neuropsychologist results...sigh

Discussion in 'The Watercooler' started by DammitJanet, May 12, 2009.

  1. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Cant update on my other post because of all Stars

    I was administered the: Wechsler Test of Adult Reading, Wechsler Adult Intelligence Scale, Conners Continuous Performance Test, California Verbal learning test, Brief Visuospatial Memory Test, portions of the Wechsler Memory Scale, Rey Complex Figure Tes and Recognition Trial, Boston Naming Test, Judgement of Line Orientation Test, Hooper Visiual Organization Test, Wisconsin Card Sorting Test and portions of the Delis-Kaplan Executive Function System.

    Behavioral Observations
    This patient was on time and appropriately dressed for appointments. She was pleasant and cooperative. Her affect was good and she was socially appropriate. She was somewhat anxious at times. Thre were no signs of hallucinations or delusions. Her thoughts were somewhat tangential, but generally organized and coherent.

    Her speech was fluent, without significant word finding or paraphasic errors. She was able to understand task instructions, but sometimes would need information repeated and clarified. She appeared to get overwhelmed when provided with multistep directions and would start asking questions about the task before the instructions were completed.

    Here processing speed was variable, and she appeared to be slower later in the sessions. In addition, she was very slow to make decisions regarding her answers and at times, needed encouragement to provide responses. It was very evident that she researches information about her difficulties and often uses techincal terms to describe her symptoms. Sometimes the terms indicate a more severe difficulty than is actually the case. She does seem to be hypervigilant, over-interpreting and overdiagnosing her symptoms at times.

    Test results.

    The WTAR came out as 105 and her Best guess of where I was before all this based on her crystal ball was a 113. But I know my IQ was somewhere around 138 when I was tested years ago.

    The WAIS gave me a Verbal IQ of 100 and a Performance IQ of 94 for a Full scale score of 98.


    Vocab 12
    similarities 11
    arithmatic 10
    digit span 7
    picture completion 11
    digit symbol coding 9
    block design 8
    matrix reasoning 11
    information 11
    letter/number sequencing 9
    picture arrangement 7
    symbol search 9

    Index scores
    Verbel Comprehension 107
    Perceptual Organization 99
    Working Memory 92
    Processing Speed 93

    In visual memory and learning this patient demonstrates in the moderately impaired range.


    I really am not all that impressed with her. She seemed to think I should be jumping over the moon to find out I am "average" ! She actually stated that I did better than anyone else she has tested on one test...the Boston Naming test. Oh goody...I know what pictures It was pictures of things like boats and guitars and things like that. I missed one. I got the compass and the protrator mixed I do have problems finding my words. Anyone who knows me ...Knows that! Heather can tell you It may not be as bad as a stroke victim but it is bad. No one lets me count money anymore because I consistently miscount it.

    Im not impressed with neuropsychs.
  2. gcvmom

    gcvmom Here we go again!

    Try not to get too discouraged, Janet. One tester does not equal the whole lot of them -- you know that. As for how you scored now versus way back when... you've been through a LOT in the last year, and that could have some bearing on your scores. I think the main thing is to look at where you're struggling (like the processing) and work with your doctors to see if and how you can improve that. Also, I could be wrong, but I remember reading that our IQ can fall as we age. Whatever. It doesn't change who you are. The tests just help identify where your strengths and weaknesses are so that you can make and informed decision about your therapy. If you still have the report from previous testing, I think it would be valuable to compare the two with your doctors.
  3. flutterby

    flutterby Fly away!

    Eh. I'm not impressed with her either. She seemed to make a lot of assumptions rather than rely on test scores and factor in where you were before.

    You should come to Ohio and see the guy I saw. I got really lucky with both my neuropsychologist and difficult child's.

    And word finding - between the two of us? :rofl: You can't find the word, I can't either. There's a lot of...I know what you our conversations. :rofl:
  4. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    What really really ticked me off was the fact that she ASSUMED that because I used big words that it meant that I researched things and not that I was just well educated. I think I somewhat intimidated her with my knowledge of psychology and psychiatry. Im sorry, if I have a disease or a disorder I am going to do my own research and know as much as I can about it. I am not going to on blind faith from any doctor about my illness or disorder. I dont think it is wise. I think an informed patient is a good patient. It is my body and my health after all. Does it really matter if I understand what medical terminology means? I mean she didnt like it when I referred to "hypomanic states" or even worse...ultra-radian cycling. Never mind I have been bipolar for I am not stupid and I have had conversations with a psychiatrist or two in my life. Ya think some of my symptoms just may have come up a time or two?

  5. totoro

    totoro Mom? What's a GFG?

    Yeah I loved this statement-

    "It was very evident that she researches information about her difficulties and often uses techincal terms to describe her symptoms. Sometimes the terms indicate a more severe difficulty than is actually the case. She does seem to be hypervigilant, over-interpreting and overdiagnosing her symptoms at times"

    That is a bit insulting, No?

    Don't get to frustrated though. You post some of the most thoughtful and helpful as well as intelligent threads here.

    I'd nominate you for MENSA!
  6. Hound dog

    Hound dog Nana's are Beautiful


    I think this lady was a dufus. Odds are.....she didn't recognize some of the medical terminology you were using. I'm serious. I do think you intimidated her.

    Money can still drive me crazy at times. And I have good days and bad days with words. Bad days and I can't think of what I want to say for anything. Drives me nuts. Good days......probably ranges in with others in our age group. But most of the time it happens out of the blue. Don't ask me something and expect an instant answer...unless it's OLD knowledge.

    Like tonight, instructor asked what paints I was using in my painting. Now I'd just mixed the darn paints. But what they were wouldn't come to my brain for anything. Good thing I had the names of the paints written on my pallet. sheesh He asked too fast and my brain went on shut down.

    Taking a test.........sweety I can do fine. I know I'm taking it. Spring a pop quiz on me and watch me flunk it, even if I know the material. My brain shuts down. poof! Sometimes I can manage to pass if I force myself to sit there and let it come to me. This can take up to 15 mins.......sometimes it just doesn't.

    And I've had 5 yrs to improve, with school forcing me to get better.

    Travis' first neuropsychologist testing was waaaay off the mark. The only thing the guy picked up on was his tics. Second one we got was MUCH better, and they pin pointed just about all the problem areas he had, while noting that several others might be displayed more severely in the real world.

    I'm thinking if you can get it, a 2nd opinion would do you much more good than this one.

  7. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Oh I wont be doing this to myself again. I really dont have any need to do it again. It was done more to answer questions for myself as to where my problems lie and where I have declined. Obviously I am not going to get my answers from tests given by a professional that doesnt know me and I dont know any neuropsychs as I have come to the conclusion that maybe having this one done at a brain injury trauma rehab may not have been the best choice...given that she probably doesnt see many so called normal people. Not that I am normal but I am not where I was last fall. And even then I was one of the less "involved" brain injured. Mine was more physical.
  8. Hound dog

    Hound dog Nana's are Beautiful

    I think you're right there. Also with what parts of the brain were damaged. You can have more subtle congnitive issues ect, yet be effected more on a physical level. Depends on where the damaged areas are, and how bad.

    My injury was in the visual area and the frontal. Impact in the back of the head...brain got slammed into the frontal bone. My visual interpretation has been effected from the beginning. As well as all the other junk. But I had no physical issues as that part wasn't damaged. Doesn't even mean the damage was any "less" just in different areas.

    I had a hard time grasping this one way back with Travis. Until I found a neuro that took the time to actually explain it well. Travis' brain damage is minor in the physical dept.......but major in all other areas. He does have physical issues. An untrained eye won't spot them though.

    The brain is such a complicated organ. They've learned so much, but still know very little.
  9. DDD

    DDD Well-Known Member

    Just reading your post it makes me think of easy child/difficult child. If what I write doesn't sound right...remember I'm in the midst of a "bug" attack so I may not be as tactful as usual. ;)


    I think that people with high or gifted IQ levels don't cope well with being "normal range". After a lifetime of knowing (actually quickly knowing) what's going on, to be "slowed" to a standard pace seems to be radically below perceived norm. There is an alteration of "self" that doesn't result in an aggresive plan of help.

    easy child/difficult child is now "normal" or maybe "a little below normal". He can not accept that he is no longer the sharpest pin in the pack. He evidently is not going to get disability because he is too close to normal. He does not feel adequate to compete in the workforce and hangs out with people who are slower than his old friends.

    That may not be what you feel.........but it is what he feels and I am really sorry that both of you are altered. on the other hand you guys are smarter than most and I am hopeful for your futures. DDD
  10. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    DDD...exactly! She kept telling me that I did the tests correctly but that I had this "processing deficit" thing that she couldnt quite figure out. She wants to attribute it to test anxiety. I never in my life had test anxiety! I took a test for being an Air Traffic Control operator one time and thought it was an aptitude test. Got there and found out it was for people who had either worked in the Air Force or had flown planes! I was neither of those. I took the test anyway and passed it with a score high enough to be considered for hire!

    I do well on standardized tests. Always have and so do all my kids.

    People also have built in ideas about what I can do now based on what I have always been able to do...and based on this testing one would think I could still do it. According to this testing I should still be able to pay the bills, remember things, do the taxes, learn something, remember where I put the mail...even go to work. Oh hell no. I cant even be relied on to accurately count money anymore. I consistently miscount twenty dollar bills when I try to put them up to save them. I will count a pile of money and I am always off by at least 80 to 120. If I try to count backwards to figure out how much I should have left...I get lost. I constantly forget bill dates. And the taxes...omg...I cant even attempt them anymore. And I ran the VITA table when I was in school. I singlehandedly did all the business accounts and my school...a small technical college beat Clemson University that year. And this neuropsychologist wanted to say I only started with a foot. I know where I started....and if I am gonna drop 10 points a decade...omg. If people on average drop 10 points a decade starting in their 30s...well... we are going to have people walking around with IQs of 40 and 50 or lower when they hit 60 or 70! That is just plain stupid.
  11. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    Oh, how frustrating, Janet.
    It doesn't look like the test was very useful at all.
    How do you decide how much effort to put into retraining yourself in thinking patterns (for example, finding a new way to count money), and when to cut yourself some slack?
    Or is that why you took the tests to begin with?
    I wish I had some magical advice.
  12. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Terry...I think that is the magic question. I hardly ever use cash anymore because I just cant do it. I either give the wrong amount and hope the cashier is honest or I just grab what they give me back as change and hope for the best. Normally I just use my debit card.

    Right now I am in a situation with Social Security/Medicare/Medicaid for Cory. It is very complicated and I am having to go from talking to each one of these huge governmental red tape agencies to the other over some snafu that has happened. I just want to scream at them to fix the problem they created because I dont have a clue how to do it. Just ten years ago I could have done And really...somewhere in my brain...the answer is there trying to get out! So I sound somewhat semi-intelligent about what we are talking about because this whole arena used to be my job.
  13. Hound dog

    Hound dog Nana's are Beautiful

    Janet, that was me for at least 3 yrs or so after the accident. I'm better now......not a whole lot though. Bills can still overwhelm me. Which I find interesting because so far homework doesn't that much. But then for classes I have a syllabus that I can look at each day and know what's due too. :tongue: But hey, at least I can usually hand a cashier the right amount. lol But I don't dare handle the money for the yard sale........let's just say it's really embarrassing and leave it at that. :rofl:

    Of course just 3 yrs ago I couldn't remember anything for more than 5 mins tops. My short term memory was in the toilet. That was frustrating as hades. And I still don't remember Darrin's babyhood.......and um......Aubrey's is also gone. (just realized that as I was typing) D*mn. I remember Kayla's like it was yesterday.......but her's was before the accident.

    My sister thinks I'm crazy to attempt nursing school. Well, there are times when I really do worry about it. But most of that is old knowledge for me. So I'm hoping, and praying, that I'll manage just fine.

    DDD I think you hit the nail square on the head. I was no genius, but stuff did come fast to me once upon a time. And tests?? OMG I always did good on tests. Now I know in some ways, maybe many ways, I'm below normal. So I see the difference and to me it's huge. But to someone who doesn't know me.........they don't notice it much if at all.:faint:
  14. flutterby

    flutterby Fly away!

    That is so true. My Full Scale IQ with my neuropsychologist evaluation was 115, which is still high-average (according to the report). My Verbal IQ (judgment, reasoning, data manipulation) was 133 - in the 99th percentile, while my Performance IQ (distractibility, attention, short term memory) was 94 - in the 34th percentile. He said based on my testings and responses, I probably used to be around 135-140 Full Scale IQ.

    So, while others don't see an issue, it took me a really long time to adjust. When this really started to become a problem, I said that I felt stupid. I was really embarrassed. I have adjusted, but it is frustrating that I can't do what I used to be able to do. And because of my Perfomance IQ I have limitations. For example, he said I need a job that doesn't have deadlines. *blink* Is there such a thing? And he said I need a job in a similar field because it will take me too long to learn something new. I worked in accounting. There are deadlines. Sigh....

    And when the fatigue and/or pain is really bad, my brain feels like swiss cheese. I can't remember anything, can't find my words and lose my train of thought mid-sentence. If I'm lucky, I get it back again. More often than not, it's just gone. And don't ask me to do math.
  15. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    Oh, I meant to comment on that too. It is SO true!
    How terribly frustrating.
  16. Star*

    Star* call 911


    Take this for what it's worth. EVERYONE learns differently. I sometimes have difficulty explaining things I do because I don't learn or perceive things like other people. It doesn't make you or I stupid - it makes us unique.

    The sad thing about how you learn is that NO ONE EVER in our generation ever said "Oh honey it's okay if you don't get this equation - I'll teach you differently." Nope - we got a big red F on the paper and then the other kids saw the F and all of a sudden? You're an idiot.

    So here's what I think about that womans test. It seems she had ONE way to test you for things. Not once did I even see her ask "Do you know what your learning style is?"

    She could have read the papers to you, she could have put them on tape, she could have put them in written form, but there was one way in and one way out of her test and if that isn't how you learn? You get sub par scores. ACCORDING to her test.

    I think it would be VERY interesting to ask her why she didn't ask you what your learning style was and help you to pass things from that perspective. Not asking you how you learn to me makes the test a sort of misnomer. Know what I mean??

    I'm a dual learner - by the way. Maybe you should ask her if she could give you the tests again in a way that you learn best and see (FOR SCIENTIFIC SAKE) what your scores are then.

    THAT would be interesting.

    I always tell my son - ANY monkey can get the plastic prize out of the LUcky Charms by just sticking your hand in everyones cereal....but how would you get the prize out if you couldn't touch the cereal and could only pour 1/2 a cup at a time into a bowl that was 1/4 cup.

    Something to give your neuropsychologist to think about.
  17. DDD

    DDD Well-Known Member

    But Star......does it really matter in the long run. The issue doesn't seem to be how high you score. The issue seems to be how you feel about your now lower score. That is not the tester. That is an issue for the testee, in my humble opinion. DDD
  18. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Well I have come to the conclusion...with the help of my therapist (god love her) that if I just look at the actual results and not the added commentary that this is helpful.

    I have learned that there has been some decline and I was expecting that. I was expecting cognitive decline both from the meningitis and from the actual neurological changes due to bipolar. I learned that I have some definite processing problems in the Executive Function department. I learned my visual memory is pretty darned bad.

    I also learned that I can intimidate Obviously she felt a bit threatened by my use of diagnostic terms and felt the need to "put me in my place." Oh well. Since she isnt part of my clinical team that doesnt mean much.