Need some advice please

[StressedM0mma]

difficult child is having such a hard time in the morning getting moving. I had to threaten taking away riding lessons today to get her up. She is near tears every morning. She just keeps repeating that she just can't do it, that it is just too much. But, when we try to make things easier on her like having her drop her first period class, she refuses. I am at a loss as to what to do. Right now I am doing the encouraging you can do it route, but it is stressing me out every morning. I really do not want to have to go the police route, at least not yet.
I really think she is just so anxious, and overwhelmed. And, I just don't have a clue as to how to help. Any ideas or suggestions?
by the way, she got enough sleep last night. She went to bed at 9:45 and got up at 6:45.

 

[InsaneCdn]

Please don't use the riding lessons as a threat - she NEEDS those.
Are you keeping a daily log? May come in handy as you work through things.

Getting "enough" sleep is a complex issue... one night doesn't make up for multiple previous bad ones.
And enough "quantity" doesn't mean she's getting "quality" sleep, either.
Plus... the depression has a huge impact on this.

What kinds of things does she like that are "stimulating"? Really up-beat music (I'm thinking marching-bands, that kind of stuff)... there's aromatherapy, as well - I don't know which are stimulating, but certain essential oils will be. (I had to search for the reverse... for calming)

 

[StressedM0mma]

IC, once the riding came out of my mouth I was trying to push it back in. We had always said that we would not use those. I have not kept a daily log. That is a great idea. I will start one, and see if I can find a pattern. I wonder if she would make a morning playlist for me? And I will look up aroma therapy. I have only ever heard of the calming ones. We have her sleep study on Tues.-Weds. I really hope that it shows something.

 

[susiestar]

What are they treating her anxiety with? School avoidance/refusal is a complex problem and anxiety can be a huge part of that. I would do the stimulating morning music, a cup of coffee if it won't make her more anxious, essential oils (you can google to find stimulating ones - I think lemon and mint esp peppermint. Peppermint has been shown to make people more alert on tests), etc...

The more you buy into her reasons for the problems, the more you think she can't do it, the less able she will be to do it. I don't mean be cold hearted, but try insisting that you know she can, and she has to go until X time and then if she is still hahving huge problems she can call you. NOT you will go get her, she can CALL you. THen you try to talk her through it.

The sleep study should be very helpful if it is done properly. I am sorry things are so hard.

 

[StressedM0mma]

Susie, She is taking 40mg. Celexa. They just upped her to 40 a few days ago, so we are not seeing the full effects yet. I offer her coffee but she doesn't want any.

I am trying very very hard to separate from the issue. I know she can do it, I just don't know how to convince her of it. We had the discussion yesterday, that if she becomes overwhelmed at school, to text or call, and I will talk to her or come up to school to talk with her. She knows that she has to stay all day. It is just so hard. And frustrating.

 

[TeDo]

Stressed, my kids are SLEEPING by 9:30 every night and because they do school from home, I let them get up when they want. difficult child 2 is NEVER up before 9:00 and difficult child 1 is generally around 8:00. Just thought I'd give you a different perspective.

Another thought that came to mind as I was reading this is the vicious mental cycle she's stuck in. She doesn't want to drop classes or class levels because she's ambitious and KNOWS she can do it but she is so far behind because of all this stuff she can't control which makes her angry and depressed which causes her to not be able to get up or function very well which makes you miss more school/school work and the cycle starts all over again. I can just imagine the EXTREME anxiety and depression she must be feeling half the time. Add to that whole drama the fact that more demands are being made on your time and you go along with it because you WANT to get better and get back to your normal life but you just can't do it.

I have no clue if this is anywhere close to her reality but it made sense to me and made me feel very sorry for her. I really hope the sleep study shows something. But, if it doesn't maybe her bedtime and wake-up time need to be adjusted. Earlier bedtime and take that first class off the table so she can sleep longer. Getting the less homework into the IEP will also help a lot.

{{{{(((HUGS)))}}}} to you both!

 

[TerryJ2]

The only way I get my son up is to cook something he absolutely loves, offer to take him to McD's or Starbucks, or tell him there is a phonecall (that only works once or twice and then they check the Caller ID and see that the last call was a telemarketer on Christmas Eve, lol!).
The main thing that gets my son up is his girlfriend. He knows he will at least see her in the hallway at school.
We still have the problem, although it is getting slightly better.
medications can make a diff. I don't know if her medications are making her sleepy.
Is she grumpy or more anxious when she first wakes up? I know, sometimes it's impossible to tell the difference.

 

[StressedM0mma]

Terry it is definitely anxiety. I can almost feel it. I wish that we had a boyfriend to motivate! I don't think it is the medications. She was on Celexa prior to June '11 and she could get up without a problem. I could be wrong though. She is on ablilify 10mg at night. I know it makes her sleepy, but by morning it should be better. I just think it is that pre-worry. And, unfortunately I do the same thing. I just feel bad. I want so much to fix this for her, but I know she needs to do the work to get better. I am trying to "cheer" her on when she is heading out the door, telling her how proud I am of her, and that she did a great job. I know it sounds lame, but I don't know what else to do. I am just hoping that she makes it all day today.

 

[pepperidge]

Are you at the beginning or middle or end of the semester? I would tell her that for one semester she is going to have a reduced load. You need to be the parent and step up. She can go to summer school or whatever if she needs to. Give her something she can cope with successfully and I bet the anxiety will be reduced. I don't think she is in a place where she is capable of making a decision in her best interest. Then work with those teachers to get an appropriate workload. Get an 504 based on the hospital discharge plan immediately. You can then sue (not that you would) if they don't move their fannies to get an appropriate workload.

 

[DaisyFace]

You need to be the parent and step up.... Give her something she can cope with successfully and I bet the anxiety will be reduced. I don't think she is in a place where she is capable of making a decision in her best interest.

I agree with this.

I would also suggest that you (as the parent) make a decision as to what your priority is right now in regards to education. Is your priority to have difficult child attend the public school at whatever level - or is your priority to have difficult child succeed in the advanced classes? Do you need to have difficult child adapt to school - or do you need school to be adapted to difficult child?

Roughly half the school year has already passed....what is your goal for the remainder of the year?

If you really think anxiety or a health issue is causing the sleep problems, I think you should look into homeschooling. Especially the online "virtual school" versions where YOU are not the teacher. difficult child can take advanced classes on HER schedule...and if need be, she can extend her school year well into the summer.

 

[Otto von Bismark]

I agree with this.

I would also suggest that you (as the parent) make a decision as to what your priority is right now in regards to education. Is your priority to have difficult child attend the public school at whatever level - or is your priority to have difficult child succeed in the advanced classes? Do you need to have difficult child adapt to school - or do you need school to be adapted to difficult child?

Roughly half the school year has already passed....what is your goal for the remainder of the year?

If you really think anxiety or a health issue is causing the sleep problems, I think you should look into homeschooling. Especially the online "virtual school" versions where YOU are not the teacher. difficult child can take advanced classes on HER schedule...and if need be, she can extend her school year well into the summer.

We home school one of our kids. It is not everybody's answer, and it can take about a year (in our experience) to get used to it.
It might be something to look into, but you need to be a good taskmaster/motivator, or she needs to be a good self-starter. It might make sense if she is not socially connected at school and if the anxiety really gets the best of her. I would be concerned that having her home could be harder on the depression if she is a social kid who has friends. I noticed that I do really need to work hard to keep my daughter socially engaged, even though she is a kid who doesn't need a lot of friends. I wouldn't call her a loner, but she is happy with a few good friends who have similar interests that involve animals.

The do have good virtual school stuff out there, and if she does take pride in her studies, this can help her feel good about scholastic accomplishments.
For us, it is difficult, but worth it. There are drawbacks, but the plusses are greater.

 

[StressedM0mma]

Thanks everyone. Otto you are right. Online school is not a good option right now for her. We feel that if we let her stay home, she will never learn how to handle the anxiety. And, she has told us that she wants to stay in school. She enjoys seeing her friends. And we want her to continue that connection. We have spoken to all of her tdocs and psychiatrists and they feel that we should not step in and force her to drop the classes. That she needs to. She has stayed all day today. I am going to let her know how happy I am. I know how hard it is to stay somewhere when you are in the middle of a panic attack. There were times in the past when I left a full grocery cart in the aisle, just to be able to get home.

 

[somerset]

Celexa can be sedating. I had to stop taking it because it took away what little energy I had. difficult child couldn't handle 30 mgs - she was sleeping 14 hrs a day again. We went back down to 20.

 

[StressedM0mma]

Hmm. I do not know about the Celexa. She was on 40 mg. for a couple of years before the pediatrician took her off of it. And, she didn't have these problems. Her pediatrician. had mentioned that if we couldn't figure it out, and the sleep study couldn't find anything, that this spring he would consider adding a stimulant. I am a little nervous about that. Are there any contra indications with a stimulant and antidepressant? And/or mood stabilizer? I guess we will see.

 

[susiestar]

I don't fully agree with the tdocs and psychiatrists. I think she needs a plan. You give her a set time frame to work through this (end of 3rd quarter?) and if she isn't doing a lot better then YOU step in and do what she seems to be UNABLE to do - lighten her load. in my opinion the advanced classes are going to give a LOT of problems with lessening her workload. The classes are designed for kids who are able to cope with the increased workload. They are generally limited in size and they have regular classes for those who can't keep up. I don't say that this is RIGHT - just that it is what the school will say. You can push, but they are going to fight bigtime because if one student does less work then lots push for it, or kids who can't keep up with the workload then say they are discriminated against because this or that.

Again, I don't think it is RIGHT - but it is probably the reality that you will face.

At some point we have to step in and say "this isnt' working. You are doing all you can, and now it is time for me to be the Mom. It is my JOB to make sure you are not in over your head and now, you are. We have tried to get other things to help, but enough it enough. You can be mad at me if you need to be. But this is what we are doing." and then you cut her course load to what she can handle. She can try again with the advanced classes next year or the year after or in college. She can even "prove you wrong" by doing online classes over the summer if she is able to handle it. Or take a college class at a local jr college or even 4 yr univ over the summer. There is plenty of time for her to get the advanced stuff. Right now she has to function - period. What good is any of the advanced stuff if it pressures her so much she can't function at all?

I understand why the psychiatrists and tdocs want her to handle it - but they don't see the problems 24/7 and they don't have your instincts. So set that timeline, even if it is just in your head and you don't discuss it with her because it will pressure her more, and then, do what the instincts say.

The times I made the biggest, most awful mistakes with my kids are always the times I listened to the "experts" and not MY expert instincts. Those instincts are there for a REASON - to help you do what is best for your child. Period. The tdocs and psychiatrists don't have that instinctual wisdom and should be considered as giving advice, NOT orders. in my opinion anyway.

 

[StressedM0mma]

Susie right now I feel like I can't trust any of my instincts. I see her hurting, whether it is real or her mani[ulation, and I just want to keep her home with me. It is so hard for me to force her to get out of bed and go to school each day. It is something I am trying very hard to distance from. I want for her to be successful. But I want her to be less anxious. And, that seems to be by staying home. And, I know it isn't the answer, but it is what I would love for her to do.

 

[DaisyFace]

Susie right now I feel like I can't trust any of my instincts. I see her hurting, whether it is real or her mani[ulation, and I just want to keep her home with me. It is so hard for me to force her to get out of bed and go to school each day. It is something I am trying very hard to distance from. I want for her to be successful. But I want her to be less anxious. And, that seems to be by staying home. And, I know it isn't the answer, but it is what I would love for her to do.

Stressed--

SHE wants to be home. YOU want her to be home. You CAN school from home. She CAN take advanced classes from home.

What, exactly, is your goal here?

Is your goal "public school no matter what" or "academic success" ? At the moment - these two seem like mutually exclusive ideals.


Just to give you an idea of where I am coming from:

difficult child - our goal was "public school no matter what". We needed difficult child to interact with other people, other authority figures, learn to navigate relational situations, follow rules, etc - plus we needed a break from her. It was important to get her to school every day...and she was getting there even if I had to drag her by the hair!

DS - our goal was "academic success". He has ADHD...he needed a certain type of learning environment. When we moved and toured the new school and spoke to the teachers? I knew there was no way he was going to do well academically in that environment - PLUS it would probably start a whole host of other issues. So we have homeschooled him for the last two years...with the intent to send him back to public school eventually.



Susie is right...you need to do what you feel is best for your daughter. She CAN she home now and go back to public school later, if that's what your instincts are telling you....but you have to be "official" about it or she'll be truant.

 

[StressedM0mma]

Daisy, my difficult child is like yours. I need her to go to school. As much as I want her to be home, it is not going to help her. She needs to be around other people. And, she has NO self motivation, so she would not complete any work if she were home-schooled. Whether it be digital or me teaching her. And, I do need her gone during the day. I just really need some pointers on encouraging her to get up and out the door, and how to fight though the exhaustion and get moving. I am giving her small rewards each day she does it. Yesterday we went for smoothies, and today she asked if she could get an icecream from her favorite place. I feel like I am treating her a little babyish, but she is looking forward to these things. So... and, we told her if she could be on time all this week and next week that husband would replace one of her computer games that she wants. Bribery is ok right???

 

[DaisyFace]

Daisy, my difficult child is like yours. I need her to go to school. As much as I want her to be home, it is not going to help her. She needs to be around other people. And, she has NO self motivation, so she would not complete any work if she were home-schooled. Whether it be digital or me teaching her. And, I do need her gone during the day. I just really need some pointers on encouraging her to get up and out the door, and how to fight though the exhaustion and get moving. I am giving her small rewards each day she does it. Yesterday we went for smoothies, and today she asked if she could get an icecream from her favorite place. I feel like I am treating her a little babyish, but she is looking forward to these things. So... and, we told her if she could be on time all this week and next week that husband would replace one of her computer games that she wants. Bribery is ok right???

Ah, gotcha!

Well...in our situation bribery never worked. difficult child always valued being in control more than she valued outside "rewards"....so it's a little different over here.

We had to make sure the school was disciplining for every missed class (difficult child used to skip and/or leave early a lot) and we told difficult child that we would call the police for school refusal. (We've called police on other issues...so she knows we aren't bluffing on that.) And when difficult child would stay up late and had "trouble waking up for school", husband would give her one warning...and then come into her room with a bucket of ice. And yes - she got "iced" a morning or two. {{Gosh - we sound like terrible parents...don't we??}}

Don't let me kid you....it was tough. That whole freshman year was a nightmare. For Pete's sake - just go to school!!! Stay in school! Learn something!!! ARRGGHH!

But today - difficult child knows there is no excuse. She puts herself to bed early so she can get up early. And she has not skipped ANY classes (yet) this year...not one.

So that's how we handled it... I'm sure it sounds terribly cruel - but it WORKED!