Need some perspective

HMBgal

Well-Known Member
I was so excited that it looked my grandson finally had found a friend. He also has issues, an adoptee, and the adopted mom is a child psychologist. Kind of perfect, right? The boys would go fishing together, to the park, an odd kid but I like him. Grandson has been trying to call him to invite him to go to a swimming place for the day. We all go as a family and it's really nice. But the phone calls weren't returned.

We get a text from the Mom saying that she would like to talk with us about something disturbing that happened between the two boys. My heart sank into my shoes. The boy (he's 12) says that grandson asked to see the boy's penis, touch it, wanted him to do the same, and put his mouth on him, and that he had sex with a girl while at school. My grandson is 11, just entering into puberty. He got into trouble showing kids porn on his computer about three years ago.

I don't even know how to approach this with grandson. I do believe the other boy. And before I jump to the conclusion that grandson is a predator and needs to be as far away from me and his sister (she's 9) as possible, am I overreacting? I remember pee pee play as a youngster and I grew up mostly okay (I guess).

So back to being horrified, embarrassed, how much do I lock this kid down, what kind of help do I get for this? Do I even let him out of the house? My stomach hurts and I'm having a hard time looking at him. He knows Pop Pop and I are upset and acting weird but he doesn't know why.
 

runawaybunny

Administrator
Staff member
Oh my. Very difficult situation. In my humble opinion you are not overreacting.

I have no idea what I'd do here and have no wise adice to offer, just know that you have my support. Seems like it's time to seek some professional help for this poor boy.

Hopefully someone will come along and offer better ideas than I have. Just offering you a :::gentlehug:::
 

Wish

Active Member
Oh my goodness. Before anything, did the mother say that touching actually happened or was it just talked about by your grandson?


Edit: Not that it's any less serious if it was "just talked about", but I think it's important to know before we give advice if something actually did happen physically.
 

AppleCori

Well-Known Member
Hi HMBgal,

I don’t have any experience or advice, but I did want to offer support for you and your family.

I don’t think you are overreacting, given your grandson’s history with this kind of thing, and the details of what he said to the other child.

A lot of kids in the old days did the you-show-me-yours-and-I-will-show-you-mine, but this is taken to a whole other level. Plus, we were less likely to have been exposed to porn, which is so much more available now.

I am thinking your grandson has a counselor, right? Would you be able to talk to them tomorrow and get some advice on how to handle this? Maybe even the three of you (yourself, grandpa, counselor) sitting with him and discussing it together? Find out how she views this. If, by chance, the counselor tries to sweep this under the rug, I would find someone else in a hurry.

I hope this gets addressed before it has a chance to escalate. I am concerned about what may have happened with the girl he talked about.

I would make sure that he isn’t alone with his sister, just to make sure she stays safe. I would keep a close eye on him for the foreseeable future, so you can be sure as possible that nothing else happens, and he isn’t exposed to porn.

Very sorry for all involved.

Apple
 

Wish

Active Member
I am just going to assume for the moment that there was no touching just so I can go ahead and answer because I might not have anytime later.

First I want to say that my heart is with the mother of your grandson's friend. I am sure she is very disturbed (I know I would be) about what happened to her son and that is a very understandable feeling. Very good on him for telling an adult what happened. I am so sorry they had to go through something like that and with her being a child psychologist, she just might try and report it, so be aware of that.

But, as far as your grandson goes, I always say, innocent until proven guilty. So you really need to find out the truth is here. Give your grandson a chance at least by trying to discover the truth because that is one big massive accusation. Kids finding porn on the computer and showing friends isn't probably the most uncommon thing in the world, especially in this day in age with all the technology, so let's try not to hold that past against him in this scenario so hard just yet.

If it is discovered that your grandson did infact say what he was accused of saying, then my first question would be....is he gay? And if so, was this his way of experimenting? Would this have been just as egregious if this were a boy and a girl instead of a boy and a boy? Yes, they are pretty young, but still, they are at that age where kids do start having romantic and sexual feelings and kids their age (not all, but certainly some) do act upon these feelings with each other, so maybe that's what your grandson was trying to do and didn't take into consideration that his friend may not have been gay? Maybe it didn't even occur to him to ask if he was gay or not?

So I don't know, but I would do more investigating before you label your grandson as a predator and then when you found out all that you could, then go and seek help from there.

I can feel how traumatizing this is for you all. Sending big hugs your way, really and truly.
 

HMBgal

Well-Known Member
As far as I know, it was just talk. As far as is he gay or not, I have no idea if that is something he is wondering about or not. My stepdaughter is gay, married, and has a daughter. We are all very close, very socially liberal in our ideas so however that works out is fine.

It never occurred to me that the mother would report it; I'm a mandated reporter as part of my job description, so I get it. She was very professional and calm, but her little boy has lots going on in his life, too, so I can imagine she's not happy about it. If she does, she does.

Yes, he a mostly medical/drug management therapist that he sees bi-weekly, but not much talk therapy there. There is a mental health counselor at school who is a kind, very young, childless, sweet soul and likes my grandson. I'm afraid to drop this bomb in the middle of all the other issues he and the other kids in his class are having. He's in a special day class for emotionally and behaviorally disturbed kids. The teacher is on her way out this year and has not been asked back. She has a transgender daughter with an intellectual impairment in another special day class at that school. Grandson has said some bad things to her (don't know what, teacher wouldn't say). The girl and grandson have long since made up and are friendly but there is no love lost between the teacher and grandson. School is out in two weeks and I'm afraid of rocking the boat. I'm gutted. Again.

We watch grandson and his sister like hawks. He doesn't seem to bother with her all that much. They love each other and are protective and squabble like siblings do, but we don't let that go on. We like a peaceful household and nip discord in the bud. We never have left them alone at the house, even for a short run to the store. I don't trust his judgement not to do get into something.
 

RN0441

100% better than I was but not at 100% yet
Ugh so hard to know what to do.

My youngest son one time went to a friends to play from preschool - I was there too talking with the mom the entire time - and they were in the boys room. They had to be about 4-1/2 years old. The father was a firefighter and the mom was really nice and had an infant also. I know the dad was away a lot for work.

My son had wanted to leave pretty quickly but I figured it was anxiety and got him resettled. The other boy seemed pretty aggressive/loud.

When we left my son told me he did not want to go there anymore. He said the boy asked him to play "butts and weenies". HUH??? I said what is that? And he said something about he wanted to show him his pee pee or something. Nothing happened and I did not tell the boy's mother because I didn't even know what to tell her and she seemed overwhelmed with the new baby and husband gone so much. I did not let my son play there again.

Years later another incident is when a school friend kept grabbing my son's crotch. I did tell that boy's mother and it turned out that the boy had it happen to him from other kids so who even knows what that was about.

I guess I'm saying that things do happen with kids. They are curious by nature. But I agree with the other posters as how to handle it.
 

BloodiedButUnbowed

Well-Known Member
So sorry to hear this news. How upsetting for both families involved.

Can your grandson begin seeing a psychologist for talk therapy? A skilled psychologist might be able to ferret out whether or not his issues are truly just pubescent curiosity (perhaps helped along by exposure to porn) or perhaps something more serious. I would think this issue is beyond the ken of a counselor at his school - though I may be wrong.

Are you monitoring your grandson's use of devices and social media? That would be my first step if it was me.
 

HMBgal

Well-Known Member
Hi BBU. Yes, we monitor to the extent that we can. He has to use his tablet out in the family areas (dining and living rooms), etc. And he has no facebook, snapchat, etc. He has no friends so no texting or messaging of any kind. He's pretty isolated from his peers, not by lack of social media but because of his own behaviors. Grandson doesn't have a phone and we won't allow it. He has one of those Gizmo Gadget wristwatches that makes and receives calls to pre-approved people and has a GPS in it so we know where he is. And if he tried to disable it or make the excuse that it turned off accidentally, etc, he's housebound for the next day or two

When we talked with grandson about the incident with the other 12 year old boy, he denied it (of course, but we don't believe him for a second) and said that this kid tried to show him porn on his phone (grandson is master at gaslighting and deflection--we aren't fooled). This other boy definitely has issues of his own as well, but we are going to believe that it happened the way the boy said it did. .

As far as talk therapy goes, we haven't had much luck. Insurance changes every three months because the father can't keep a job and he's providing the insurance. He doesn't pay any child support--moved away with all his other kids to another state and stopped paying immediately after that. But, he keeps getting other jobs with benefits (he has three stepchildren and three of his own) so stuff keeps getting derailed and interrupted. And child psychiatrists are extremely hard to find around here. So we find that we are always starting over again. And I can't afford the $250-350 per session on my teacher's salary. And I'm retiring next year to start being around and helping more, so our income will take a huge hit.
 

HMBgal

Well-Known Member
RNN0441, I'm sorry that happened to your son, and I can remember people messing with me as a child. My father was in the service, I was left alone wandering the neighborhoods and playgrounds and I was victimized several times by adult men. I kept it a secret, but they didn't physically hurt me, so I still at 65 years old don't quite know what to make of it. Nobody ever talked about stranger danger or anything like that.

I can see little kids "playing doctor" etc, but grandson is almost 12. And I'm not sure he hasn't been messed with in some way--it's totally possible and kids don't tell. And I also know that middle schoolers are often very active sexually, especially oral sex. I can't even.
 

AppleCori

Well-Known Member
RNN0441, I'm sorry that happened to your son, and I can remember people messing with me as a child. My father was in the service, I was left alone wandering the neighborhoods and playgrounds and I was victimized several times by adult men. I kept it a secret, but they didn't physically hurt me, so I still at 65 years old don't quite know what to make of it. Nobody ever talked about stranger danger or anything like that.

I can see little kids "playing doctor" etc, but grandson is almost 12. And I'm not sure he hasn't been messed with in some way--it's totally possible and kids don't tell. And I also know that middle schoolers are often very active sexually, especially oral sex. I can't even.

I don’t really know what is going on in public schools today, because I homeschool, but what he is doing doesn’t sound healthy or normal. There is no knowing at this point whether he has had a bad experience, exposure to porn, or there is some other reason this is happening.

Could you try and see if there are any counseling services available through the county or state or community? If you explained your situation, maybe they could work with you on a low-or-no cost basis?

Sounds like you could use some help with this, plus his ongoing needs.
 

recoveringenabler

Well-Known Member
Staff member
I'm reading along too HMB. Your commitment to your grandkids is wonderful, I am always impressed with your love and care for your family. Your grandson is fortunate to have you as his advocate. I don't know anything about the issues you're facing.....I'm sure you've explored many options for support for you and your grandson, just throwing out NAMI, the National Alliance on Mental Illness....they offer a lot of help for us and for our loved ones.

Have you tried getting your grandson on Medi-Cal here in CA? He may be eligible on his own without your income......a woman in Social Services helped me to obtain coverage for my granddaughter thru Medi-Cal which covered all of her health and dental needs until she was 19.

Sending prayers for you and your family. :group-hug:
 

BloodiedButUnbowed

Well-Known Member
You are a saint for doing so much for your grandson, HMBGal. I agree that he should be eligible for some kind of medical card, and I hope he can obtain one. Sometimes therapy helps and sometimes it doesn't seem to make much difference, but at the very least, it should be attempted.

Has he taken part in any social skills groups at school?
 

Baggy Bags

Active Member
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that I think at 11yo, if you are inviting a friend to experiment a little, not forcing or coercing, it's okay.

It's very understandable that you would worry about it. And it would probably be a good idea to have a talk with him about what is appropriate and what isn't, how to be safe, respecting the other person... Sounds like the other boy was uncomfortable and able to express it. No harm done, in my opinion, as long as the adults don't make it a bigger deal than it sounds like it was.
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
I agree.

Same sex experimentation or desire does not make somebody gay.

If there was no forcing, while I see this as sensitive, I do not see this as crisis territory.

I do not think you are overreacting. He seems pressured by his sexuality, and not know how to contain it, I think, in ways that protect him. I do think he could benefit from some kind of counseling, or you could benefit to know how to guide him. And in case he has a history of molest that is fueling this. And with your history (I have the same) it has to be triggering.

But I am now reading the part about the insurance instability.

What about 12 step groups? For you for sure. You will get fellowship and be able to talk things through. There is al a teen for his age group. He is almost old enough.

The thing is to normalize this. With this I agree with baggy. First of all because this incident may have been a request to experiment only. He may have to learn how to more effectively or appropriately express his needs or not

So I am saying something radical here. This is a kind of gift. That can permit healing too. By letting air in. For each of us.

I would google sexual acting out by 12 year old. What to do. And see if there are online resources.
 
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BusynMember

Well-Known Member
I am late here but had a really bad experience with an 11 year old foster boy. He molested my babies for three years and they were too scared of him to tell us. He said he was the devil and he would kill us all and himself if they ever told. He also said he was crazy and would kill us by burning the house down. He acted like an angel around adults so we didn't even suspect. When he was finally caught we were horrified and appalled and he left right away.

For this reason, I am always very very careful with a "naybs yes, maybe no" regarding inappropriate sex. I would not allow him alone with any young kids. A child his own age has more power, like the one who did tell his mother on him. Although not all kids do.

I would take it seriously. This is not normal sex play. He is way past the age of innocently asking to see a wee wee. He is almost a teenager.

My 11 year old, 13 when caught was charged with sexual assault and found guilty. It was not our idea. It came from law enforcement. In his case he was treated as an adult because he molested a child six years younger than himself. But if your son were to touch any child against his will at his age it could be seen as a sex crime.

This boy I speak of had to sign up as a sexual predator.

Don't take chances or assume he is okay. Don't be like us. It was only the help we got and the strong family bond that kept us tight and together.

Be well. And be vigilant.
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
I agree with swot to a point.

However. There is a divide between sexual predation of younger children and a verbal request of a same age peer.

To make these the same is to make all of us victims and perpetrators.

Which is not to say this should not be taken seriously. As parents we are required to have vigilance and to take responsibility. These kids, potentially vulnerable either to their own or to others 'sexuality, need us to stay present and to not fall into fear or denial.
 
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