid and Seroquel but discontinued medications when she turned 18. She now self medicates off and on with alcohol and drugs. I agree with all of you that SHE needs to be in continual treatment for her disorder.

I'm just waiting now for the dominoes to start moving. I'm sure daughter will be in contact then. I will keep strong and keep handy the last email she sent me (in addition to the many others). I think this is the wake-up call she has been needing for a long time.

 

[pasajes4]

I truly hope she wakes up. In all probability she will morph and go to a whole new level and come up with another scam.